Blake Bortles

[thunderkyss]

Man, you are so right. If the Texans were to ever get another chance at the 1st pick and chose the best QB, we'd definitely get another "Carr." Let's do the Kansas City route and beef up our defense, OL, and running game. It's all won there! Quarterback - Schmotorback. Who needs it.

That's not at all what I said. I said if you believe that a team such as ours has to take a chance on a QB now, then taking Carr in 2002 was still the right decision, even in hindsight.

I was actually coming around to your way of thinking.

But since he answered Peppers or Reed, then it's obvious he's looking for the best player in the draft (who takes a safety with the #1 overall?).

As an aside, I don't think it was a mistake to draft Carr. I think everything we did after that was.

 

[mussop]

In hindsight, knowing what you know now, how would you have handled that draft?

I was begging for peppers first and I wanted us to sign Trent Dilfer as a free agent. There were way better QB's coming out the next year. It wasn't like we were going to make the playoffs our first year.

 

[Playoffs]

Ryan McCrystal ‏@Ryan_McCrystal

I also have concerns about Bortles accuracy. Watch him throw this ball like a dart. Fails to lead open WR

[IMGwidthsize=510]http://www.draftace.com/Gifs/2014/Bortles_inaccurate.gif[/IMG]

Ryan McCrystal ‏@Ryan_McCrystal

Another Bortles gif for you. Underthrowing a wide open receiver

Ryan McCrystal ‏@Ryan_McCrystal

Here's Bortles weak arm showcased when defense takes away ability to step into throw. Throw falls short, intercepted

Ryan McCrystal ‏@Ryan_McCrystal

Here's a good example of why I'm worried about Bortles' arm. Takes maximum effort just to hit WR on this 16 yard post

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I already stated you need that trading partner. As for the rest? Just "rolling the dice" is what gets you Ryan Leaf.

Rolling the dice is also what gets you Peyton Manning.

Because that's all anyone is doing in this business.

You've got to go through your evaluation process and then you've got to trust it. If you don't think a QB in the draft is the best choice for you at 1-1, then you don't make that move just because you think you "have" to.
If the Texans go through their process and they don't think Bridgewater or Bortles is going to be the player that's going to be the most productive for our team, then they shouldn't draft them.

If they think Louis Nix is going to be the most impactful player they could draft, then they should draft him and all the experts be damned.

You find the best player for your team and you roll the dice. If you happen to think that's Ryan Leaf, c'est la vie.

 

[Texn4life]

Bortles has Gabbert, Ponder, and Locker written all over him. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

 

[matts290]

Been trying to like him but I just can't; all I see is a big guy who is mediocre at everything. His game just isn't fluid in my eyes, and he doesn't make it look easy like I see Manziel and Bridgewater often doing.

 

[revan]

What is watchespn and how do I get it

www.watchespn.com

If you have a cable provider just log in and you can search the school name and watch basketball or football games. Also I got to watch MNF at work. Anything on ESPN you can watch it there.

 

[WolverineFan]

Wow. Didn't see that coming. I think Lewan has the size to pay LT in the pros. 4 year starter at LT for Michigan. And naaaaaaaasty which some people keep yearning for from our players. I think a team will take him in the first round, 1 year on the right, then take over permanently on the left.

Well being plugged into the Michigan program I tend to have heavier feelings toward UM players. I loved Robinson, Graham, and Martin coming out probably more than anyone. I have the opposite feeling toward Lewan. The guy was probably the worst team captain in the history of the football team. He's constantly in trouble and acts like a thug.

He has the size, the mean streak, and is athletic enough to be a successful OT in the NFL. His pass blocking is nothing special, but his run blocking is which is why I lean toward RT for him. Again, I could see him playing LT, but I don't see him as a "franchise" LT.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Well being plugged into the Michigan program I tend to have heavier feelings toward UM players. I loved Robinson, Graham, and Martin coming out probably more than anyone. I have the opposite feeling toward Lewan. The guy was probably the worst team captain in the history of the football team. He's constantly in trouble and acts like a thug.

He has the size, the mean streak, and is athletic enough to be a successful OT in the NFL. His pass blocking is nothing special, but his run blocking is which is why I lean toward RT for him. Again, I could see him playing LT, but I don't see him as a "franchise" LT.

If I was going to take a OT I'm not so sure I would take Mathews . I'm thinking Erving and Robinson have brighter futures at OT .

 

[WolverineFan]

If I was going to take a OT I'm not so sure I would take Mathews . I'm thinking Erving and Robinson have brighter futures at OT .

Erving is going back to school so he's out. Robinson has the most potential out of him, Mathews, and Lewan. I actually like Richardson more than Lewan.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Erving is going back to school so he's out. Robinson has the most potential out of him, Mathews, and Lewan. I actually like Richardson more than Lewan.

They were talking about Matthews moving to guard on the radio because he has short arms .

 

[WolverineFan]

They were talking about Matthews moving to guard on the radio because he has short arms .

I've never thought of Mathews as a "franchise" LT. He's overrated because of his name. I think he will be a solid NFL player, but he's not going to be a perennial All-Pro. JMO.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

I'm no QB expert, but how is his footwork.

Looking at those GIFs not sure he sets his feet and really steps into his throws.

 

[Texian]

The bolded is why folks might think you're biased...me included. Bridgewater has been rumored to be potentially the top pick..or at least top 5 in the draft for basically 2 years now...& you pretty much go out of your way to discredit him.

Meanwhile, I don't think Bortles was on anyone's radar as potentially the best qb and top pick in the draft until here recently in the last month or so. For your part you admittedly say that Bortles wasn't even on your radar........until he had 1 nice showing against an SEC team.....that wasn't even that nice imo.

Here's another thing. TB & Bortles both played in the AAC. So why is it that people discredit the AAC competition when talking about TB & what he did against them.... but ignore it for the most part when talking about Bortles?
What Bortles' team did this year is what TB team did last year except:

TB's game statistically was better
The team TB faced was better imo
TB looked much more comfortable on the big stage than Bortles did


In all honesty, the only thing that Bortles really has on TB is that he looks more the part than TB. If his arm is stronger, its neglible imo.

"Bridgewater has been rumored to be potentially the top pick..or at least top 5 in the draft for basically 2 years now...& you pretty much go out of your way to discredit him."

Two years ago Teddy was barely average and ordinary as testament to his 64% completion, 14TDs to 12 INTs and a 132 QBR. Two years ago, just about everyone thought Logan Thomas was to be the #1 pick in this draft and was expected to be better than Cam Newton.

"Here's another thing. TB & Bortles both played in the AAC. So why is it that people discredit the AAC competition when talking about TB & what he did against them.... but ignore it for the most part when talking about Bortles?"

Re: the competition, Bortles faced Jadevon Clowney and South Carolina and Penn St. Bridgewater faced Eastern Kentucky and Florida International.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

"Bridgewater has been rumored to be potentially the top pick..or at least top 5 in the draft for basically 2 years now...& you pretty much go out of your way to discredit him."

Two years ago Teddy was barely average and ordinary as testament to his 64% completion, 14TDs to 12 INTs and a 132 QBR. Two years ago, just about everyone thought Logan Thomas was to be the #1 pick in this draft and was expected to be better than Cam Newton.

"Here's another thing. TB & Bortles both played in the AAC. So why is it that people discredit the AAC competition when talking about TB & what he did against them.... but ignore it for the most part when talking about Bortles?"

Re: the competition, Bortles faced Jadevon Clowney and South Carolina and Penn St. Bridgewater faced Eastern Kentucky and Florida International.

Teddy was a known prospect after his freshman year . The stats you put up for a true freshman are pretty good .

 

[Texian]

Teddy was a known prospect after his freshman year . The stats you put up for a true freshman are pretty good .

They are what you can expect from a freshman, not great but not bad.

 

[Playoffs]

UCF QB Blake Bortles

I view Bortles as a player with lessons to learn, but “unlearning” a lot of bad habits isn’t one of them. He’d fit best on a team with a staff that sports a track record of success developing quarterbacks. It would be even better if he sat behind a veteran sold on aiding Bortles’ long-term development.

If the Central Florida quarterback lands in this type of situation, he has shown enough feel for the game that he can develop into a capable NFL starter. He has the upside to lead a team to the playoffs and carry that team in the fourth quarter of games. Yet, if his development becomes a case of mostly self-directed study, Bortles could create knots in his game that become more difficult to untie later.

Bortles isn’t the slam dunk prospect that most think Luck was, but I like his feel for the game.

If I had responsibility picking players for an NFL team, Bortles makes my shortlist of first-round candidates based on what I’ve seen thus far and would remain there at least until I interviewed him. I believe he’s closer to what the Titans are hoping they’ll see consistently from Jake Locker.

 

[matts290]

So I know a lot of people have Bortles pegged as having a very strong arm, but I seem to be missing it. I have watched the majority of his cut ups on draft break down and I am not seeing that he has an exceptionally strong arm, actually appears average to me. Do people see his size and weight and just assume he has a strong arm because of his size?

Take this throw for example against Conneticut, he has a guy open deep and although he threw it far, the ball kinda just hangs up after it finishes arching. He doesn't "put the ball on a rope" and it falls incomplete

http://youtu.be/uCmqzmi9XNU?t=2m45s

 

[revan]

Well, just finished watching the last regular season game for UCF and I think I can now give my opinion on Bortles after seeing all his games. First thing that popped out is that Bortles has the ideal height and build for NFL QBs. I noticed he can evade out of the pocket and pick up tough yards. A surprisingly good scrambler and reminded me more of Luck rather than Roethlisberger. He sees the field really well and flows right through his progressions. Accuracy comes and goes but that could be cleaned up with technique improvements. He does a terrific job of keeping his eyes down field and loses almost nothing throwing on the run to his right or left. I don’t think I’ve seen a right-handed quarterback throw better going to his left. The arm strength is there, and he can make NFL caliber throws. When his footwork is precise and he steps into his throws he can look elite which, I think is the main reason scouts are starting to shoot him up on their boards. He’s shown flashes of making “window” throws and touch passes over defenders. His last 4th qtr drive to seal the win AT LOUISVILLE was simply amazing. I was easily reminded of Joe Montana because of how he kept his cool and drove the Knight's 75 yards and the TD to get the win.

I also noticed his weaknesses. His confidence and arm strength are definitely positives, but they also get him into trouble at times. He has a bad habit of leaning back when throwing instead of stepping into his throws. His deep ball is tough to gauge because most of his passes in the UCF offense are short bubble screens, slants and out routes rather than vertical routes. Against South Carolina he was particularly lethal on slant routes and a lot of yards came from receivers running to open space. Also when asked to throw deep he’s had mixed result. There are times he tries to force the ball into tight coverage or loses a defender underneath. While he’s a load to bring down and rarely is handled by a single defender, he could improve on getting the ball out earlier to avoid a collapsing pocket.

In the end, I can see why Bortles is a name to watch throughout the draft process. Like I mentioned he has excellent size, feet, arm strength and has shown he can make all the throws. The test for him, and essentially also the other QBs we are all looking at, will be their decision making. It doesn’t matter how many yards you throw for if you turn it over. Bortles isn’t turnover prone but the interceptions IMO are the only thing holding him back from going first overall. That’s a lofty projection, but all the tools are there.

For me its still Bridgewater.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Well, just finished watching the last regular season game for UCF and I think I can now give my opinion on Bortles after seeing all his games. First thing that popped out is that Bortles has the ideal height and build for NFL QBs. I noticed he can evade out of the pocket and pick up tough yards. A surprisingly good scrambler and reminded me more of Luck rather than Roethlisberger. He sees the field really well and flows right through his progressions. Accuracy comes and goes but that could be cleaned up with technique improvements. He does a terrific job of keeping his eyes down field and loses almost nothing throwing on the run to his right or left. I don’t think I’ve seen a right-handed quarterback throw better going to his left. The arm strength is there, and he can make NFL caliber throws. When his footwork is precise and he steps into his throws he can look elite which, I think is the main reason scouts are starting to shoot him up on their boards. He’s shown flashes of making “window” throws and touch passes over defenders. His last 4th qtr drive to seal the win AT LOUISVILLE was simply amazing. I was easily reminded of Joe Montana because of how he kept his cool and drove the Knight's 75 yards and the TD to get the win.

I also noticed his weaknesses. His confidence and arm strength are definitely positives, but they also get him into trouble at times. He has a bad habit of leaning back when throwing instead of stepping into his throws. His deep ball is tough to gauge because most of his passes in the UCF offense are short bubble screens, slants and out routes rather than vertical routes. Against South Carolina he was particularly lethal on slant routes and a lot of yards came from receivers running to open space. Also when asked to throw deep he’s had mixed result. There are times he tries to force the ball into tight coverage or loses a defender underneath. While he’s a load to bring down and rarely is handled by a single defender, he could improve on getting the ball out earlier to avoid a collapsing pocket.

In the end, I can see why Bortles is a name to watch throughout the draft process. Like I mentioned he has excellent size, feet, arm strength and has shown he can make all the throws. The test for him, and essentially also the other QBs we are all looking at, will be their decision making. It doesn’t matter how many yards you throw for if you turn it over. Bortles isn’t turnover prone but the interceptions IMO are the only thing holding him back from going first overall. That’s a lofty projection, but all the tools are there.

For me its still Bridgewater.

Nice job. Appreciate the time and effort, revan.

 

[badboy]

The problem with the idea that there's no one worth 1-1 is that you've got to take someone. If no one wants to trade with you, then you've either got to give something up to induce someone to take it off your hands or you have to make a decision.

The problem is thinking that 1-1 has to be the best player in the draft and has to be the second coming of Peyton Manning. 1-1 has to be the player you think can make the biggest impact with your team that you're not going to be able to take at your next draft pick.

If a middle linebacker is the guy who's going to make the biggest impact and he's not going to be there at your next pick and no one wants to trade with you, then you take that guy with 1-1. If it's a guard or a safety, then you take that guy.

This whole argument that you don't take rush linebackers or you don't take right tackles doesn't work for me although I know a lot of people ascribe to that philosophy.

You make a decision and you roll the dice. (Assuming, like I said, you can't trade and end up in a better position.)

This is sort of my thought as well as I do not care what other teams think of my pick. The purpose of draft is to build the roster. At each pick, I want the BPA that moves team closer to a Super Bowl. Due to our roster, we have to fill team needs as we see priority. We can tell from comments on this MB in many threads that there is a disagreement over how those needs should be prioritized. On my current non trade mock, I have C J Mosley 1-1. I see him as one of the most NFL ready least risk player available + he fills a priority need.

 

[revan]

Nice job. Appreciate the time and effort, revan.

Thanks buddy, it made my night shift go fast at work. Now time to watch games on prospects for my mock draft.

 

[steelbtexan]

If we go OT at #1 the only guy I'm okay with is Greg Robinson. I think he's a franchise LT, and he would also benefit from starting out at RT.

I think Matthews, Kouandjio, and Lewan are all future RTs. Matthews maybe even an OG.

My #2 LT in the draft is Richardson, and I think there's a shot he will be there at #33.

This is simplifying things big time but I like Bridgewater and Richardson more than Mettenberger and Robinson.

I like Clowney/Richardson/Brett Smith more than Bridgewater/Richardson.

 

[Mr teX]

"Bridgewater has been rumored to be potentially the top pick..or at least top 5 in the draft for basically 2 years now...& you pretty much go out of your way to discredit him."

Two years ago Teddy was barely average and ordinary as testament to his 64% completion, 14TDs to 12 INTs and a 132 QBR. Two years ago, just about everyone thought Logan Thomas was to be the #1 pick in this draft and was expected to be better than Cam Newton.

"Here's another thing. TB & Bortles both played in the AAC. So why is it that people discredit the AAC competition when talking about TB & what he did against them.... but ignore it for the most part when talking about Bortles?"

Re: the competition, Bortles faced Jadevon Clowney and South Carolina and Penn St. Bridgewater faced Eastern Kentucky and Florida International.

Counting this past year & the year before that, TB has been ranked up there for a while now...& you're spotting 2 games in which Bortles played "ok" in as an advantage in competition over TB? C'mon Texian. The Florida & Miami teams TB faced in his bowl games were as good or better than the South Carolina & Penn State teams Bortles faced this year...TB also performed better against the teams he faced than Bortles did against his.

On my "board" I have Bortles #2 behind TB, but If anything they're even in the competition arena...As i said in another post, What Bortles' team did this year, TB's team did last year.

 

[Texian]

Counting this past year & the year before that, TB has been ranked up there for a while now...& you're spotting 2 games in which Bortles played "ok" in as an advantage in competition over TB? C'mon Texian. The Florida & Miami teams TB faced in his bowl games were as good or better than the South Carolina & Penn State teams Bortles faced this year...TB also performed better against the teams he faced than Bortles did against his.

On my "board" I have Bortles #2 behind TB, but If anything they're even in the competition arena...As i said in another post, What Bortles' team did this year, TB's team did last year.

The Florida team that TB beat was almost the same Florida team that went 4-8 this year and lost to Georgia Southern at home. My point is playing Ohio, Florida International and Missouri State is conducive to helping inflate one's stats while playing teams like Ohio State, South Carolina, Missouri and Penn State does not pad stats as well as playing the weak sisters. Playing a 9-4 Miami maybe the equivalent of playing a 7-5 Penn State but it is not on par with playing a an 11-2 South Carolina or an 11-2 Baylor. Louisville's toughest competition this year was 12-1 UCF to whom they lost and at home no less.

If you compare Teddy's freshman year to Manziel's freshman year there is no comparison. Not even in the same ballpark.

 

[deucetx]

The Florida team that TB beat was almost the same Florida team that went 4-8 this year and lost to Georgia Southern at home. My point is playing Ohio, Florida International and Missouri State is conducive to helping inflate one's stats while playing teams like Ohio State, South Carolina, Missouri and Penn State does not pad stats as well as playing the weak sisters. Playing a 9-4 Miami maybe the equivalent of playing a 7-5 Penn State but it is not on par with playing a an 11-2 South Carolina or an 11-2 Baylor. Louisville's toughest competition this year was 12-1 UCF to whom they lost and at home no less.

If you compare Teddy's freshman year to Manziel's freshman year there is no comparison. Not even in the same ballpark.

No real dog in this race though if I had to choose then Bortles would probably be third option after the obvious other two QB's since Carr isn't in the discussion. But you're stretching things a bit just so you can have your own point.

That Florida Gators team was no where near the same team. Not even close. Most of their starters on defense were replaced. Now some were backups on the 2012 roster but the majority was gone including at least four players off the top of my head who were NFL players this past season:

Jon Bostic
Josh Evans
Matt Elam
Shariff Floyd

So that definitely does not equal same team from '12 to '13 defensively. That Gators team was one of the better defenses that year and that's why folks started looking at Bridgewater because he performed solid against a superior defense. Don't try to short change the guy because you don't like him over Bortles or Manziel or what not.

As for schedule, someone else put a link to illustrate all these guys from the 'big name' schools often are not your starters in the league. Won't go into the whole reasoning Cowherd had or what not but just saying let's not put too much weight in it. In this case, it's kind of easy to move on from it because Bortles and TB played in the same conference. Simply take the games against common opponents, average them out and go from there. Rounded where needed:

Bortles 19/28 with a 67.3 completion percentage 2 TD's 0.4 Int's and a rating of 164.3

Bridgewater 22/31 with a 71 completion percentage 2 TD's 0.4 Int's and a rating of 165.9

Little difference for us to be having those overly long debates on the subject to be honest. Probably why I haven't dove into it for pages upon pages. I'm cool with whoever O'Brien goes with if between these three. They have positives and negatives.

As for Manziel's freshmen year I wouldn't compare that to someone who was in a more 'pro-style' because there is a different learning curve. Like I said, I'm cool with all three so maybe it's a reason I am objective about them. I can't argue one over the other without another point rising for the other. It's really back and forth. But Manziel operated in a system more easy to grasp as stated here:

http://footballscoop.com/news/8024-kingsbury-keeps-it-simple-on-offense

They designed it to be this way as does Briles and such. Guys from these systems coached by Sumlin, Briles, Leach, etc., have yet to a QB produce except RG3 one year. So it is something to be concerned. At the same time it's good that Manziel goes outside of the Aggies in the offseason to progress which I think will help him for the next level.

 

[WolverineFan]

The Florida team that TB beat was almost the same Florida team that went 4-8 this year and lost to Georgia Southern at home.

They most certainly were not. About half of that #3 defense was gone to the NFL and their best returning player was out for the year with an injury. They were also starting their 3rd string freshman QB who was making his 2nd career start. Not even close to the same team.

My point is playing Ohio, Florida International and Missouri State is conducive to helping inflate one's stats while playing teams like Ohio State, South Carolina, Missouri and Penn State does not pad stats as well as playing the weak sisters. Playing a 9-4 Miami maybe the equivalent of playing a 7-5 Penn State but it is not on par with playing a an 11-2 South Carolina or an 11-2 Baylor. Louisville's toughest competition this year was 12-1 UCF to whom they lost and at home no less.

And Bridgewater played great in that game. In Bridgewater's few games against top competition, he has played great. Bortles has been exposed to more of these games and has not played as well as Bridgewater. Giving him credit just because he played those teams is ridiculous.

Perhaps we should just draft Logan Thomas instead. I mean he did play against Alabama, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Duke, Boston College, Miami, Maryland, and UCLA this year. It shouldn't matter that Bridgewater or Bortles played better against their top competition, Thomas has been exposed to more and has played against a much higher level of competition.

If you compare Teddy's freshman year to Manziel's freshman year there is no comparison. Not even in the same ballpark.

Bridgewater was a true freshman. Manziel was a redshirt. Big difference.

 

[Mr teX]

The Florida team that TB beat was almost the same Florida team that went 4-8 this year and lost to Georgia Southern at home. My point is playing Ohio, Florida International and Missouri State is conducive to helping inflate one's stats while playing teams like Ohio State, South Carolina, Missouri and Penn State does not pad stats as well as playing the weak sisters. Playing a 9-4 Miami maybe the equivalent of playing a 7-5 Penn State but it is not on par with playing a an 11-2 South Carolina or an 11-2 Baylor. Louisville's toughest competition this year was 12-1 UCF to whom they lost and at home no less.

If you compare Teddy's freshman year to Manziel's freshman year there is no comparison. Not even in the same ballpark.

Manziel & what he did as a freshman has nothing to do with this.....even though that same 11-1 Florida team that TB destroyed in the sugar bowl, pretty much locked up Manziel in college station. However, i don't put much stock into that, just like i don't put much stock into ridiculous stats or how many BCS conference teams a guy has faced. If you can play, your performance will be pretty much consistent across the board no matter who you played. & when looked at from that standpoint, TB more than any of these other qb prospects is about as consistent as you get.

 

[TexansSeminole]

The Florida team that TB beat was almost the same Florida team that went 4-8 this year and lost to Georgia Southern at home. My point is playing Ohio, Florida International and Missouri State is conducive to helping inflate one's stats while playing teams like Ohio State, South Carolina, Missouri and Penn State does not pad stats as well as playing the weak sisters. Playing a 9-4 Miami maybe the equivalent of playing a 7-5 Penn State but it is not on par with playing a an 11-2 South Carolina or an 11-2 Baylor. Louisville's toughest competition this year was 12-1 UCF to whom they lost and at home no less.

If you compare Teddy's freshman year to Manziel's freshman year there is no comparison. Not even in the same ballpark.

The same Florida team? Do you even watch college football? Clearly, you don't follow it as closely as you like to portray. Florida lost a few players on defense and also had horrendous injuries all year. Try again.

 

[Texian]

They most certainly were not. About half of that #3 defense was gone to the NFL and their best returning player was out for the year with an injury. They were also starting their 3rd string freshman QB who was making his 2nd career start. Not even close to the same team.

1st TEAM QB Jeff Driskell is horrible, terrible, the reason they lost GA, didn't play for SEC Champ, Natl Champ and lost the Sugar Bowl.


And Bridgewater played great in that game. In Bridgewater's few games against top competition, he has played great. Bortles has been exposed to more of these games and has not played as well as Bridgewater. Giving him credit just because he played those teams is ridiculous.

For some it easy to understand, that it's all to easy to pad your stats when you schedule weak sisters that allow for you to complete 80% of your passes, throw for 5 TDs and then take a seat on the bench for most of the 2nd half a couple of times a year. Then there are others who don't understand it or are in denial, making excuses and refuse to face the reality of the situation and find no difference between Ohio, Florida International, Missouri State and schools like South Carolina, Penn State, Ohio State and Missouri.

Perhaps we should just draft Logan Thomas instead. I mean he did play against Alabama, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Duke, Boston College, Miami, Maryland, and UCLA this year. It shouldn't matter that Bridgewater or Bortles played better against their top competition, Thomas has been exposed to more and has played against a much higher level of competition.

and the idea of drafting Logan Thomas is a perfect example of those that engage in some very irrational thinking. Sometimes they just don't make any sense.

 

[Texian]

Manziel & what he did as a freshman has nothing to do with this.....even though that same 11-1 Florida team that TB destroyed in the sugar bowl, pretty much locked up Manziel in college station.

That was Manziel's first game as a college QB and they weren't destroyed, Manziel almost beat them. Unlike Teddy playing the 30th game of his college career. Common Tex you are better than this

 

[Mr teX]

That was Manziel's first game as a college QB and they weren't destroyed, Manziel almost beat them. Unlike Teddy playing the 30th game of his college career. Common Tex you are better than this

Your reading comprehension is horrible. I never said anything about them getting destroyed I said TB destroyed that same Florida team in his bowl game that pretty much locked Manziel up earlier that year b/c he didn't play all that great.

And for the record, Manziel padded his stats against overmatched opponents alot too...don't act like that's something exclusive to TB.

 

[Exascor]

That was Manziel's first game as a college QB and they weren't destroyed, Manziel almost beat them. Unlike Teddy playing the 30th game of his college career. Common Tex you are better than this

Yeah because TB's team is as talented as Manziel's right? This is an example of how you really have to just evaluate the player and not the team results.Common sense says you are trying to pump your guy/s using bogus information that can be skewed to prove either side right. I'm still undecided on who to draft but you are only clouding the picture, not making it clearer.

 

[WolverineFan]

And for the record, Manziel padded his stats against overmatched opponents alot too...don't act like that's something exclusive to TB.

Manziel did in fact pad his stats against SMU, South Carolina State, Louisiana Tech, and Sam Houston State in 2012 to the tune of 13 TD's and 2 INT's. He also had 9 rushing TD's in those games.

In SEC play, he threw 11 TD's and 6 INT's and ran for 10 TD's.

In 2013, he padded his stats against Rice, Sam Houston State, SMU, and UTEP. In those 4 games he threw 11 TD's and 2 INT's. He ran for 5 TD's.

In SEC play, he threw 22 TD's and 11 INT's and ran for 3 TD's.

In 2 years (8 games) of non-conference play, Manziel threw 24 TD's with 4 INT's and ran for 14 TD's.
In 2 years (16 games) of SEC play, Manziel threw for 33 TD's with 17 INT's and ran for 13 TD's.
In 2 bowl games (Duke & Oklahoma), Manziel threw for 6 TD's with 1 INT and ran for 3 TD's.

 

[thunderkyss]

In the end, I can see why Bortles is a name to watch throughout the draft process. Like I mentioned he has excellent size, feet, arm strength and has shown he can make all the throws. The test for him, and essentially also the other QBs we are all looking at, will be their decision making. It doesn’t matter how many yards you throw for if you turn it over. Bortles isn’t turnover prone but the interceptions IMO are the only thing holding him back from going first overall. That’s a lofty projection, but all the tools are there.

Good post.

I think Bortles has the size, but not enough flash to compensate for his other shortcomings.

Manziel has the flash, but not the size to compensate for his shortcomings.

Bridgewater has enough size & flash to keep him in the conversation, but - imo - not enough.

Right now, Bridgewater is the best choice, if you're going to spend a 1-1 on a QB that's lacking quite a bit from other QBs who were acquired with the 1-1, then he's the best choice.

If he weighs in at 215lbs, He makes up a big part of that gap. 210lbs..... close enough.

AT the same time, if Bortles has an amazing Combine, decides to throw & all that..... he could very easily become the best choice.

I like Manziel, a lot. There's just no way I'll risk a top 10 pick on him. Just can't do it, unless this draft is extremely void of talent.

 

[Mr teX]

I don't think that's accurate. As I recall, A&M was set to play Louisiana Tech in week 1 and the game was delayed so Florida was in fact Manziel's first game.

However, Manziel did in fact pad his stats against SMU, South Carolina State, Louisiana Tech, and Sam Houston State to the tune of 13 TD's and 2 INT's. He also had 9 rushing TD's in those games.

In SEC play, he threw 13 TD's and 7 INT's and ran for 12 TD's.

In 2013, he padded his stats against Rice, Sam Houston State, SMU, and UTEP. In those 4 games he threw 11 TD's and 2 INT's. He ran for 5 TD's.

In SEC play, he threw 26 TD's and 11 INT's and ran for 4 TD's.

yeah, had to edit that out....forgot that L tech game got delayed. In any event, all these guys benefited from playing the "weak sisters of the poor" as he says. You also can't penalize a guy for beasting the teams on his schedule b/c he has little control over that. It's even more ridiculous to take that stance when comparing 2 prospects from the same conference like Bortles and Bridgewater.

 

[Dutchrudder]

yeah, had to edit that out....forgot that L tech game got delayed. In any event, all these guys benefited from playing the "weak sisters of the poor" as he says. You also can't penalize a guy for beasting the teams on his schedule b/c he has little control over that. It's even more ridiculous when comparing 2 prospects from the same conference like Bortles and Bridgewater.

Yeah, it's also not a good argument when your guy plays crappy against several of the "tough" teams listed, like Ohio State and Missouri, and loses the games. The best thing about Texans posting those is that Missouri was a 5 win team 2 years ago when they played UCF, so they weren't really that great.

 

[bah007]

The Florida team that TB beat was almost the same Florida team that went 4-8 this year and lost to Georgia Southern at home. My point is playing Ohio, Florida International and Missouri State is conducive to helping inflate one's stats while playing teams like Ohio State, South Carolina, Missouri and Penn State does not pad stats as well as playing the weak sisters. Playing a 9-4 Miami maybe the equivalent of playing a 7-5 Penn State but it is not on par with playing a an 11-2 South Carolina or an 11-2 Baylor. Louisville's toughest competition this year was 12-1 UCF to whom they lost and at home no less.

If you compare Teddy's freshman year to Manziel's freshman year there is no comparison. Not even in the same ballpark.

LOL you spend all this time typing and yet you literally never say anything of substance.

 

[bah007]

I like Clowney/Richardson/Brett Smith more than Bridgewater/Richardson.

That's fair, but I would give it an incomplete without knowing who that other third round guy is.

How does that compare to something like Bridgewater/Richardson/Attaochu?

 

[WolverineFan]

yeah, had to edit that out....forgot that L tech game got delayed. In any event, all these guys benefited from playing the "weak sisters of the poor" as he says. You also can't penalize a guy for beasting the teams on his schedule b/c he has little control over that. It's even more ridiculous to take that stance when comparing 2 prospects from the same conference like Bortles and Bridgewater.

Well the funny thing is that he penalizes Bridgewater for beating up the "weak sisters of the poor" but not Manziel. Manziel boosted his stats a ton in non-conference games the past 2 years.

He also penalizes Bridgewater for playing in a weak conference, but doesn't penalize Bortles. His argument is that Bortles played Ohio State, Missouri, South Carolina, and Penn State out of conference. Forget that he only played well in 2 of those games. The fact that UCF played those games erases Bridgewater's superior performances against Florida and Miami.

I, and many other people on this board, try to look at things clearly and objectively. He, on the other hand, has an obvious agenda in every thread that he enters and only helps to cloud the issue and turn things into flame wars.

 

[WolverineFan]

For some it easy to understand, that it's all to easy to pad your stats when you schedule weak sisters that allow for you to complete 80% of your passes, throw for 5 TDs and then take a seat on the bench for most of the 2nd half a couple of times a year. Then there are others who don't understand it or are in denial, making excuses and refuse to face the reality of the situation and find no difference between Ohio, Florida International, Missouri State and schools like South Carolina, Penn State, Ohio State and Missouri.

The only one in denial is you. You refuse to look at the entire picture. You have your agenda and wish to push it. That's fine. But don't call out other posters when they clearly have a better grasp on reality than you do. At least try and maintain some semblance of objectivity.

 

[disaacks3]

A surprisingly good scrambler and reminded me more of Luck rather than Roethlisberger.

Glad it wasn't just me!

 

[Texian]

Well the funny thing is that he penalizes Bridgewater for beating up the "weak sisters of the poor" but not Manziel. Manziel boosted his stats a ton in non-conference games the past 2 years.

That's because the original conversation was about Bortles and Bridgewater. Manziel had NOT been discussed. The original commentary was Bortles playing Penn St & South Carolina vs Teddy playing Ohio and Florida International. You know what they say, people who can't handle the truth will change the narrative and so you did.

He also penalizes Bridgewater for playing in a weak conference, but doesn't penalize Bortles. His argument is that Bortles played Ohio State, Missouri, South Carolina, and Penn State out of conference. Forget that he only played well in 2 of those games. The fact that UCF played those games erases Bridgewater's superior performances against Florida and Miami.

I, and many other people on this board, try to look at things clearly and objectively. He, on the other hand, has an obvious agenda in every thread that he enters and only helps to cloud the issue and turn things into flame wars.

^^^^ Comments in BOLD^^^^

In Bortles and Bridgewater I only make note of the weak sisters, common conference opponents, uncommon non conference opponents. Manziel vs Bridgewater comparisons and level of competition was only mentioned after the narrative was changed.

I, and many other people on this board, try to look at things clearly and objectively.

When did making excuses for your bias become clear and objective. You're confusing clearly and objectively with DISCOMBOBULATED which is how you often sound when anyone makes any faint criticism of Teddy or when anyone says something nice about and Manziel or Bortles and doesn't mention Teddy too. Which is not uncommon with most BIAS Teddy comments, which are mostly knee jerk and reactionary, like a response you get if someone said something bad about your momma.

 

[WolverineFan]

When did making excuses for your bias become clear and objective. You're confusing clearly and objectively with DISCOMBOBULATED which is how you often sound when anyone makes any faint criticism of Teddy or when anyone says something nice about and Manziel or Bortles and doesn't mention Teddy too. Which is not uncommon with most BIAS Teddy comments, which are mostly knee jerk and reactionary, like a response you get if someone said something bad about your momma.

 

[Marshall]

Better is better....period....and if you can afford it, you always pick the best of whatever. You don't not pick the best just b/c you may be able to get something else similar cheaper... This is the situation the Texans are in with 1:1. You have the opportunity to pick who you think is the best...so pick the best...doesn't matter how much better...or even what position it is...well actually, the position does kinda matter at that slot.

Alot of it has to do with the teams at the top of the draft board (qb needy), but as i said with TB, if you are thought to be good enough to go top 5, you're good enough to be picked 1:1 overall. Many draftniks have Bortles going top 5. Hell, LZ/John Harris has him as ranked as the #1 prospect overall i believe.

As far as the rest of your post, It doesn't really make sense. Everyone's board is different, but not as much when it comes to the top 5 picks. In essesnce what you're saying is that we shouldn't look at Teddy or any other qb if the jags & browns don't have them ranked the same or are already looking at drafting either of the 3....

This reminds me of the separation of fans when Texas signed Rodriguez. Some, like you thought he was the best player in baseball and therefore there was no price too high to pay. The Owner went with that group and within three years, learned the hard lesson that even the best player can cost too much to field a winning team.

I have always believed that every player's price must be considered alongside his value to the team. Many times the best player is also the best value, but not always.

 

[Texian]

The typical KNEE-JERK reactionary response.

 

[matts290]

You guys are getting way to caught up in the who, what, when, and where. Analyzing SOS and stats are all fine and dandy, but what really matters is a players individual skillset; that is what is most important at the next level and what we should be analyzing more thoroughly. Overall schedule and strength of opponents played should be very far down the list in my opinion, and rather we should look at how each player performed when facing their best competition and in their biggest games. In this aspect all 3 guys; Manziel, Teddy and Bortles have done exceptionally well.

 

[Marshall]

Completely on board with this statement. Now the draft class sux. I'm having a hard time following that logic. If your guy is there, ya snag him. Case closed, it's a wrap.

The draft class is great. It's just the top of the draft class that's muddled.

 

[Marshall]

I already stated you need that trading partner. As for the rest? Just "rolling the dice" is what gets you Ryan Leaf.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

If everybody comes to the same conclusion as us, there will be no trades. But that rarely happens, so it makes trades a real possibility.

 

[WolverineFan]

You guys are getting way to caught up in the who, what, when, and where. Analyzing SOS and stats are all fine and dandy, but what really matters is a players individual skillset; that is what is most important at the next level and what we should be analyzing more thoroughly. Overall schedule and strength of opponents played should be very far down the list in my opinion, and rather we should look at how each player performed when facing their best competition and in their biggest games. In this aspect all 3 guys; Manziel, Teddy and Bortles have done exceptionally well.

You make great points and I fully agree. I tend to dismiss SOS when it comes to an individual level because what matters is how a guy performs against the better competition. I don't care if a guy has been beating up on little teams if he has proven that he can beat up the big teams as well. All 3 guys have proven they can play against the big boys, therefore, I don't really care what conference they play in. However, since SOS was brought up, I decided to play along.