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Schaub is the Rodney Dangerfield Of QBs He Gets No Respect!
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
Whatever credibility this writer had was gone when he put Josh Freeman 5 spots higher than Schaub. Schaub may have his limitations but Josh Freeman, really?
Freeman is 6 years younger with a stronger arm and at least some mobility. In overall performance, they are closer than not, but Freeman has a better chance of improving than Schuab. In short we probably know what Schuab is, but we don't know what other mediocore guys like Bradford, Tannehill and Freeman will become. They are 'better" for that reason alone.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Matt Schaub the 23rd best QB in the league?
****ing asinine.
****ing asinine.
He's a whole 2 spots ahead of Locker if that puts it even more in perspective for people. Schaub has had his terrible moments, but its funny to see where Cam Newton is in relation to him and I'm a Cam fan. I can't say its a travesty because I'd rate Schaub middle of the pack right now with the capability of being a top 10 QB if he removes the vagina from in between his legs and grows a pair. His limitations are in his head in my opinion.
silvrhand
All Pro
quoted because it's true and +rep.
OK, so 18th would make you feel better?
kingtexan
All Pro
Agree. He should be down around 27 or 28th, and depending on what Weeden and Gabbert do in their new systems this year, could fall to 29th. Don't forget he has had his entire career as a starter in the same system to prove himself, and hasn't. Some of these other guys have had to juggle multiple systems, OC's, and/or HC's. I would have no problem having anyone on that list above him starting this year, and would throw in a definite for Dalton or Palmer in his place as well, and wouldn't think Ponder or Locker could do much worse than Matt has.
nero THE zero
All Pro
Yep. I think the tiers are correct.
You can quibble on where Schaub ranks in that particular tier, I probably wouldn't put him last, but I think it's the tier he belongs in, and I certainly could make a case for each QB in that tier to be ranked ahead of him (and vice versa).
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I'm not a Schaub fan, but I do think he's a bit low on that list. This is not to say I don't want him replaced, because I do. It's just there isn't anyone else on the team or avaliable for signing that could step in and do better for the upcoming season. The Texans seriously need to be looking for a future QB.
I think that list is absurd. Schaub is in the top half of Qb's in the league IMO. I created my own list of the top 20 guys, here it is.:
1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. P. Manning
5. E. Manning
6. Big Ben
7. Luck
8. Matt Ryan
9. Kaepernick
10. Wilson
11. RG3
12. Flacco
13. Romo
14. Schaub
15. Stafford
16. Cutler
17. Newton
18. Dalton
19. Freeman
20. Rivers
I think this is more accurate list, someone's potential doesn't matter in this list until they reach it.
1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. P. Manning
5. E. Manning
6. Big Ben
7. Luck
8. Matt Ryan
9. Kaepernick
10. Wilson
11. RG3
12. Flacco
13. Romo
14. Schaub
15. Stafford
16. Cutler
17. Newton
18. Dalton
19. Freeman
20. Rivers
I think this is more accurate list, someone's potential doesn't matter in this list until they reach it.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I think he's ranked way too low but I'm not worried about it.
He wasn't required to put up big numbers to win last year and he didn't. I don't believe that means that he can't.
He wasn't required to put up big numbers to win last year and he didn't. I don't believe that means that he can't.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
If the ranking is 2012 in a vacuum, I've got no problem with where he landed.
If the ranking is based on the player's entire career, he's too low (I'd put him somewhere in the low teens).
If the ranking is based on who you'd take for the next 1-3 seasons, it's probably a little bit too low, but as of right now, I can't argue too much. The reality is he's got the 2013 season to change or reinforce the perception. Beyond that, who knows.
And while I have my opinion, basically, with the vast majority of subjective rankings - whether team or individual - I agree with the Shakespearean angle that it's a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
If the ranking is based on the player's entire career, he's too low (I'd put him somewhere in the low teens).
If the ranking is based on who you'd take for the next 1-3 seasons, it's probably a little bit too low, but as of right now, I can't argue too much. The reality is he's got the 2013 season to change or reinforce the perception. Beyond that, who knows.
And while I have my opinion, basically, with the vast majority of subjective rankings - whether team or individual - I agree with the Shakespearean angle that it's a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
I would say the ranking is a tad low, but not too inaccurate either considering Schaub:
- Constantly looks to check down or throw it out when pushed out of pocket
- Is aging and not getting any younger
- Had extensive work done on his foot, taking away whatever little mobility he ever had
- Constantly underthrows his targets
- No longer throws accurately long distance
- Can NOT be counted on to lead us to victory
Schaub is what it he is, a system manager and not even that great of one.
- Constantly looks to check down or throw it out when pushed out of pocket
- Is aging and not getting any younger
- Had extensive work done on his foot, taking away whatever little mobility he ever had
- Constantly underthrows his targets
- No longer throws accurately long distance
- Can NOT be counted on to lead us to victory
Schaub is what it he is, a system manager and not even that great of one.
Well, if Schaub had checked down to Foster instead of trying to throw the ball to Walter, he might have had a TD instead of an INT against the Pats.
This offense doesn't require superbly talented players to function. This system is built to make things easier on guys vs some other offenses that rely on the supreme talent of its players.
I think qb's in this offense will look better than they do in other places because of the style of offense. Overall, it's about doing the right thing. The offense is a little robotic from a qb standpoint and it doesn't leave room for a lot of creativity. When things do break down and Schaub has to make a decision or make a big time play, I'd say he's well below average in that category.
But when things are going as planned, he is very good at doing what he's supposed to and therefore he'll roast you in those instances.
I think Schaub is about where he should be on that list considering the circumstances, but if I was just going purely off of performance no matter what the circumstances, he'd be higher for sure.
I think we can win a Super Bowl with Schaub because we have a legit #2 playmaker(hopefully). I think Hopkins is going to take this offense to another level. Bonner may be a sleeper as well.
I think qb's in this offense will look better than they do in other places because of the style of offense. Overall, it's about doing the right thing. The offense is a little robotic from a qb standpoint and it doesn't leave room for a lot of creativity. When things do break down and Schaub has to make a decision or make a big time play, I'd say he's well below average in that category.
But when things are going as planned, he is very good at doing what he's supposed to and therefore he'll roast you in those instances.
I think Schaub is about where he should be on that list considering the circumstances, but if I was just going purely off of performance no matter what the circumstances, he'd be higher for sure.
I think we can win a Super Bowl with Schaub because we have a legit #2 playmaker(hopefully). I think Hopkins is going to take this offense to another level. Bonner may be a sleeper as well.
Well, if Schaub had checked down to Foster instead of trying to throw the ball to Walter, he might have had a TD instead of an INT against the Pats.
Schaub was a mess at the end of last year. I'll just erase that from my memory bank for now as he hasn't been THAT bad usually.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
On the original subject - it's too low but who cares.
On the above and not picking on the poster, I am mystified by the Luck love. For example, make an argument Luck is better right now that Wilson - both coming off rookie seasons. He had a good rookie season. It wasn't some epic season.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I don't understand how you can say that a guy who throws as many interceptions and has as bad accuracy as Josh Freeman does is close to Matt Schaub in performance but that's not really close to true unless you are speaking strictly of yardage. And if we're just going to go by numbers, then you can't really say that Josh Freeman's arm is that much stronger than Schaub's since Schaub has had more yards per completion every year that he and Freeman have been starting QB's.
I get it that a lot of people think that Schaub is broken down and hardly better than Blaine Gabbert (Which is cringe-worthy to read on TT, I mean really), but that's not really the case. The guy has done plenty enough while here in Houston for me to be able to say that I believe he can bounce back in 2013 and have a better year than he did in 2012 (you know, the year after he lisfranc'd his foot).
off-season rankings are pretty silly though and are only made to fuel arguments on messageboards.
Well, if Schaub had checked down to Foster instead of trying to throw the ball to Walter, he might have had a TD instead of an INT against the Pats.
We can talk about exceptions all day, but I still feel like he constantly looks to check down or throw it out instead of looking downfield for a better play. The good QB's constantly look downfield for developing options before resorting to a poor check down or throwing it out if there really is no other alternative. I feel, especially near the end of the season, that as soon as he is forced out of the pocket and scrambles, he immediately looks to the check down/throw away as a higher priority option. To me personally, that is simply unacceptable. I understand he is not mobile and has less time, but at least scan downfield and see if you can get a home run out of the breakdown! It just seems like Schaub rushes those poor decisions way too fast, like that pass to Foster where he threw it way too early instead of letting Foster beat his man, which he most definitely would have. Schaub is just not a reliable QB in my eyes. Sure we can win with him, but it will be in spite of him and not because of him.
80tothezone
Veteran
Seriously I mean can we get a stout defense around here!? Or a decent running back?! 10 damn years...
Luck led a far less talented team with no running game or defense to the playoffs. NFL defenses were keyed to stop Luck and struggled to do so. Luck was given more responsibility than Wilson and he stepped up to the plate. I am a huge fan of Wilson but that is an argument for why Luck is better.
I agree with the grouping. I agree with the writer's category, "Limbo" But I don't understand his reasoning, then putting guys like Freeman or Romo ahead of him.
He says Schaub won't win a super bowl without a dominant defense & strong running game. But Freeman will? Romo will? Rivers? Stafford? I'm not seeing it. And Schaub has had more success than all those guys recently.
I still have a problem when people rank Flacco & Ryan better than Schaub. & you're got Ryan at way up there in the top ten.
Then Luck.... I didn't see it when he was at Stanford & I didn't see it as a rookie. Russell Wilson & RG3 were better "quarterbacks" than Luck.
Potential... yeah, I guess he's got it in spades. That might make him a QB I'd rather have, but it doesn't make him a top 10 QB. Not in this league.
Uh... I would have liked to have seen some big numbers weeks 16 & 17. A win in either of those games would have been nice as well.
Wolf
100% Texan
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well, it's an argument but I'm not buying it.
Less talented team I will give you but not as much as the prior season's records imply. NFL defenses were not particularly keyed to stop Luck - we are not talking Peyton Luck here. More responsibility is just supposition. I liked Luck as a rookie but there is no way I would put him at #7. Across the board he has a lot of improvement to make. You aren't going to make it with 54% completions in the modern era - by the way that would translate to last among starting QB's last year.
I've read the entire article, and to be quite honest, some of this writer's "analysis" comes off as man-crush rankings.
i am not some lazy Schuab hater, but he is an okay but limited NFl QB. As he has played for the first 3 or so year of his career Freeman has the same bottom line, but with different strengths and weaknesses than Schuab. Freeman having more arm strength and more mobilty is known not speculation.
I am pretty much convinced (obvious no way to prove) that if you switched those two guys in 2012 that Tampa would have just been out of the playoffs and the Texans would have beat Bengals and lost to the Pats. I don't care that Freeman would have thrown more int or Schaub might have had a higher completion percentage. things would have looked a little different, but neither one in 2012 was clearly better. And yes if I have my choice give the younger average guy over the older average guy, day in and day out.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
13-3 would have been nice, no doubt. But we were having problems with our offensive line at that point. Newton's injury really hurt us. Schaub got sacked 8 times in those two games... 11 in the last 3.
I mean, think about it... in the first 13 games, he's getting sacked at a rate of 1.2 sacks a game but he was getting sacked at a rate of 3.7 sacks a game in the last three games even when they were trying to minimize the dropbacks. There's no way they wanted to go 30+ dropbacks in those games with that line.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Four seasons as a starter hardly gives much credit to the he will improve argument just because he is younger. Freeman is no rookie. Freeman has been wildly erratic as in one year he throws INT's and one year he throws TD's. Seriously look, he alternates years.
Big arm only counts in completions - Freeman 20 + 161 v. Schaub 204, Freeman 40+ 33 v. Schaub 41. A canon which doesn't hit its target is useless. Ask full of potential David Carr.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Agree. Rankings based on performance in '12.
12 -- http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb
11 -- http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2012/Final/QBR/
09 -- http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/p...sort/quarterbackRating/year/2012/seasontype/2
13 -- http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/playersort/NFL/PYDS/2012/post?&_1:col_1=9
12 -- https://www.profootballfocus.com/da...e=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
9/7 -- http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB
I'm not an Eli fan. But I do respect his toughness. There was a game, forgot the specifics, but it was the year they went on to win his first Super Bowl, Eli had been sacked 6 times in the first half of a game. But they needed the win to get to the play-offs.
He played an outstanding 2nd half, they went on to win the game...... the rest
history.
Freeman has also been in more games where it didn't matter. They were losing, or their season was already over. Air it out & see what happens.
If he were in Schaub's situation over the last 4 years, where you're playing more meaningful games, his mistakes & interceptions, & bad plays would turn even more people off.
I understand the thought that he is more athletic. But he's been in the league enough to know that Schaub's got it more upstairs, it's not even close & that difference more than makes up for Schaub's lack of mobility.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
I'll make this short and sweet. Schaub has a more experienced OL this year minus Newton who wasn't great to begin with. AJ, OD, nor Arian are coming off injury. We have a potential offensive ROY at #2 WR. If there isn't a major injury to the team and we get booted before the AFCCG, either Gary or Matt has to go. Maybe both considering the fashion that it's done in.
We have so many above average players on this team. If this team's HC/QB can't get to the AFCCG after 6+ years together, I believe it's time to go with the talent they have had.
We have so many above average players on this team. If this team's HC/QB can't get to the AFCCG after 6+ years together, I believe it's time to go with the talent they have had.
Goatcheese
Texan
I don't see how even the biggest hater could rank Schaub outside of the top 16. He's efficient, reliable and smart with the ball. Who cares if he looks like a dufus and is rocking the personality of a grape fruit?
Even on a down year, Schaub threw for 4k yards 22 TDs and a 90.7 QB rating. Half the guys above him on this garbage list would consider that a career year.
Even on a down year, Schaub threw for 4k yards 22 TDs and a 90.7 QB rating. Half the guys above him on this garbage list would consider that a career year.
I'm not arguing that. Only that there are a lot less good QBs than Matt Schaub.
kingtexan
All Pro
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Hell your over here banging the table for a guy who has a better than zero percent chance of being replaced by a 3rd round rookie. There's a lot of very good reasons that the Bucs aren't nearly as enamored with Freeman as you are, which is all pretty much lined out in the post you responded to.
This is about where I rank him. 15th. Romo as a top ten qb should say everything you need to know about the list. Oh, and Blaine Gabbert above anyone is also absurd. Sanchez is terrible, but hes better than Gabbert and Locker.
You consistently have tried overstate my position here. I read a post where two QBs are on the same tier (which I agree) and i said that all things being equal, I would rather at this point have the guy with more chance at improvement. There was never any Schuab stinks nor Freeman is so wonderful in my comments.
Scooter
Funky
Schaub was 11th in yards, 16th in touchdowns, 13th in passer rating, and tied for 3rd in wins. that's about where he belongs, somewhere in the 11-16 range. to rank him lower is just hating or putting someone else higher based on potential. to rank potential is silly, last year had 4 hall of fame rookies and every team in the league has a young quarterback who's going to 9 probowls based on their potential.
OK, we will use your criteria of yards, TDs, and QB rating to determine where Schaub should rank. Wins is not a QB stat. Football teams win games. So unless you're talking about some fantasy geek win share stats that will give everyone a headache, that shouldn't count. Who are the QBs who are ahead of Schaub in yards, TDs, and/or QB rating?m
All 3 Categories
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Ryan
P. Manning
2 of 3 Categories
Romo
Luck
Freeman
Wilson
Roethlisberger
2 of 3 Categories (if Rushing TDs are included)
Stafford
Palmer
Griffin III
That list puts 13 QBs ahead of Schaub by your criteria. It doesn't include:
Eli Manning
Flacco
Newton
Kaepernick
Do you think there's any team in the NFL that would take Schaub over those 4 QBs? That's 17 QBs ahead of Schaub. And it doesn't include:
Rivers
Cutler
Alex Smith
That's the tier I would put Schaub in. Guys who have had good seasons, but have yet to get over the hump and prove they can carry teams. Vets who have never shown they have that something special to carry teams. That would be:
Rivers
Cutler
Alex Smith
Palmer
Schaub
That would place Schaub between 17-21. Is that really so far off from the #23 ranking he was given? No one is hating or being silly. Matt Schaub is a soon to be 32 year old middle of the road QB who has likely peaked. That's reality.
And I would be happy with that if we knew the Texans were getting the Matt Schaub from of the initial 12 games with a 94.5 QBR and not the Matt Schaub who sputtered into the playoffs with a 78.6 QBR over the last 4 games. Because the Matt Schaub that ended the season is not going to get the Texans where they want to be. No matter where you rank him.
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tru80texan
Waterboy
I would have to agree. I think Schaub is at the top of the group you listed him in, but I believe there are young QB's such as Stafford & Newton who have the potential to grow & separate themselves from him. The criteria of team wins that another poster listed doesn't paint the full picture of the potential of an individual player & Stafford & Newton seem to be perfect examples of that. Their teams struggled but that doesn't diminish their overall talent imo.
Schaub is good but faultered at the end of last season. It remains to be seen if it was just a temporary slump or the beginning of deteriorated skills. Time will tell.