srrono
All Pro
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The Cost Of James Casey*UPDATE* Cut by Eagles
- Thread starter srrono
- Start date
I like James Casey but honestly I'd like a real Vonta like FB in the game on short yardage or goal line situations. I like the way he's used out of the backfield in the passing game but he just isn't used enough to justify a roster spot. I also don't think that Casey ever took near enough heat for dropping that TD pass in the first drive of our playoff game against New England. That pass from Schaub was perfect and hit Casey right in the hands at the 4 yd. line when he had his man beat and was an easy TD. Imagine how the momentum and flow of the game would have changed if we had scored a TD there. I like the guy just not sure if there's room on the roster for a #2FB, provided we get a real FB, or #4TE, hoping that we take Michael Williams-TE in the 5th round of the draft.
srrono
All Pro
Kyle Juszczyk FB Harvard Sr 6-1 248 was a stndout at Senior Bowl week he is projected from a 6th rounder to a UFA in the draft I am hoping HOU grabs him. Juszczyk was stoning guys over and over on NFL Network broadcast of Senior Bowl practices.
eriadoc
Texan-American
The Texans had one on their roster this year and didn't use him (Clutts).
Fans often define a bit player's career on one mistake. Casey has done enough to wipe that mistake out a dozen times over, but people will hammer that play until the end of time. Get over it is the best I can tell you. He has a lower drop percentage than most pass catchers on the team and there were tons of other plays and factors that lost that game for the team.
I'm honestly not seeing him as the play-making mismatch he was touted to be. He gets schemed open, but looks slow when he catches the ball..... slower than OD. He's thick, but not particularly physical when fighting for position or trying to get separation.
He's not a mismatch in the sense of having Arian at fb, but by fb standards he's a mismatch. He's faster than most true fb's and can run longer routes and make catches further down the field than most fb's can.
That doesn't mean he's going to look like Wes welker or Arian foster when he goes up against lb'ers. It just means that he provides a different dynamic from the position than the traditional fb, and either 1) he's not good enough to get open or 2) we don't do a good enough job of using the skills he has.
I'd go with 2 since I've seen him get open a bunch against lb'ers in covg.
Like Wolf6151 said so well, Casey muffed the biggest reception chance of his life and that's unfortunate for him and the Texans because it was such an important play for both and Casey reportedly has the best hands on the team, but he wasn't clutch when he had to be. Besides if we release him he can probably find a place some place else where he gets more opps. And we could use a real thumper at FB, if only in non-nickle situations.
If Casey was used right that wouldn't be the case. If Kubiak is going to continue to under utilize his abilities then we might as well let him go and bring in a pure blocking FB.
Wow, your jumping to the extreme here. I never said anything about defining Casey's career by this one mistake. No one on the team is above taking some heat for a really big mistake in the biggest playoff game in team history, and just because I mention it one time as a topic of discussion doesn't mean I'm "hammering that play until the end of time". Being a little overly dramatic? Also I'm not sure how you think he's "wiped out that mistake a dozen times over" since he's only been in 4 playoff games in his career and has a grand total of 4 total touchdowns in his 4 yr. career, I'm not sure if any of those were in a playoff game. I know there were other factors that caused us to lose that game, I never said Casey was the sole reason. In the future please read my post before you respond to it.
deucetx
Rookie
Guess it depends on how other teams vision him. Do they see a tight end instead of a FB? I would like to retain him but really don't want to see him as a FB. He is not a strong lead blocker and you add that to the fact we have two young players on the right (one of which struggled in run blocking) and only one tight end that can block (Graham as O.D. is awful) and it makes life hard on Foster and company. We need a real lead blocker and Kubiak and company need to find a better way of utilizing Casey if retained.
Really?!?
What??
I can't think of a single game last season where he stood out.
...well, except for the playoff game where he played butter fingers with a perfectly thrown ball.
I'm probably the only one who'll admit to this but If he stays, meh
and if he goes, maybe we'll get someone who can catch.
eriadoc
Texan-American
That's why I didn't say "wolf6151 defines Casey's career by this one mistake". I said fans do, as in a general observation. I can bring up former players and inevitably the first thing some fans will remember is some mistake that player made. Hell, try having an objective conversation about Jabar Gaffney, for example.
I can't think of a single game where Wade Smith stood out either, but he was named to the Pro Bowl. The Texans rarely ask Casey to do something that "stands out". When he makes a ten yard reception, are you cataloging that in your head as a standout play? When he puts on a good block at the goal line for Arian Foster (just one play I remember), do you catalog that in your head as a standout play?
Whatever people think Casey might be capable of, the coaching staff asks him to do a specific job, and he's done it well enough to where we don't hear his name. That's a good thing for his position. Now, if he were actually a TE and playing that position, maybe your argument would make sense. But he isn't.
And just for reference, people didn't "notice" Leach until the TV announcers started talking about him. I'm not comparing Casey to Leach, but I am comparing the glamor status of the position. You have to be completely outstanding to garner any attention from the FB position.
None of this has any bearing on whether or not the team should keep him, however.
GP
Go Texans!
I don't think the Patriots would target him. They're using Woodhead in that role already.
I think the Pats will go after Percy Harvin and let Welker walk.
Anybody here think the idea of Tom Brady throwing to Percy Harvin is just unfair to the rest of the NFL on many levels? Yeah, me too!
For as good and reliable as Welker is, Harvin is an upgrade.
I think the Pats will go after Percy Harvin and let Welker walk.
Anybody here think the idea of Tom Brady throwing to Percy Harvin is just unfair to the rest of the NFL on many levels? Yeah, me too!
For as good and reliable as Welker is, Harvin is an upgrade.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
No reason you shouldn't. Casey personally had a better year catching the ball than Leach ever did, and the running game overall had more yards/TD's than in any of Leach's five years starting at FB.
What exactly did he not give this team that Leach did? And if the answer is goal line presence, before Foster came along in Leach's last year, this team had 12-15 rushing TD's a year. They were either not getting the opportunity, in which case it is a moot point, or they were not taking advantage of it, which means we have romanticized the contributions that Leach provided.
If we judge Casey's performance as a FB, and not try to wrap logic around he is a FB but should play like a TE, then Casey gave a better performance this year stats-wise than the year that Leach cashed in on as a free agent.
And people were cutting their wrists over Leach leaving...
Texaninlild
Veteran
I was thinking this battering ram of a young man would be a great add. He does not have the hands of Casey although he is athletic and appears to catch well out of the backfield.
I only want Casey back if he is utilized in a manner that suits his skills out of the backfield.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Casey most likely will not return. Juszczyk could be a great addition. He has consistently shown solid hands. Unlike Leach, he doesn't go down on first contact.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=97736&draftyear=2013&genpos=TE
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Pretty simple math replace a 5th rd. pick (Casey) with a better prospect in 6th (Kyle) doesn't really = does it? Juszczyk is a football player, pure & simple. If want to improve position at least use a late 5th if not forget about it.
Also why would Kubiak get rid of a player he clearly loves, developed & adopted? I think he will keep him, have him cut some weight, get quicker & use three TE sets more. Casey is not a fullback. He is good enough to block outside & down the field.
One more thing about the Harvard kid, he is not a battering ram. He is no Leach Leach uses smarts, is fundamentally sound blocker, good explosiveness with passion for taking care of assignments. He could be a sneaky weapon out of the backfield after securing max protection.
Also why would Kubiak get rid of a player he clearly loves, developed & adopted? I think he will keep him, have him cut some weight, get quicker & use three TE sets more. Casey is not a fullback. He is good enough to block outside & down the field.
One more thing about the Harvard kid, he is not a battering ram. He is no Leach Leach uses smarts, is fundamentally sound blocker, good explosiveness with passion for taking care of assignments. He could be a sneaky weapon out of the backfield after securing max protection.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I think when you compare other FB's in the league Casey makes a ton of plays out of the backfield or even running a route. Foster runs out of a single back set quite often so I'm not as worried about how his blocking is (Which is adequate, but certainly not all-world).
I hope that we retain him because I think his versatility means he could go in with 3 TE sets that we've seen a few times, as well as being in the FB spot as well, but I don't think he's worth an entire million against the cap.
I hope that we retain him because I think his versatility means he could go in with 3 TE sets that we've seen a few times, as well as being in the FB spot as well, but I don't think he's worth an entire million against the cap.
What do you think would be a fair price for Casey. We said no to paying Leach $3M/yr (I think) & Dressen signed a 3 year $8.5M contract, just under $3M/yr.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Leach left, running game degrades as the games go by. What is more important than a top running game to the Kubiak offense? Nothing. Casey makes a few catches but really doesn't do much....Casey is the one being romanticized.
"Welker became the first player in NFL history with five seasons of 100 or more catches, breaking a record he shared with Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison and Brandon Marhsall."
Source
Arian Foster missed him greatly and Ray Rice loves him dearly.
I think the smartest man in the room is thinking too hard on Kirby Drive.
So you agree it's funny to think Harvin is an upgrade over Welker??
yep.
Losing Brisiel and Winston hurt us a lot more than losing Leach.
However, being that Foster still ran for 1400 yards in 2012, the future is looking bright.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
so the reason we need to keep him is the fear of what he could do with the patriots? that is real weak.
dude is not a fullback. nice TE. he gets destroyed more often than not in the gap. blood on the moon.
we need a more stocky. low center of gravity gap creator. or just run single back all the time and add the extra receiver.
dude is not a fullback. nice TE. he gets destroyed more often than not in the gap. blood on the moon.
we need a more stocky. low center of gravity gap creator. or just run single back all the time and add the extra receiver.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
JMHO This team has denied a need for an unmoveable FB battering ram as much as they have denied a need for an unmoveable NT batering ram in the middle.
Where'd that come from?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Yup. They dont like prototypes in those positions. They prefer more athletic types they then refuse to use according to the players skill set.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Not sure I understand the degrading of the running game.
2012 = 2123/4.2 YPC/19 TD
2011 = 2448/4.5 YPC/18 TD
Leach's last year in 2010: 2043/4.8 YPC/20 TD
If you look at the total production in the two years he has been in Baltimore compared with the two years before he got there (Rice has been there four years = 2 with and 2 without), the Ravens running game has virtually the same yards, APC and TD's. 2000/4.3/16
If you want to point to YPC decrease, especially this year, there are so many factors: time killing running plays in 4th quarters, new right side of O-line, Tate not being able to keep himself healthy.
And yet, in spite of all that they still finished in the top 10 for rushing yards and top 5 for rushing TD's. Throw in the fact that they were a top 10 passing team as well, and only one team in the NFL had more passing AND rushing yards, the Patriots.
So in the end, the Texans let Leach walk and kept their production. The Ravens gave him a huge contract, and kept their production. I'm going to say the Texans made out just fine in the deal.
As far as Casey goes, he either gave you better production out of the backfield in the passing game than Leach ever did in his 5 years here, or he gave you #2 TE stats, because his numbers this year were comparable to the last three years that Dreesen had. Considering that Graham was the #2 TE and did not get as targeted as much as Casey did as the FB, especially considering the two-TE sets that this team employs, it shows that Casey could be a very adequate #2 TE.
I'm not stating that Casey is or ever will be the pure blocking FB that Leach was. Casey should not be paid big FB money because he is a hybrid. But let's not pretend that he was hot garbage out there and him walking away would not a detriment to this offense.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
deucetx
Rookie
Couple of things when comparing the running game. In 2011 it was not all Casey. it was Vickers too. In fact, they nearly evenly split the run blocking plays that season (Casey 215; Vickers 204) which sort of tells you how the team felt about Casey's run blocking abilities since Vickers had a total of 281 plays and they were all mainly for run blocking.
None the less take PFF grades. Since 2008 Leach was top three in run blocking every season except the one we had Slaton and Moats sharing the load. Even one season Slaton averaged 4.8 with Leach. Casey? He has been graded as one of the worst run blocking fullbacks in the league generally graded in '11 and '12 in the 20's (24th and then 21st).
So yeah at FB from the blocking perspective he has been hot garbage or maybe lukewarm garbage, heh. He has other benefits which are better to be focused on while letting someone else field the lead blocking role.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Here is the deal. They had "that guy" that everyone thinks we need in the FB role, and were not willing to pay him market price. They've brought in others like him, and finally gave the role to hybrid TE. That tells me that they may not value the traditional FB role as much as some here think they should, or at least were not going to pay for it.
Casey came in and succeeded in the opportunities that were given to him. They did not ask him to be a Leach. They asked him to do something different. He was on pace for 40+ catches on the season until the last 5 games when the offense sputtered to 18 points a game. Only one FB had more receptions than Casey on the year, even with only 6 receptions in the last 5 games. Foster had 13 of his 17 rushing TD's from 3 yards or less, and while I don't have the data handy, I'll go on a limb and say Casey was lead blocker in goal situations.
I'm not going to argue that he is comparable to Leach from a blocking perspective, because he isn't. But in the role that they have placed him in, he is doing his part to make this team successful while being an incredible value financially. Casey is not hurting this team, and there are much easier targets on both sides of the ball where we can point to about needing improved play.
Casey will get more than the $615K he made this season. He deserves it and the Texans should pay it. But he shouldn't break the bank, and I doubt the team will put an offer on the table that will. If he goes in FA as a TE to another club, then so be it. But I think it would be stupid for the team to simply let him walk. He is way too versatile a player. IMHO.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In case no one noticed, stout Brandon Brooks was called in on goal line situations quite a bit to act as lead blocker.
deucetx
Rookie
I agree though I rather see him at tight end. I like Daniels receiving wise but he can't block for crap. Casey has to be somewhat an improvement there and most likely can catch just as good as O.D. with a better chance at YAC. Could just be me but as the season went on Daniels didn't seem the same.
Something tells me though teams will look Casey as more of a TE than a FB and offer him better money than the Texans. I hope not but I still haven't developed faith in Rick Smith's abilities to work magic with salaries so here's to hoping it works out that we don't lose one of the actual athletic pieces on offense we actually have.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
If he leaves, it is definitely as a TE. I can't imagine that he has that much market value as a FB considering the hybrid role he has played here.
OD had a respectable 4.8 YAC this year, and overall was obviously his best year in about four years thanks to injuries. Even though Casey had a 6.5 YAC, that may have been more scheme than anything else with passes to the flat and releasing from the backfield giving him more open space. It seems like towards the end of the season, Schaub was constantly throwing to OD right at the sideline on 5 yard out routes.
ASidd_1990
Waterboy
He's a good TE but he not really a great blocking FB in the mold of a Vonte Leach or Lawerence Vickers.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I think in a league where teams are mixing up the offenses, they see a lot of potential in his jack of all trades style. Use him at H-Back, TE, split him out. I've seen many people talking about how he is a hot commodity. I think you can do more with him than just say .."play FB this series" and "play TE" this series. I think he could be used more like Aaron Hernandez.