Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!

[Double Barrel]

And to think I thought the best word to describe those that regurgitate another's thoughts w/out offering their own to the subject would be "simpleton".

In your mind, you're right, Skippy.

I did not know you were so sensitive as to be unable to handle basic critical analysis. You were clearly being obtuse. It's not an insult but rather an adjective.

Your constant attempts to build weak strawman arguments failed, and now you whine about it. How about trying to read what others write before engaging your desire to argue about things never said?

Are you one of the HT.com rejects? You sure act like it in this thread.

 

[Mr teX]

Thoughts.

Clearly better? no. Ponder's numbers don't look all that much better than Jackson's the year he started the majority of games at qb for the vikes... That's not how i meant my comment anyway. i meant the jury is still out on whether or not Ponder is the long term answer they thought he could be when they drafted him.

 

[Vance87]

Are you one of the HT.com rejects? You sure act like it in this thread.

Pump your brakes kid, I post on both forums, I'm not a reject. Although tru can be quite argumentative on both forums, maybe he's just an idealist.

 

[Double Barrel]

Pump your brakes kid, I post on both forums, I'm not a reject. Although tru can be quite argumentative on both forums, maybe he's just an idealist.

lol @ "kid". Old enough to be your dad, sonny boy.

I'm not stereotyping everyone at HT.com. But, it has been quite clear that they have lower standards than TT.com. Remember, we know that forum well, since we used to mod it, admins over here built it, and the entire history of that forum migrated to Texans Talk. I was a mod over there for awhile after the migration until I got tired of wading in the piss of the kiddie pool. Maybe it's changed since then...

And yeah, I've got it on good authority that he's a reject from HT.com. He's been kicked over there so tries his routine over here. Give him enough rope and he thinks he's a cowboy. Yeeehaw.

He can 'simpleton' me all he wants. His opinion is meaningless to me. The next time I care about what he has to say about anything will be the first time. I'll be surprised if he's even here by football season, so I have no desire to give respect when it's undeserved.

 

[Vance87]

lol @ "kid". Old enough to be your dad, sonny boy.

I'm not stereotyping everyone at HT.com. But, it has been quite clear that they have lower standards than TT.com. Remember, we know that forum well, since we used to mod it, admins over here built it, and the entire history of that forum migrated to Texans Talk. I was a mod over there for awhile after the migration until I got tired of wading in the piss of the kiddie pool. Maybe it's changed since then...

And yeah, I've got it on good authority that he's a reject from HT.com. He's been kicked over there so tries his routine over here. Give him enough rope and he thinks he's a cowboy. Yeeehaw.

He can 'simpleton' me all he wants. His opinion is meaningless to me. The next time I care about what he has to say about anything will be the first time. I'll be surprised if he's even here by football season, so I have no desire to give respect when it's undeserved.

That line was a quote from a movie...get with it old man!

 

[Rey]

Seth Payne just mentioned Infantrycak (called him "Infantry C-A-K....whatever that means") because of the blurb in Texans chick's article which gave stats and analysis of Matt Schaub's deep throws in comparison to other QB's. He basically said that different offenses lend themselves to the deep ball more. He said Schaub could throw the deep ball ok, but it wasn't a strength of his game and this Shannahan style bootleg offense lends itself to high percentage deep balls but not a high frequency of them being throw...Which is pretty much exactly what I said a while back...

Not that Seth nor I are the be all end all, but I really just though it was cool that Cak got that mention based on TC's article...

 

[tru80texan]

In your mind, you're right, Skippy.

I did not know you were so sensitive as to be unable to handle basic critical analysis. You were clearly being obtuse. It's not an insult but rather an adjective.

Your constant attempts to build weak strawman arguments failed, and now you whine about it. How about trying to read what others write before engaging your desire to argue about things never said?

Are you one of the HT.com rejects? You sure act like it in this thread.

lol @ "kid". Old enough to be your dad, sonny boy.

I'm not stereotyping everyone at HT.com. But, it has been quite clear that they have lower standards than TT.com. Remember, we know that forum well, since we used to mod it, admins over here built it, and the entire history of that forum migrated to Texans Talk. I was a mod over there for awhile after the migration until I got tired of wading in the piss of the kiddie pool. Maybe it's changed since then...

And yeah, I've got it on good authority that he's a reject from HT.com. He's been kicked over there so tries his routine over here. Give him enough rope and he thinks he's a cowboy. Yeeehaw.

He can 'simpleton' me all he wants. His opinion is meaningless to me. The next time I care about what he has to say about anything will be the first time. I'll be surprised if he's even here by football season, so I have no desire to give respect when it's undeserved.

OBTUSE:
Adjective
Annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
Difficult to understand.

How is the above not considered an insult? Looks like a weak attempt as an insult towards me simply based on my disbelief of the theory that an unreported injury was the sole cause of Schaub's poor performances. A belief that others on here have expressed as well, but yet I'm the one who is being considered "obtuse" in your opinion. I'm simply stating facts when is say nothing has supported such a thought & repeating it & believing it seems a bit far fetched at this time. If I'm the one dealing in facts then it seems your use of "obtuse" seems inaccurate & being used for the wrong side of the debate to say the least.

I realize the TT "brotherhood" is strong amongst some of y'all, but the silly pissing matches that consist of insults seems a bit childish simply because we have a difference in opinions on a subject that is obviously highly debatable. I haven't complained or whined, as you falsey proclaimed, about those that didn't agree w/ me, all I have done is stated my case & the information I have to support my belief. A belief I might add that others members have agreed with.

I understand I am new to this site, but that doesn't mean that I can't express my opinions about the Texans because it isn't inline w/ the TT "brotherhood". I have enjoyed the conversations here & admit some of them go a bit deeper then those on HT.com, which is one aspect that I appreciate about TT, but assuming & acting as if the opinions of long time members are the only ones that are correct seems a bit shortsighted. Honestly, I'm not concerned w/ your opinion about my thoughts because I put no more credit into yours then you do into mine, but I would hope that we could end our disagreements w/ a simple "agree to disagree" w/out this back & forth pissing match stuff because it is weak, tiresome, & juvenile. I do apologize to the other members for engaging in this one for so long as it is obvious many of y'all will stick together regardless & I too will not change my mind. So I simply say...I politely agree to disagree w/ you.

As far as being an HT.com reject, that is incorrect to some degree. Did I receive a timeout from HT.com...yes, but I admitted that here so it was wasn't top secret nor did you need to go to your "insider" to obtain that info. You have zero details or knowledge concerning the situation, so i will leave it at that. I do thank you for having enough interest in me to discuss me w/ others outside of this MB though. And to think I thought you thought I was meaningless... Have a nice day!

 

[Texn4life]

I'm only going to say that I understand why people feel like Schaub was hurting or injured at the end of the year, and I understand why people would have doubts about any injury and just feel like he was playing poorly. I don't see what the big deal is honestly.

 

[Lucky]

I don't see what the big deal is honestly.

It's really not. No matter what reasons there were for Schaub's late season play, he has to play better in 2013 for the Texans to be title contenders. He doesn't have to be Tom Brady or Drew Brees. The Matt Schaub of 2009-mid 2012 would be OK.

 

[Double Barrel]

OBTUSE:
Adjective
Annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
Difficult to understand.

How is the above not considered an insult? Looks like a weak attempt as an insult towards me simply based on my disbelief of the theory that an unreported injury was the sole cause of Schaub's poor performances. A belief that others on here have expressed as well, but yet I'm the one who is being considered "obtuse" in your opinion. I'm simply stating facts when is say nothing has supported such a thought & repeating it & believing it seems a bit far fetched at this time. If I'm the one dealing in facts then it seems your use of "obtuse" seems inaccurate & being used for the wrong side of the debate to say the least.

*sigh*

Alright, I'm going to waste a few minutes of my time here...

My description of your attitude was not meant to insult you. You are free to take it that way, but that was not my intention.

The point of the use of the word "obtuse" was very specific. You seem either unable or unwilling to comprehend what others are telling you.

Nobody is claiming ultimate insider knowledge of this organization. However, if you took the time to actually comprehend the knowledge and information being presented here by very qualified people, you might have a pleasant conversation. Even if you disagree, the point is to not attempt to disrespect or belittle anyone that you do not agree with.

You may not see that in yourself, but others do.

I realize the TT "brotherhood" is strong amongst some of y'all, but the silly pissing matches that consist of insults seems a bit childish simply because we have a difference in opinions on a subject that is obviously highly debatable. I haven't complained or whined, as you falsey proclaimed, about those that didn't agree w/ me, all I have done is stated my case & the information I have to support my belief. A belief I might add that others members have agreed with.

You can perceive a "brotherhood" all you desire, but the reality is that many of us are friends outside of this forum and we all share a common passion as Texans fans.

I do not do pissing matches and I do not neg rep folks. You are free to investigate the last 9 years of history in this forum and see that I am fairly consistent in that regard.

I'm not tooting a horn, but rather pointing out that I'm a reasonable guy and have no problem with disagreements.

I understand I am new to this site, but that doesn't mean that I can't express my opinions about the Texans because it isn't inline w/ the TT "brotherhood". I have enjoyed the conversations here & admit some of them go a bit deeper then those on HT.com, which is one aspect that I appreciate about TT, but assuming & acting as if the opinions of long time members are the only ones that are correct seems a bit shortsighted. Honestly, I'm not concerned w/ your opinion about my thoughts because I put no more credit into yours then you do into mine, but I would hope that we could end our disagreements w/ a simple "agree to disagree" w/out this back & forth pissing match stuff because it is weak, tiresome, & juvenile. I do apologize to the other members for engaging in this one for so long as it is obvious many of y'all will stick together regardless & I too will not change my mind. So I simply say...I politely agree to disagree w/ you.

Being a noob to the site has nothing to do with it. We openly welcome new members, as most of the time it is someone like you that shares our passion for the Texans.

Nobody has a superior opinion based on post count, join date, or rep.

However, there are a lot of professionals on this forum who have quality opinions and perspectives. I have learned so much over the years from these folks, and continue to learn, that over time you begin to see value in these various backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives.

As far as being an HT.com reject, that is incorrect to some degree. Did I receive a timeout from HT.com...yes, but I admitted that here so it was wasn't top secret nor did you need to go to your "insider" to obtain that info. You have zero details or knowledge concerning the situation, so i will leave it at that. I do thank you for having enough interest in me to discuss me w/ others outside of this MB though. And to think I thought you thought I was meaningless... Have a nice day!

I was really just yanking your chain about being an HT.com reject. Just a gut feeling that I had when reading your posting style. I did not seek out the information or background check your IP address. Some folks did come to me and confirm it, but not because I asked for it.

My point is that you are welcomed to stay here and become a valued member of the forum. I do not hold grudges and have no personal agenda. I call things like I see it, and when reading this thread, I got a vibe from you that you were unwilling to compromise and started a downward spiral.

It's all good, though. I would not bother to write these words if I thought you were a worthless troll, fwiw. Not that you need or want my validation, but just the same, I take the time to write back out of respect to another member of this forum.

 

[Texn4life]

It's really not. No matter what reasons there were for Schaub's late season play, he has to play better in 2013 for the Texans to be title contenders. He doesn't have to be Tom Brady or Drew Brees. The Matt Schaub of 2009-mid 2012 would be OK.

Now this is something everyone should be able to agree on. Hell, the early season Schuab last year is good enough to win a championship with.

When he's on his game he's as efficient as anyone other than maybe the top 3 QBs in the game. We need to improve in the red zone this year, and Matt needs to get back to not turning the ball over. He needs to re-watch the first 3 quarters of the Denver game last year. That's how we need him to play with the exception of the bad INT at the end of the 1st half. I'll even take a bonehead pick like that if he's out there getting it done like he was the rest of the game.

 

[thunderkyss]

*sigh*

Originally Posted by tru80texan
As far as being an HT.com reject, that is incorrect to some degree. Did I receive a timeout from HT.com...yes, but I admitted that here so it was wasn't top secret nor did you need to go to your "insider" to obtain that info.

I was really just yanking your chain about being an HT.com reject. Just a gut feeling that I had when reading your posting style.

 

[thunderkyss]

Now this is something everyone should be able to agree on. Hell, the early season Schuab last year is good enough to win a championship with.

When he's on his game he's as efficient as anyone other than maybe the top 3 QBs in the game. We need to improve in the red zone this year, and Matt needs to get back to not turning the ball over. He needs to re-watch the first 3 quarters of the Denver game last year. That's how we need him to play with the exception of the bad INT at the end of the 1st half. I'll even take a bonehead pick like that if he's out there getting it done like he was the rest of the game.

Outside of Denver.... which games do you think Matt performed like a franchise QB?

I used to think the same thing. I never liked him, or his style of QB, but I accepted the fact that he was one of the true starting QBs in the league. But last year, he was in a funk that lasted all season long.

I think there was some holding back by Kubiak, but I "feel" like there was some holding back by Schaub as well. We were overly conservative & it just felt like a different offense all together.

I mean we booed them in week 1...... but won the game by 20.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Outside of Denver.... which games do you think Matt performed like a franchise QB?

I used to think the same thing. I never liked him, or his style of QB, but I accepted the fact that he was one of the true starting QBs in the league. But last year, he was in a funk that lasted all season long.

I think there was some holding back by Kubiak, but I "feel" like there was some holding back by Schaub as well. We were overly conservative & it just felt like a different offense all together.

I mean we booed them in week 1...... but won the game by 20.

I think that last bit is really all you need to know.

Through the early part of the season, I felt like the offense was playing a good conservative strategy. Good winning football.

To me, that was franchise quarterback football, championship football. Not flashy. Not gaudy. Just get the win and move on.

 

[Texn4life]

Outside of Denver.... which games do you think Matt performed like a franchise QB?

I used to think the same thing. I never liked him, or his style of QB, but I accepted the fact that he was one of the true starting QBs in the league. But last year, he was in a funk that lasted all season long.

I think there was some holding back by Kubiak, but I "feel" like there was some holding back by Schaub as well. We were overly conservative & it just felt like a different offense all together.

I mean we booed them in week 1...... but won the game by 20.

I honestly can't say I think he's a franchise QB. The best word I can use to describe him early in the season is "efficient". Efficient was good enough for us to start out the season on fire though. Even though I can't say he was playing well he wasn't turning the ball over and that's what drives me crazy as a fan.

The question then becomes can we win the Super Bowl with an non-franchise, efficient QB? It hasn't been done in over a decade so I'm not really sure. We really just need him to be playing well at the right time. I highlight the Denver game because that's probably when he was at his best. He was good against Jax and Detroit too, but to me those games were different because we were playing catchup.

The best I've seen Matt and this offense was that stretch of games before he was hurt against Tampa. Somehow we need to figure out how to get back to that.

 

[infantrycak]

But last year, he was in a funk that lasted all season long.

That flies in the face of the facts. In the first 12 games Schaub was just shy of a 100 QBrating. In the last 4 games he plummeted over 20 points

I mean we booed them in week 1...... but won the game by 20.

If by we you mean drunk idiots then that can never be stopped and is hardly a good measuring stick.

 

[thunderkyss]

That flies in the face of the facts. In the first 12 games Schaub was just shy of a 100 QBrating. In the last 4 games he plummeted over 20 points

He had a 102 QB rating against Miami, but I don't think he played particularly well. Efficient, yes.

He also had 4 games with a QBR under 80 in the first 12 games. Including two games below 60

If by we you mean drunk idiots then that can never be stopped and is hardly a good measuring stick.

Not settling for a field goal after the defense puts you inside the 10 yard line would go a long way.

 

[thunderkyss]

Slow day..... so I'm lurking on a Ravens' board. Talk about RodneyDangerfield.......

NFL.com has ranked QBs and I think they are under rating Joe Flacco at #13 behind some QBs like Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, RG3, Colin Kapernick(?), Russel Wilson(?!), and Cam Newton(WTF!).

They have Joe Flacco in front of Tony Romo, Matthew Stafford, and Jay Cutler all listed as Solid Dudes. I don't mind Joe Flacco listed with these four players, but behind the QB that lost the SB? Behind Cam Newton? Puh-lease!

I know it's just someone's opinion as to where all of these guys are ranked, but I expect more from the NFL site.

Schaub isn't in their conversation at all.

Not even a, "Well he's ranked better than that Schaub guy. They mentioned Romo for Christ sakes.

 

[chenjy9]

Slow day..... so I'm lurking on a Ravens' board. Talk about RodneyDangerfield.......



Schaub isn't in their conversation at all.

Not even a, "Well he's ranked better than that Schaub guy. They mentioned Romo for Christ sakes.

Schaub is by all accounts, not prolific and underwhelming. Going by his recent extension, I consider him overpaid/overrated as well. Most fans outside of the Texans probably never heard of him or cared to hear about him. It's just the Texans QB.

 

[Rey]

I think that last bit is really all you need to know.

Through the early part of the season, I felt like the offense was playing a good conservative strategy. Good winning football.

To me, that was franchise quarterback football, championship football. Not flashy. Not gaudy. Just get the win and move on.

Couldn't disagree more. Texans were playing poorly offensively. 3 and outs aren't conservative and they were visibly upset with the way things were going. They even said in press conferences that they were t happy with how they played.

Texans offense may have put up some good numbers, but they underachieved last year. They'll be the first to tell you that. They didn't suck, but not sucking isn't the goal anymore. If our aim is winning a Super Bowl, we need to forget about what we used to be. We can no longer compare this team to the old texans. The measuring stick has gone higher. The goals are different. With the players and pro bowlers we have offensively and everyone was healthy, we should dominate defenses. Doing ok, not looking so bad, doing enough to get by is not cool anymore. Especially in today's nfl where the rules favor the offenses.

Offensively our goal should be to come out and impose our offensive will on MOST teams we face. That doesn't mean Schaub has to be Brady, what it means is that as a total offense we need to be right up there or better than the top offenses in the league. There really is 0 excuse for us not to be.

What you're describing as an offense is what some mediocre, borderline team needs to do. Some sloppy offensive team.

Screw that. Our offense needs to come out, set the tone, let teams know that they'll have to put some points up today and let our defense play aggressive.

 

[Rey]

Schaub is by all accounts, not prolific and underwhelming. Going by his recent extension, I consider him overpaid/overrated as well. Most fans outside of the Texans probably never heard of him or cared to hear about him. It's just the Texans QB.

I think Hopkins is going to help Schaub out tremendously. I don't think he's the type of qb that is going to make lesser players look good. Or carry an offense to sustained success. But I do think if the pieces are in place around him he can be good enough.

Eventually I'd like to replace him with someone with more ability, but he's a good player. Chad Pennington type player.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Couldn't disagree more. Texans were playing poorly offensively. 3 and outs aren't conservative and they were visibly upset with the way things were going. They even said in press conferences that they were t happy with how they played.

Texans offense may have put up some good numbers, but they underachieved last year. They'll be the first to tell you that. They didn't suck, but not sucking isn't the goal anymore. If our aim is winning a Super Bowl, we need to forget about what we used to be. We can no longer compare this team to the old texans. The measuring stick has gone higher. The goals are different. With the players and pro bowlers we have offensively and everyone was healthy, we should dominate defenses. Doing ok, not looking so bad, doing enough to get by is not cool anymore. Especially in today's nfl where the rules favor the offenses.

Offensively our goal should be to come out and impose our offensive will on MOST teams we face. That doesn't mean Schaub has to be Brady, what it means is that as a total offense we need to be right up there or better than the top offenses in the league. There really is 0 excuse for us not to be.

What you're describing as an offense is what some mediocre, borderline team needs to do. Some sloppy offensive team.

Screw that. Our offense needs to come out, set the tone, let teams know that they'll have to put some points up today and let our defense play aggressive.

You mean... like the Ravens?

Seriously, dude. Through the first half of the season, we were killing people. We beat 4 of our first 8 opponents by 20+ points. We were averaging almost 30 points a game while allowing our opponents to average about 17 points a game.

That's some good damned football right there. That's championship play.

Could we have played better? Yeah? So? No team plays perfect.

Now, take a look at the last few SB winners. Did they put up the kind of numbers you're talking about? Uh... no.

One of the things that irks me is this belief that you can only win the Super Bowl if you play a perfect season. Where your offense has to come out screaming every game and have no 3 and outs and you can never punt. That's not championship football, that's fantasy football. That's Madden football.

 

[chenjy9]

I think Hopkins is going to help Schaub out tremendously. I don't think he's the type of qb that is going to make lesser players look good. Or carry an offense to sustained success. But I do think if the pieces are in place around him he can be good enough.

Eventually I'd like to replace him with someone with more ability, but he's a good player. Chad Pennington type player.

He's definitely a good QB and we can be in a much worse situation. Something about other QB's scrambling for first downs or keeping the play alive for something to develop downfield makes me look back at Schaub in disgust though...

 

[Rey]

You mean... like the Ravens?

No. The Ravens didn't have the offensive ability we had. Schaub has been a better QB from a production standpoint that Flacco. The Texans offense overall has been more productive.

No one said that the team had to have a perfect season. What are you even talking about there?

I'm disputing a very particular point, which was the team playing conservatively early on offensively because it was winning games. I disagree. I don't think they were intentionally conservative...I think they were underachieving....

 

[ObsiWan]

He's definitely a good QB and we can be in a much worse situation. Something about other QB's scrambling for first downs or keeping the play alive for something to develop downfield makes me look back at Schaub in disgust though...

You mean like Cam Newton...? He finished 6-10 two years running. Stodgy old Schaub finished 10-6 and 12-4 over that same period.

Just saying neither Tom Brady nor Peyton nor Eli are your basic "scramble around keep the play alive" guys either; at least not in the same sense C. Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, and R.G.III (and the aforementioned Newton) are perceived to be.

I definitely recognize - and appreciate - the highlight reel capacity of those younger QBs...
but
I'll take lots of "conservative", stodgy, old, blah wins, with repeated helping of playoffs, over highlight segments, thank you.

But that's just me and, admittedly, I'm an old fart who wasn't raised on Madden.

 

[htownfan32]

You mean like Cam Newton...? He finished 6-10 two years running. Stodgy old Schaub finished 10-6 and 12-4 over that same period.

Just saying neither Tom Brady nor Peyton nor Eli aren't "scramble around keep the play alive" guys either; at least not in the same sense C. Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, and R.G.III (and the aforementioned Newton) are perceived to be.

I definitely recognize - and appreciate - the highlight reel capacity of those younger QBs...
but
I'll take lots of "conservative", stodgy, old, blah wins, with repeated helping of playoffs, over highlight segments, thank you.

But that's just me and, admittedly, I'm an old fart who wasn't raised on Madden.

Even more so than this, I don't understand why the blame of the offensive struggles of our team is heaped upon Schaub. Our offense is run first - when the run sucks, everything else falls apart. Schaub does his best when we can't run, our weakness at the WR position is shown. We can't revert to the pass like we did in 2010 when Schaub led so many comebacks (that our defense let down). I don't know whether he was rusty coming off the foot injury and maybe a full offseason of working out will help, idk. But I wouldn't be surprised if Schaub is better this season with a full football offseason to prepare.

 

[chenjy9]

You mean like Cam Newton...? He finished 6-10 two years running. Stodgy old Schaub finished 10-6 and 12-4 over that same period.

Just saying neither Tom Brady nor Peyton nor Eli are your basic "scramble around keep the play alive" guys either; at least not in the same sense C. Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, and R.G.III (and the aforementioned Newton) are perceived to be.

I definitely recognize - and appreciate - the highlight reel capacity of those younger QBs...
but
I'll take lots of "conservative", stodgy, old, blah wins, with repeated helping of playoffs, over highlight segments, thank you.

But that's just me and, admittedly, I'm an old fart who wasn't raised on Madden.

I really don't agree with the Newton comment. He is 6-10 because he is not on a very good team. If he was on a team like Texans and Schaub was on the Panthers, I am personally sure the story would be very different.

I never said anything about a running QB or even a mobile QB. I understand Schaub's limitations and I am not asking for him to be able to rush like Wilson, Newton, Kaepernick, or RG3. I do expect him to not immediately check down or throw it away when he is pushed out of the pocket.

Brady, Manning, ect are top tier QB's. If we had one of those guys, we wouldn't be complaining about our QB situation now would we? Schaub is like Manning Lite v0.00000000001. He sucks compares to top tier QB's and that's why many want better.

I don't care about highlights, I care about wins. Throwing it away or checking down on a 3rd down is not going to win us games. My complaint is as that as soon as Schaub is forced out of the pocket, the play is almost always dead to us unless someone is able to bail him out.

First, I did not and do not play Madden. Secondly, let me ask you... where has our conservative QB and play calling gotten us? Exactly as far as we got last year with a rookie QB and desperate (IMHO) play calling.

Now, I know that this is not entirely Schaub's fault that our team completely broke down down the stretch. It is also not his fault that he is significantly overpaid. What is his fault however, is that we can't count on him to carry us to a W if we need him, well not consistently at least. As a highly paid player in a leader position, that really bothers me. Add on to the fact that he is old and capped out in improvements, he will not be getting any better, only worse. Point is, we need a QB that can scramble WHEN NEEDED to really make our offense shine, not an over the hill player who at best can only be counted on to manage the game and hopefully not screw up.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I don't care about highlights, I care about wins. Throwing it away or checking down on a 3rd down is not going to win us games. My complaint is as that as soon as Schaub is forced out of the pocket, the play is almost always dead to us unless someone is able to bail him out.

You say that checking down on 3rd down is not going to get us wins and yet, we went 12-4 last year.

This is what I'm saying... what you believe it takes to win is wrong.

Now... I expect you're going to say that "Yeah... well... that was in the regular season and we lost in the post-season. WE ARE LOSERS IN THE POST SEASON! WE CAN'T WIN WITH SCHAUB WHEN IT COUNTS BECAUSE HE'S MANNING LITE! WAH WAH WAH. WE CAN ONLY WIN IF WE'RE THE GREATEST EVAR!"



But history does not support you or your belief. You can win a SB with a QB who's not elite. (Unless of course, your definition of elite includes winning a SB.)

 

[chenjy9]

You say that checking down on 3rd down is not going to get us wins and yet, we went 12-4 last year.

This is what I'm saying... what you believe it takes to win is wrong.

Now... I expect you're going to say that "Yeah... well... that was in the regular season and we lost in the post-season. WE ARE LOSERS IN THE POST SEASON! WE CAN'T WIN WITH SCHAUB WHEN IT COUNTS BECAUSE HE'S MANNING LITE! WAH WAH WAH. WE CAN ONLY WIN IF WE'RE THE GREATEST EVAR!"



But history does not support you or your belief. You can win a SB with a QB who's not elite. (Unless of course, your definition of elite includes winning a SB.)

We did not go 12-4 because of Schaub IMO. I believe we went 12-4 IN SPITE OF Schaub. That is probably the key difference between how I see things and how you see things. I saw us (Foster and D specifically) CARRY Schaub to a winning season. I went him, when the game is on the line, to NOT check down and try to develop other options. You can be satisfied with having a QB like Schaub, but honestly I don't have any confidence in him.

Also, when did I ever say we needed a HoF QB to win? What I do believe is, we will never win a SB with Schaub under center, unless our team carries him and his mistakes, because I cannot count on Schaub to not screw things up somewhere. I am not advocating that we dump him now, but I am definitely hoping the FO replaces him or looks for his replacement sooner than later.

PS

To further elucidate my point, at no point during games do I ever find myself thinking "It's OK, Schaub will be able to win this for us" or "Schaub will be able to close this game out for us." When we are close in games and not able to grind out the clock with our run game, you know what my thought is every time we march Schaub back on the field? "God I hope he doesn't eff this up!" How about when we get to 3rd and long? "Unless AJ or Foster bails us out, we are looking at another kick or field go." I don't get positive feelings or even expectations of Schaub and that really concerns me personally going into the future. Maybe some of you are still living in the nightmare of Carr and Schaub just simply seems like a godsend to you. For me however, he is one of our few weak links on this team as a starter.

 

[silvrhand]

But history does not support you or your belief. You can win a SB with a QB who's not elite. (Unless of course, your definition of elite includes winning a SB.)

100% disagree, history does prove that you need a very GOOD QB to win the superbowl.. look at the last 20 of them, only 2 are not HOF material, and of those two both have stupid record defenses. The 2000 Ravens, and the only team to have 3 defensive touchdowns in a superbowl.

Super Bowl XXVII - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXVIII - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXIX - Steve Young
Super Bowl XXX - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXXI - Brett Favre
Super Bowl XXXII - John Elway
Super Bowl XXXIII - John Elway
Super Bowl XXXIV - Kurt Warner
Super Bowl XXXV - Trent Dilfer
Super Bowl XXXVI - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XXXVII - Brad Johnson
Super Bowl XXXVIII - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XXXIX - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XL - Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl XLI - Peyton Manning
Super Bowl XLII - Eli Manning
Super Bowl XLIII - Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl XLIV - Drew Brees
Super Bowl XLV - Aaron Rodgers

 

[The Pencil Neck]

100% disagree, history does prove that you need a very GOOD QB to win the superbowl.. look at the last 20 of them, only 2 are not HOF material..

Several things... ELITE is different than a GOOD QB. And you can get into the HOF even if you're not an Elite QB. And, as I said, there are some QBs that people consider "elite" or whatever ONLY because they've won some SBs. I don't.

Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco are NOT elite QBs. Brees has good years and he's got bad years. Same with Kurt Warner. I don't consider those guys elite, although Brees was in the discussion for a year or two.

I'll give you Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Elway, and Favre. I think Aikman is a borderline case.

At this point right now, I consider Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers elite. No one else.

 

[infantrycak]

100% disagree, history does prove that you need a very GOOD QB to win the superbowl.. look at the last 20 of them, only 2 are not HOF material, and of those two both have stupid record defenses. The 2000 Ravens, and the only team to have 3 defensive touchdowns in a superbowl.

Put aside Schaub. A lot of this is chicken and egg - QB's are HOF material in large part because they win one or more SB's regardless of their merit in those SB's. Big Ben was miserable in two wins. Aikman (and I was/am a Cowboys fan) was the epitome of precision game manager (frankly Aikman is what I think Kubiak wants out of Schaub). Elway should never be brought up for this assertion since in his heyday he couldn't put the team on his shoulders and win - he got his wins off the team. Tom Brady's 1st win was on the team not him.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

. Maybe some of you are still living in the nightmare of Carr and Schaub just simply seems like a godsend to you. For me however, he is one of our few weak links on this team as a starter.

I think you're still scarred from the Carr nightmare and because of that, you expect the worst.

We can be down 2 scores going in to the 4th quarter and I still expect to win.

 

[chenjy9]

I think you're still scarred from the Carr nightmare and because of that, you expect the worst.

We can be down 2 scores going in to the 4th quarter and I still expect to win.

Nah, it is because Schaub has not done anything to show me that we can count on him as a field leader for the team. I wasn't as much scarred by Carr as much as disgusted. I gave up completely on Carr. It was a given that Carr couldn't find his way to a W if the other team didn't slap him silly with it and even then, it was a toss up. A big part of that had to do with our lack of O-Line, but Carr was definitely less than mediocre even before becoming a shell-shocked version of his previous mediocre self.

 

[thunderkyss]

Put aside Schaub. A lot of this is chicken and egg - QB's are HOF material in large part because they win one or more SB's regardless of their merit in those SB's. Big Ben was miserable in two wins. Aikman (and I was/am a Cowboys fan) was the epitome of precision game manager (frankly Aikman is what I think Kubiak wants out of Schaub). Elway should never be brought up for this assertion since in his heyday he couldn't put the team on his shoulders and win - he got his wins off the team. Tom Brady's 1st win was on the team not him.

I think Tom's first two were on his team. He was not a very good QB back then. He was very efficient & he took care of the ball. He was on a very good team with very good coaches.

He's a much better QB now than he was then. But, he hasn't been able to win a SuperBowl since he's been able to put a team on his shoulders.

 

[thunderkyss]

We can be down 2 scores going in to the 4th quarter and I still expect to win.

Before last year, I thought the same way. I'd seen them do it.

But last year, several games, I kept waiting for them to turn it on & they never did. Several games last year, we were waiting for them to go into hurry up mode & it just didn't happen.

I know there must have been reasons they never turned it on & I'm always looking for those reasons, but I never came across anything that made sense to me.

& you know me, it doesn't take a lot for me to make sense out of something.

 

[ASidd_1990]

ProFootballMock is wrong for this one.

http://profootballmock.com/aaron-rodgers-role-on-the-office-prompts-a-wave-of-qb-tv-cameos/

•TOM BRADY/MATT SCHAUB: Brady eagerly agrees to bed Matt Schaub’s wife, professional cheerleader Laurie Schaub, on the ABC reality series “Celebrity Wife Swap.” Controversy erupts however, when Giselle Bündchen refuses to reciprocate by declaring that she will not go anywhere near the aesthetically challenged Houston QB. Spoiler alert: Brady eventually beds both women simultaneously while Schaub weeps quietly in another room.

 

[Double Barrel]

I think Tom's first two were on his team. He was not a very good QB back then. He was very efficient & he took care of the ball. He was on a very good team with very good coaches.

'eh, gotta' disagree a little. Yeah, great teams, without a doubt. And yeah, won on a Vinatieri kick.

However, it was a tie game (17-17) with 1:30 on the clock and no timeouts.

Brady nailed 5 of 6 passes to move the ball down the field 53 yards, setting up that FG attempt.

It took a clutch QB to make the plays in a minute and a half, under pressure of a monumental game (dude wasn't even a starter at the beginning of the season), to be a big part of winning it. That's why he won the SB MVP, in spite of stats. It was his performance.

Bringing it back to Schaub, I do not have the confidence in him that he could make this drive to set up a game winning FG. And that, in my mind, is what separates good from great.

 

[chenjy9]

Bringing it back to Schaub, I do not have the confidence in him that he could make this drive to set up a game winning FG. And that, in my mind, is what separates good from great.

I wouldn't quite say "good" from "great" but rather "good" from "very good" Great QB's are able to consistently carry the team on their backs when asked to and establish confidence in players and fans that he can and will when needed. Very good QB's consistently do what their team needs to win and can be counted on to not mess up usually when pressured. Good QB's are QB's that can usually help their team not lose by typically doing their jobs correctly.

When Schaub is pressured mentally, I anticipate failure from him. I anticipate underthrown passes interceptions. When we are done or need a clutch performance, I never look to Schaub or even consider him outside a desperate prayer of "Please don't screw up Schaub!" He is just far too limited to begin with and IMO, very weak mentally. Basically, to me he is not a leader on the field, but another soldier.

 

[ObsiWan]

I really don't agree with the Newton comment. He is 6-10 because he is not on a very good team. If he was on a team like Texans and Schaub was on the Panthers, I am personally sure the story would be very different.

I never said anything about a running QB or even a mobile QB. I understand Schaub's limitations and I am not asking for him to be able to rush like Wilson, Newton, Kaepernick, or RG3. I do expect him to not immediately check down or throw it away when he is pushed out of the pocket.

Brady, Manning, ect are top tier QB's. If we had one of those guys, we wouldn't be complaining about our QB situation now would we? Schaub is like Manning Lite v0.00000000001. He sucks compares to top tier QB's and that's why many want better.

I don't care about highlights, I care about wins. Throwing it away or checking down on a 3rd down is not going to win us games. My complaint is as that as soon as Schaub is forced out of the pocket, the play is almost always dead to us unless someone is able to bail him out.

First, I did not and do not play Madden. Secondly, let me ask you... where has our conservative QB and play calling gotten us? Exactly as far as we got last year with a rookie QB and desperate (IMHO) play calling.

Now, I know that this is not entirely Schaub's fault that our team completely broke down down the stretch. It is also not his fault that he is significantly overpaid. What is his fault however, is that we can't count on him to carry us to a W if we need him, well not consistently at least. As a highly paid player in a leader position, that really bothers me. Add on to the fact that he is old and capped out in improvements, he will not be getting any better, only worse. Point is, we need a QB that can scramble WHEN NEEDED to really make our offense shine, not an over the hill player who at best can only be counted on to manage the game and hopefully not screw up.

Well, since all the arguments I was going to make regarding Schaub vs. other perceived "elite" QBs have already been pointed out by TPN, I-Cak, and TK, there's no need to repeat them.

I will add this. Schaub was picked by Kubiak to run his system. An offense that does not rely on stellar QB play to produce wins. Up in Denver, Kubiak watched for years as one of the premier QBs of his time failed time after time to win a championship. There's no doubt, I would hope, that Elway had all the tools; laser-rocket arm, elusiveness to extend plays with his legs, and the steely nerve and focus to bring his team back from behind for wins time and time again.
BUT that was not enough.
Until Elway (and by association, Kubiak) got a "horse" at RB that the other team had to respect he couldn't get a ring. Elway had had solid defenses before but never that signature running game. Three trips to the Super Bowl, three beatdowns. Only one of which was against an elite-level QB, Joe Montana in SB XXIV. The other two were against Phil Simms and Doug Williams. You tell me if either of those guys are elite QBs or simply efficient system guys.

I bring this up because I think that experience gave Kubiak the mindset that a balanced attack featuring solid running attack in combo with a respectable passing attack is more apt to lead to championships than an elite stud at QB.

I will say this, the QB in Kubiak's system has to be smart enough to recognize mismatches and effective enough to get the ball to the guys who can make plays and exploit the mismatches. When Schaub is on his game, he's that guy. When he isn't... he does what Kubiak calls "leaving plays/points on the field". That kinda crap is what we saw from Schaub in Dec/Jan and has to be minimized or Schaub will be replaced.
You can count on that.

 

[silvrhand]

Put aside Schaub. A lot of this is chicken and egg - QB's are HOF material in large part because they win one or more SB's regardless of their merit in those SB's. Big Ben was miserable in two wins. Aikman (and I was/am a Cowboys fan) was the epitome of precision game manager (frankly Aikman is what I think Kubiak wants out of Schaub). Elway should never be brought up for this assertion since in his heyday he couldn't put the team on his shoulders and win - he got his wins off the team. Tom Brady's 1st win was on the team not him.

But I would wager to bet many of us would have rather have most of the QBs listed above than Schaub.

 

[thunderkyss]

But I would wager to bet many of us would have rather have most of the QBs listed above than Schaub.

I'm thinking we're going to win it all this year & Schaub will be considered elite.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

But I would wager to bet many of us would have rather have most of the QBs listed above than Schaub.

So? Many people are self-destructive idiots who make short-sighted decisions, that doesn't make them right about anything.

 

[chenjy9]

So? Many people are self-destructive idiots who make short-sighted decisions, that doesn't make them right about anything.

Are you always this salty? Your opinion is as worthwhile as anyone else's.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Are you always this salty? Your opinion is as worthwhile as anyone else's.

Arguing that something is a certain way because there are people who believe that it's a certain way is a common logical fallacy called The Appeal To Widespread Belief. And that was Silvrhand's argument. I was pointing out the fallacy.

As you said, my opinion is not any more worthwhile than anyone else's. But that goes both ways. No one else's opinion is any more worthwhile than mine which is what the Appeal To Widespread Belief tries to imply.

 

[Mr teX]

100% disagree, history does prove that you need a very GOOD QB to win the superbowl.. look at the last 20 of them, only 2 are not HOF material, and of those two both have stupid record defenses. The 2000 Ravens, and the only team to have 3 defensive touchdowns in a superbowl.

Super Bowl XXVII - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXVIII - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXIX - Steve Young
Super Bowl XXX - Troy Aikman
Super Bowl XXXI - Brett Favre
Super Bowl XXXII - John Elway
Super Bowl XXXIII - John Elway
Super Bowl XXXIV - Kurt Warner
Super Bowl XXXV - Trent Dilfer
Super Bowl XXXVI - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XXXVII - Brad Johnson
Super Bowl XXXVIII - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XXXIX - Tom Brady
Super Bowl XL - Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl XLI - Peyton Manning
Super Bowl XLII - Eli Manning
Super Bowl XLIII - Ben Roethlisberger
Super Bowl XLIV - Drew Brees
Super Bowl XLV - Aaron Rodgers

This whole post is just jokes...

Up until this past year Flacco was considered just a good qb with a big arm.

A few years before that, before he pulled off 1 of the biggest SB upsets in history with 1 of the clutchest drives ever, Eli Manning was a borderline average qb...there was even talk about moving on from him in NY prior to that run they had in 2007.

Before him, Kurt Warner was bagging groceries on the street and all he does is lead 1 of the greatest offenses ever to 2 straight SB's...then goes to the giants, looks completely overmatched and washed up, only to go to the cardinals a year later and nearly lead them to a SB win.

I say all that to say that of these 3 SB winning qb's, Schaub is only less mobile than 1 of them....his arm strength is on par with at least 1 of them....and he's had at least 2 seasons in his career that are on par if not flat out better than all 3 of these guys' best seasons ----save for Warner's 99' season which was just in another stratsophere.

As for all that other unquantifiable criteria you guys are using to judge him like "clutch" factor and "eye" test.........the truth of the matter is that there are so many other things that go into that. it's almost not even worth mentioning.

-You think Kubiak would've trusted a 6th round 1st year starting qb to lead a game winning drive for a FG to win it in SB XXXVI? Nope..we probably sit on the ball & go to OT.

-You think Kevin Walter or Jacoby Jones make that David Tyree catch if Schaub somehow got out of that near sack and luckily tosses it deep in the middle of the field? Nope.

-Do you really believe Kubiak is calling an onside kick coming out of halftime to get his offense an extra offensive possession in SB XLIV? Nope.

- How about the right side of our o-line holding up against SF's front 7 last year? Nope.

This guy is good enough for us to win a SB with if all things are in place around him. & for the life of me, i can't understand why we are bashing him when this is the case for 99% of qb's in the league and we had other more glaring weaknesses that were responsible for what happened to us late in the season.

 

[ObsiWan]

This whole post is just jokes...

Up until this past year Flacco was considered just a good qb with a big arm.

A few years before that, before he pulled off 1 of the biggest SB upsets in history with 1 of the clutchest drives ever, Eli Manning was a borderline average qb...there was even talk about moving on from him in NY prior to that run they had in 2007.

Before him, Kurt Warner was bagging groceries on the street and all he does is lead 1 of the greatest offenses ever to 2 straight SB's...then goes to the giants, looks completely overmatched and washed up, only to go to the cardinals a year later and nearly lead them to a SB win.

I say all that to say that of these 3 SB winning qb's, Schaub is only less mobile than 1 of them....his arm strength is on par with at least 1 of them....and he's had at least 2 seasons in his career that are on par if not flat out better than all 3 of these guys' best seasons ----save for Warner's 99' season which was just in another stratsophere.

As for all that other unquantifiable criteria you guys are using to judge him like "clutch" factor and "eye" test.........the truth of the matter is that there are so many other things that go into that. it's almost not even worth mentioning.

-You think Kubiak would've trusted a 6th round 1st year starting qb to lead a game winning drive for a FG to win it in SB XXXVI? Nope..we probably sit on the ball & go to OT.

-You think Kevin Walter or Jacoby Jones make that David Tyree catch if Schaub somehow got out of that near sack and luckily tosses it deep in the middle of the field? Nope.

-Do you really believe Kubiak is calling an onside kick coming out of halftime to get his offense an extra offensive possession in SB XLIV? Nope.

- How about the right side of our o-line holding up against SF's front 7 last year? Nope.

This guy is good enough for us to win a SB with if all things are in place around him. & for the life of me, i can't understand why we are bashing him when this is the case for 99% of qb's in the league and we had other more glaring weaknesses that were responsible for what happened to us late in the season.

Repped.

And I wonder why the poster you quoted left stopped at SB XLV..?

 

[chenjy9]

Instead of merely hoping that all of the stars to perfectly align to carry our overpaid QB to victory, I would much rather our FO start looking for his replacement NOW and throw Schaub's behind on the curb ASAP. I never advocated for that replacement to be either Yates or Keenum, though I do believe from what I have seen last year that Yates will not be a suitable replacement. Either way, neither Yates or Keenum changes how I feel about Schaub and my personal opinion is that we should be looking for better now because Schaub is not going to lead us anywhere and I am not too confident in our chances of winning WHILE carrying Schaub with Kubes at the wheel.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Instead of merely hoping that all of the stars to perfectly align to carry our overpaid QB to victory, I would much rather our FO start looking for his replacement NOW and throw Schaub's behind on the curb ASAP. I never advocated for that replacement to be either Yates or Keenum, though I do believe from what I have seen last year that Yates will not be a suitable replacement. Either way, neither Yates or Keenum changes how I feel about Schaub and my personal opinion is that we should be looking for better now because Schaub is not going to lead us anywhere and I am not too confident in our chances of winning WHILE carrying Schaub with Kubes at the wheel.

I'm glad you cleared that up.

 

[silvrhand]

Arguing that something is a certain way because there are people who believe that it's a certain way is a common logical fallacy called The Appeal To Widespread Belief. And that was Silvrhand's argument. I was pointing out the fallacy.

As you said, my opinion is not any more worthwhile than anyone else's. But that goes both ways. No one else's opinion is any more worthwhile than mine which is what the Appeal To Widespread Belief tries to imply.

Look there is no doubt I don't think Schaub is the guy to take us to the superbowl, could he possibly do it, yes there always is that. I would rather have 10-15 of the other QB's in the league than I would Schaub, and to me he needs some competition, real competition not a FA that didn't make the draft, not a 6th round pick.. a real QB prospect and light some fire under his ass.