Luck has two TDs in first nfl game

[Dutchrudder]

GP, you make it sound like tanking is illegal, when in fact it's not. You can whine and complain about the team that benefits from the crappy system, but the fact is that it's the system's design, not the team, that is the problem here. Rewarding losers incentivizes losing, ergo the Colts likely did seek to lose games once they knew Manning would be out for a while.

 

[2012Champs]

By the way, it's fairly common language to say "patronize" when a person is heaping on fake conversation for the sake of trying to put one over on the other person. That's not a big word, or at least I would hope it isn't.

And sophomoric is the word used for trying to use foolish things as a way to sound smart. You trying to bait me into a useless series of back-and-forth "debate" via your questions about me needing to find "proof" is sophomoric because it is useless to try and answer you.

If you want to be genuine, go ahead. But understand I know your angle is 100% nothing but to try and bag on me. You have no real desire to debate or discuss, your sole purpose is to harass and troll.

Now, I have stated that it looks very suspicious that Irsay did a number of things that weakened his team rather than help it in 2011. I have also said that the timing of things also looks very bad, too. IF the league is concerned about the integrity of the game, as Goodell states when he punished the Saints for placing bounties on other QBs, then he should investigate the Colts' to the fullest extent he can. Otherwise, it just looks like Goodell picks the fights that he wants to win for the benefit of the NFL's league office ("We're cracking down on violent things like bounties!") when there's other stinky garbage in the league office that needs to be looked into, as well.

Bounties hurt the image of the NFL, but Andrew Luck...well, he HELPS the image of the NFL. So why would they even care to open that can of worms in the first place?

Real world business, such as NFL franchises, such as the Colts, have to do what they have to do in order to survive and thrive. Irsay did what he could in order to provide enough cover for his Suck For Luck campaign,m but he damn sure didn't do enough to prove he was genuinely trying to win every game in 2011. And for that, they need to be looked at with pretty strong cynicism. Right?

My poke at you for using big words came soley from the fact that you followed them with a nice double negative. Sophomoric would be making accusations and expecting others to prove them wrong

 

[GP]

The defeatism has zero to do with Andrew Luck. If there was a monkey behind center, theres a good chance we'd split with Indy. Have you noticed our lifetime record at Indy? Heres a hint: Its not good.

We lost in Indy to an Indy team that was 1-13. One and thirteen.

You know who the QB was? Dan Orlovsky.


If I told you that: we would play an Indy team that had won 1 of its first 14 games. That Arian Foster would have 160 yards on nearly 7 yards per carry average. That our QB would have a rating of 101 with zero INTs. Would you believe we could lose?

It doesnt take much improvement for me to say theres a good chance we go 0-2. Indy has the mojo on us. Always has

We're a few bad ref calls away from winning that second game in Indy in 2011, and you KNOW THAT.

This, again, is bordering on insanity. JJ Watt was taking over and was dominating at the end of that game, and the refs freaked out and went into over-protection mode against JJ Watt. It was a horrible game for the refs, and we all knew it was. From start to finish.

There is no mojo. We might have a perfect record against the Dolphins, but dammit they could easily beat us THIS year if we are not careful. This mysterious mojo is as superstitious as saying you get bad luck for breaking a mirror. OK? Stop it with the superstitions already.

You lost me when you went with the spooky "Indy has our number" stuff.

 

[gtexan02]

We're a few bad ref calls away from winning that second game in Indy in 2011, and you KNOW THAT.

This, again, is bordering on insanity. JJ Watt was taking over and was dominating at the end of that game, and the refs freaked out and went into over-protection mode against JJ Watt. It was a horrible game for the refs, and we all knew it was. From start to finish.

There is no mojo. We might have a perfect record against the Dolphins, but dammit they could easily beat us THIS year if we are not careful. This mysterious mojo is as superstitious as saying you get bad luck for breaking a mirror. OK? Stop it with the superstitions already.

You lost me when you went with the spooky "Indy has our number" stuff.

LOL why should a couple of calls have made a difference? We were a 10 win team. 10-4. They were a 1 win team. We had the #1 defense and the best RB. Blame the refs if you want, but the fact that it was even that close is absurd. Reggie Wayne caught that TD pass

We are 0 and 10 in Indianapolis. 10 tries in Indy. 10 losses. Call it what you want

Could we win this year? Absolutely. Its the NFL. Do the Colts "have our number" in Indy? What else does 0-10 lifetime record say

 

[drs23]

ok, I get it...if a guy looks good and he isn't a Texan we are crazy to be impressed with him. On the other hand, if we see a marginal PS talent on the Texans we should all have a big moon pie smile and rant and rave about him.

Well, duh...

 

[GP]

GP, you make it sound like tanking is illegal, when in fact it's not. You can whine and complain about the team that benefits from the crappy system, but the fact is that it's the system's design, not the team, that is the problem here. Rewarding losers incentivizes losing, ergo the Colts likely did seek to lose games once they knew Manning would be out for a while.

And where does it say, specifically in the league rules, that a team may NOT use or offer incentives to target other teams' players?

The thing is that the league can never put enough specifically worded language to anticipate the freaking unethical behavior of its franchises that those franchises might concoct in their wicked dreams every day or week or month or year. So you have language that says "Damages the integrity of the game."

The bounty system damages the integrity of the game. The game itself provides the opportunity for franchises to offer incentives for its players to push the limits of what is morally and ethically allowable, does it not? I mean, after all...they ARE supposed to hit one another out there. Right? So what is the limit on it? So WHAT if a team or a player wants, whether explicitly or implicitly, to hurt another player? How do we prove he had intent? The problems are endless with this whole debate, are they not?

So therefore why CAN'T we have the same argument about a team, such as the Colts, who for all practical purposes knew damn well they had zero chance without their superstar QB names Peyton Manning. But wait, did they actually try and improve their team in 2011? What actions did Irsay take to have a plan B for IF Manning could not come back? Is that not a viable discussion point if we're trying to absolve Irsay of wrong doing?

Morals is what is is. Ethics is the discussion or debate of what is should be. I have morals, but are my morals truly ethical? THAT is the question, not whether we vote on the morals or not. What should our morals BE? Our nation has very craftily, over the past 70+ years, found a way to make us believe that we are to vote on morals...give morals an up or down vote. That is not the vote to be taken. Rather, we should be looking at ethics and what is best for man. And what is best for the league is to find out if unethical behavior, by the Colts, led them to a series of decision making policies that conned their fans AND their own players out of having a season that maintained the integrity of the game.

It is not the league's fault that one of its owners LIKELY gamed the system in order to land the #1 pick so they could then choose a great QB prospect. In fact, it behooves the league's owners to carry out the integrity of the game just as the league asks the players to do the same. This is not a single game at the end of the year, this is an entire YEAR of preparation that appears to have taken place. If it was so, then it is beyond unethical in my eyes.

You're right, it's not illegal. The problem, however, is that it doesn't have to be legal or illegal to be discussed and/or worthy of punishment by a league who is touting that it wants to protect "the shield." Oh well, it's just the NFL looking one way when it hurts them and looking the other way when it helps them.

It is what it is, I suppose. But it doesn't make it right. And if any former Colts personnel come forward and offers extensive proof (emails, texts, phone conversations, testimony, etc.) it will be the biggest NFL story in history. It will dwarf Bounty Gate...and remember: None of you knew Bounty Gate was going on until it was fully revealed. Did you? I didn't. These things might not be public, not even in a "minor rumblings" way, but it could be there. It stinks to high heaven, and all it takes is one person to go off the reservation.

As it stands, I despise the Colts' owner. Their fans can't help it, they're just rooting for their team. Manning, to me, showed amazing loyalty even to the point of being overly gullible through it all. I think that even in the face of it all, if he was a bit gullible to think he stood a fair chance of remaining with the Colts beyond 2011...he still has a measure of integrity and honor that Irsay doesn't. And for that, I admire Manning more than I thought I ever would. The end.

 

[utahmark]

How do you think we got Olajuwon?

http://reclinergm.wordpress.com/200...lottery-did-the-rockets-tank-to-get-olajuwon/

 

[infantrycak]

Were the Rams intentionally tanking as well? How about the Vikings?

 

[rmartin65]

I bet GP would have been a fan of McCarthy back in the day.

Prove to me that you are not a communist!

Seriously though, GP, you seem to have dug in your heels here. It was fun debating with you, but we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[utahmark]

Tannehill looked good running "Packers" style offense.

RGIII looked pretty good, as well.

Nick Foles looked good.

We could be looking at a memorable QB draft class.

Russell Wilson looked pretty good as well.

 

[fiasco west]

I remember when Leaf Ryan in his first preseason game in 1998 was drooled over when he showed the "Luck poise." He ended up with 144 yds passing, with a 14 of 19 completion rate, 2 TDs, and 0 INTs...........and a bust career. I'm not ready to call Luck the next Ryan Leaf any more that I am prepared to anoint him the next Peyton Manning.

I find all the Manning comparisons a bit premature as well.

I mean Colt fans saying how lucky they are. The comparisons that Manning also threw a TD on his first pass.

I'm just not ready to crown this guy after one preseason game either.

 

[Playoffs]

Russell Wilson looked pretty good as well.

You're right, I meant to put him in there but forgot.

 

[Dutchrudder]

*snip*

I don't know what to tell you other than you sound like a vindictive non-Colts fan. I understand you are upset that the Colts management decided to throw in the towel due to Manning's injury. However, IF they were trying to tank this past season and get the #1 pick from the get-go, they would have never given Peyton 20 something million to play exactly zero games under his new deal. If the plan was to keep Peyton out of the lineup and get Luck, it makes no sense to give Peyton a bunch of money.

I think management knew how valuable Peyton was to the team's success, and after a few bad games, including a home loss to the Browns, they decided to throw in the towel. It was time to rebuild, and the best way to do that is with high draft picks. They were 0-13 before beating the Titans, and followed it up with a win over the Texans. This offseason, they blew up the team and cleaned house. It is clear that they are in rebuilding mode, which is typical of any organization that hits rock bottom.

In any case, you don't really have a valid argument against a team just because they didn't try hard enough to win games in your opinion. Look at the games they played that season, there were plenty of 1 score games that could have gone their way. Painter was trying to win those games, he just isn't good enough to do it. There is just as much evidence against the Colts as there is against the Texans trying to lose games to get Mario Williams. It happens every year that some team totally sucks and falls apart due to lack of talent, lack of motivation, poor morale, bad coaching, injuries, etc etc.

If the goal is to fix the system, then the incentives must be changed. Create a draft lottery similar to the NBA, but allow all non-playoff teams to have equal or nearly equal chance of getting the top pick(s). That would remove any incentive to lose games, and winning even meaningless games would be more about respect instead of draft position.

 

[Double Barrel]

Historic beginning!!!!!!!!!!!!! The legend has begun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jeesh, "legend" after one preseason game?

 

[Thorn]

jeesh, "legend" after one preseason game?

The Dolts play the Steelers on Sunday night this week. Let's see what he does against the Steeler defense.

 

[drs23]

Russell Wilson looked pretty good as well.

YES he did. Wilson looked dadgum good to me. Not NFL tall but that mountain has been conquered prior. T. Jackson is toast, I think.

 

[Playoffs]

jeesh, "legend" after one preseason game?

Open mouth, insert foot. Careful...
This is becoming all too similar to VY's "dream team" hype.

 

[GP]

If the goal is to fix the system, then the incentives must be changed. Create a draft lottery similar to the NBA, but allow all non-playoff teams to have equal or nearly equal chance of getting the top pick(s). That would remove any incentive to lose games, and winning even meaningless games would be more about respect instead of draft position.

I'm not going to sit here and let the Colts' owner off the hook just because the incentives are skewed in such a way that it allows the owner the ability to game the system. Granted, there's nothing that can be done about it.

I would love to see a lottery system in place. The Worst 5 teams would be in the lottery every year, vying for picks 1 through 5. Reg season record for the remaining 27 teams determines the final 27 spots in the first round.

Each season this would give five teams a 20% chance at hitting the Top Overall Pick. It'd be pretty damn hard to suck badly enough to risk being beaten for the #1 pick by a team who finished four spots down from you. And to make sure teams are not putting in a multi-year Suck For #1 campaign, teams that landed picks 1, 2, and 3 in a draft cannot be in the lottery the following year. They can get as high as #6 and that's it. I think that's fair enough.

 

[Dutchrudder]

I'm not going to sit here and let the Colts' owner off the hook just because the incentives are skewed in such a way that it allows the owner the ability to game the system. Granted, there's nothing that can be done about it.

Great, we are making progress. So are you going to stop calling for some sort of NFL investigation of the Colts?

 

[Nawzer]

Considering we split with them last year when they were a one win team otherwise means I wouldn't be surprised if we went 0-2 against them this year

Now that you mention it, I don't think we'll win more than 5 games...

 

[gtexan02]

Parity in the NFL is better than in any other sport. I dont understand why we'd change a system that isn't broken

 

[Dutchrudder]

Parity in the NFL is better than in any other sport. I dont understand why we'd change a system that isn't broken

Cause this is 'Merica and sharing prosperity is pinko commie Marxist bull****! We need full-on capitalism! No salary caps! No draft, all prospects are free agents that go to the highest bidder! No shared revenues beyond the TV deals! Everyone for himself!!!

 

[HJam72]

Cause this is 'Merica and sharing prosperity is pinko commie Marxist bull****! We need full-on capitalism! No salary caps! No draft, all prospects are free agents that go to the highest bidder! No shared revenues beyond the TV deals! Everyone for himself!!!

That's how you got '49ers or Cowboys winning the SB every year. Superbowl wasn't even the SB; the NFC Championship (between the Cowboys and 49ers, and decided by who paid Deion Sanders the most) was the Superbowl.

I would be utterly against going back to that (with a vengeance) if it weren't for the simple fact that I hear McNair is richer than both of 'em.

Capitalism is for nations, not sports leagues. Sports leagues need some parity.

 

[Goldensilence]

Cause this is 'Merica and sharing prosperity is pinko commie Marxist bull****! We need full-on capitalism! No salary caps! No draft, all prospects are free agents that go to the highest bidder! No shared revenues beyond the TV deals! Everyone for himself!!!

That's how you got '49ers or Cowboys winning the SB every year. Superbowl wasn't even the SB; the NFC Championship (between the Cowboys and 49ers, and decided by who paid Deion Sanders the most) was the Superbowl.

I would be utterly against going back to that (with a vengeance) if it weren't for the simple fact that I hear McNair is richer than both of 'em.

Capitalism is for nations, not sports leagues. Sports leagues need some parity.

Did ja miss the sarcasm much?


Those two posts aside. Luck was impressive, but considering how well he played at Stanford under the microscope the past two seasons is it really that big of a surprise?

The big thing that I took away was how comfortable he looked in the pocket, and I think the Colts were smart in getting Bruce Arians as the OC, Big Ben's passing numbers jumped under him and they managed to develop some pretty good WRs in that time.

I don't see why some people here are jumping off the deep end saying people that were impressed by his first outing are ready to lock him into the HOF. It is what it is, he had a pretty impressive debut. Of course he still has to make it through the rest of the preseason and then in the regular season where teams will be showing a full defensive arsenal.

I, personally, just think based on his college play and how quick (keep in mind he was still completing coursework at Stanford for a portion of summer) he seems to have digested the playbook and showed a real level of comfort with it; he's going to continue to impress.

Could this possibly finally really be another class of 83?

GP.....Loss for words bro.

I mean really Colts investigated for tanking? They didn't tank. Peyton just really was that big of part of the team, in fact, I think its pretty clear after last year he was the team. Which is why Irsay smartly decided to clean house.

Far as someone mentioning a switch to a draft lottery....no one tanks in the NFL because it's a much bigger team sport than the NBA. The biggest game changers come at getting franchise QBs which are hard to distinguish really and don't really come around often as we like to think.

 

[GP]

Great, we are making progress. So are you going to stop calling for some sort of NFL investigation of the Colts?

No.

 

[Texecutioner]

Greenbay Packers?

Not a bad call here Bong, but the Packs did pick Rodgers way before he ever started. Also, no one really believed that Rodgers was going to automatically be this amazing star at QB like they are with Luck currently and how they did with Manning at the time.

 

[GP]

Not a bad call here Bong, but the Packs did pick Rodgers way before he ever started. Also, no one really believed that Rodgers was going to automatically be this amazing star at QB like they are with Luck currently and how they did with Manning at the time.

Glad I wasn't alone in that thought process.

You don't slip to #24 in the draft if you're targeted as being the immediate future. He was a pickup for the sake of insurance, and that insurance paid off BIG TIME when the Favre Express left Green Bay.

I even remember Favre being a snot at GB and telling the media it wasn't his job to "mentor" or help Rodgers along...Rodgers, for having weathered the storm known as Brett Favre, should receive a purple heart or something.

 

[Texecutioner]

Glad I wasn't alone in that thought process.

You don't slip to #24 in the draft if you're targeted as being the immediate future. He was a pickup for the sake of insurance, and that insurance paid off BIG TIME when the Favre Express left Green Bay.

I even remember Favre being a snot at GB and telling the media it wasn't his job to "mentor" or help Rodgers along...Rodgers, for having weathered the storm known as Brett Favre, should receive a purple heart or something.

Yeah, Rodgers ended up slipping. For the record though, he was originally touted as the guy that was expected to be the #1 pick. The Niners ended up falling in love with Smith, and Rodgers just flew down the boards from there on draft day. Most scouts still expected him to go top 15, but he plummeted sort of like how Brady Quin did that one year. The Packers made an investment and paid off big time. I'd love to see the Texans do something like that in the next year or so for when Schaub starts winding down.

I think Bong was thinking more about a franchise that had two successful QB's back to back though. The Colts are just crazy though, because right as soon as Manning is out they have this freakishly good prospect that looks like a once in a ten year type of QB again. How many teams get that kind of luck to just happen to be in that position on the right year? Why couldn't the Colts have had this happen to them in a draft where it was a down year for QB's? Lol!

 

[EllisUnit]

i'm sorry but the rams defense. seriously. I cant wait to see him when barwin, watt, reed, smith are closing in on him, with JoJo and manning playing ball hawk in the secondary.

Wasnt it 2010 when we had the worst secondary ever that rusty smith made our D look like the #1 D in the NFL.

 

[GP]

i'm sorry but the rams defense. seriously. I cant wait to see him when barwin, watt, reed, smith are closing in on him, with JoJo and manning playing ball hawk in the secondary.

Wasnt it 2010 when we had the worst secondary ever that rusty smith made our D look like the #1 D in the NFL.

It's been that way forever.

We had made so many bad QBs look like world beaters, it's crazy.

A bad defense can make anybody look other-worldly. Yes, I think Luck is good. But I want to see him when he cannot play pitch-and-catch as easily as he did vs. the Rams.

Manning was Manning. Dude had the uncanny ability to beat you every single play. Only a fluke WR drop, or a funky fluke wild-ass lucky play by a defender would stop him. Luck is Luck. Is he at that Manning level yet? I dunno. I think it's going to be naturally difficult for Luck to be AS good as Manning.

 

[Playoffs]

See how Andrew fares at the confluence of the Allegheny and Ohio Rivers...

 

[NitroGSXR]

Pick 6!

 

[Scooter]

luck throws another touchdown ... to ike taylor ... of the steelers.

 

[fiasco west]

Yeah...The Steelers are a bit more difficult than the Rams I'm wagerin'

 

[Texecutioner]

It's been that way forever.

We had made so many bad QBs look like world beaters, it's crazy.

A bad defense can make anybody look other-worldly. Yes, I think Luck is good. But I want to see him when he cannot play pitch-and-catch as easily as he did vs. the Rams.

Manning was Manning. Dude had the uncanny ability to beat you every single play. Only a fluke WR drop, or a funky fluke wild-ass lucky play by a defender would stop him. Luck is Luck. Is he at that Manning level yet? I dunno. I think it's going to be naturally difficult for Luck to be AS good as Manning.

It would take him several years to be that good any way. Manning wasn't a world beater until about his 4th season.

 

[Hervoyel]

Well, he appears pretty mortal to me this week. I think he's an impressive prospect but he's still a rookie and he's going to play like one. Even Peyton threw more picks his rookie season than TD's. If the Texans approach Luck like he's a gimmie then sure, he'll embarrass us. If they take him seriously he's going to get eaten alive.

 

[Playoffs]

Looks better this week to me than last week when the media was crowning him Peyton Manning 2.

I'd like to have Dwayne Allen down here.

 

[dtran04]

Replacement refs struggling on that goal line series.

 

[utahmark]

Looks better this week to me than last week when the media was crowning him Peyton Manning 2.
I'd like to have Dwayne Allen down here.

Me too. Luck is going to be good.

 

[GP]

I hate the Colts. HATE.

They couldn't tie their shoes last year, now they look pretty decent so far.

I mean, GOSH! how does that happen??? It's almost like there was an incredibly inferior team out there last year, and it just magically transformed itself into being competent.

I hope we trash their asses and put the foot on their throat both games.

 

[thunderkyss]

Yeah...The Steelers are a bit more difficult than the Rams I'm wagerin'

Looked like he figured them out on the drive after the pick 6. I didn't watch the whole game, but I was thoroughly impressed by the young man for the first time.

Unlike some, I don't expect any of these guys to be perfect. They all make mistakes..... Brady, Manning... they've thrown pick 6's a time or two. They've both had 3 INT games before.

The thing that separates them from the rest, is how they respond.

Luck responded much better than I expected. I thought he'd be more cautious, but it was like the pick 6 never even happened. He came out with the same confidence he had before & kept slinging that ball & leading his team.

The Colts won't be a push over this year, we'll have to earn those wins the old fashioned way.

 

[BullBlitz]

I hate the Colts. HATE.

They couldn't tie their shoes last year, now they look pretty decent so far.

I mean, GOSH! how does that happen??? It's almost like there was an incredibly inferior team out there last year, and it just magically transformed itself into being competent.

I hope we trash their asses and put the foot on their throat both games.

Caldwell was an awful coach. Pagano is a good and imaginative defensive coach, like Wade. The Colts defense will be a lot better just due to a new scheme, just like the Texans turned around, Their offense will improve due to the draft, and the line is adequate as are the RBs. I think that the AFC south is going to be a lot more competitive this year.

 

[thunderkyss]

Caldwell was an awful coach. Pagano is a good and imaginative defensive coach, like Wade. The Colts defense will be a lot better just due to a new scheme, just like the Texans turned around, Their offense will improve due to the draft, and the line is adequate as are the RBs. I think that the AFC south is going to be a lot more competitive this year.

I agree, Caldwell was a figurehead, that was Peyton's team & they let Peyton run it.... manage it... & we saw that last season. That's a veteran team, no one expected them to go 2-14. If not for the prospect of landing Luck, I'm sure they would have made some changes mid-season that would have had them 6-10 or better.

 

[fiasco west]

Looked like he figured them out on the drive after the pick 6. I didn't watch the whole game, but I was thoroughly impressed by the young man for the first time.

Unlike some, I don't expect any of these guys to be perfect. They all make mistakes..... Brady, Manning... they've thrown pick 6's a time or two. They've both had 3 INT games before.

The thing that separates them from the rest, is how they respond.

Luck responded much better than I expected. I thought he'd be more cautious, but it was like the pick 6 never even happened. He came out with the same confidence he had before & kept slinging that ball & leading his team.

The Colts won't be a push over this year, we'll have to earn those wins the old fashioned way.

I have issues with the Manning comparisons. Manning is a top 5 QB of all time on most people's list, on some peoples he is the best QB. On some.

I'm not ready to call this guy that. I'm not even going to hint that he can be that.

Could he be a good QB? Yeah sure, but Matt Schaub is a "Good" QB. Manning owned this division because he was great. Manning legitimately had me worried with 40 seconds left on the clock, I was terrified every time he dropped back to pass.

 

[76Texan]

It would take him several years to be that good any way. Manning wasn't a world beater until about his 4th season.

But, but... you tried to compare the rookie Yates with the veteran Schaub.

 

[thunderkyss]

I have issues with the Manning comparisons. Manning is a top 5 QB of all time on most people's list, on some peoples he is the best QB. On some.

I'm not ready to call this guy that. I'm not even going to hint that he can be that.

Could he be a good QB? Yeah sure, but Matt Schaub is a "Good" QB. Manning owned this division because he was great. Manning legitimately had me worried with 40 seconds left on the clock, I was terrified every time he dropped back to pass.

Not really comparing him to Manning... just saying the best make mistakes after several years of elite performance. It's silly to not expect a rookie to make mistakes.