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#1 Pick and the SuperBowl

kingtexan

kingtexan

All Pro
How does today's game effect how we pick in the draft?

I offer this ...

If Denver wins, we draft Clowney and grab a QB in the second ... or trade out if he doesn't interview well.

If Seattle wins, we draft Johnny F'in Football.

I will go on record and stick to this prediction barring injury to one of these players.
 
matts290 said:
The Super Bowl literally has zero effect on what we do with our #1 pick...
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So if a QB like Wilson goes out there and wins MVP and shows that size isn't as important as skill, then we don't look closer at JFF? We don't think a little differently about the height prototype that exists in the NFL? Hmm ...
 
kingtexan said:
So if a QB like Wilson goes out there and wins MVP and shows that size isn't as important as skill, then we don't look closer at JFF? We don't think a little differently about the height prototype that exists in the NFL? Hmm ...
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So if Peyton Manning wins does that mean we take Bortles or Mettenberger because they are the two prototypical size QBs? No, because who wins the Super Bowl has no correlation with who the worst team in the NFL takes at #1.

A short QB has already won a SB, Wilson winning it will not make Bill O'Brien and Rick Smith go "Welp, that does it, I guess we have to take Manziel now because the guy that won the SB and MVP is also short like Johnny..." Come on, use a little better logic that this.
 
matts290 said:
So if Peyton Manning wins does that mean we take Bortles or Mettenberger because they are the two prototypical size QBs? No, because who wins the Super Bowl has no correlation with who the worst team in the NFL takes at #1.

A short QB has already won a SB, Wilson winning it will not make Bill O'Brien and Rick Smith go "Welp, that does it, I guess we have to take Manziel now because the guy that won the SB and MVP is also short like Johnny..." Come on, use a little better logic that this.
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If Peyton kills the Hawks, then maybe O'Brien stays with his preference for big, pocket passing QB's. Maybe Bortles if the is there in the second, most likely Carr, Mettenberger, or whoever he feels has the most potential and falls to the first pick of the second round. Especially if Clowney is the real deal.

If Wilson lights it up, he has to give serious consideration to drafting Manziel BECAUSE of Brees winning before and now Wilson, it kills the stereotype.

Logic tells you that you have to adjust to compete with what has become an ever changing league. Wade has proven that the last few years by staying with what got them here, and worked great in the 90's, but doesn't work anymore. QB's like Wilson could be the future, or maybe Brees was one of a kind ...
 
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Ok so what if Wilson doesn't have a good game but Seattle wins because of their defense? Do we draft a defensive player first?

What if Broncos win because Holliday runs back a kick return for the final score, do we draft the best kick/punt returner?

What it Sherman picks off Manning 3 times, well CBs must win Super Bowls so lets take Dennard first overall!

Demaryius Thomas dominates the game and takes two screens to the house, so let's draft Sammy Watkins?

Do you get my point here? Just because a certain player performs well in the biggest game of the year, doesn't mean we have to draft the player that most resembles them. We draft the best player we can who US win, not Bortles because he is tall like Manning, or Manziel because he is short like Wilson...that makes zero sense
 
I respect where you're coming from with your logic King, but I don't believe it's going to have any bearing on the decision we make.

This is going to be a good game though, #1 vs #1.
 
The Texans don't have a QB. The Texans will draft a QB with their first pick regardless of the outcome of Super Bowl 48.
 
Texian said:
The Texans don't have a QB. The Texans will draft a QB with their first pick regardless of the outcome of Super Bowl 48.
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Ignorant if they think that way. Doesn't matter that they don't have a QB, if there is no QB worth the #1 pick you don't take a QB. You take a player worth #1.
 
matts290 said:
Ok so what if Wilson doesn't have a good game but Seattle wins because of their defense? Do we draft a defensive player first?

What if Broncos win because Holliday runs back a kick return for the final score, do we draft the best kick/punt returner?

What it Sherman picks off Manning 3 times, well CBs must win Super Bowls so lets take Dennard first overall!

Demaryius Thomas dominates the game and takes two screens to the house, so let's draft Sammy Watkins?

Do you get my point here? Just because a certain player performs well in the biggest game of the year, doesn't mean we have to draft the player that most resembles them. We draft the best player we can who US win, not Bortles because he is tall like Manning, or Manziel because he is short like Wilson...that makes zero sense
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Guess you cant comprehend what I was asking.

Has nothing to do with anything other than our #1 pick, and the only two players that may justify it.
 
kingtexan said:
Ignorant if they think that way. Doesn't matter that they don't have a QB, if there is no QB worth the #1 pick you don't take a QB. You take a player worth #1.
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I mostly agree with you, but I feel like there are 20 players who should be taken between 10 and 20 rather than 10 in the first ten and 10 in the second ten. I'd trade down, but someone else has to disagree with my assessment to find a trade partner.
 
Those guys are out watching every game of the season, preseason and about the 25 seasons before that. One game won`t change that. Brees and Wilson have already proven, that you can be short and still a great, winning QB. But that won`t be the prototypical QB going forward.

The question marks around Johnny Football aren`t all around his short statue. Injury concern, too much improvisation, the question how that will translate to the NFL and his character are probably more reasons for him not getting drafted #1.

They will do their due diligence in scouting these guys - and then they will take the player, that will help this team the most. I also think this will be a QB, but while Johnny Football is very intriguing, I am more for Bridgewater (also a rather short QB - with Manning-like football IQ).

So, no, I don`t think the superbowl alone will have any impact on our pick. But the success of Wilson and Brees will lead to us at least looking at guys like Manziel (and maybe Bridgewater if he ends up being 6f rather than 6´2).
 
kingtexan said:
How does today's game effect how we pick in the draft?

I offer this ...

If Denver wins, we draft Clowney and grab a QB in the second ... or trade out if he doesn't interview well.

If Seattle wins, we draft Johnny F'in Football.

I will go on record and stick to this prediction barring injury to one of these players.
Click to expand...

Not that it matters but if Seattle were to win I think it proves you don't have to have a great QB to win. A top defense CAN still win the big one. So if this really mattered and Seattle wins we would draft Clowmey.

If Denver wins we would draft a QB. Again it doesn't matter just think your fictionary logic is backwards.
 
kingtexan said:
So if a QB like Wilson goes out there and wins MVP and shows that size isn't as important as skill, then we don't look closer at JFF? We don't think a little differently about the height prototype that exists in the NFL? Hmm ...
Click to expand...

It's not that size is/isn't important. It's one more thing that the player will have to overcome to be successful in the NFL. Whether he is Drew Brees, Doug Flutie, or Johnny Football, if he's short that's one more thing he has to deal with that a prototypical QB does not.

It's effortless for some of these guys, I'm sure they don't think about it. But there's a reason the average height of an NFL QB is not 5'9"
 
JCTexan said:
And which third round QB reminds you of Russell Wilson? It sure as hell isn't Mccarron or Mettenberger.
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Keith Price, Washington Huskies, 6100 202 4th rd. grade

Since he is already very familiar to Seattle & Hawks I would expect them to target Price to be Russel Wilson's back-up. Fits scheme, no changes to offense should polish up in system.
 
thunderkyss said:
The other TB with some hair relaxer
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Tajh Boyd might not even get drafted.

beerlover said:
Keith Price, Washington Huskies, 6100 202 4th rd. grade

Since he is already very familiar to Seattle & Hawks I would expect them to target Price to be Russel Wilson's back-up. Fits scheme, no changes to offense should polish up in system.
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First time I've heard of him. CBS has him as their #20 ranked QB. He does seem to fit the mold of Russell Wilson (6'1 200 lbs).
 
JCTexan said:
Tajh Boyd might not even get drafted.



First time I've heard of him. CBS has him as their #20 ranked QB. He does seem to fit the mold of Russell Wilson (6'1 200 lbs).
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I believe in the 12th man as a concept. It affects all walks of life in NW especially aspiring QB playing for the Washington Huskies. Can't say for sure but remember watching him play last season & announcer mentioned there was correspondence between Price & Wilson in a mentoring capacity. He really flashes to me other times he tries to do too much, but if drafted into a system like Seattle he will be taught how to protect the ball & run a system tailor made for a smaller, yet athletic QB. This is going to sound funny, maybe, but feel Wilson is such a good passer because of his baseball background. His weight transfer, the way he sets his feet with same release point really improves his accuracy. He might try a shovel pass on occasion but basically its text book fastball pitches with killer change-up as he softly lobs into gaps with great anticipation where hitter is not expecting ball to arrive, catching them looking.

Yeah, CBS has him going undrafted. When asked who I think will rise with Wilson like characteristics based of Super Bowl performance/season (who could forget him here against Texans) Price would be a great sleeper pick. Also think he will measure slightly shorter than 6-1, probably 6-0 even, closer to 210 lbs but we'll see its been a couple months since last time I seen him play, but I would expect him to have been hitting the weight room with Russel Wilson as his model.
 
So you think this supebowl effects trends? Ok, the short qb is one concept but it's an after thought to defense, speed, and a big secondary...maybe even a hass rb. Wilson is a part here but he follows guys like flutie and Brees. Today I saw the greatest qb of my generation dismantled by a maniac defense. Let the bears, ravens, and now hawks take a bow. Despite all the rules they ruled the night. If you can't score, you can't win...show me something Romeo.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not that size is/isn't important. It's one more thing that the player will have to overcome to be successful in the NFL. Whether he is Drew Brees, Doug Flutie, or Johnny Football, if he's short that's one more thing he has to deal with that a prototypical QB does not.

It's effortless for some of these guys, I'm sure they don't think about it. But there's a reason the average height of an NFL QB is not 5'9"
Click to expand...

You could say the same thing about a goofy 6' 5" pocket passer - their lack of mobility is one thing that they have to overcome that a Manziel or Wilson does NOT. I don't look at it as being short, rather FAST, mobile, athletic, game changing SOOOOO long as they can make good throws from the pocket or on the run. This is the future of the league and success of the seahawks in the regular season, postseason/super bowl WILL influence future draft picks for sure. How many GMs are kicking themselves for not looking at RW.

To say it was just the Seahawk defense that won the rings is just plain ignorance.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not that size is/isn't important. It's one more thing that the player will have to overcome to be successful in the NFL. Whether he is Drew Brees, Doug Flutie, or Johnny Football, if he's short that's one more thing he has to deal with that a prototypical QB does not.

It's effortless for some of these guys, I'm sure they don't think about it. But there's a reason the average height of an NFL QB is not 5'9"
Click to expand...
Yeah, coaches and scouts can measure height and weight and 40 times and bench press numbers and even arm strength and maybe, to some extent, intelligence (if you believe in the worth of the Wunderlich test).

But they can't measure heart or will to win. That's why.
 
MEGA SWATT said:
You could say the same thing about a goofy 6' 5" pocket passer - their lack of mobility is one thing that they have to overcome that a Manziel or Wilson does NOT. I don't look at it as being short, rather FAST, mobile, athletic, game changing SOOOOO long as they can make good throws from the pocket or on the run. This is the future of the league and success of the seahawks in the regular season, postseason/super bowl WILL influence future draft picks for sure.
Click to expand...

Agreed to an extent. Mobility is another measure quantified at the combine. Roethlisberger, Luck, Newton have plus mobility & prototypical size.

It doesn't have to be one of the other.
 
MEGA SWATT said:
You could say the same thing about a goofy 6' 5" pocket passer - their lack of mobility is one thing that they have to overcome that a Manziel or Wilson does NOT. I don't look at it as being short, rather FAST, mobile, athletic, game changing SOOOOO long as they can make good throws from the pocket or on the run. This is the future of the league and success of the seahawks in the regular season, postseason/super bowl WILL influence future draft picks for sure. How many GMs are kicking themselves for not looking at RW.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am sure the NFL is just now considering these kinds of guys.

Signed,

Fran Tarkenton - 6' 190 lbs
Roger Staubach - 6'3" 197 lbs
 
MEGA SWATT said:
You could say the same thing about a goofy 6' 5" pocket passer - their lack of mobility is one thing that they have to overcome that a Manziel or Wilson does NOT. I don't look at it as being short, rather FAST, mobile, athletic, game changing SOOOOO long as they can make good throws from the pocket or on the run. This is the future of the league and success of the seahawks in the regular season, postseason/super bowl WILL influence future draft picks for sure. How many GMs are kicking themselves for not looking at RW.

To say it was just the Seahawk defense that won the rings is just plain ignorance.
Click to expand...

Don't be a prisoner of the moment. The Seahawks defense and STs absolutely won that game, but I digress...

The Seahawks as a TEAM won that game. All Wilson had to do was not screw it up. 6'4+ is definitely what it's about. If you don't have that you gotta work your A off to compensate.

Wilson misses free TDs all the time because of this. Last night Golden Tate was running free and had about 5 steps on his defender streaking down the sideline with NO help over the top. Wilson didn't see him and took off running not getting a 1st down and they punted, I actually think someone held because he didn't throw the ball, but I forget exactly.

He does this minimum 1 time per game, but everyone just says the WRs aren't good. I think these dude's could succeed in the NFL on other teams, but the Hawks don't need to use them because of the way they're built. Kind of like Bowe on the Chiefs.

I KNOW, even though this could never be proven, that Wilson, or a statuesque pocket passer could have won a Super Bowl on that team, because that team is too good to fail no matter who they have at QB, but don't try to start replicating that or you will be in a world of pain for years to come.
 
TexansFTW said:
Don't be a prisoner of the moment. The Seahawks defense and STs absolutely won that game, but I digress...

The Seahawks as a TEAM won that game. All Wilson had to do was not screw it up. 6'4+ is definitely what it's about. If you don't have that you gotta work your A off to compensate.

Wilson misses free TDs all the time because of this. Last night Golden Tate was running free and had about 5 steps on his defender streaking down the sideline with NO help over the top. Wilson didn't see him and took off running not getting a 1st down and they punted, I actually think someone held because he didn't throw the ball, but I forget exactly.

He does this minimum 1 time per game, but everyone just says the WRs aren't good. I think these dude's could succeed in the NFL on other teams, but the Hawks don't need to use them because of the way they're built. Kind of like Bowe on the Chiefs.

I KNOW, even though this could never be proven, that Wilson, or a statuesque pocket passer could have won a Super Bowl on that team, because that team is too good to fail no matter who they have at QB, but don't try to start replicating that or you will be in a world of pain for years to come.
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Good post. Agree 100%
 
I saw build up a defense like the Seahawks, then you don't need a superstar QB to get the job done.


That formula has been proven to work time and time again...
 
BullNation4Life said:
I saw build up a defense like the Seahawks, then you don't need a superstar QB to get the job done.


That formula has been proven to work time and time again...
Click to expand...

You may not need a superstar, but a good or better QB makes it easier. Most teams actually do have top notch QBs. And the Seahawks didn't take off until Wilson was in the fold despite having a top ranked defense prior to his arrival. Having both the D and the QB maximizes your chance to win it all.

But I think THE lesson to draw from Seattle isn't QB vs. defense but how Pete Carroll and John Schneider put that team together. Great picks and great player development maximized their roster.

It won't be who goes #1 who determines the teams' fate as much as how O'Brien evaluates and develops #1 and every one picked thereafter. I don't care who the Texans pick. I just want to see scheme fit and player development. So far, it seems the guys that have developed with the Texans would have developed similarly anywhere.
 
MojoX said:
But I think THE lesson to draw from Seattle isn't QB vs. defense but how Pete Carroll and John Schneider put that team together. Great picks and great player development maximized their roster.
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This is very true and needs to be emphasized; Seattle had an insane number of roster transactions this year (more than anyone else and by a wide margin, before you start bringing out your 'Fire Rick Smith' signs) and seemed to be constantly looking for the right people.
 
I was watching the local news here in Austin when I realized what we need: A Longhorn player. Seven straight years a Longhorn has won the Super Bowl and 20 have won since 2006. The missing piece has been realized...
 
TexansFTW said:
Don't be a prisoner of the moment. The Seahawks defense and STs absolutely won that game, but I digress...

The Seahawks as a TEAM won that game. All Wilson had to do was not screw it up. 6'4+ is definitely what it's about. If you don't have that you gotta work your A off to compensate.

Wilson misses free TDs all the time because of this. Last night Golden Tate was running free and had about 5 steps on his defender streaking down the sideline with NO help over the top. Wilson didn't see him and took off running not getting a 1st down and they punted, I actually think someone held because he didn't throw the ball, but I forget exactly.

He does this minimum 1 time per game, but everyone just says the WRs aren't good. I think these dude's could succeed in the NFL on other teams, but the Hawks don't need to use them because of the way they're built. Kind of like Bowe on the Chiefs.

I KNOW, even though this could never be proven, that Wilson, or a statuesque pocket passer could have won a Super Bowl on that team, because that team is too good to fail no matter who they have at QB, but don't try to start replicating that or you will be in a world of pain for years to come.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I just have hope that O'Brien and his staff are going to put the Texans on a real path to their own brand of success and not some fools gold that we had under Kubiak a few yrs ago.
 
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