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Jadeveon Clowney playing with bone spurs

TexansFTW said:
This thread has become a joke.

Clowney supporters blinded by love of a hit on a RB in 2012, watching the same replay over and over again, telling everyone else they are an idiot if they won't carry his bags for him.
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That's an unfair generalization. Clowney's tape from the Outback bowl is great and all (especially considering he's going against a potential 1st-round pick in Lewan) but I've been more impressed from his 2013 tape so far like his games against UNC (when he was dealing with a stomach virus) and Tennessee (where he didn't register a sack but basically lived in the backfield and it is most apparent that he's being schemed against - all while facing Antonio Richardson). Anyone who only uses The Hit to argue for Clowney is doing themselves a disservice, if anything.

And BHSman, you asked me for proof in another thread and I quoted a credible source and you just completely ignored it and took a random shot at me. Get out of here bro.
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If that's the case, I apologize if I didn't address your argument fully. I'll see if I can find it if you don't repost the link here later.

"GIVE ME A SOURCE! GIVE ME A SOURCE!" Then you get it and you dismiss it. Here's your source bro, let me teach you how to Google, try any of the first 15 links you see from credible websites:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jadaveon+clowney+work+ethic
.
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That is a very fancy way of telling me you don't have a direct source from South Carolina telling us about Clowney's work ethic, just a lot of hot air from the media. Half of those links are either about Clowney admitting his 2012 season could have been better and has since improved upon his work ethic, or from earlier in the season before it came out that he was dealing with a rib injury and bone spurs.

Even then a lot of them are some faceless 'NFL exec' or the words of a single scout from an earlier article magically becoming 'NFL Scouts' a month later. When I talk about sources, I'm talking about Spurrier or a coach, and even then I defer to tape. The exact same thing happened with Alshon Jeffery last year with people dragging a player's name through the mud over exaggerated 'red flags' despite the coaches and tape saying otherwise. Hell, an unsourced comment about Clowney with vague, non-specific references to an 'entourage' have brought out people claiming he still has too much 'hood' in him. Not you in particular, of course.

To an extent, I think a few Texans fans are hung up on how Mario turned out and are projecting that fear and resentment onto Clowney.
 
bhsman said:
To an extent, I think a few Texans fans are hung up on how Mario turned out and are projecting that fear and resentment onto Clowney.
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I read your whole thing, and I hear you on all of that. I'm only gonna quote this though.

Let it be known, I'm not a Clowney hater and it's obvious that teams are double teaming him way more now and game planning against him. I think the dude is top 5 talent, no doubt, but I just don't believe he is this game changing savior I get the feeling many make him out to be.

I just think the biggest game changer in this draft, SPECIFICALLY FOR THE TEXANS, is Teddy B. This is why I'm building him up so much and shooting down Clowney so much, even if it's unjust. I just don't think he is the right piece to the Texans horrible puzzle the way I feel Teddy B is.

As for hearing it straight from the horses mouth, you will almost NEVER hear that talk from a program with guys like Spurrier at the helm until long after his/their time at SC has past. That's not how professionals do business. One thing that most can't argue though is that generally when multiple media outlets report on their being smoke, somewhere there is fire.

Finally, as for your quote. You're damn right, I see a lot of Mario in Clowney. That's not to say Mario was bad, he was awesome, but we never took the next step with him on the field. It's time to look in a different direction and make that next step. Passing up on a potential franchise QB with the #1 pick is something I will never get behind.
 
bhsman said:
So, in sum: doing 110 on the interstate is the gateway to drugs and illegal possession of firearms, got it.
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mussop said:
Hey there's ONE "internet"report out there that suggests he has an "entourage". Couple that with the fact that he is black and Obviously the only logical conclusion is that he's a thug that has some hood in him and will no doubt get caught with drugs and an gun at some point.

Signed bOODRO87
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Ok, just completely disregard that MANY professional athletes think they can get away with breaking the law and end up getting in trouble with the law, ESPECIALLY in the NFL. The NFL actually has a black eye because of arrests. You two just keep living in your perfect little world, "Every child is a shooting star.." BS.

Oh yeah, you wanna talk how stupid this guy is? I saw the police dash cam. This guy was doing 110 on a two-lane road, at night, with people in the car. What a stand up guy.
 
I haven't said once that I want Clowney. I wouldn't hate it but I want a franchise QB if there is one in this draft. I just hate seeing the character assassination going on based on Internet RUMORS.
 
mussop said:
He's had one semi subpar year. One!
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1 subpar season? Are we talking about Mario here?

And also, what is your criteria of subpar? I, personally, have a different definition of subpar when I compare a #1 overall pick to any other DE not drafted, let's say.... top 15.

And while he was here and playing all that dude did was complain about this nagging injury or that nagging injury, it got real old. When you're the #1 pick and a physical beast, you gotta just man up.

All in all, I remember him missing 14 games (not to mention the games he left early) his final 2 years, a few subpar seasons counting his injury seasons, and a defensive liability if he couldn't make that loop move get to the QB fast enough.

I see a lot of Clowney in Mario. And I'll say it again, that's not necessarily a knock. Mario is a phenom, but I just don't want him in a Texans uniform again. The article about a few posts up was great too.
 
Texian said:
The Hype Is No Joke
But neither is Jadeveon Clowney’s subpar junior season.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/11/jadev...14/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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What injuries did Clowney suffer last yr?

He slacke off this yr to avoid injury.

I really dont want Bridgewater or Clowney. Hopefully the Texans can find a way to trade down, gather more picks and build a solid foundation for the 1st time since their inception.

In short, I dont think Bridgewater will be good enough to win a SB with. Pass
 
:kitten:
TexansFTW said:
1 subpar season? Are we talking about Mario here?

And also, what is your criteria of subpar? I, personally, have a different definition of subpar when I compare a #1 overall pick to any other DE not drafted, let's say.... top 15.

And while he was here and playing all that dude did was complain about this nagging injury or that nagging injury, it got real old. When you're the #1 pick and a physical beast, you gotta just man up.

All in all, I remember him missing 14 games (not to mention the games he left early) his final 2 years, a few subpar seasons counting his injury seasons, and a defensive liability if he couldn't make that loop move get to the QB fast enough.

I see a lot of Clowney in Mario. And I'll say it again, that's not necessarily a knock. Mario is a phenom, but I just don't want him in a Texans uniform again. The article about a few posts up was great too.
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I was talking about clowney. You're comparing him to Mario for one subpar year. And yes that article was great.
 
MMQB:The Hype Is No Joke, but neither is Jadeveon Clowney’s subpar junior season.
Greg Bedard
“I think there’s flashes of brilliance and flashes of extreme inconsistency,” an AFC general manager says of Clowney. “I mean, it’s a boom or bust thing.”
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“Bill Belichick would make a monster out of him,” says an NFC general manager, who likens Clowney’s physical attributes to those of former Patriots outside linebacker Willie McGinest, who was drafted fourth overall by Bill Parcells in 1994.

“Parcells would have loved to put [Clowney] at SAM linebacker outside and set that edge, and would have just loved this kid-the way he played, maybe not the kid himself,” adds the NFC personnel director.
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“Looking at him this year compared to last year, it seemed like last year every single play was balls to the wall, hell on wheels,” says the AFC executive. “This year, there’s a lot of plays where he comes off the ball super hard, and if the ball is away he just kind of chills and watches the play. There’s definitely going to be some questions about that.”
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“I don’t see how that is such a factor that a team would take him off their board,” says an AFC scouting director. “Yeah, he’s immature and a young kid, but you can also go against that and say when he had a chance to shut it down, he did decide to come back. I think some of that can be overblown.”
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“Does [Clowney] have all the talent in the world? Yeah,” says the AFC GM. “For people to get secure with him, it’s going to come in the interviews, the one-on-ones with teams. They’ll try to get him off the pre-scripted stuff from the agent. You have to be able to pass that smell test. Whoever drafts him is going to dig into every nook and cranny on him. And they’re going to see what’s in his soul. They’re going to see what makes him tick.”
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“He’s a man amongst boys,” says an NFC personnel director. “But he’s one of those guys that’s a Pro Bowler, or he could be a big-time bust depending on what’s on the inside. That’s what we’ll all be digging into.”
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Most important/interesting to me...
Clowney isn’t a bend-around-the edge rusher like Robert Mathis, Robert Quinn, Von Miller or Aldon Smith. He is extremely stiff in the hips, a straight-line player. That’s why, in a survey of six NFL front office executives, Clowney is viewed optimally as a 4-3 left defensive end, where he can hold the edge against the tackle and/or tight end in the run and turn it loose when needed. He’ll be especially lethal when kicked inside in sub-packages to overwhelm guards.
...
Some old-school types feel that being a strong-side outside linebacker in a two-gap system would be best for Clowney, although the use of those schemes is dwindling because of the speed in today’s game.
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Blake said:
Well said.
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The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You might have to sit him for a year but you do have the potential of a probowl caliber QB for the next decade if he does reach that potential.
If not , we'll do it again in a couple years .... with a new coach.


If you don't have a franchise QB , go get one.
 
Corrosion said:
The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You might have to sit him for a year but you do have the potential of a probowl caliber QB for the next decade if he does reach that potential.
If not , we'll do it again in a couple years .... with a new coach.


If you don't have a franchise QB , go get one.
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Well said.:ant:
 
Corrosion said:
If I cant trade down , I take Bridgewater and hope like hell he lives up to the potential.
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Agreed. Well at least until we start seeing the nitty gritty of the draft process.

I don't know if the Mario/Clowney comparisons are very fair as Mario was a complete workout warrior and was not on the radar of #1 overall until the combine. He was a great prospect and probably was going to be the first DE off the board, but until scouts/GMs saw the 6'7" 290lb dude run like a 4.5 or something crazy he wasn't in talks of going that high.

I think in terms of trading down, the best bet might be with ATL who might covet either Clowney or Matthews and have traded higher up in the draft before. If they end up with the #2 pick though, I doubt that happens.
 
I'd take Mathews over Clowney and Bridgewater. I think he'd be the safer bet of the bunch, being and olineman and a bloodline. That's IF we can't trade back. For what was looking like an awesome draft a few weeks ago sure looks like poop now
 
HOU-TEX said:
I'd take Mathews over Clowney and Bridgewater. I think he'd be the safer bet of the bunch, being and olineman and a bloodline. That's IF we can't trade back. For what was looking like an awesome draft a few weeks ago sure looks like poop now
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I'd definitely take Matthews over Clowney , Bridgewater , its still a toss up for me. I just cant decide .... IF I didn't trade back which at this point is my preference.


Yeah , with Mariota staying in school , now possibly Bridgewater ... and a few others , the top end talent sure looks a bit weak.
 
Marshall said:
We'll have to see about that now that that A{rogant}L{oumouth} Davis isn't around. Oakland might actually learn how to draft now.
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The minute Davis died they made a terrible trade getting rid of two first round draft picks for Carson Palmer. They haven't showed me that they are any different at all since he passed.
 
Corrosion said:
The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.
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You just described David Carr coming out of college.
 
Lucky said:
You just described David Carr coming out of college.
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Cant argue with that .... and probably a big part of why I struggle with taking him #1 overall. We've been down that road as Texans fans. It would be tragic to make the same mistake a second time.

Texian said:
Blake Bortles = is cool as calm as collected a Joe Montana.
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There is a lot to like about Bortles ... But Im not gonna compare any college QB to Joe Cool. I'm old enough to remember those years , four Super Bowls wins & three Super Bowl MVP's ....
 
mussop said:
Except that no one was projecting Carr as the number one pick. God was that a STUPID pick.
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Yeah it was a stupid pick or stupid handling of Carr, but the consensus was that it was going to be either Carr or Harrington going first iirc
 
Corrosion said:
There is a lot to like about Bortles ... But Im not gonna compare any college QB to Joe Cool. I'm old enough to remember those years, four Super Bowls wins & three Super Bowl MVP's ....
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I have watched 4 Bortles games this year, several games with a last possession to win scenario. I was amazed at how calm, alert and focused he always is. Nothing rattled him and in each case he delivered. Those two characteristics, being calm and collected and the ability to orchestrate a game winning drive are what reminded me (IMHO) of "Joe Cool" and the "Comeback Kid" AKA Joe Montona. I too remember Montana very well, I was sitting in the Cotton Bowl watching Joe Cool dismantle Earl Campbell and the Texas Longhorns 38-10. I'll never forget the Cotton Bowl the following year, "The Chicken Soup" game, icicles hanging from the railing and Montana scoring as time ran out to beat Houston 35-34.

On another note, Belichick said the reason they drafted Brady in the 6th round was because of the number of Brady's game winning drives. All the kid did was win. Walsh also noted the same about Montana. Bortles had 4 such games this year.
 
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Clowney has 4 sacks this year, his specialty is being a pass-rusher, and he's the consensus if not unanimous top defensive pick in this years Draft ? What did I miss ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Clowney has 4 sacks this year, his specialty is being a pass-rusher, and he's the consensus if not unanimous top defensive pick in this years Draft ? What did I miss ?
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I don't think he's unanimous by any means...
 
Brett Kollman, film guru of BattleRedBlog, makes the case for Clowney. Very interesting read, even for someone like me who watched cut-ups of Clowney's game against Tennessee, because Kollmann made the point to watch the entire game, and noted how Clowney was playing when he'd been on the field for a certain length of time, what the context of the play was (after a turnover by the Gamecock offense or whether he had been resting for 20 minutes due to a long drive) and how that affected his play.

Anyone who has questions about Clowney's "motor" or "heart" should give this a read.
 
bhsman said:
Brett Kollman, film guru of BattleRedBlog, makes the case for Clowney. Very interesting read, even for someone like me who watched cut-ups of Clowney's game against Tennessee, because Kollmann made the point to watch the entire game, and noted how Clowney was playing when he'd been on the field for a certain length of time, what the context of the play was (after a turnover by the Gamecock offense or whether he had been resting for 20 minutes due to a long drive) and how that affected his play.

Anyone who has questions about Clowney's "motor" or "heart" should give this a read.
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At the same time, that was his best game from what I saw. He doesn't always play that way.
 
TexansSeminole said:
At the same time, that was his best game from what I saw. He doesn't always play that way.
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He constantly draws double teams though?

With Watt and Clowney on the same DL running a 4-3 the pass rush would be unbelieveable for a decade. Who is currently the Texans best pass rusher other than Watt? What is it about S.Carolina players? Alshon Jeffery got the same type of rap coming out of S.Carolina. He should be in the pro bowl this yr. Same thing with Swearinger minus the pro bowl. I think the problem isn't the players. It's Spurrier.

Is Clowney a generational talent? Is he the best pass rusher in this draft by far?

Is Bridgewater a generational talent? Is Bridgewater the best QB in this draft by far?

Bototm line is Rick will be setting the franchise back for a decade if he picks Bridgewater. IMHO Glitz and glamour over substance.
 
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Corrosion said:
The kid comes with no character concerns , has size , speed , arm , accuracy ... pretty much the total package other than the level of competition and his flawed mechanics.

You might have to sit him for a year but you do have the potential of a probowl caliber QB for the next decade if he does reach that potential.
If not , we'll do it again in a couple years .... with a new coach.


If you don't have a franchise QB , go get one.
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Short Memory? He just found out he wasn't being charged with rape. Guilty or not, it's a concern.
 
TexansSeminole said:
At the same time, that was his best game from what I saw. He doesn't always play that way.
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Brett just used that game as an example because the entire thing is online and he was better able to make his point about the context of plays when discussing Clowney's effort or lack thereof.
 
"Jadevon Clowney is Albert Haynesworth with a better first step." @ClayTravisBGID, after discussing on-field effort
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Ouch.
smiley_blackeye.gif
 
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