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Greg Cossell Talks NFL Draft

I really respect Cosell. He always seems to be on target. One of the only analysts who's opinions are important to me.

He seems to see things the same way I do regarding the Texans supposed top choices this year.

Manziel will make great plays with his improvisational skills, but can you survive the plays that will happen between the great ones? Makes more plays from the pocket than he is given credit for, but is not a timing passer and does not anticipate windows.

Bortles has solid tools to work with, but will need some time to work it out.

Bridgewater is a cerebral passer who doesn't wow you. Doesn't have a cannon but has a NFL arm. Size is really his only concern.

Clowney is the most athletically gifted player in the draft. Doesn't have the bend that a natural pass rusher has and needs to get better with his hands.
 
bah007 said:
I really respect Cosell. He always seems to be on target. One of the only analysts who's opinions are important to me...
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I agree, his thoughts are his thoughts based on his own work. One of the best.

Cosell was more charitable on Manziel/Bortles today than he was ~3 weeks ago.

I just can't see keeping 1-1 and not taking Clowney at this point. If Clowney does what we expect him to do at the Combine I think there will be teams salivating to trade up.
 
Playoffs said:
I agree, his thoughts are his thoughts based on his own work. One of the best.

Cosell was more charitable on Manziel/Bortles today than he was ~3 weeks ago.

I just can't see keeping 1-1 and not taking Clowney at this point. If Clowney does what we expect him to do at the Combine I think there will be teams salivating to trade up.
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I really agree with this take of Manziel even more. I'm not doubting his arm or his athletic ability. He obviously has both in spades.

He's too reliant on his legs as his primary weapon and he doesn't play within the confines of his offense. He is off schedule far too much for my liking. I don't think backyard football will work in the NFL. He is too mentally raw to come in and immediately be the guy. He's too risky for me. I understand why people are enamored with him but I'd rather let another team deal with his issues.

I don't care what Clowney does at the combine as far as the Texans are concerned. I do hope he destroys it though so we can move back a few spots and grab some extra picks. I don't want him here. If we're forced to stay at #1 then give me Bridgewater.
 
Thats tough to hear from a well respected NFL talent evaluator.

Although I respect his opinion, the notion that these QBs will not warrant a top 10 pick in May seems a little crazy. I feel that at least 2 will go in the top 10. But I guess we will see in May.
 
Blake said:
Thats tough to hear from a well respected NFL talent evaluator.

Although I respect his opinion, the notion that these QBs will not warrant a top 10 pick in May seems a little crazy. I feel that at least 2 will go in the top 10. But I guess we will see in May.
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I don't think he means they won't go top 10. He just means that he thinks they aren't among the ten best players in the draft, so if they go top ten it is only because they are QBs.
 
bah007 said:
I don't think he means they won't go top 10. He just means that he thinks they aren't among the ten best players in the draft, so if they go top ten it is only because they are QBs.
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Thats the problem with using the word warrant. It feels open to interpretation. If he thinks these players will go in the top 10 how do they not "warrant" a top 10 selection?

We all know that the draft takes into account a players position. Now if Cossell wants to say that these QB's are not the top 10 players in the draft that is one thing. But he said they do not warrant a top 10 pick. Totally another thing.
 
bah007 said:
I don't think he means they won't go top 10. He just means that he thinks they aren't among the ten best players in the draft, so if they go top ten it is only because they are QBs.
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^This.

He means not in top 10 best football players. If you listen to the podcast, he talks about the dangers of reaching -- especially for QBs -- and how that can set back a franchise.
 
Playoffs said:
^This.

He means not in top 10 best football players. If you listen to the podcast, he talks about the dangers of reaching -- especially for QBs -- and how that can set back a franchise.
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If you don't reach for a QB you will probably never draft one. Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, John Elway, those guys that are legit 1.01 aren't found very often.

Panthers look OK with Cam at the helm so far and he was listed outside of the top 10 on almost everyone's board the year he came out.
 
TexansFTW said:
If you don't reach for a QB you will probably never draft one. Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, John Elway, those guys that are legit 1.01 aren't found very often.

Panthers look OK with Cam at the helm so far and he was listed outside of the top 10 on almost everyone's board the year he came out.
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This. I respect Cossell but that doesn't mean I have to agree with all of his takes either. Also, I think the case of picking a QB too high for what he actually brings to the table and that pick setting back a franchise are overblown. It's only a huge multi-year setback if your coaches continue to march out that QB when it's completely obvious that he sucks (blaine gabbert).
 
With the new rookie wage scale, a 1st round QB busting doesn't carry the same ramifications anymore. It still puts your team in a hole because they have to address the issue, but the cap issues do not come along with it like they used to.
 
WolverineFan said:
With the new rookie wage scale, a 1st round QB busting doesn't carry the same ramifications anymore. It still puts your team in a hole because they have to address the issue, but the cap issues do not come along with it like they used to.
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Yes but it still sets you back ~3 years if you select Gabbert/Ponder/Locker.

So whoever drafts him better know himself & his stuff. In OB I trust.

Cosell's point stands. Not new. And at the time he said Newton had all of the tools: arm, athleticism, and pocket QB. He was just inexperienced and, for me he acted a little strange at times. None of these top 3 QBs have Cam's arm, size, and athleticism.
 
WolverineFan said:
With the new rookie wage scale, a 1st round QB busting doesn't carry the same ramifications anymore. It still puts your team in a hole because they have to address the issue, but the cap issues do not come along with it like they used to.
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I was just about to say this.
 
bah007 said:
He's too reliant on his legs as his primary weapon and he doesn't play within the confines of his offense. He is off schedule far too much for my liking. I don't think backyard football will work in the NFL. He is too mentally raw to come in and immediately be the guy. He's too risky for me. I understand why people are enamored with him but I'd rather let another team deal with his issues.
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Manziel is much better at it than Keenum. & Keenum didn't do as much of it in college, but this is exactly what I thought about Keenum in the preseason. He "looked good" but didn't produce within the system. More adlibing than I'd like to see in the preseason.

When we got to the regular season, it's too late to try to teach this stuff, so you've got to do what you've got to do, but preseason isn't the time to be playing sandlot football. I need to see how much of my plan you're going to be able to implement.

Same thing with Ryan Mallet. I don't care how many completions he's got, TDs, INTs.... more than likely that's a scrub you're throwing to, a scrub protecting your blindside, & a scrub picking up the blitz.

However.... What Manziel does, he does it naturally, effortlessly... it's second nature. His instincts are off the chart. Like a young Michael Vick, you don't want to control it too much. There's only one way for him to learn & that's on the field. You've got to be willing to take your lumps if you're going to take the chance that he can be special at the next level.
 
bah007 said:
I don't think he means they won't go top 10. He just means that he thinks they aren't among the ten best players in the draft, so if they go top ten it is only because they are QBs.
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We won't know that 'till after the pro days & combine. All we know is as a QB prospect they do not grade out close to Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers... for one reason or another, they are too far away to merit a top 5 pick (because even the 5th best QB is better than the most talented player to a team looking for a franchise QB right?)

Luck, Manning, Rivers...... grade like 99 out of 100. These guys are 93-94s.

When the pro-days & combine are over, we'll have a better idea if there are 10 players better or not.
 
TexansFTW said:
If you don't reach for a QB you will probably never draft one. Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, John Elway, those guys that are legit 1.01 aren't found very often.
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None of those guys were reaches. They all warranted the #1 overall selection & in the case of Manning & Elway..... They were everything they were thought to be.

TexansFTW said:
Panthers look OK with Cam at the helm so far and he was listed outside of the top 10 on almost everyone's board the year he came out.
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Cam was a reach, Stafford was a reach, Young & J.Russell were reaches. Vick was a reach... Cutler, Lienart, Quinn, Dalton, Kaepernick weren't.

Sometimes you've got to take chances. This draft may be one of them. I don't argue that Bridgewater, Manziel, or Bortles may very well be the best QBs in this draft.... But they're not going to be there at 33 & most likely won't be there where their talent (relative to the field) slots them.

But with a draft this deep in QBs....... QBs with the right size, played in "pro-ish" offenses, played against the best competition, & produced at a high level. They're smart, they're driven, they study their opponents, they're leaders, they're competitive, they're athletic, they're accurate, they've all got potential.... why take chances?

Trust your board.
 
...when he says Sammy Watkins could be the best receiving prospect since A.J. Green and Julio Jones, it's something that will catch your attention.
...
"There's no debate here," Greg Cosell said. "I think Sammy Watkins, based on what I've seen, is the best wide receiver in this draft."

Cosell went on to say Watkins is the best since that 2010 draft when Green and Jones were taken in the first round.

Watkins is a different type of receiver than Green and Jones. He's just 6-1 and 205 pounds, compared to the tall frames the other two have. But Watkins is an explosive playmaker when he has the ball in his hands.
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http://www.nationalfootballpost.com...t-WR-prospect-since-AJ-Green-Julio-Jones.html
 
what i still don't understand is the size business. as long as the guy isn't 5.8 then why should it matter. If TB was 6.4 230lbs he would be consensus number 1 but because his slightly smaller than ideal and a little skinny his not a top 10 player.

i just don't understand this logic
 
aussie_texan said:
what i still don't understand is the size business. as long as the guy isn't 5.8 then why should it matter. If TB was 6.4 230lbs he would be consensus number 1 but because his slightly smaller than ideal and a little skinny his not a top 10 player.

i just don't understand this logic
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It's not just his size. If he had the same career he had this past season playing in a major conference, he'd be the consensus #1. If he's really 6'3" which I think he is.

If he had a cannon for an arm he'd be the consensus #1.

But as it is, his strengths & weaknesses are comparable to the other guys considered first round picks. Bortles has the size, Manziel played well against tough competition, neither played in a "pro" system. If Mettenberger didn't get hurt, he'd have the size, the competition, the arm, but he wouldn't have the prolific stats the others have nor the athleticism.

That's also why I think McCarron is the best prospect of all the QBs in this class. He's got everything minus the athleticism.
 
aussie_texan said:
what i still don't understand is the size business. as long as the guy isn't 5.8 then why should it matter. If TB was 6.4 230lbs he would be consensus number 1 but because his slightly smaller than ideal and a little skinny his not a top 10 player.

i just don't understand this logic
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I don't understand a lot of the logic that goes on in this process and I am right there with you. I think a lot of people passed on ARod (including us) because he was barely 6'2". I bet most of those teams hate themselves now.

Protypical in an ever changing game does not equal sustained success.
 
TexansFTW said:
I don't understand a lot of the logic that goes on in this process and I am right there with you. I think a lot of people passed on ARod (including us) because he was barely 6'2". I bet most of those teams hate themselves now.

Protypical in an ever changing game does not equal sustained success.
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The teams that passed on Rodgers did more so because they thought Aaron was a Tedford system QB. Up until then Tedford QBs had a history of disappointment. In addition, Rodger's playing at a Jr College created more doubt about his future. At the time 6'2" is not really a detriment for an NFL QB.
 
real guru. no QB warrants a top 10 pick. my question, is this statement predicated on how this prospect class stacks or in general terms year in year out each draft class? I can buy argument that Blake (elite size) & Manziel (elite movement skills) ultimate grade will be out of top 10 but not Bridgewater. :pinned:
 
Cossell was on The Herd today. A few highlights:

Thinks Bridgweater is a smart football player that will have question marks on size.

Bortles is a "future guy" that has size and strength.

Manziel seems to run around unnecessarily and consistently misses reads and doesn't pull the trigger.

Watkins is best WR prospect since Julio and AJ Green came out.

Donte Moncrief(sp?), WR from Ole Miss, is a nice underrated receiver.
 
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TexansSeminole said:
Cossell was on The Herd today. A few highlights:

Donte Moncrief(sp?), WR from Ole Miss, is a nice underrated receiver.
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Good to see this guy getting some recognition. I would be forced to pull the trigger on this guy if he was available in the 4th.
 
Cossell is my guy. He's better to me than all of the draftniks. I agree with him and I disagree too,that's what make it fun.

In regards to his comment on watkins,I don't see the big deal. Watkins is more similar to percy harvin than julio or aj. Even those guys are still developing also. Aj green don't seem interestested in inside seam routes and julio has the drops. Watkins never consistently really ran routes and beat guys. Yes he can do the jet sweep and the go routes,but can he consistently get open vs press man and sell his route? He's explosive,but if I had my choice, I would take Evans over him.

I agree with his takes on the qbs for the most part and again, the bendable part about clowney is a little concerning also.
 
Big fan of Moncrief. I have a 3rd round grade on him. I think he's underrated.

Watkins to me is a slightly more explosive Victor Cruz. I think he'll do very well.

Evans is strikingly similar to Jonathan Baldwin.
 
bah007 said:
Big fan of Moncrief. I have a 3rd round grade on him. I think he's underrated.

Watkins to me is a slightly more explosive Victor Cruz. I think he'll do very well.
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Moncrief in the 3rd RD makes perfectly good sense for the Texans. Especially from a standpoint of Moncrief becoming AJ's successor. Two years in the system learning behind AJ before assuming the role. Perfect.
 
Texian said:
Moncrief in the 3rd RD makes perfectly good sense for the Texans. Especially from a standpoint of Moncrief becoming AJ's successor. Two years in the system learning behind AJ before assuming the role. Perfect.
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With all our needs I'm not too keen on taking a WR early but if it's Moncrief I would not hate it. He actually has a little bit of AJ in him I think. Not quite the talent level but very similar skill set.
 
bah007 said:
With all our needs I'm not too keen on taking a WR early but if it's Moncrief I would not hate it. He actually has a little bit of AJ in him I think. Not quite the talent level but very similar skill set.
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The key here is understanding you're never going to replace AJ. Comparing another future WR to AJ is only a hindrance. Coming close to to replacing AJs production is a move in the right direction. I agree, Moncrief would be such a move.
 
I want van noy on the texans. I think he's going to be a stud. A beast. He and jj watt on the same field would be sick. Both of those guys play with all out effort.

Van noy plays like he had dynamite in his shoes.

He's is the best defensive player I've personally seen in this draft.
 
Texian said:
Moncrief in the 3rd RD makes perfectly good sense for the Texans. Especially from a standpoint of Moncrief becoming AJ's successor. Two years in the system learning behind AJ before assuming the role. Perfect.
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bah007 said:
With all our needs I'm not too keen on taking a WR early but if it's Moncrief I would not hate it. He actually has a little bit of AJ in him I think. Not quite the talent level but very similar skill set.
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I agree with bah to an extent. We have severe needs at TE, OL, LB, FS, QB and even RB. Moncrief at the top of the 4th would be a great way to spend that pick. Our WRs are currently a good group IMO.
 
Playoffs said:
^This. Hate that it's the same as his brother, but that is the problem.
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^This. But most all rookies, including those that seemed to have "it" under control in college, show significant difficulties in adjusting to NFL pressure. Heck, look what happened to Peyton when he lost his protection. A very strong argument for us to not lose sight of fixing our OL.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
^This. But most all rookies, including those that seemed to have "it" under control in college, show significant difficulties in adjusting to NFL pressure. Heck, look what happened to Peyton when he lost his protection. A very strong argument for us to not lose sight of fixing our OL.
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I'm not sure composure is a learnt skill. A guy with good composure may get rattled as a rookie and recover it, but if you've never had it I don't think t can be learnt.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
^This. But most all rookies, including those that seemed to have "it" under control in college, show significant difficulties in adjusting to NFL pressure...
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There's a difference. Everyone has trouble with NFL pressure, but not everyone is afraid in it/of it. Gabbert's fear kills his production. Top 3 QBs in this draft don't show fear of the pressure. It's sounding like Carr might. Carr has the better arm compared to the Top 3, but things get funky when his pocket gets messy.
 
Playoffs said:
There's a difference. Everyone has trouble with NFL pressure, but not everyone is afraid in it/of it. Gabbert's fear kills his production. Top 3 QBs in this draft don't show fear of the pressure. It's sounding like Carr might. Carr has the better arm compared to the Top 3, but things get funky when his pocket gets messy.
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just wait until they measure those little paws of his.... Derek Carr mannerisms, failure to connect/relate with teammates, the lofty yet meaningless numbers & well crafted throwing motion. give me Johnny Football all day & all night #1 rather than trade back into the first round to grab this mirror of his older sibling. :hankpalm:
 
beerlover said:
just wait until they measure those little paws of his....
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Already did: 6'2 1/8 -- 215 -- 9 1/8 -- 31 2/8 -- 75 1/8.

The worry is Bridgewater, who might be 6'1" -- 195 -- 8 6/8...? [IMGwidthsize=26]http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/nervous/afraid.gif[/IMG]
 
Playoffs said:
Already did: 6'2 1/8 -- 215 -- 9 1/8 -- 31 2/8 -- 75 1/8.

The worry is Bridgewater, who might be 6'1" -- 195 -- 8 6/8...? [IMGwidthsize=26]http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/nervous/afraid.gif[/IMG]
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David hand size is reportedly 9 3/4" good inch taller, stronger & faster, lets not forget how well that worked out for him here. ty :fostering:
 
beerlover said:
David hand size is reportedly 9 3/4" good inch taller, stronger & faster, lets not forget how well that worked out for him here. ty :fostering:
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Man Carr played his ass off for this organization. He was put in a bad situation from the start. Had he gone to another/better team I'm not so sure he would of had as bad a career as he did.
 
mussop said:
Man Carr played his ass off for this organization. He was put in a bad situation from the start. Had he gone to another/better team I'm not so sure he would of had as bad a career as he did.
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not to change subjects but who is your, top rated prospect in this draft?
 
beerlover said:
not to change subjects but who is your, top rated prospect in this draft?
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I've been torn between Manziel,Bridgewater and Clowney pretty much since there was a hint we might end up with the first pick. Have said many times that I'm not going to fall I'm love with any one player. I don't need more disappointment from this team. I don't want to go into next year with the with an pissed off attitude because they didn't pick "my guy".

I can see 6 different players that I could make a case for picking. Maybe more after the combine!?!? I'll be happy with any of them. If they go outside that I'll adjust. I plan on enjoying the season next year. Something I haven't done in a while. Even when we were making the playoffs I knew we didn't have the right coach to win it all. I knew it for the last 6 years.
 
mussop said:
I've been torn between Manziel,Bridgewater and Clowney pretty much since there was a hint we might end up with the first pick. Have said many times that I'm not going to fall I'm love with any one player. I don't need more disappointment from this team. I don't want to go into next year with the with an pissed off attitude because they didn't pick "my guy".

I can see 6 different players that I could make a case for picking. Maybe more after the combine!?!? I'll be happy with any of them. If they go outside that I'll adjust. I plan on enjoying the season next year. Something I haven't done in a while. Even when we were making the playoffs I knew we didn't have the right coach to win it all. I knew it for the last 6 years.
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fair.

what are your thoughts on Greg Robinson. I realize he is only a red shirt sophomore, but his raw power/size combo along with his rapid grasp in pass pro suggest he is not just the top OT in his class but better than last years #1 overall pick Eric Fisher & thought he acquitted himself nicely his rookie season for the Chiefs and could be argued helped turn the worst team into a legitimate playoff team by protecting Alex Smith & clearing holes for Charles & Co. if Clowney stumbles, for whatever reason @ Indy, post combine Greg Robinson stock could surpass the grade Fisher received.

in regards to the QB's I'm right with you. really love Bridgewater, maybe too much, not sure if I want to see him face the scrutiny he would get coming in as savior of the franchise. would rather see that befall Manziel for that reason alone, nothing to do with skill set per say but his skill set to handle pressure situations which he thrives on. Bortles would be a luxury pick if we already had us a QB, don't think Texan fans have anymore patience for that right now, need instant gratification.
 
Blake said:
Good to see this guy (Moncrief) getting some recognition. I would be forced to pull the trigger on this guy if he was available in the 4th.
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Me too. I found this guy last week and in my trade down mock I have him slotted in at 3-71. After the combine I see him possibly moving up into the 2nd round.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
It's too bad that the David Carr experience (with his father baggage) has made his brother a non-consideration......he does have an arm.

DEREK CARR HIGHLIGHTS
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The big question mark in my mind is that he's a Morman. Not a knock on religion, but football is often secondary. Family always come first. D.C. was not a "film room junkie". He put in his required hours with the team and then he went home to be with his family. To be elite, you have to be dedicated to the sport. What this means is that wife/family has to be supportive in this. I'm not personally certain how this works out for those of the Morman faith.
 
Number19 said:
The big question mark in my mind is that he's a Morman. Not a knock on religion, but football is often secondary. Family always come first. D.C. was not a "film room junkie". He put in his required hours with the team and then he went home to be with his family. To be elite, you have to be dedicated to the sport. What this means is that wife/family has to be supportive in this. I'm not personally certain how this works out for those of the Morman faith.
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Where do you get Mormon and why is that any different than other Christians? Actually the particular faith is irrelevant it is that the Carr family puts faith first.
 
infantrycak said:
Where do you get Mormon and why is that any different than other Christians? Actually the particular faith is irrelevant it is that the Carr family puts faith first.
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You're right. Whip me with a wet noodle. Somehow I've had it in my head for year's that the Carr family were Mormans. They are Pentecostals.

Still, back to my basic premise, he states that his "priorities are faith, family, and then football".
 
Number19 said:
The big question mark in my mind is that he's a Morman. Not a knock on religion, but football is often secondary. Family always come first.
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Wasn't/isn't Steve Young a Mormon? Didn't stop him from succeeding in the NFL. Roger Staubach was also very religious. Can you play? That's the real criteria. And despite David Carr's positive attributes (arm, athleticism), his lack of vision impeding him from becoming a successful QB. I don't think God had anything to do with that.
 
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