Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Everything he said made sense..
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Solomon: The Texans Would Like to Sign Brown, Barwin, Schaub Before the Season
- Thread starter Brisco_County
- Start date
Everything he said made sense..
Ummmm....
This talk about not bringing back Schaub at this point is ridunkulous.
I don't care if you think Schaub is an A+, A-,B+ or B-....You don't let any of those guys go without a replacement coming in that you have absolute confidence in.
Is Yates that guy? I honestly don't know. I need to see more, myself.
This talk about not bringing back Schaub at this point is ridunkulous.
I don't care if you think Schaub is an A+, A-,B+ or B-....You don't let any of those guys go without a replacement coming in that you have absolute confidence in.
Is Yates that guy? I honestly don't know. I need to see more, myself.
badboy
Hall of Fame
So you want to tie up close to $20m/year in your QB? Not me.I really doubt that will be the case. I don't think Schaub fits every scheme out there, nor does he have a rocket arm that most team's covet. The kind of teams that I would expect to go after Schaub would be the Browns, Seahawks, Jags, Rams, Bucs or Vikings. Many of those are dependent on how their QB situation works out this year, and where they end up drafting. Even still, I don't see the bottom dwellers throwing a ton of money at Schaub unless the 90% salary cap floor becomes a factor and they need to drop 14+ million that year. At that price, yeah I think he will be gone.
Another thing to factor in is that Drew Brees is still under the franchise tag. He may be a free agent next year...
THE $100 MILLION QUESTION
There are many details to be worked out in Brees' contract, but the biggest issue is total value. And the biggest question is whether Brees will become the first player in NFL history to average $20 million per season.
Earlier this year the Denver Broncos signed Peyton Manning (another Condon client) to a five-year deal worth $19.2 million per year, the richest in league history. Before that, Manning's 2011 deal with the Indianapolis Colts and Tom Brady's 2010 extension with the New England Patriots each averaged $18 million per year.
As of a few weeks ago, the Saints had been offering Brees around $18.75 million per year, and the Brees camp was seeking around $20.3 million to $20.5 million per year, according to sources and reports. A source confirmed that the Saints made a new offer two weeks ago, but the details have not been disclosed.
Eventually the sides are expected to meet somewhere between $19.2 million and $20 million per year, making Brees the highest-paid player in NFL history.
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/06/he_deadline_to_sign_drew_brees.html
ckhouston
Veteran
I am talking about his continual insistence on being the grammar cop.
ckhouston
Veteran
I would also like to see a little more, but was very impressed with what he did under the type of pressure he was under as a rookie last year. Obviously he made his mistakes, but i think he really showed he has potential, and isn't that far away from being able to realize that potential if given the opportunity.
That being said, this is Matts year. Hope he takes advantage of it.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I am hoping Matt leads us to SB then Yates starts 2013.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What are you talking about former teammates? Of course what other players make at the position is a consideration.
There is no way 1 time pro-bowler Cushing can expect a 33% pay increase over 5 time pro-bowler, 4 time first team All-Pro Willis.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Well, Foster certainly had a case for being at least a top 3 RB in the league going into this offseason, but look at the RB salary landscape before he signed:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/39912/59/the-2012-running-back-market?pg=1
Foster is getting slightly less money than Deangelo Williams, so these things do tend to play a role in the negotiation process. Foster may have given the Texans a discount too, so that may be the reason he was such a great deal. But do you think another team is going to offer Foster 9 million + per year? I don't.
I think Cushing will re-sign with the Texans, one way or another, but I don't think he will break our bank.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just seeing if you were paying attention. You are like my spell check & I want to keep you alert.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I am rarely the grammar cop.
This is a forum. It's a casual atmosphere. There are going to be typos and there are going to be misspellings and there are going to be run-on sentences (like this one) and there are going to be grammatical mistakes. I don't point out 98% of the mistakes I see because I make them myself in my own posts.
But that particular post was not comprehensible. I honestly did not and do not know what Norg was trying to say. I was trying to help Norg understand that and prod him to clarify.
Dont worry, all teams with above avg FO's keep their 10-12 best players. Barwin and Cushing are in that top 10-12 range.
ckhouston
Veteran
I agree. I have no doubt Matt will get a huge payday if he does win it all, but hope it isn't from the Texans.
Yates to me as it stands, is the future.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I really doubt that will be the case. I don't think Schaub fits every scheme out there, nor does he have a rocket arm that most team's covet. The kind of teams that I would expect to go after Schaub would be the Browns, Seahawks, Jags, Rams, Bucs or Vikings. Many of those are dependent on how their QB situation works out this year, and where they end up drafting. Even still, I don't see the bottom dwellers throwing a ton of money at Schaub unless the 90% salary cap floor becomes a factor and they need to drop 14+ million that year. At that price, yeah I think he will be gone.
Another thing to factor in is that Drew Brees is still under the franchise tag. He may be a free agent next year...
Perhaps. It feels crazy to say Schaub will make 14 million or whatever a year but again Flaco and Sanchez, who are both lesser quarterbacks, make 11-12 million. I base my opinion on moves like Tannehill,Ponder,Tebow,Wheeden, etc being 1st round picks. The lack of other quarterbacks in free agency just validates my opinion more I think. Supply and demand. Dont let him test free agency. I dont want to find out if i'm right or wrong.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
If Schaub wants Drew Brees or Peyton Manning money then he has to be let go. No freaking way. If he was willing to take a Ryan Fitzpatrick deal (6y, 59m) then I'd do that extension right now, today.
ckhouston
Veteran
No way, too long of a deal.
Brown, he should be signed now. The Texans should negotiate hard and get the best deal they can but get it done early. Brown has improved every year, is very good bordering on elite status, and has no injury history. Get it done this summer Rick. A 4 or 5 yrs. deal, no more.
Barwin, if he can be signed now for a reasonable deal then get it done now, again a 4-5 yrs. deal, no more. If he won't sign for a reasonable deal then wait til the end of the season because even though he's very good, he's not elite yet and he's only had 1 yr. of really good productivity. Also with the addition of Mercilus and a 3 man rotation at OLB Barwins stats could likely go down next season.
Schaub, wait til the end of the season for him. He's got an extensive injury history, has never lead this team into the playoffs, he's not a field general that takes command and carries the team, and just doesn't have that undefinable "IT" factor. If he has a great season and leads us deep into the playoffs then re-sign him but no more than 4 yrs. If all else fails trade up in the 1st round of the 2013 draft and get a potentially elite QB.
Barwin, if he can be signed now for a reasonable deal then get it done now, again a 4-5 yrs. deal, no more. If he won't sign for a reasonable deal then wait til the end of the season because even though he's very good, he's not elite yet and he's only had 1 yr. of really good productivity. Also with the addition of Mercilus and a 3 man rotation at OLB Barwins stats could likely go down next season.
Schaub, wait til the end of the season for him. He's got an extensive injury history, has never lead this team into the playoffs, he's not a field general that takes command and carries the team, and just doesn't have that undefinable "IT" factor. If he has a great season and leads us deep into the playoffs then re-sign him but no more than 4 yrs. If all else fails trade up in the 1st round of the 2013 draft and get a potentially elite QB.
Bob McNair was on 610 earlier today and said that he'd like to work something out with as many guys as possible before the start of the season. He said that he would have preferred to work something out during the offseason last year with some guys but the lockout prevented them from having contact with the players or agents. Didn't go into detail which players he would have liked to re-sign though.
badboy
Hall of Fame
To clarify my post, I was not saying that Matt will want Brees money but responding to another poster's hint that Brees could be a FA next off season & Texans could try to sign him.
badboy
Hall of Fame
As many contracts are not guaranteed last 2-3 years could be dropped. I'd do that deal in a split second with caveats for his health and being able to play.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So Schaub orchestrates 7.5 of 10 wins last year and doesn't get credit for leading the team to the playoffs last season? The players universally disagree with your field general comments.
The short deals you are suggesting particularly for Brown and Barwin are going to be a major sticking point.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Wolfe you were going great until you got to Schaub. If you wait too long it tends to piss off the player who may want to go elsewhere to feel "appreciated". The problem with this is there is not a good replacement for Matt. The best is Yates and that may or may not work. There is no elite QB to trade up to get in 2013 at least as it looks today. There is no better free agent QB. You can offer all the contracts you want that are team friendly and the player can say no thanks; just as Mario Williams did PRIOR to signing with Buffalo. I agree Matt should not be signed for more than 3 years of actual playing time but why should Schaub do that? This is his last chance to take care of his future. Much different than Barwin, Foster or Butler who are younger. Even Duane Brown will want to go for the gold.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I see this as good news. Thanks for posting.
drs23
Veteran
Damn, badboy, how much does a future cost? Matt's already made a couple of Gamillion. I know it costs more to raise twins, but how MUCH more?
TEXANRED
Texan-American
I think Kubiak is going to ride with TJ and try and groom Case Keenum to take the starting spot in 2-3 years. IMO of course.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Good thing you are very far away from the Texans FO. Your analysis of QBs is godawful.
ckhouston
Veteran
Longer deals for Brown and for Barwin (who I think solidifies himself this year as an elite pass rusher) but otherwise I think you are on point. If Barwin wants to break the bank I dont see that we can be a player if Mercilus shows to be a good option. Your assesment of Matt is dead-on, but even if he wins the SB I wouldnt offer him more than a two year deal and the absolute outside max would be 10M a year. Too much ongoing injury risk.
Rep.
ckhouston
Veteran
I dont know, I called Yates playing by the 10th game last year (missed it by a game) on the other Texans MB. So sometimes I get lucky probably, or maybe know a little bit even if I dont go along with the mass opinion like most.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
They could add a Colts/Manning type injury opt-out clause to Schaub's contract if they do decide to resign him this offseason. I don't see them guaranteeing him the kind of money he's going to get w/o seeing how that foot holds up or w/o some kind of insurance.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Even if that's the case, how does getting lucky predicting the timing of an injury translate to "quarterback analysis"?
drs23
Veteran
ckhouston
Veteran
Maybe it was what some call luck, maybe not.
I win most pick-em type things I participate in the last few years.
Maybe I am just on a good roll.
I predict the Texans will win it all, so I hope the trend continues.
Im sorry but you lost me at Flacco or TJ Yikes, Matt is a WAY better QB than those 2.
You cannot put this franchise on a 5 round QB, which honestly didnt show anything spectacular or even solid last year. It was his rookie season but he made way too many mistakes and you want to give this team to him?
Its funny how people say that Yates lead us to the playoffs, NO HE DIDNT! Matt gave us a clear advantage on the division before Yates played, and in those last games and playoff games our defense and Foster lead us to the playoffs and into the playoffs. At some point of the game we were playing against the other teams and against Yates, with AJ and Walter batting down passed that were going to be picked up by the defense.
And no, you cannot use the card of the last drive against the bengals because before that only drive he was playing very badly, the D and Foster gave us that game by keeping it close.
I'll say keep Matt and roll with him, he is a proven quality staring QB, every single player in the NFL can get injured at any moment...I guess you will get rid of Sttaford after 2 injured season? or Brady after 1 injured season, right? I guess it was a great decision and it worked like a charm for the Charges with Brees, so why not?
We should start thinking about a franchise 1st round or 2nd rounder QB but not before the 2014 draft.
* I'll risk pissing off Schaub to see if he can stay healthy for the whole year and lead us deep into the playoffs. I don't want to extend him now to make him feel better because of an extensive injury history, and a current injury that we're still not sure if he'll come back from. Like the thread that CND started about Rick Smith, Emotional Detachment. Feeling have no place if your a GM.
* As for a replacement I think if given a real chance Yates can be that replacement. He was far from perfect last year but I saw the basic building blocks to be a very good NFL QB. With some time and experience and learning he should do fine. I'm not sure who will be considered elite in the 2013 draft but there are currently about 5-6 QB's that should go in the 1st round and 10 months from now there could be even more, we'll see.
*Why should Schaub sign a friendly deal with the Texans? Because the rest of the league isn't stupid either, they see the same thing we do. A guy who's 30 yoa. who's been with his current team for 5 yrs. but only able to stay healthy for 2 of those seasons. A QB playing in a very friendly QB system with limited arm strength and even less mobility. A QB that, to me at least, doesn't seem to be a field general able to carry his team when necessary and lacks that undefinable "IT" factor. A guy with no playoff experience.
I hope that answers your questions. I'd take a hard line with Schaub if I'm the GM. I think Kubiak loves him and this could come down to a bit of a behind the scenes power struggle between Kubiak and Smith if Smith truly stays emotionally detached. This next offseason looks like a good time for Smith to flex some muscle and will probably get even bloodier than this years offseason with player cuts for salary purposes.
First off I don't consider 5 yr. deals to be short, just a matter of opinion. As for Schaub, no he doesn't get the credit for leading us to the playoffs. 7.5 wins doesn't make the playoffs. As for the players disagreeing, all we see is what they say in public and no player on this team is going to throw his QB under the bus in public.
buddyboy
Rookie
Listing "he never led us to the playoffs" as a downside of MS is a weak argument though, even if you throw in the technicality of him "only" winning 7.5 games in the playoff season.
And I don't get how people argue that since players said something, it must be the opposite. Players say MS is a great leader, but that's just what they say? It's obvious they don't mean it? Yet, we can all look at him on the field on our TVs or in the stands and come to that conclusion? That's weak.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Just curious (not that it's particularly relevant to the discussion), but where's the 7.5 wins coming from? Matt started 10 games and the Texans record in those games was 7-3. He did not take a snap in any of the remaining 6 RS games, or the two playoff games. What am I missing? Where's the .5 coming from?
And just to throw my two cents in, the statement that Schaub did not lead us into the playoffs is true on a technicality only. Yeah, as we were going into the playoffs, he was not leading us on the field. The idea that he wasn't a huge part of finishing with a record good enough to win the division is ridiculous, and the idea that the Texans would have made the playoffs had any other QB on the roster started the majority of the RS games is at the very least, highly questionable.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Typo or brain fart - 7 wins.
Yup. He handed off a team which ultimately only needed 2 wins in the next 6 games to win (obviously they won three more).
badboy
Hall of Fame
You future doctor you! Your kidding right? right? Why should Matt take less than what others around him are getting? Because he likes us? Give me an extra $15m over a four year deal and I can learn to like dang near most of you folks.Damn, badboy, how much does a future cost? Matt's already made a couple of Gamillion. I know it costs more to raise twins, but how MUCH more?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Enjoy the back & forth. Your description of Schaub fits AJ except for length with Texans. How many NFL teams would be interested in giving Johnson a few mega bucks if he came on market? QB, LT and WR1 are prize possessions.
I think Matt has been around long enough to understand it is a business. If he was all gang-busters last year & delivered according to the expectations set for him, much less the expectations he's set on himself, then yeah. He would, & should, expect to be appreciated in the form of a nice, new, long contract.
However, he missed half of the season, he missed the post-season. Bad luck & all, but I think he should understand the effect that has on the business end of all this.
I think the Texans showed incredibly good faith in his ability when they signed him in 2007. A lot of money, for basically an unproven commodity. Gary & Rick know what they've got in Matt Schaub, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did sign him before the season.
But I doubt Schaub is expecting them to.
I think it would be a good move by the rookie Rick Smith, to lock him up now, to a contract that is only guaranteed through 2012, or guarantee it come the first day of training camp, each year of the contract.
If we've "finally" got a WR corps worth their paycheck, Matt is primed to go off in 2012 & he'll be more expensive when the season is over.
The Medic01
Waterboy
I think signing Schaub and Barwin before the season is risky but it could be a very good move depending on what happens this year.
The scenarios could go like this.
We sign Barwin and Schaub before the season begins and they both have career years or Matt Schaub doesn't recover from injury well gets hurt again or doesn't play well while Barwin shows he was a one year wonder doesn't produce well and we just wasted a whole lot of money on two busts.
Or we may not sign them before the season they both have career season and we lose two top players at important positions and we feel stupid.
It's all risk reward and either way could turn out badly for the team and/or our cap situation.
Duane Brown has the least risk. No injuries has had several solid seasons and an elite season last year. We should focus on him this offseason because his price tag will go way way up if he has another elite season.
Yeah, but If I'm paying $8/beer, I expect Rick Smith to multi-task.
drs23
Veteran
You future doctor you! Your kidding right? right? Why should Matt take less than what others around him are getting? Because he likes us? Give me an extra $15m over a four year deal and I can learn to like dang near most of you folks.
OK, check's in the mail...
badboy
Hall of Fame
see, I like you already. Amazing what a dollar or $15million will do in this economy.OK, check's in the mail...
This ^^^
Barwin is a one-year (out of three) wonder until he shows otherwise. Whether Schaub is back to 4000+ yard passing form remains to be determined. This makes them both borderline "twenty-percenters".
Personally, I'd rather sign Brown and see if Cushing will go for an extension before I tie up a lot of money in Schaub or Barwin.
If CK is correct (and I ain't ready to say he is), after another year in our system, Yates may be ready to take the reins if Schaub prices himself out of our budget.
If Barwin has a career year and shops himself around, we have Mercilus, Brooks, and Braman in the OLB rotation to compliment Smith (assuming he's still here), Watt, and Cody. Remember Wade likes to bring pressure from everywhere so Cushing can be a pass rusher from the ILB spot.
OR, even more outside the box, put Cushing into the pass rushing rotation at OLB and start Sharper (assuming he's healthy) and Bradie at ILB.
Those options make Barwin more "optional" than "critical", IMHO.
Brown is definitely "critical"
PapaL
Loose Screw
You tea leaf reading outlaw, you.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to drs23 again.
+1
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
But wait, what???? Wasn't Duane Brown (a horrible) reach??? I seem to remember the Texans blowing that as a "reach" of a draft pick......
DUDE has worked out nicely!! Who'd a thunk he'd be here and Eric Winston and Breisel gone?????
ckhouston
Veteran
I agree, because the DEFENSE got us to the playoffs. OD could have been playing QB.
