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3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

i thought this thread was about Posey lol Schuab has a good play action.. because he does the same thing on every run play. He pauses and rolls out on every zone running plays. The play action it's self isn't good but setting it up. I played QB and I remember my coach drilling that into my head lol
 
Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.

For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.






They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....

Who said his play fakes aren't good?

They also got the same results on play action when other qb's have been in the game.

And Arian becoming who he is has helped open things up tremendously. The threat of Arian and the fact that the oline looks exactly the same is a much bigger factor than what schaub does.

And no the play action was not as successful when our running game sucked.
 
Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

Yeah, I remember specifically in the totally suck running game season thinking they were going to have to abandon it and commenting to folks that I was surprised at how it continued to work so well.
 
Yeah, I remember specifically in the totally suck running game season thinking they were going to have to abandon it and commenting to folks that I was surprised at how it continued to work so well.

I don't think there's any statistical way to corroborate it, but I clearly remember numerous comments during the 2009 season (#30 in the NFL in rushing yards and #1 in the NFL in passing yards) expressing pleasant surprise about the effectiveness of the play action passing game. Seems like the comments usually started something like "I'm not sure why it's still working but..."
 
I totally agree with Lucky on this one. It always surprised me how hard teams (and camera men) bit on our play-action fakes when our running game sucked. Did they bite "AS hard"? I don't know. I thought they did. They definitely bit REALLY hard on them, they might just bite a little bit harder now.

Here's a little something I remembered from 2009, early in the year before Slaton developed as a threat and before we'd had a single back run for over 100 yards in a game:

Warning the 49ers about Schaub's play action fakes.

One of the take aways of that is that in 2009 by the time we played the Niners, Schaub was posting a 133 passer rating on play action fake passes. And at that time,

And then the next week, Schaub killed the Niners with the play-action.

Schaub's latest touchdown pass, a 42-yarder to a wide-open Owen Daniels, followed a play-action fake that fooled the 49ers. It fooled me, too. I was watching the running back for about three steps before realizing Schaub was standing alone in the backfield, watching Daniels break into the clear.
 
Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.

No I don't have any facts just like no one has any facts to the contrary. I didn't say it didn't work, I said it didn't work as well.

And everything I've seen indicates that's true. Teams bite a lot harder on the play action stretch with this version of the texans than they have in the past.
 
I totally agree with Lucky on this one. It always surprised me how hard teams (and camera men) bit on our play-action fakes when our running game sucked. Did they bite "AS hard"? I don't know. I thought they did. They definitely bit REALLY hard on them, they might just bite a little bit harder now.

Here's a little something I remembered from 2009, early in the year before Slaton developed as a threat and before we'd had a single back run for over 100 yards in a game:

Warning the 49ers about Schaub's play action fakes.

One of the take aways of that is that in 2009 by the time we played the Niners, Schaub was posting a 133 passer rating on play action fake passes. And at that time,

And then the next week, Schaub killed the Niners with the play-action.

None of that proves anything other than the play action is successful which is why kubiak runs it in the first place.

And in the link you posted they talk a out the o line and the scheme.

And in the quote you posted they talk about the running back.

Kubiak's stretch play action is very successful. Have not disputed that. Schaub does a good job executing his play fakes and I even said earlier that what he does after the play fake is far more impressive than the actual play fake.

What I am disputing is that schaubs play fakes are what makes the play action tick. Out of all the factors I'd say it's probably last. O line, rb, wr's then schaub. It's the entire action of the offense. If he's doing a play action fake just dropping straight back defenses don't bit as hard.

The scheme helps take away the importance of individual players and puts in on the entire action of the play. That's why teams respect it regardless of whether schaub is running it or whether Yates or sage ran it. That's why they respect it whether it's Arian or bad slaton.

But it starts with the o line. Their action is the biggest individual factor in selling the run. Period. And really, they aren't doing anything earth shattering either. Just playing within the scheme.
 
No I don't have any facts just like no one has any facts to the contrary.
Stats.com tracks passer rating for play action. I thought you might have access to that when you made that statement. You don't. Maybe someone else does.
 
None of that proves anything other than the play action is successful which is why kubiak runs it in the first place.

And in the link you posted they talk a out the o line and the scheme.

And in the quote you posted they talk about the running back.

Kubiak's stretch play action is very successful. Have not disputed that. Schaub does a good job executing his play fakes and I even said earlier that what he does after the play fake is far more impressive than the actual play fake.

What I am disputing is that schaubs play fakes are what makes the play action tick. Out of all the factors I'd say it's probably last. O line, rb, wr's then schaub. It's the entire action of the offense. If he's doing a play action fake just dropping straight back defenses don't bit as hard.

The scheme helps take away the importance of individual players and puts in on the entire action of the play. That's why teams respect it regardless of whether schaub is running it or whether Yates or sage ran it. That's why they respect it whether it's Arian or bad slaton.

But it starts with the o line. Their action is the biggest individual factor in selling the run. Period. And really, they aren't doing anything earth shattering either. Just playing within the scheme.

Im just gonna agree to disagree and move on ..... So much of this is subjective anyway ....
 
And everything I've seen indicates that's true. Teams bite a lot harder on the play action stretch with this version of the texans than they have in the past.

It is true for the most part...teams with sub-par running games can't go out there play-action passing like the Texans do multiple times a game and expect it to work as well... The running game the '10 and '11 Texans had makes it a lot easier to succeed with it multiple times, because even if the D thinks it might be play-action, they know the Texans are just as likely to kill them on the ground (the only reason Jacoby was able to burn Reed in the regular season)... with a sub-par running game, the D can afford to keep a man out of the box...
 
Sounds like Posey better decide if it's going to be the NFL or the NotForLong. Been called out for drops and now conditioning in just 6 hours of practice...

Asked about the young receivers after the final practice of the week on Thursday, Kubiak said he has seen “flashes” of talent.

“They’re all what we thought they were,” he said. “Getting a little fatigued right now. That bothers me; you’ve got to be able to run all day. Posey is out here pretty tired today. We’ve got to get those guys, condition-wise, to where they can do it all day long. But talent-wise, it’s exactly what we thought we were going to get.”The competition should for playing time – and roster spots – should only heat up in the coming weeks and months.
 
Sounds like Posey better decide if it's going to be the NFL or the NotForLong. Been called out for drops and now conditioning in just 6 hours of practice...

Not worried it's freaking day three of OTA's They aren't going to be in top shape. Especially if he didn't play 90% of the season. He isn't prepared enough yet to catching in traffic so not worried. Now if this comes up in training camp then I will be worried.
 
Sounds like Posey better decide if it's going to be the NFL or the NotForLong. Been called out for drops and now conditioning in just 6 hours of practice...

I think you have Posey mistaken for Jean when it comes to drops. I haven't seen one quote from anyone criticizing him for drops so far. I think the conditioning quote from Kubiak was probably just more of trying to push him. He knows we're going to need him to stay on the field this year most likely. Way overblown issue at this point in the offseason.
 
I think you have Posey mistaken for Jean when it comes to drops. I haven't seen one quote from anyone criticizing him for drops so far. I think the conditioning quote from Kubiak was probably just more of trying to push him. He knows we're going to need him to stay on the field this year most likely. Way overblown issue at this point in the offseason.

Right!

I think the more important thing to read out of Kubiak quote is as followed:
"talent-wise, it’s exactly what we thought we were going to get."
 
Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.

There are a lot of reasons why the play action works well for the Texans.
Eleven reasons on the field and a few on the side line.

The play action works for a team like Baylor with RG III running it from the spread.
The play action works for Stanford with Andrew Luck in a power scheme.
The ZBS has no monopoly on how the O-line makes each play look the same whether it's pass or run.

One of the main reasons it also works for the Saints is the QB.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/01/play-action_fakes_by_new_orlea.html

When pressed on how he does it, however, Brees opened up.

"Fundamentally, there's certain things," he said. "You just talk about your body language, making it look just like the run. The way that you extend the ball out, the way you keep your off hand close to your belly so they're not sure if the ball is in your hands or the running back's hands. Timing -- timing of understanding when routes are going to open up down the field, and being able to get a good pre-snap read."

And here's what one of the RBs (Thomas) had to say about it:

"Coach emphasizes that a lot in practice," Thomas said. "He's always saying, 'make sure you get a good fake.' He wants a good fake. Because if you just give a sloppy fake, anyone can read that and it's basically like, 'who are you kidding? Who do you think you're trying to kid out there? You're not giving the ball off, you're not handing the ball off, you're just giving a little fake and nobody's going to respect that.' So you want to have that good mesh between the quarterback and the running back."
 
Braylon Edwards is a guy who I think would be better for this offense, and probably would come just as cheap. Big body, willing blocker, able to stretch the field, and has played in a similar offense.

Braylon Edwards....are you serious? That guy can't catch a cold.
 
Braylon Edwards....are you serious? That guy can't catch a cold.

Braylon Edwards's 2 years in New York he had very reliable hands. This is from a guy who watched every Jets game. Its a reason why Jets fans want him back there. The guy made some big plays for them with a terrible QB. He dealt with injuries last year, but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.
 
Oh I was right there with ya on that one, at the time.

I thought: Man, this guy is going to really cause problems for a secondary...no way can they cover AJ and Moulds.

Oops.

We need to find our WR version of Arian Foster. Badly.

I think that UDFA WR version of Arian Foster will be ...drumroll.........Dwight Jones.:koolaid::clap:
 
... but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.

The biggest problem here is that he probably doesn't want a 1 year deal for cheap. He's probably going to hold out until he gets something a bit more substantial than that. He can wait until someone has some injuries and gets desperate.
 
"Fundamentally, there's certain things," he said. "You just talk about your body language, making it look just like the run. The way that you extend the ball out, the way you keep your off hand close to your belly so they're not sure if the ball is in your hands or the running back's hands. Timing -- timing of understanding when routes are going to open up down the field, and being able to get a good pre-snap read."

Thanks for digging up a great example quote. That is exactly what I am talking about. When I am talking about play fake or play action I am talking about the whole package. As I mentioned up thread Carr had one of the worst around and it was because of inconsistent body language. His arm extension was totally different.

It's funny Rey wants to credit the OL for looking the same but won't credit Schaub for making it look the same.
 
Braylon Edwards's 2 years in New York he had very reliable hands. This is from a guy who watched every Jets game. Its a reason why Jets fans want him back there. The guy made some big plays for them with a terrible QB. He dealt with injuries last year, but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.

You've got to be concerned about his right knee. According to his coach at the time, he sustained a right knee "unspecified" injury where he underwent "a procedure" in September of 2011 and would be "out for a little bit" ..........and he is still rehabbing. Lends me to believe that it could very well be an ACL ........another ACL. He was out the entire 2005 season with a right ACL.
 
The biggest problem here is that he probably doesn't want a 1 year deal for cheap. He's probably going to hold out until he gets something a bit more substantial than that. He can wait until someone has some injuries and gets desperate.

He only got a 1 year deal last year after having a good season and great postseason the year before with the Jets. Part of that was because he was dealing with a DWI situation that's now taken care of. I doubt any team will invest more than a 1 year deal on him though. If he can revert back to his form of a couple of years ago a team is going to get a great bargain.
 
Last year, San Francisco signed Braylon Edwards to one-year, $1 million deal, with $2.5 million available in hard-to-reach incentives (90 catches, Pro Bowl). Edwards’ salary was only guaranteed if he was on the season-opening roster.

After Edwards managed 15 catches in the 49ers’ first 15 games, San Francisco cuts its losses.
link
 
You've got to be concerned about his right knee. According to his coach at the time, he sustained a right knee "unspecified" injury where he underwent "a procedure" in September of 2011 and would be "out for a little bit" ..........and he is still rehabbing. Lends me to believe that it could very well be an ACL ........another ACL. He was out the entire 2005 season with a right ACL.


Yeah, that's the question that has to be answered is if he's healthy or not. If healthy he would easily be the second best receiver on our team. Injury concerns are the only reason a team wouldn't want to committ more than a year to him.
 
Yeah, that's the question that has to be answered is if he's healthy or not. If healthy he would easily be the second best receiver on our team. Injury concerns are the only reason a team wouldn't want to committ more than a year to him.

Since he only missed 4 games at the beginning of last year, if it were an ACL, it would have been a minor tear/sprain with loosened mensicus, not a full ACL tear........Making it more worrisome that he is "chronically" still dealing with its rehab. And this is not to even mention the shoulder injury, which in combination with continued knee problems made him virtually worthless for the rest of the season. There are, indeed, a lot of questions.
 
Well, at least we didn't go for AJ Jenkins: http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/06/inside-the-49ers/minicamp-review/

BIGGEST LETDOWN

  • A.J. Jenkins: The Niners first round pick looked like one of the worst wide receivers on the field most of minicamp. He didn’t play with the first- or second-team offense on Tuesday, and he didn’t catch a pass in scrimmages on Wednesday. He had trouble staying on his feet all three days, which was odd considering it was a non-contact minicamp. Overall, undrafted receivers Nathan Palmer and Brian Tyms caught many more passes and made more impressive plays than Jenkins did...
 
Well, at least we didn't go for AJ Jenkins: http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/06/inside-the-49ers/minicamp-review/

BIGGEST LETDOWN

  • A.J. Jenkins: The Niners first round pick looked like one of the worst wide receivers on the field most of minicamp. He didn’t play with the first- or second-team offense on Tuesday, and he didn’t catch a pass in scrimmages on Wednesday. He had trouble staying on his feet all three days, which was odd considering it was a non-contact minicamp. Overall, undrafted receivers Nathan Palmer and Brian Tyms caught many more passes and made more impressive plays than Jenkins did...

The AJ Jenkins pick surprised everybody! I thought they were definitely going to draft Hill at that spot. Hill made a lot more sense because he could come in with a similar frame as Moss and learn from a future HOFer. Posey I think will probably make the most progress between the start of training camp and the end up it simply because of the time he's missed on the field.
 
Nick Scurfield ‏@NickScurfield
Rookie WR DeVier Posey will be a guest on #TexansAllAccess tomorrow on @SportsRadio610. Show airs from 12-2 pm CT
 
FWIW, on Posey.

Some folks are acting as though Posey in camp was like Trindon Holliday year one or something.

Not like that at all. He looked like he belonged out there. /Made a really nice catch last day of minicamp, IIRC. Bomb where it looked like he was overthrown.

Kubiak sees OTAs/minicamp as a way to get young players up to speed so they can compete with the vets in training camp. In his TD Club luncheon, Kubiak basically said he's pushing the rookies very hard because he is going to need some of them to contribute quickly due to departing players.

I also think that some comments are pumping the brakes some on the expectation by some that Posey can just jump in and supplant Walter.

I think for the all the rookies he wants them to be prepared for real camp. And not get some entitled big head sort of thing going on.
 
FWIW, on Posey.
...
I also think that some comments are pumping the brakes some on the expectation by some that Posey can just jump in and supplant Walter...
Yeah, I don't expect Posey (and wouldn't any other drafted 2012 WR) to be able to jump right into our offense. Training camp/preseason will tell the tale.
 
I'm sold on Posey. Everything I read, despite Kubiak's deflective criticisms that aren't really criticisms, seems to point me in the direction of confidence in Posey.

He can run routes properly (Jacoby couldn't), he has great hands (Jacoby didn't), and he has the stride to make up ground and go get passes that are maybe initially out of his reach. Also, there has been NO off-the-field news about this guy--He's being a real pro about it all.

All in all, I think it's AJ, Walter, Jean, and Posey. Keshawn Martin as WR5 and return man. Kubiak is a seniority type of coach, he's going to have Jean ahead of Posey out of traditional respect for the code.

I don't think KW is on the outs or anything, but Jean and Posey are going to push KW for that WR2 spot this year...and the push will be greater in 2013 if KW is still around by then. And don't anybody get undies in a bunch about this, I'm just saying that Jean and Posey have a real shot at supplanting KW if they perform very well in 2012. As long as KW keeps taking pay cuts, he'll have a spot on this team even if it's at WR3 or WR4.
 
I think the WR competition is very wide open.

It would not surprise for the Texans to bring a vet in for camp too.

Texans have mixed feelings on that. Bring a vet in, then you may be not developing your young players. Don't bring a vet in, and you may get totally hosed finding out that the game is too big for your rookies.
 
FWIW, on Posey.

Some folks are acting as though Posey in camp was like Trindon Holliday year one or something.

Not like that at all. He looked like he belonged out there. /Made a really nice catch last day of minicamp, IIRC. Bomb where it looked like he was overthrown.

Do you remember who threw the ball?
 
Still don't understand WHY the Texans passed up Stephen Hill for Posey! SMH!!

They didn't pass up Stephen Hill for Posey, they passed up Stephen Hill for Whitney Mercilus, if anything...

Regardless, Posey can be a better NFL receiver than Hill...
 
Found this video of Posey, its pretty cool. Its pretty much a bullsh!t Q&A. Hes wearing his uniform, with that big ass collar in all its glory... :mcnugget:

dp1.jpg
 
Braylon Edwards's 2 years in New York he had very reliable hands. This is from a guy who watched every Jets game. Its a reason why Jets fans want him back there. The guy made some big plays for them with a terrible QB. He dealt with injuries last year, but for a 1 year deal for cheap he's well worth it.

Yeh his hands were better in NY than they were in Cleveland thats for sure.
 
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