Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Quess was my other "wish" pick for the draft. I think the guy has the right makeup. Had some technique issues, but held his own against the best in the draft.
When you say "too big", is that just physically or something else?
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Texans OTAs thread (5/20-21, 23, 28-30, 6/3-6).
- Thread starter b0ng
- Start date
Quess was my other "wish" pick for the draft. I think the guy has the right makeup. Had some technique issues, but held his own against the best in the draft.
When you say "too big", is that just physically or something else?
If that's the case then .... this makes sense. Someone has to snap the ball ....
Aint that the truth ....
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Physically. He looks bigger than the guys he is lined up with, mix of 2nd/3rd string guys usually. He was bigger than I expected just based on what I had read up on him before he showed up.
I remember watching Winston in a preseasson game his rookie year and thinking that he looked like the bigger kid than the rest, sort of like when you are watching pee-wee football, and certain kids just stick out because they are just growed a little more.
Speaking of size differences. Seeing Brandon Brooks lined up next to Chris Myers is almost funny. Brooks is beastly big. Myers isn't a tiny dude by real people standards, but Brooks looks crazy thick. Those legs.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Brandon's got the biggest lower legs I think I've ever seen. Cankle-ist of cankles.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In the only study ever reported in NFL players with ruptured Achilles tendons, DTs and DEs had the lowest power rating drop offs of all positions. These were listed at 65% and 55% decrease, respectively. As I've stated in the past, this study had its limitations and the decreases are probably less today because of a combination of improved surgical repair techniques and rehab protocols, but still relatively high. And those that don't return at all to play in a regular season game, although quoted in the study at 31%, that number still has not probably dropped today below 25%. We unfortunately will not learn much of anything as to what Jamison has to offer or not before the season begins.
I think the best place for Ben Jones to learn Myers' position is on the field, on Myers' right.
He sees what Chris sees & he's playing against NFL #1s. I'd rather that, than to go through growing pains with a 4 year vet learning how to play against NFL 1st line defenses.
Kind of man-among-boys thing?
Tbh, I want jones and Williams fighting it out for the LG position next year.
I think a line-up of:
Brown
Jones/Williams
Myers
Brooks
Quess
Has a chance to be sick.
And if Meyers moves on when his deal is up:
Brown
Williams
Jones
Brooks
Quess
That would be my ideal scenario at this point.
painekiller
All Pro
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
From people who do charting, I've been told that from 2006-2011, the Texans were more of a right-handed running team. But that in 2012, the Texans ran more to the left.
I am guessing that is more due to personnel issues.
Where are you getting the left side being the "power" side? Most teams put their more athletic linemen on the left and the more move bodies type of guys on the right.
The guys on the left are generally facing more athletic defenders like the weak olb or weak side DE. And the guys on the right more often have the TE on their side which means they'll be facing the run stopping defenders.
Teams generally run more to the right which is the side the TE lines up on more often. Generally. There's always exceptions, but for the most part you will see the better run blockers on the right and the more athletic/better pass blockers on the left.
I think quess is going to win the RT job at some point. And IMO he's the best fit for that position. I don't think he's a guard at all. He has tackle written all over him.
First let me say thanks for your OTA coverage T_C, because for whatever reason it seemed that media access to that aspect of Texans' offseason training this year was more limited than usual and appreciate that you got out info about the sessions.
Now re Quessenberry, I'm still puzzled that he was not drafted until the 6th round because I watched the SenBowl TV coverage of him in practice from Mobile, and he was very impressive and got raves from many including Draft guru Mayoc. And the guy was a multi year LT starter in college, so he can pass-block and with his athleticism (another X-TE) should be a good fit for the Texans ZBS. Would have thought he would be more of a 3rd - 4th round
pick ?
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
It is way too early to analyze future Olines. Or even predict this year's.
The violent nature of the sport often dictates this sort of thing. It did last year. It may this year. The football gods can be brutal.
The violent nature of the sport often dictates this sort of thing. It did last year. It may this year. The football gods can be brutal.
I've no doubt in my mind that Wade Smith (in 2010) was a better run blocker & pass blocker than Mike Briesel. No doubt in my mind that he was (in 2010) less athletic yet stronger.
Though we saw Wade Smith pull & wrap around the RT from time to time, Briesel was the more athletic of the two.
For all I know, that's what we ran with, because that's what Kubiak had. He may've been dreaming of two Wade Smith's this whole time. But I like the idea of having the versatility of having a guy like Briesel/Ben Jones on Myers' right side.
This would be a risky OL, but here's what I would do at the end of TC, if I saw Williams was healthy and playing well and Quessenberry could be an above avg backup.
Brown, Brooks, Myers, Jones, Williams
Quessenberry would be the main backup and with the $$$$$ saved from cutting W.Smith I would sign Casey Hampton. The risk is that the OL would be real young.
Brown, Brooks, Myers, Jones, Williams
Quessenberry would be the main backup and with the $$$$$ saved from cutting W.Smith I would sign Casey Hampton. The risk is that the OL would be real young.
deucetx
Rookie
I'm with TC on not worrying about predicting the line at this point. With the injuries, young players that are still unknowns during their development it seems a rather large crap shoot.
But in regards to the power side of the line, Rey is correct. It is generally universal that the right side is your strong side of the line. One, defenses line up their stronger run defenders on that side and those tend to be their strongest, biggest as well. Two, running backs have a comfort level going to their right (right handed ones at least). Three, the left side is generally more athletic due to the fact they will usually face the best pass rushers from the opposition.
Not sure, Thunder, why you thought Brisiel was more athletic than Smith. In categories they were tested Smith beat out Brisiel's numbers in all of them. Meaning 40, 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone, broad jump, vertical, etc. He's the more athletic of the two. And in 2010 Brisiel graded to be a better run blocker than Smith and we ran it +17 times at the RG compared to LG.
This is why Jones struggled. His strength is not developed yet to face the stronger DT's on that side. On the left you would face the quicker, 3-tech guys and have to be quick/athletic enough to deal with that and the stunts defensive coaches like to do with those type of players. Right side not as much.
But in regards to the power side of the line, Rey is correct. It is generally universal that the right side is your strong side of the line. One, defenses line up their stronger run defenders on that side and those tend to be their strongest, biggest as well. Two, running backs have a comfort level going to their right (right handed ones at least). Three, the left side is generally more athletic due to the fact they will usually face the best pass rushers from the opposition.
Not sure, Thunder, why you thought Brisiel was more athletic than Smith. In categories they were tested Smith beat out Brisiel's numbers in all of them. Meaning 40, 20 yard shuttle, 3 cone, broad jump, vertical, etc. He's the more athletic of the two. And in 2010 Brisiel graded to be a better run blocker than Smith and we ran it +17 times at the RG compared to LG.
This is why Jones struggled. His strength is not developed yet to face the stronger DT's on that side. On the left you would face the quicker, 3-tech guys and have to be quick/athletic enough to deal with that and the stunts defensive coaches like to do with those type of players. Right side not as much.
Risky for sure, because we have no idea how the gimpy Williams will play. But if he does earn that spot over Newton, that's great.
I think we focused too much on the right side of the line last year. The rotations & young players was a big part of that. But I think it took too much attention away from what was happening on the left side. Duane had a really good year, but we didn't see any of the dominating performances he spoiled us with in 2010 & 2011.
I don't think anyway. I don't think it's a cause for much concern, just mentioning, that's all.
Wade Smith, though he played better in 2012 than he did in 2011 I think he was far, far away from what we should expect on this line. He's declining. Specifically in the run game, still a fine pass blocker, but in the run game, we need to get better.
I didn't see Brandon Brooks play better in 2012, but I did see damn fine play & the foundation to be a better player in 2013.
I saw a starter in Ben Jones. A starter at RG. But most of us are looking at our line as if we only need to figure out RG & RT.
I agree with you steelb, we need to figure out LG, RG, & RT
Isn't this the same guy who just came off of his last season in the last 6 - 10 months in college missing a significant part of the season because of injury ?
If Brennan Williams is the RT this year, back up QB will be a whole lot more important because Schaub would get killed.
Not sure what you guys are talking about...But RG is pretty much sewn up. That's Brandon Brooks spot.
The positions in Question are RT for this season and LG for future seasons.
Not sure what you guys are talking about...But RG is pretty much sewn up. That's Brandon Brooks spot.
The positions in Question are RT for this season and LG for future seasons.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I think that THIS is what Kubiak is hoping, at least for the future:
Brown - Quessenberry - Myers - Brooks - Newton/Williams
Quess may or may not beat out Smith this year but I think he's the future at the LG spot... unless he does a great job at RT because Newton/Williams/Harris can't stay healthy. If that happens, then he could be hard to get out of that RT spot.
From what I've seen from Quess, I think he'd make a great RT but early on at the OTAs, they had him at LG.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Imo, we're in trouble at RT no matter what. Newton's not healthy and was below average when he was healthy. Quess is a rookie from a small school that has a lot of upside. Williams is a rookie who has only been on the field a couple hours since he's been here. To me, going into camp, RT is Harris' job to lose. And, unless he's vastly improved, it makes me cringe
*BTW, I was just piggy-backin your post. I agree with your comments
I think Quess has a good chance of winning the RT spot this year. I don't know how Mondek or the other guy have progressed though, so I can't really say.
What I do know though is that Newton and Williams are both hurt and Williams had quite a few awful moments in pass protection in college.
I don't think Kubiak has any expectations like that. I think he drafts guys he likes and lets things sort themselves out. I think he had mentioned Brandon Brooks as a tackle at one point last year. Ben Jones got a lot og Reps at RG last year.
I believe he tries guys in different spots to see where they fit well. I don't think he's really set on any one thing unless he just believes a guy flat out can't do something.
I agree with that. I don't know how much it's going to adversely affect us, but right now RT is definitely the weak link. Not that we know Brooks is going to be a beast at RG, but just the nature of the position and the fact that Brooks played well at the end of last year makes me feel a little better about him at RG than ???? at RT.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Agreed! And if it weren't for a few MAs he would've been really good. I think he's going to take a huge step this season and be the full time starter. I can't stand it when Kubiak has a rotation going with an oline position. Especially running the ZBS where the oline works as one.
No more rotations, please! Choose your RT in camp and go with him
We started last season with Caldwell at RG & Butler at RT. When they both got hurt, our depth suddenly dissipated. Ben Jones surprised everyone & started early. However, like all young players struggled to maintain focus & perform at his best down after down, series after series.
The rotation had nothing to do with not being able to decide on who he wanted his RG or RT to be. It was about maintaining a level of consistency of play.
To me, it doesn't make sense to "waste" a year (2012) on getting one player ready. We know there's going to be a drop off when we bring a new player into the line, unless we get a blue chip player, which isn't going to happen [for one, we'll never select in the top 10 again, :fingers crossed:] then waste another (2013) year to bring someone in at LG. Get them both up to speed in 2012 & kick some doors in in 2013.
I think Ben Jones will be our RG, he did a good job at that position for a rookie. Brandon Brooks will be our LG.
drs23
Veteran
I didn't try to find the quote but Kubiak said during OTAs that Brandon Brooks was the starting RG. When did that change? I haven't heard nor read about it.
At the time, I'm sure that was true. No Ben Jones, someone has to play RG. Reporters are going to ask stupid questions, he answers the most economic way possible.
We'll see who the starting RG is come week one.
PreSeason may not tell us a lot either. Remember before 2010, Wade Smith played with the second group as much as the first. We didn't know he was our starting LG until Game 1.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Not sure what you're talking about - I'm pretty certain Ben Jones fully participated in all OTA's
TK, I think you are waaaaay off base.
Brooks is the starting RG. He'll be the starting RG.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Honestly, I don't agree with one thing you stated here. Caldwell and Jones were both getting time at RG before Caldwell's injury. Butler lost the RT job to Newton before Butler's injury. Harris was then signed and the rotation began shortly thereafter. I like Jones as our future center, but he was very bad while at RG so I'm not sure what you're watching.
I don't know if TK remembers, but that whole right side was up for competition all rhrough camp and pre season.
It had looked like Newton beat Butler out towards the end of pre season. I believe Butler got hurt playing with the back ups and guys that weren't going to make the team.
I don't ever remember guys being entrenched over there last season.
deucetx
Rookie
Yeah just like you and HOU stated. Butler got injured in the final preseason game but Newton was named the starter after the third game. It added up to being one horrible week for Butler. First you lose the starting job then you get injured. :vincepalm:
Jones began splitting with Caldwell in week 2 after Kubiak stated he was not happy with the running production against the Dolphins in game 1.
I'm pretty sure he's playing center with the second team.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
As Kubiak has discussed in quotes, Brandon Brooks working as starting RG throughout OTAs. Wade Smith on other side.
With vets being out today because they aren't doing on the field time during minicamp, Kubiak said nice things about Quessenberry after I asked a question about him. He is working at RT.
He said Brennan Williams had a knee clean out thing (non-specified but we knew that) and isn't expected before training camp. Really wants him to work on his conditioning.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Because that's what they do in OTA's with the player they intend to be starting RG?
Why not, you've got your starting OLB playing Mo.......
Jones was the scout team center much of last season ... also I was told that he played some center in the OTA's when the veterans were rested.
Because of injuries/guys missing...
And also the fact that he could end up actually starting there. And they can afford to do that because he's gotten a lot of experience at OLB and they feel like if he has to go back there, he won't miss a beat.
The situation is completely different.
So the knee tweak that didn't need surgery ended up needing surgery?
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
So the knee tweak that didn't need surgery ended up needing surgery?
Williams mentioned the clean out stuff last week. Kubiak confirmed today but was totally non-specific because he didn't know specifics.
sigh....this kind of stuff gets old. It's almost like Kubes is trying to be a baby Belichik. Just report what there is to report, especially at this time of year.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
So the knee tweak that didn't need surgery ended up needing surgery?
Remember, following the evaluation of Williams, Kubiak reported that his "injury which will not require surgery" and I posted that was skeptical of the extent of the injury, especially after he did not return quickly for OTAs? Logic and experience has primed me to anticipate situations just like this. My injury posts may appear cynical to some, but they are based on available facts and what the natural progression and realistic prognosis of the apparent injuries are most likely to be.........with a tincture of repeated "minor injuries, " minor surgeries," and "ahead of schedule" dancing in the back of my head.........at the same time trying to avoid the fool's paradise that I may want to experience as a fan.
When a player earns all-conference honors from coaches in a league as talented as the ACC despite missing half of the season, it is pretty fair indication that NFL scouts should be paying attention.
That is precisely the scenario with UNC's Williams, who missed the final four games of his senior season with a torn labrum which required surgery but still managed to earn honorable mention accolades from league coaches.
Williams became a full-time starter last season as a junior in Chapel Hill and started the first eight games of the 2012 campaign. He finished his collegiate career with 22 career starts, all coming at right tackle.
Williams' father, Brent, had an 11-year NFL career (1986-1993) at defensive end, spending time with the New England Patriots, Seattle Seahawks and New York Jets. Normally the recovery time from labrum surgery is anywhere from two-to-six months depending on the severity of the tear, which could potentially keep Williams out of some pre-draft workouts.
Blessed with great size and athleticism, Williams' injury may keep him from garnering the attention of other talented offensive tackles in the 2013 draft class from media but rest assured that NFL scouts know his name well and will be keeping close tabs on his recovery.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664351/brennan-williams
***
Clearly talented, but just as clearly injury-prone, getting healthy and then in condition to play appear to be a big challenge for this guy as we head towards the start of training-camp beginning late next month.
That is precisely the scenario with UNC's Williams, who missed the final four games of his senior season with a torn labrum which required surgery but still managed to earn honorable mention accolades from league coaches.
Williams became a full-time starter last season as a junior in Chapel Hill and started the first eight games of the 2012 campaign. He finished his collegiate career with 22 career starts, all coming at right tackle.
Williams' father, Brent, had an 11-year NFL career (1986-1993) at defensive end, spending time with the New England Patriots, Seattle Seahawks and New York Jets. Normally the recovery time from labrum surgery is anywhere from two-to-six months depending on the severity of the tear, which could potentially keep Williams out of some pre-draft workouts.
Blessed with great size and athleticism, Williams' injury may keep him from garnering the attention of other talented offensive tackles in the 2013 draft class from media but rest assured that NFL scouts know his name well and will be keeping close tabs on his recovery.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664351/brennan-williams
***
Clearly talented, but just as clearly injury-prone, getting healthy and then in condition to play appear to be a big challenge for this guy as we head towards the start of training-camp beginning late next month.
You just need to keep posting what you post, Dr. You're excellent at it and an absolute boon to Texans fans. If there was a "Most Important Fan" category, you'd be the perennial winner.
As a veteran of many surgeries, I definitely defer to the "only minor surgery is one you don't have" school of thought. I'm 43 and almost a cripple on some days.
God bless you for all you do, CND.
