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4th round Trevardo Williams De/OLB
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Is that who he was talking about? Greene and Hodges also went right before Williams.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From Texans director of college scouting Mike Maccagnan:
Scout's Take: Maccagnan on OLB Trevardo Williams
Scout's Take: Maccagnan on OLB Trevardo Williams
I think his biggest problem is that he has just about no pass rush moves. He plays the run pretty good but I don't see him doing anything like this... just go to 4:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVtju56nqzE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVtju56nqzE
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
Travis Long hasn't even been picked up by a team..
That is not what I am getting at. Point is that Long shows the ability to set up his guy to the inside and then put a pass rush move on the him, something Williams does not do. Williams has a much higher celing but has yet to develop just about any moves IMO due to poor coaching. Also watch the play in regular speed right before 4:40 and the play after. Long lacks athleticism and probably won't get much better but has some good moves. Williams IMO has the strength, more than Long but appears to get swollowed up because after his speed move he has nothing left in his arsenal so he puts both his hands in the OL' s chest.
I don't know if it's so much about "technique" & pass-rush "moves"
When I look at CMIII, Bloodline, I don't think "moves" or "technique"
I think more jeet kune do. Form without form. He maintains ball awareness, then he's got the burst & quickness to get to the ball.
When I look at CMIII, Bloodline, I don't think "moves" or "technique"
I think more jeet kune do. Form without form. He maintains ball awareness, then he's got the burst & quickness to get to the ball.
You are right, when he identifies the run he maintains good awareness and does a good job of shedding the lineman and getting in on the tackle. That is why I think he has more strength that a lot of the scouting reports suggest.
The problem is that he does the same thing in thing after his initial outside or inside speed rush is negated due to his lack of countermoves. On his tape he will juke the OL some of the time, not much, when he realizes his initial move is beat but that will not work at the pro level if it is not combined with proper hand usage. He does maintain awareness after his initial speed move is negated but needs to develop more pass rush moves and better hand usage (bad coaching). I believe he will with some good coaching, and when he does he could be really good because the talent is there in spades.
Watch 4:32 to 4:52 in this video. It is of the less talented Travis Long who has some pass rush moves. Too bad he is not very athletic. If Williams had displayed these moves on tape he would not have lasted until the 4th round. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVtju56nqzE
Personally I think he will be a holy terror once he has a better pass rush repertoire.
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b0ng
Bad Hombre
This pick is a lot more intriguing seeing as how through mini-camps and the first few days of OTA's it appears that the coaches believe that Williams is ahead of 3rd rounder Sam Montgomery. I won't say that the OLB position is in shambles, but there is quite a bit of inexperience (But losing two OLB's to high priced contracts will do that) and that is always worrisome.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I asked him about simultaneously becoming friends with and competing against Montgomery.
“He’s playing a different position now, he’s on the Will, I’m on the Sam,” Williams said. “We both compete in pass rushing, but other than that he’s basically working on honing his skills on that side of the field while I’m working on dropping back.”
"It’s taking some time, a gradual change,” Williams said of starting plays off the line of scrimmage, standing up. “I don’t think it’s completely different than a three-point stance. It takes a lot of balance and building habits. I don’t feel it’ll be a problem, I’ll be practicing it over the next several weeks …
“The big difference is the initial attack. Usually in a three-point stance you have a more explosive attack. In a two-point stance you’re required to use a little more technique, using your arms and your footwork. It needs to be more coordinated. It’s not difficult.”
entire article http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/51063/two-rookie-lbs-not-at-same-spot-for-texans
“He’s playing a different position now, he’s on the Will, I’m on the Sam,” Williams said. “We both compete in pass rushing, but other than that he’s basically working on honing his skills on that side of the field while I’m working on dropping back.”
"It’s taking some time, a gradual change,” Williams said of starting plays off the line of scrimmage, standing up. “I don’t think it’s completely different than a three-point stance. It takes a lot of balance and building habits. I don’t feel it’ll be a problem, I’ll be practicing it over the next several weeks …
“The big difference is the initial attack. Usually in a three-point stance you have a more explosive attack. In a two-point stance you’re required to use a little more technique, using your arms and your footwork. It needs to be more coordinated. It’s not difficult.”
entire article http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/51063/two-rookie-lbs-not-at-same-spot-for-texans
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I'm confused.
I thought Montgomery was the SAM and Williams was the Will.
I thought Montgomery was the SAM and Williams was the Will.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Hopefully you are the one who is confused, and Trevardo is the one with a handle on things. For it to be the other way around would be a bad thing.
GoCoogs
Waterboy
I thought Herring said he was going to start Montgomery at SAM, then later teach him the Will. Maybe they're switching it up for TC.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
They'd been saying that Montgomery was going to be the Sam because he could hold the point of attack against the tight ends and be more of a force against the run while Williams, as more of a speed guy, would work on the weak side. At least, that's what I thought I'd heard Herring and Wade say... but... I guess I was wrong.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
So Sam is not the SAM, and Will is not the Will.
But who is on first?
No.
Who is on Second.
I think of SAM & WILL as the OLB positions in the more conventional 4-3 defense, while with Wade's defense it's very much a hybrid defense with a 3-4 alignment sometimes but others with one or both of the OLBs actually assuming 3-point stances. But because of his greater size and strength it's easy to assume that Montgomery is more suited as the SAM type to be over the TE.
drs23
Veteran
It's true Wade's 3-4 isn't your run-of-the-mill 3-4. His is a one gap system & it looks more like a 4-3
This is one of those formations you're talking about with one OLB in a 3 point stance & the other standing up.
I wish there were defensive guys here who could explain the whats & the whys of the different formations we use.
Why is Meci Standing up? He's going to rush the passer, we know he's going to rush the passer, why not let him explode out of a 3 point stance?
IMO, Wade still uses a fairly standard definition of Will and Sam at the OLB positions. The biggest difference is that the Will OLB will line up on the LT more often than the RT, unless it's a left handed QB, and will mostly be used as a pass rusher but will still have to maintain containment on the end. I could very well be wrong, though.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's true Wade's 3-4 isn't your run-of-the-mill 3-4. His is a one gap system & it looks more like a 4-3
This is one of those formations you're talking about with one OLB in a 3 point stance & the other standing up.
I wish there were defensive guys here who could explain the whats & the whys of the different formations we use.
Why is Meci Standing up? He's going to rush the passer, we know he's going to rush the passer, why not let him explode out of a 3 point stance?
I'm not a defensive guru but... my guess is that he's making it look like he might take the RB in coverage.
They appear to be in a dime with Quin taking the spot of the other ILB. Normally in that situation, I'd expect Mercilus to have his hand down. BUT... he may actually have coverage responsibilities OR he may just be acting like he does to try to confuse the QB or the RB to bust the blocking scheme.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It all depends on the TE. If the TE is on the right, the Sam will be on the right and the Will on the left; if the TE is on the left, the Sam will be on the left and the Will on the right.
And this is one of the problems with our defensive scheme. If the offense shifts and moves the TE from one side to another, our entire defensive line and OLBs have to swap positions. That takes time and energy. And both the Packers and the Patriots took advantage of that to grind our guys down and get them out of position.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
It's true Wade's 3-4 isn't your run-of-the-mill 3-4. His is a one gap system & it looks more like a 4-3
This is one of those formations you're talking about with one OLB in a 3 point stance & the other standing up.
I wish there were defensive guys here who could explain the whats & the whys of the different formations we use.
Why is Meci Standing up? He's going to rush the passer, we know he's going to rush the passer, why not let him explode out of a 3 point stance?
Plenty of great pass rushers have done perfectly well doing it from a 2 point stance.
To me I thought Williams was the speed guy/pass rush type on the weak side and Montgomery was the clean-up strongman on the strong side. Who knows.
No, Who is on first.
What is on second.
I don't know is on third.
...back to football.
Don't need and probably shouldn't use "right" or "left" in the explanation because it can be confusing when people ask what side of los you mean ? Just say that the SAM is over or across from the TE and the WIL is on the other end. But obviously that's a simple offensive formation, because so many teams (like the Texans) run multiple TE sets these days. Then there's the "MIKE" which is the middle LB and implies that the these 3 acronyms were meant for the 4-3 and not 3-4, strictly speaking.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I used the right and left because of the message I was responding to. I was trying to show that the Sam and Will aren't connected to Right and Left.
And you agreed with me.
Lots of teams also move that TE around to see what the defense is doing, or to try to force a player into coverage. Even back in the pre Wade days, our LBs didn't flop sides if the TE changed sides at the LOS (if he was put in motion). The Will becomes the SAM, the SAM becomes the Will. The Mike becomes the MO & the Mo becomes the Mike.
drs23
Veteran
That happened "in the pre Wade days"? I din't think we had Mo's back then running the 4/3.
Or did I misunderstand your point?
That happened "in the pre Wade days"? I din't think we had Mo's back then running the 4/3.
Or did I misunderstand your point?
You caught me.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I expected you to go pre-Kubiak.
drs23
Veteran
IIRC he needed to learn the position, more aggression and sand in his pants.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Personally, and I've said this before, I think he should be given a shot at ILB. He has the speed and size of an ILB and I think he'd be a better fit than Reed or anyone else we currently have on the roster.
Maybe I'm missing something, but he should've gotten the shot to play inside instead of Tuggle
Maybe I'm missing something, but he should've gotten the shot to play inside instead of Tuggle
Trevardo will get killed inside where he will be forced to take on blocks.
His best bet is to stay outside and get stronger.
Trevardo inside would mean gaping holes in the run game. He'd get completely wiped out of plays.
Hopefully he spent all off season eating and lifting and running.
Reed is a much better option inside since he can take on blocks an not get pushed 20 yards down the field like Trevardo did by 3rd string linemen in the pre season. I think in Crennels 34 Reed is actually a pretty good fit inside...I think in Wade's 34 he'd have been asked to do too much.
His best bet is to stay outside and get stronger.
Trevardo inside would mean gaping holes in the run game. He'd get completely wiped out of plays.
Hopefully he spent all off season eating and lifting and running.
Reed is a much better option inside since he can take on blocks an not get pushed 20 yards down the field like Trevardo did by 3rd string linemen in the pre season. I think in Crennels 34 Reed is actually a pretty good fit inside...I think in Wade's 34 he'd have been asked to do too much.
His best bet is to drop a few pounds & try to learn the safety position.
Long shot, but he's too small to play OLB or ILB for Crennel.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Trevardo Williams 6'1" 241 lbs
Roman Phifer 6'2" 248 lbs OLB (4-3)
Teddy Bruschi 6'2" 247 lbs ILB
D'Qwell Jackson 6' 230 lbs ILB
Ben Taylor 6'2" 245 lbs ILB
Matt Stewart 6'3" 232 lbs OLB
Kamerion Wimbley 6'3" 245 lbs OLB
Derrick Johnson 6'3" 242 lbs ILB
Jovan Belcher 6'2" 228 lbs
Would appear he isn't out of line for a Crennel LB or at least is a whole hell of a lot closer than safety.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Yep transition from DE in college to OLB in the NFL. There would need to be some concern about durability if consideration for ILB is given. Williams injured his ankle early on during preparations for the Senior Bowl. He was unable to play in the game . Williams' tender ankle did not seem to stop him from impressing at the combine, where he led all defensive linemen a time of 4.57 seconds in the 40 and a 38-inch vertical jump. Though, when it came time for Williams to work out for scouts again at UConn's Pro day, issues with both his groin and his back limited his ability to post the times he wanted to in the agility drills. Then he went on to sustain a re-injury of his ankle in the preseason that led to the IR. A conversion could occur to ILB, but he will be exposed to potentially greater trauma. I'd be happy if he could stay healthy at OLB.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I see Williams as a pass rushing specialist at OLB. He doesn't have the size to be an every down player, but he has all the skills necessary to be an edge rusher. I think he would have been better suited being drafted by a 4-3 team and being a Von Miller or Bruce Irvin type passing rushing SLB.
He might have put on 5-10 Lbs in the yr since we've seen him. At 6'1 245/250 he should be big enough to play ILB. Do you think he can cover RB's/TE's ?
I do worry about his ankle injuries playing ILB. Once you've hurt your same ankle more than once it's never the same. I know this from personal experience.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Athletically he should be capable of covering RB's/TE's but doesn't have a whole lot of experience doing so. However, I think his skill set is better suited for edge rushing than for taking on blocks in the middle. I don't know why you would draft a guy with that kind of pass rush ability and move him inside.
Brooks Reed is the guy who should move inside. Williams had more TFL and sacks in his last 2 years of college than Reed had in his entire career. Williams is more explosive and, despite Reed's size advantage, they have the same arm length. Williams brings more to the table as an edge rusher and Reed's bulk would be a better fit for the pounding it will take at ILB.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Look Doc, don't give us all that medical jibber-jabber! Just tell us what we all really need to know...
"Can Trevardo Williams fill that gaping hole in the training room that Daryl Sharpton's departure has left the 2014 Texans with?"
michaelm
vox nihili
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The "medical Jibber-jabber" in my post that you speak of is an injury history and is there for those that are usually interested in what the basis for my conclusions are. If you read my post again, you will see that I DID answer your question. Daryl Sharpton is an ILB.
Another way I could answer your question..........Yes, Williiams could probably serve as an excellent ILB replacement for Sharpton on the Texans' weekly Injury Reports.