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Connor Barwin?

ChampionTexan said:
Well, he's gone to the Pro Bowl four times (in four years), and made All Pro for the 2010 season, so I'm wondering if some of the Miami fans aren't just a little bit unrealistic/biased in their evaluations. You can argue about whether he's one of the best in the game, but to argue that he is a bust is moronic.

That said, I thought at the time and I still think they should have taken Matt Ryan instead of Long.
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I was poking fun at Mia fans....

Couldn't believe that someone started a thread on their board wondering if he was a bust...
 
beerlover said:
DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4 are interchangeable if they are elite. Question that needs to be asked, is Connor Barwin elite?

Jury is out. This is his chance to prove he is.
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Yes , they are interchangable .... but not according to the franchise tag numbers as would have been the case for MW last season.

From what I understand , the franchise tag pays 120% of the previous years salary or the average of the top five players at the players position - Whichever is greater.

That number for MW was in the ~$8m range if I recall correctly(off the top of my head) .... but because of his $18m in previous years salary , the tag would have cost ~$21m which made it impossible to use the tag on him.


$8m for one season spent on Barwin wouldnt upset me terribly if they had to use the tag.

EDIT

Dan Explained it better (MSR) .... Didnt see this as I stopped to respond to your post before reading the rest of the thread.

disaacks3 said:
True, but there's a bit of difference in the Tag numbers.

Here are the 2012 tag amounts:

Quarterback: $14.436 million
Running back: $7.742 million
Wide receiver: $9.515 million
Tight end: $5.446 million
Offensive line: $9.383 million
Defensive end: $10.605 million
Defensive tackle: $7.96 million
Linebacker: $8.856 million
Cornerback: $10.281 million
Safety: $6.212 million
Kicker/Punter: $2.654 million
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Corrosion said:
I think Barwin gets franchised if they cant work something out ....:shades:
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That's a really interesting point that I didn't think out too well. With Schaub, signed, sealed and delivered this is a distinct possibility. Where did you come up with that???? ;)


At the end of the day, Barwin would be a relatively cheap "franchise player" compared to say Dumbta, no? Or Schaub for that matter (if they didn't choose to extend him), no??
 
Corrosion said:
Yes , they are interchangable .... but not according to the franchise tag numbers as would have been the case for MW last season.

From what I understand , the franchise tag pays 120% of the previous years salary or the average of the top five players at the players position - Whichever is greater.

That number for MW was in the ~$8m range if I recall correctly(off the top of my head) .... but because of his $18m in previous years salary , the tag would have cost ~$21m which made it impossible to use the tag on him.


$8m for one season spent on Barwin wouldnt upset me terribly if they had to use the tag.

EDIT

Dan Explained it better (MSR) .... Didnt see this as I stopped to respond to your post before reading the rest of the thread.
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If Mercilus and Brooks are what Phillips thinks they are we would be foolish to pay anywhere near that for Barwin unless he sacks over 18 & probably not then. Let him go if we have to cap him at more than $5m first year. Reed, Mercilus and Devin Taylor would keep cost down & productivity high. Taylor a DE switches to OLB. 6'7" 267lbs

Taylor all star candidate for South Carolina has played in 39 games over the past three seasons making 32 starts... credited with 116 tackles, 27.0 tackles for loss, 15.5 sacks and 19 quarterback hurries... ranks among the Gamecocks' career top-10 in both sacks (tied for 5th) and tackles for loss (tied for 9th)... earned All-SEC honors in each of the past two http://www.gamecocksonline.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/taylor_devin00.htmlseasons.
 
Texan_Bill said:
That's a really interesting point that I didn't think out too well. With Schaub, signed, sealed and delivered this is a distinct possibility. Where did you come up with that???? ;)


At the end of the day, Barwin would be a relatively cheap "franchise player" compared to say Dumbta, no? Or Schaub for that matter (if they didn't choose to extend him), no??
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You know where I got that idea .... I pulled it outa my ass ;)

Dan posted the list of tag values above for players who fall within the top five average rule. Barwin would fall there as his salary is nowhere near that now.

What made MW untagable was the value on the final year of his deal being so rich .... tagging him would have meant paying 120% of that final years salary.
We had a sticky thread with player salary's but its no longer stickied.
I dont know offhand what Schaubs salary is for this season but I believe he would have fallen into the top 5 rule prior to his extension making his tag number ~$14m.

Dont recall what Dunta's situation was ....


Can one of the mods resticky the salary thread ?! Or maybe someone can post an updated list.
 
badboy said:
If Mercilus and Brooks are what Phillips thinks they are we would be foolish to pay anywhere near that for Barwin unless he sacks over 18 & probably not then. Let him go if we have to cap him at more than $5m first year. Reed, Mercilus and Devin Taylor would keep cost down & productivity high. Taylor a DE switches to OLB. 6'7" 267lbs
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I agree in as much as Barwin's number needs to be in line for what he is, his production, vs his "potential" we don't need to overpay him, just because we know someone will as a FA.

Like I said earlier, he's really a SOLB in a 3-4, playing the pass rusher (3-4) position at WOLB. & that should be taken into account. I may be wrong about who he is & I'm fine with that. If he proves me wrong & put up premier pass rushing numbers..... 15+ then pay him, tag him. But if he can't get 15 sacks in Wade's system, let someone else pay him.

However, I don't want to draft another 1st round pass rusher. We can't keep doing that & continue to build a solid well balanced team.

Ω
 
Fiddler said:
I agree in as much as Barwin's number needs to be in line for what he is, his production, vs his "potential" we don't need to overpay him, just because we know someone will as a FA.

Like I said earlier, he's really a SOLB in a 3-4, playing the pass rusher (3-4) position at WOLB. & that should be taken into account. I may be wrong about who he is & I'm fine with that. If he proves me wrong & put up premier pass rushing numbers..... 15+ then pay him, tag him. But if he can't get 15 sacks in Wade's system, let someone else pay him.

However, I don't want to draft another 1st round pass rusher. We can't keep doing that & continue to build a solid well balanced team.

Ω
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I'm ok with drafting OLBs fairly high as we are lowering the age but keeping experience. Barwin gets increased sacks under Wade's system just like Reed and Merci will. 2013 Reed will be in 3rd year & Mercilus second at 26 and 23. Reed has 3 years left topping out in 2014 at $1m and WHitney three more with cap hit of slightly over $2m each. Let Barwin go (unless cost is right) and draft another OLB (mine in 3rd) & you have two vets that basically have to just turn it lose after the QB and a rookie breaking in. I think that is a seasoned well balanced team. OLBs don't take years to develop like QBs, LT or CBs.
 
According to Pro Football Weekly, the Texans are considering using the franchise tag on OLB Connor Barwin this offseason.

The Texans gave Matt Schaub a $30 million extension after sides reportedly "hit a snag" before the start of the regular season. Barwin, an unrestricted free agent, will need to be franchised if a long-term deal can't be reached. With Schaub and LT Duane Brown recently signed, the Texans don't have any other obvious candidates with expiring contracts. The franchise tender for outside linebackers was $8.8 million in 2012.
Source: Pro Football Weekly Sep 22 - 7:58 PM
 
I like Barwin, but I don't think you overpay for him. I'd rather free up the cap space when we need to sign players like Watt or Tate in the future. It's also a symptom of the new player deal that rookies are more valuable to a team because you don't have to pay them much.
 
I want us to keep Barwin, because Barwin. Watt, Reed and some of the others on defense seem to have great chemistry and it will only make our defense better if this core doesn't get broke up.
 
I believe i heard Barwins name 2-3 times throughout the entire game? I blame the hair being cut off. Lost his mojo
 
Yea, not sure what the problem is, but he is just not good this season AT ALL. He has applied little pressure and no sacks, plus is not good in coverage. If he continues to play like this, I would not doubt if we see more Mercilus
 
If he keeps bulking 3-4 DE is a possibility. Honestly its very hard to tell with Wade Phillips game calling this year, his best move is a bull rush then he drops into coverage I don't get it?
 
It may have been said, but him bulking up in the offseason may have had a negative effect on him. Hopefully he can get it going soon.
 
I've been saying it since the preseason that Barwin has lost a step and looks much slower in his pass rush. There was next to no pressure from the edge in todays game.
 
wolf123 said:
I've been saying it since the preseason that Barwin has lost a step and looks much slower in his pass rush. There was next to no pressure from the edge in todays game.
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Brooks Reed got good pressure today. Braman and Reed and Mercilus got this.

Barwin should have tried to score a decent extension prior to this season. I wonder if his asking price was too high, if the agent's strategy was to let him play hard this season and gamble for a big raise, or if the Texans aren't even interested in his extension due to being a bit stacked at OLB.
 
GP said:
Brooks Reed got good pressure today. Braman and Reed and Mercilus got this.

Barwin should have tried to score a decent extension prior to this season. I wonder if his asking price was too high, if the agent's strategy was to let him play hard this season and gamble for a big raise, or if the Texans aren't even interested in his extension due to being a bit stacked at OLB.
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From what I've heard he was asking for a lot and texans weren't willing to pay it.
 
Connor Who? Is he still on the team this year?

I don't remember hearing his name called once today, or even last week.
 
Conner gambled by not accepting a contract, and if he continues to not make a big impact he's going to lose big. He's funneling some sacks to the inside guys, but if he doesn't put up numbers he won't get paid big. It's as simple as that.
 
I guess you all failed to watch the Bronco's run game go nowhere because of the entire front.

You also have to take into consideration that many plays are designed to free up a specific individual .... thats unselfish play. This team is thinking about :trophy: not :money:


Win the :trophy: and the :money: will come.
 
Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year.

After his third game last year he had one less tackle and one more sack than he's registered so far this season.

He'll be 26 years old in October, so I can't imagine that he's lost any athleticism.
 
Barwin should have stuck with what worked so well last season. He is not getting a sweet deal as a DE.
 
TexansFanatic said:
Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year.

After his third game last year he had one less tackle and one more sack than he's registered so far this season.

He'll be 26 years old in October, so I can't imagine that he's lost any athleticism.
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Regardless of stats his play is not the same.
 
hmmm maybe its just me but i always see barwin getting some pressure, usually making the QB step up in the pocket, or making the QB run out of the pocket. Causing bad throws and making the QB step up can be as good as sacks....
 
EllisUnit said:
hmmm maybe its just me but i always see barwin getting some pressure, usually making the QB step up in the pocket, or making the QB run out of the pocket. Causing bad throws and making the QB step up can be as good as sacks....
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I think your right but if Barwin wants to maximize his leverage and money he better start getting sacks. I am sure the coaching staff is happy with his effort but his agent and wife are not. When you pay an OLB top 5% you better have more than 0 sacks after week 3.
 
Yeah, I don't mind the lack of sacks but I haven't really noticed him being a force on the weakside. I can't imagine Mercilus sitting on the bench this much if the level of production stays the same. Not down on him yet but a bit curious where his spin move went...
 
Kubiak on Barwin

Kubiak said he’s not concerned that outside linebacker Connor Barwin doesn’t have a sack after leading the team with 11 1/2 last season.

“Connor’s playing extremely well,” Kubiak said. “Those things (sacks) will come. He plays with tremendous effort, and those things will happen for him.”
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You can never be certain what Gary is thinking though.....He used to say the same sort of things about Mario when Mario would disappear.
 
DX-TEX said:
Yep. JJ will start drawing double teams then Barwin will bust out.

Pick your poison.
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He's already beating double teams & so is Antonio. They'll have to do something else, & that's when it's going to get crazy. Three tight end sets, 2 receiver patterns... then Wade starts throwing safeties blitzes...

I can't wait.

There was one play, the one where Jj does a beautiful arm over swim move on a guard, then punks the RB in the backfield & sacked Manning the same time Antonio got there after splitting a Center/Guard double.
 
I like how a Conner Barwin thread derails into how awesome JJ Watt is. Can't blame you though. He is awesome.

Someone mentioned Barwin moving inside to DE. Never going to happen. He's a natural 3-4 OLB, and keeping that position keeps his market value up.

Barwin will do fine this season. But it will probably be his last in Houston.
 
Brisco_County said:
I like how a Conner Barwin thread derails into how awesome JJ Watt is. Can't blame you though. He is awesome.

Someone mentioned Barwin moving inside to DE. Never going to happen. He's a natural 3-4 OLB, and keeping that position keeps his market value up.

Barwin will do fine this season. But it will probably be his last in Houston.
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Barwin is a strongside 3-4 OLB. We've got him playing on the wrong side.
 
Brisco_County said:
I like how a Conner Barwin thread derails into how awesome JJ Watt is. Can't blame you though. He is awesome.

Someone mentioned Barwin moving inside to DE. Never going to happen. He's a natural 3-4 OLB, and keeping that position keeps his market value up.

Barwin will do fine this season. But it will probably be his last in Houston.
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Who is going to replace Barwin? I really feel like our LB corp has dropped off hard from last year and there seems to be no end in sight
 
you guys know he's gone against jake long and ryan clady, right? plus i dont think wade is blitzing his OLBs as much as he did last season.
 
SteveSlaton20 said:
you guys know he's gone against jake long and ryan clady, right? plus i dont think wade is blitzing his OLBs as much as he did last season.
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We've got 4 or 5 guys coming pretty much every play that we're in the 3-4 alignment. Connor's getting his rushes.

We're tied for 6th in sacks. We're in first for allowing the fewest yards per pass attempt. We're 4th in yards per game. And we're 4th in opponents QB rating.

We're getting pressure. We're forcing bad throws (which should have resulted in more interceptions if our DBs didn't have hands of granite.) We're doing OK even though we're not getting big production from Connor, Brooks, or Mercilus, yet.

Yet.
 
TexansFanatic said:
Kubiak on Barwin



You can never be certain what Gary is thinking though.....He used to say the same sort of things about Mario when Mario would disappear.
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Yeah, but Barwin hasn't disapeared.. He's supplied pressure plenty of times so far. He's just been beat to the QB or the QB got the ball out. Fans put too much weight on sacks, Barwin isn't being stone walled our there, He's pressuring the QB. Kubiak is right, the sacks will come and this is a non issue for me.
 
SteveSlaton20 said:
you guys know he's gone against jake long and ryan clady, right? plus i dont think wade is blitzing his OLBs as much as he did last season.
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Pro Football Focus agrees with you....

Perfect in Pass Protection
After a disappointing 2011 by his standards, offensive tackle Ryan Clady has been playing as well as any OT in the league in 2012. He was outstanding on Sunday, as he did not surrender a QB Disruption on his 60 pass block attempts. Through three games, he’s given up only one QB hit on his 136 attempts. Clady is a player who often lives off reputation after he did not surrender a sack during his rookie season in 2008, but he was actually much better in 2009 and 2010 before taking a step back last season. Continued strong play will keep his reputation matched up with on-field production.

As Manning continues to shake the rust from his season away from the game, Clady’s blindside protection will go a long way toward increasing his comfort level in the pocket.

Game Notes
- Houston used 3-WR sets only 13 times, which in turn, kept pass rush specialist OLB Von Miller in his 4-3 OLB spot more often. He only rushed the passer 13 times while dropping into coverage on 18 snaps

- Texans OLB Connor Barwin was the man going up against Clady more often than not. Barwin finished without a pressure on his 51 rushes.

- (Peyton) Manning was 6-for-16 for 73 yards and a -2.2 grade when the Texans blitzed.
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TexansFanatic said:
Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year.

After his third game last year he had one less tackle and one more sack than he's registered so far this season.

He'll be 26 years old in October, so I can't imagine that he's lost any athleticism.
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Here are his stats:
2009: 4.5 sacks
2010: injured in game 1. 0 stats
2011: 11.5 sacks
2012: thus far 0 sacks

Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year but only 4.5 combined the previous two. He does not have a positive track record in this department. He does not get the benefit of the doubt $ wise becuase he has not shown consistency yet over multiple seasons.
 
Barwin is one of my favorite players on the team, and the fact that he became 'the guy' after Mario got injured last year means that people will and did scheme against him and he's had to deal with some of the better LTs in the game.

Even then, there have been at least two occasions where he's gotten to the QB, but only a millisecond after Watt has. Barwin doesn't look like he's given up, it's simply a matter of being outshone by a potential MVP/DPoY player and being on a team of great pass rushers, rather than being the sole one.
 
bhsman said:
Barwin is one of my favorite players on the team, and the fact that he became 'the guy' after Mario got injured last year means that people will and did scheme against him and he's had to deal with some of the better LTs in the game.

Even then, there have been at least two occasions where he's gotten to the QB, but only a millisecond after Watt has. Barwin doesn't look like he's given up, it's simply a matter of being outshone by a potential MVP/DPoY player and being on a team of great pass rushers, rather than being the sole one.
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One of many does not get him a one of a kind contract. He needs sackos to get pesos.
 
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