Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

C

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
There is no longer any reason why he should be the #2 WR any more.

Start Jean outside opposite Andre and make Keshawn the guy that you move in and out of the slot.
 
Not going to happen. Kubes won't have a rookie and guy coming off the practice squad at WR2 and WR3.
Walter is an above average downfield blocker, and knows where he is supposed to be on any given play.
 
Carr Bombed said:
There is no longer any reason why he should be the #2 WR any more.

Start Jean outside opposite Andre and make Keshawn the guy that you move in and out of the slot.
Click to expand...

I was thinking Martin #2, Jean #3, and Walter #4.

Has Posey even caught a pass yet?
 
Carr Bombed said:
There is no longer any reason why he should be the #2 WR any more.

Start Jean outside opposite Andre and make Keshawn the guy that you move in and out of the slot.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to lean that way....

A lot if people acting like there is no way this'll happen and I just disagree. A lot of people were shocked when Demeco was traded and felt like that wouldn't happen either.

I don't know if they start the season ahead of Walter, but if they keep this up they'll definitely eat into his snaps.
 
Kevin Walter will always have a moment in Texans history with his game winning TD to seal our first AFC division title.

But if if Jean and Martin can produce and show they know where to be, then I don't see why we can't usher in the next era of Texan receivers.
 
FWIW, Walter had his man beat for a TD in the end zone, but Schaub threw it too high on what was I think his only real incompletion.
 
i see it like this

#1 AJ

#2 Posey/KW

#3 SLot Martin

#4 Jean

#6 Kick returner Holiday


has u can see we have to many good WR's kinda a good problem but

has i see it right now and even tho it sucks If it was me i would have to Cut KW and Holiday
 
Norg said:
i see it like this

#1 AJ

#2 Posey/KW

#3 SLot Martin

#4 Jean

#6 Kick returner Holiday
Click to expand...

Personally, I want to see Jean take over Walter's spot, and I added the Posey pick to my mental list of WTF moments that Smithiak has committed.

That said, If Matt throws a catchable ball in the first quarter to Walter in the end zone, I suspect tonight's conversation might have a slightly different tone to it.
 
michaelm said:
Not going to happen. Kubes won't have a rookie and guy coming off the practice squad at WR2 and WR3.
Walter is an above average downfield blocker, and knows where he is supposed to be on any given play.
Click to expand...

Im tired of hearing about Kevin Walter's run blocking.. if this is the case let's just line a FB out wide.

His primary job is to catch footballs and make plays... so how many catches does he have this preseason? Fact is, he's being out played by two young bucks.. young bucks who are much better playmakers and much more explosive. Also from what I've seen so far, it looks like they know where to be as well.. it's not like they need a map in order to line up.

This offense needs more players who can score from anywhere on the field. Where we don't have to rely on stringing together a bunch of plays. Walter is not that guy.
 
Too many good WRs?!?

We have one good WR (when healthy) Johnson.

One pretty good, KW.

And a bunch of unproven young guys. Let's see how they react when the bullets are real and the D actually game plans.
 
eriadoc said:
Personally, I want to see Jean take over Walter's spot, and I added the Posey pick to my mental list of WTF moments that Smithiak has committed.

That said, If Matt throws a catchable ball in the first quarter to Walter in the end zone, I suspect tonight's conversation might have a slightly different tone to it.
Click to expand...

I've seen Walter catch a TD or two since he's been here. Catching one in the preseason wouldn't really change my opinion of him. He doesn't have the blazing speed to make me think he's going to behind too many defenses. I don't see him pulling away from anyone, breaking any ankles..... or changing the game.

Walter is a #3 in this league.

That said, I haven't seen enough of the kids to suggest they should supplant him. But I am liking what I've seen so far.
Posey was a third round pick, he might be the best of the bunch, but it may take time before he catches on. Keyshawn.... a lower pick than Posey seems like he was born for this. That's special, & rare. LeSean, if he hadn't got hurt last year, I think Jacoby wouldn't have made the team last season.....
 
Tbh I think kw is a good wr, I just think we can do better at his position. He'd make excellent depth though.
 
eriadoc said:
That said, If Matt throws a catchable ball in the first quarter to Walter in the end zone, I suspect tonight's conversation might have a slightly different tone to it.
Click to expand...

For me it wouldn't be.. I'm sure if Jean would've ran the same route on the same play he would've been available to over throw as well. You see it's not about one random catch or even one random TD reception.. it's about the amount of targets or should I say the amount of times that you're targeted. It sure is funny how Jean and Martin get multiple passes thrown their way regardless who is the QB, but all Walter will get is his one lone token pass... maybe. That right there tells me he does not get open/seperation on a consistent basis.

I used to defend Walter with all the "but he's a good run blocker" crap as well, but after last season I was done with him. With Andre down and with his only real competition being a bipoler Jones the guy still couldn't get targeted consistently.. and I don't think it had anything to do with Schaub or T.J. After that it became deafening how greatly we needed to upgrade the #2 WR position.
 
Last edited:
Kevin Walter isn't going to be benched, that's not happening. But, the fact this thread even exists means we believe our WR situation isn't as dire as we thought. And that's a very good thing.
 
Norg said:
i see it like this

#1 AJ

#2 Posey/KW

#3 SLot Martin

#4 Jean

#6 Kick returner Holiday


has u can see we have to many good WR's kinda a good problem but

has i see it right now and even tho it sucks If it was me i would have to Cut KW and Holiday
Click to expand...
I disagree with you on this one. What has Posey done to earn the #2 spot? IMO its a 3 way battle for the second spot between Martin, Jean, and Walter. Posey has played himself onto the practice squad cus there is no way I am cutting Holliday, an actual productive player, in favor of Posey. I dont care where Posey was drafted.
 
Nah, you keep him for this season.

He is proven, knows the system, run blocks well, and has sticky hands. He wont put up awesome stats, but he has a role.

Now, his playing time could be reduced based on the situation on the field.
 
Thorn said:
Kevin Walter isn't going to be benched, that's not happening. But, the fact this thread even exists means we believe our WR situation isn't as dire as we thought. And that's a very good thing.
Click to expand...

Yep. Kubiak likes Walter too much. According to him Kevin Walter will one day cure world hunger, while blocking the looters.
 
TEXANRED said:
I disagree with you on this one. What has Posey done to earn the #2 spot? IMO its a 3 way battle for the second spot between Martin, Jean, and Walter. Posey has played himself onto the practice squad cus there is no way I am cutting Holliday, an actual productive player, in favor of Posey. I dont care where Posey was drafted.
Click to expand...

Posey needs more time. He was out all last year.

There were good reports coming out of training camp about him and I would like to see what he could do with the 1st team or at least the 2nd team.

Martin and Jean have earned their reps and have been great I would just like to see Posey playing with a more experienced QB. Even if they just throw it to him deep a few times to see what he can do.
 
mariowillshine15 said:
Posey needs more time. He was out all last year.

There were good reports coming out of training camp about him and I would like to see what he could do with the 1st team or at least the 2nd team.

Martin and Jean have earned their reps and have been great I would just like to see Posey playing with a more experienced QB. Even if they just throw it to him deep a few times to see what he can do.
Click to expand...

Martin and Jean beat out Posey for playing time with the first teamers.

Posey sitting out all of last year only reinforces the fact the he needs to go to the practice squad. I can't think of any productive player I would cut just so I can give a spot to Posey. He can not make plays sitting at home watching the game.

Actually I expect him to have some sort of odd injury that will get him IR'd the last week of preseason.
 
Kevin makes 2 mil for 2012 I think, I say we drop him for that little extra money to help resign Barwin long term.
 
PapaL said:
Too many good WRs?!?

We have one good WR (when healthy) Johnson.

One pretty good, KW.

And a bunch of unproven young guys. Let's see how they react when the bullets are real and the D actually game plans.
Click to expand...

Good point.
Lots of guys have looked good in preseason only to fade into obscurity. Let's see what happens when the games count. Might be a tad early to make this call...
 
Thorn said:
Kevin Walter isn't going to be benched, that's not happening.
Click to expand...

That's the same stance people took when talking about jacoby and Demeco this past off season.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the young guys chip away at his playing time or fully supplant him if they show consistency.

But honestly, like I said Walter is not a bad wr. Really I'd like to see Aj get bit more rest than he has in the past. Jean, Walter and Martin should be a nice combo for a few plays/gm.
 
It's fairly obvious Posey's headed to the practice squad. He's not happening this year. In fact, he may be done before he got started. Not sure his psyche can take being sent off a team two years running. Martin and Jean are ready to move into the starting rotation. This means Walters is moving down the chart to become a valuable experienced back up. He's there in case one of the other two stumble or get hurt.
 
kingh99 said:
It's fairly obvious Posey's headed to the practice squad. He's not happening this year. In fact, he may be done before he got started. Not sure his psyche can take being sent off a team two years running. Martin and Jean are ready to move into the starting rotation. This means Walters is moving down the chart to become a valuable experienced back up. He's there in case one of the other two stumble or get hurt.
Click to expand...

I'd be shocked if kubiak cut posey. That would be new.
 
kingh99 said:
It's fairly obvious Posey's headed to the practice squad. He's not happening this year. In fact, he may be done before he got started. Not sure his psyche can take being sent off a team two years running. Martin and Jean are ready to move into the starting rotation. This means Walters is moving down the chart to become a valuable experienced back up. He's there in case one of the other two stumble or get hurt.
Click to expand...

Guys he hasn't even had a chance. Give him a chance. Besides if he was sent to PS he would definitely be snatched up within 48 hours.
 
pirbroke said:
Kevin makes 2 mil for 2012 I think, I say we drop him for that little extra money to help resign Barwin long term.
Click to expand...
Cutting Walter in 2012 would not help a new Barwin contract in 2013.

Walter will make this team, though Jean will cut into his playing time. I'd like to see Jean make through a preseason before anointing him a starter.
 
eriadoc said:
FWIW, Walter had his man beat for a TD in the end zone, but Schaub threw it too high on what was I think his only real incompletion.
Click to expand...

Another play Walter made .... that wasnt completed was the OD drop , it was Walters route that created the window of opportunity for that pass to be thrown .... OD has to catch that ball.


The devil is in the details ....


I do agree that if Martin & Jean continue their solid play , they eat into Walters snaps and possibly make him expendable next season.
 
Then the draft room guys missed on the Posey pick. He doesn't deserve a roster spot if it means someone like Holliday get's cut. And if not Holliday, then who? Kevin Walters? It would have to be one of those two, wouldn't it? If they keep 5 receivers/returners:

Johnson
Martin
Jean
Holliday
Walters/Posey

or
Walters
Holliday/Posey

They don't keep 6 do they? I guess they could. Should be interesting.
 
kingh99 said:
Then the draft room guys missed on the Posey pick. He doesn't deserve a roster spot if it means someone like Holliday get's cut. And if not Holliday, then who? Kevin Walters? It would have to be one of those two, wouldn't it? If they keep 5 receivers/returners:

Johnson
Martin
Jean
Holliday
Walters/Posey

or
Walters
Holliday/Posey

They don't keep 6 do they? I guess they could. Should be interesting.
Click to expand...

They will probably keep 6 wr's.
 
TEXANRED said:
Martin and Jean beat out Posey for playing time with the first teamers.

Posey sitting out all of last year only reinforces the fact the he needs to go to the practice squad. I can't think of any productive player I would cut just so I can give a spot to Posey. He can not make plays sitting at home watching the game.

Actually I expect him to have some sort of odd injury that will get him IR'd the last week of preseason.
Click to expand...

A third round draft pick is not going to the practice squad.
 
Corrosion said:
Another play Walter made .... that wasnt completed was the OD drop , it was Walters route that created the window of opportunity for that pass to be thrown .... OD has to catch that ball.


The devil is in the details ....
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the thing. To the people who say Walter isn't getting open and isn't creating separation and therefore isn't getting targeted, I say .... maybe. But I think it's just as likely that he's being deliberately used in a way to get other players open. Kubiak draws up these complex routes and he needs someone he trusts to do certain aspects of the job. Now, I don't know that to be true any more than some of the people know Walter sucks at getting open, but I'm honest enough to consider the possibility. That's why I am anxiously awaiting the All-22 film to be broken down by some people on this board this year, now that it'll finally be available.

So I am in a wait and see mode. The knee jerk reaction is to look at the stats and think Walter has to go, but I suspect Kubiak knows full well what Walter has done and keeps him out there for that express reason.
 
Posey is a project. Think Dorin Dickerson with a far better chance of success in that he's not making a position change. Posey pays off hopefully later in the year. If not then next year he'll be expected to start producing. He's a year out of competitive football for intents and purposes. He's going to take time and the Texans know it.

Now having said that you can make a really good case for not throwing 3rd round picks at projects or reclamation projects but that's what the Texans did.
 
Hervoyel said:
Posey is a project. Think Dorin Dickerson with a far better chance of success in that he's not making a position change. Posey pays off hopefully later in the year. If not then next year he'll be expected to start producing. He's a year out of competitive football for intents and purposes. He's going to take time and the Texans know it.

Now having said that you can make a really good case for not throwing 3rd round picks at projects or reclamation projects but that's what the Texans did.
Click to expand...

you can say the same thing about Brooks. Texans are betting on upside, both should succeed in time based on quality of coaching & system that is now proven for the first time in team history. I have no problem with either :specnatz:
 
eriadoc said:
Yeah, that's the thing. To the people who say Walter isn't getting open and isn't creating separation and therefore isn't getting targeted, I say .... maybe. But I think it's just as likely that he's being deliberately used in a way to get other players open.
Click to expand...

I doubt that.

Whats more effective for creating opportunities for other receivers?

A guy that shows he is a constant threat and pulls coverage no matter where he goes?

Or a guy that rarely catches passes?

Give me the guy that is actually a consistent threat to catch passed.

Other guys run routes to get guys open too, but since kw hardly does anything else folks just focus on his blocking and his "decoy ability".

I didn't hear much about how great a decoy od was last year when he cleared out that room for Walter to make the game winning catch against cincy.

You know why?

Because OD actually catches passes so you don't have to cling to some small thing he does as justification for him starting.

Kw was given his contract when he was catching passes. When he stopped doing that as effectively he was asked to take a pay cut.

The guy is a good wr, but all this blocking and decoying he does is not nearly as significant as a wr that can consistently make plays catching the ball.
 
beerlover said:
you can say the same thing about Brooks. Texans are betting on upside, both should succeed in time based on quality of coaching & system that is now proven for the first time in team history. I have no problem with either :specnatz:
Click to expand...

Me either. I'm just saying that people all worried about Posey taking a roster spot from Holliday or getting plucked away from us while on his way to our practice squad are worrying about something that's not going to happen. We'll keep 6 I think. AJ & Walter are fixtures, Martin and Jean have played their way onto the team, Holliday is finally ready for the game at this level, and Posey is Smithiak's long-term project.

They'll find a way to keep 6.
 
TEXANRED said:
Posey sitting out all of last year only reinforces the fact the he needs to go to the practice squad.

Actually I expect him to have some sort of odd injury that will get him IR'd the last week of preseason.
Click to expand...
IR Posey, and that's 2 years with very little football. Because players on IR cannot practice with the team.
 
Lucky said:
IR Posey, and that's 2 years with very little football. Because players on IR cannot practice with the team.
Click to expand...

I did not realize that. I too was thinking they could stash Posey on the IR. Well, that changes everything & gives more weight to what Spencer was saying during the game last night about Holliday complicating the WR position.

For those that missed his comment, he suggested that the Texans may reduce the number of RB's it carries. We might have to stash Forsett, Grimes & Meggett on the PS. Is Forsett still eligible for the PS?

In any event, with Kubiak's respect for his veterans & the young guns lack of experience, I see Walter being listed as the starter & Jean/Martin coming in shortly after the first play or two. I also see Walter being inserted in when we go into a run the clock out running game due to his blocking skills.

Assuming the 3 young guns develop into bonafide starters this year, I can see the Texans letting KW walk next year.

Also, I wouldn't be too surprised to see Schaub gone after this year.
 
eriadoc said:
Fair enough. As I alluded to above, I'm 50/50 on the idea. We'll see on the All-22, won't we?
Click to expand...

When you subscribe to NFL Rewind, you get all the games from last year, too.
With the all-22 view and one end zone view on top of the normal broadcast view.

I did.
And I've seen Walter get open a pretty fair number of time but the QB didn't look his way (he was not the first read). Sometimes the first read was not open but the QBs forced the ball there while Walter was open. To be fair, sometimes the QBs didn't have enough time to go to the second read.

Yes, Walter did run his good shares of deep routes that pull the safety over such that the QB would go to the underneath receiver.

And yes, Walter was used to block a lot.
Even on passing plays, many times they called on him to block the back side DE or OLB on play action fake.
After he threw the cut block he would get up and started his route.
By then, the QB already found a target.

I remember for sure though, that one year (not last year), I had seen Walter got a catch out of that situation.

Walter is not going anywhere until another guy shows he can do all those things.
 
Rey said:
They will probably keep 6 wr's.
Click to expand...

From Kubiak's presser:
“He (Martin) made a nice play, I think third play of the game we hit him. I know he had one more catch, I know for sure, I’m not sure how many he had. He’s had a really good camp. I put him in a tough situation this week. I switched him from ‘X’ to ‘Z’, so I put a lot of pressure on him. He and (WR) Lestar (Jean) are going to have to know both spots and (WR DeVier) Posey, on gameday because you only suit four, sometimes five guys.

They'll keep Posey because they can't afford to look bad on the draft. Posey's lucky he got taken so high. We'll probably be singing his praises a year from now if the coaches bring him along like they seem to be able to do with slow developing guys.
 
I would hate to think we wasted a third-round pick on DeVier Posey but the guy has not shown me anything at all. I have to watch old videos from 2009 just to see him looking like a legitimate prospect. I sure hope this man is hungry and ready to fight for a roster spot. He has two more pre-season games left. The Saints have a bad secondary so I expect him to make one or two plays on Saturday Night at the Superdome.
 
I'm supposed to trust the analysis of fans that can't seem to get a player's last name correct after a half dozen years? :kitten:

My take is Walter definitely starts the year at #2. Not 100% sure he will finish there, but to start I have nearly zero doubt in my mind about that.

The real fight right now is between Martin and Jean for #3. My take is they end up splitting the #3 spot situationally (down,distance, play call, field position, etc) - as you have two completely different cats there physically. If one is too eventually beat out Walter, I'm thinking it's Jean - and it's not based on talent but on size, stature, weight - let's see if the guy can block. Until he can block well, it's Walter's job.

Posey makes the team as the #5 guy who slowly works into the rotation as he continues to grow in a pro WR, or takes a heavier load should an injury occur.

Holliday is #6, takes all the returns and works in on offense with a few trick plays, and maybe a screen or two over the year.

So this is the final roster at WR:

#1 - AJ
#2 - Walter
#3 - Jean
#4 - Martin
#5 - Posey
#6 - Holliday
 
At this point KW is a larger version of David Anderson; can't get separation consistently and cannot make plays down field. He's probably better relegated to being a slot WR at this point where he can use his size to move the chains.

I think one thing is pretty clear; he doesn't belong outside at #2 and he's going to start losing PT to guys who are producing.


I Think the Texans brass wanted to keep him around for all the tag lines that people here use: leadership, RB, know system, ad naseum and because they were not sold on the young WRs (rightly so). However, the paycut he took seems to have a pretty clear message that he wasn't earning his keep on the field. I wonder had he refused the paycut if he would've been cut outright.

I think he stays this season, but next year he's likely going to get cut.

Posey looks like he was a reach and I think a lot of people's premonitions about it are being confirmed as the PS goes on. For better or worse barring not showing up at all, he's going to have a spot guaranteed because of where he was drafted.
 
Porky said:
I'm supposed to trust the analysis of fans that can't seem to get a player's last name correct after a half dozen years? :kitten:

My take is Walter definitely starts the year at #2. Not 100% sure he will finish there, but to start I have nearly zero doubt in my mind about that.

The real fight right now is between Martin and Jean for #3. My take is they end up splitting the #3 spot situationally (down,distance, play call, field position, etc) - as you have two completely different cats there physically. If one is too eventually beat out Walter, I'm thinking it's Jean - and it's not based on talent but on size, stature, weight - let's see if the guy can block. Until he can block well, it's Walter's job.

Posey makes the team as the #5 guy who slowly works into the rotation as he continues to grow in a pro WR, or takes a heavier load should an injury occur.

Holliday is #6, takes all the returns and works in on offense with a few trick plays, and maybe a screen or two over the year.

So this is the final roster at WR:

#1 - AJ
#2 - Walter
#3 - Jean
#4 - Martin
#5 - Posey
#6 - Holliday
Click to expand...

I think this post, from the first word to the last, is 100% correct. Rep.
 
Rey said:
I doubt that.

Whats more effective for creating opportunities for other receivers?

A guy that shows he is a constant threat and pulls coverage no matter where he goes?

Or a guy that rarely catches passes?

Give me the guy that is actually a consistent threat to catch passed.

Other guys run routes to get guys open too, but since kw hardly does anything else folks just focus on his blocking and his "decoy ability".

I didn't hear much about how great a decoy od was last year when he cleared out that room for Walter to make the game winning catch against cincy.

You know why?

Because OD actually catches passes so you don't have to cling to some small thing he does as justification for him starting.

Kw was given his contract when he was catching passes. When he stopped doing that as effectively he was asked to take a pay cut.

The guy is a good wr, but all this blocking and decoying he does is not nearly as significant as a wr that can consistently make plays catching the ball.
Click to expand...

This. Walter is steady and dependable, but he's not a playmaker and certainly not someone that opposing DCs put a lot of emphasis on when game planning. I would much rather have a big play threat opposite Andre, who has way more "decoy" potential than Walter if a legit playmaker is in the #2 position.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I would hate to think we wasted a third-round pick on DeVier Posey...
Click to expand...
Pretend Keyshawn Martin was out 3rd round pick and Posey was our late 4th round pick. Doesn't look that bad, now. :kitten:

Either way, we got what we needed which is a borderline starter playmaker WR and a guy (LeStar) with some size behind AJ. Posey is a project, at this point, like Jean was. Let's hope we don't need him in 2012.
 
Exactly. Lets examine why some want to keep Walter.

1. He can block. Well I saw KeyMart make a great downfield block Andre can definitely block and I honestly do not know about Jean.

2. He is a decoy. Well umm couldn't I just run a little slant route and they would have to cover me because I can actually catch if I am wide open. If I can do it I think KeyMart and Jean can as well.

3. He can move the chains on third down. I saw Jean do it twice Andre can do it very cnsistantly as can Foster and Daniels.

There is just nothing he does that our other offensive weapons can.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top