ThaJokaa
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In college they were all great... But a weak conference
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Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans
- Thread starter Heath Shuler
- Start date
In college they were all great... But a weak conference
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
But no offensive line and its not like Keenum didn't go up against better competition and big schools. His entire body of work is impressive. He just needs to adjust to the speed. If he does that well, he is better than Schaub/Yates (better arm, accuracy, mobility, etc.).
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Was this when Gruden then chimed in " If you were my quarterback I'd fine you for taking that hit on your shoulder"?
ckhouston
Veteran
Arm strength isnt all about how "far" you can throw. Can you throw a 15 yard out pattern on a rope?
That is more what teams want to see. Lofting up a 70 yard bomb doesnt work 90% of the time.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Was this when Gruden then chimed in " If you were my quarterback I'd fine you for taking that hit on your shoulder"?
Yeah, that was right before the quote. You're so on the ball.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
speedfreek
All Pro
I believe Keenum has more wins over ranked competition than Tannehill. (SEC opponents as well).
And Ryan went inside the top 10.
Conference arguements are generally fairly week at the NFL level.
TJ
And Ryan went inside the top 10.
Conference arguements are generally fairly week at the NFL level.
TJ
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Another couple of not so bad QBs:
Kurt Warner - Northern Iowa
Rich Gannon - Delaware
Jake Delhomme - Louisianna-Lafayette
Tony Romo - Eastern Illinois
Phil Simms - Morehead State
Doug Williams - Grambling State
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Im pretty sure when using those parameters its in the context of NFL play so he cant be a runaway from the crowd right now
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Another I left out:
Ben Roethlisberger-Miami of Ohio
Ben Roethlisberger-Miami of Ohio
The knock about the competition level is unfounded.
Keenum played well against every major program he faced.
As a FR in 07:
- He allowed the Coogs to be competitive against Oregon, playing in a platoon system with Blake Joseph. Had Keenum played the whole game, the Coogs had a fighting chance; on the road no less.
- He came in with the Coogs down by 17 against Alabama and almost pulled out a last minute upset, again, on the opponents' field. You asked Bama fans and they would tell you how nervous they were in the second half of that game.
- He threw for 335 yards and no INT against TCU under heavy pressure.
In 08:
- He threw for 387 yards, 4 TDs, no INT against Okl st. in Stillwater
In 09:
- He led the Coogs to a victory over highly ranked Okl. St. - again, in Stillwater. throwing for 366 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT. He also ran for a TD.
- He pulled out a win over Miss St (SEC), on the road, throwing for 434 yards, 4 TDs, and 2 INTs
This year:
- He dismantled UCLA with 310 yards and 2 TDs, no INT - under heavy pressure as usual (unlike Luck who faced pretty much no pressure against the same opponent).
- He shredded Penn St to pieces with 532 yards and 3 TDs.
Keenum performed well under pressure and in front of big, hostile crowds.
You have no worry about his mental make-up.
Keenum played well against every major program he faced.
As a FR in 07:
- He allowed the Coogs to be competitive against Oregon, playing in a platoon system with Blake Joseph. Had Keenum played the whole game, the Coogs had a fighting chance; on the road no less.
- He came in with the Coogs down by 17 against Alabama and almost pulled out a last minute upset, again, on the opponents' field. You asked Bama fans and they would tell you how nervous they were in the second half of that game.
- He threw for 335 yards and no INT against TCU under heavy pressure.
In 08:
- He threw for 387 yards, 4 TDs, no INT against Okl st. in Stillwater
In 09:
- He led the Coogs to a victory over highly ranked Okl. St. - again, in Stillwater. throwing for 366 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT. He also ran for a TD.
- He pulled out a win over Miss St (SEC), on the road, throwing for 434 yards, 4 TDs, and 2 INTs
This year:
- He dismantled UCLA with 310 yards and 2 TDs, no INT - under heavy pressure as usual (unlike Luck who faced pretty much no pressure against the same opponent).
- He shredded Penn St to pieces with 532 yards and 3 TDs.
Keenum performed well under pressure and in front of big, hostile crowds.
You have no worry about his mental make-up.
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Isn't that where our recent draft pic, Brandon Brooks, came from? (to lazy to look it up.) I've never heard of this school. I thought they had made a mistake!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The kool aid is strong in this thread
You can test yourself as to if you are drinking too much of the Koolaid.
The acid fast test is if you have drunk 6 litres or more of the Purplesaurus Rex Koolaid, your stools will no longer be recognizeable. They will be bright green..........and then you know that you you better back off.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Isn't that where our recent draft pic, Brandon Brooks, came from? (to lazy to look it up.) I've never heard of this school. I thought they had made a mistake!
Yep. Miami (Ohio) is actually a school with a rich football tradition. It's known as the Cradle of Coaches - Paul Brown, Sid Gillman, Weeb Ewbank, John Harbaugh, Sean Payton. All of those guys came through Miami of Ohio one way or another.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Wait, what? Is that the same Southern Miss that's in the same "weak" conference as the Coogs??
TdotTexas2Step
Rookie
There's a lot of reasons in this thread by posters explaining why Kennum:
1) Has all the potential to be great
2) Wil be a starter for the Texans one day
3) supposed weaknesses are unfounded
But as someone who hasn't seen a single UH game - not out of choice, I live in Toronto - can someone please describe a fair assessment of weaknesses Keenum has?
I've seen some people saying the lack of arm strength isn't true because he can sling it (and I've seen some Youtube videos of him throwing it impressively, which aren't exactly scout quality, but still). And then of course there's the "lack of competition" argument that people have been fairly debunking.
So what is then that could be considered a weakness? I guess, what did NFL scouts, GMs, even Texans fans who may not be the biggest of believers see that convinced everyone to pass on Keenum through 7 rounds?
1) Has all the potential to be great
2) Wil be a starter for the Texans one day
3) supposed weaknesses are unfounded
But as someone who hasn't seen a single UH game - not out of choice, I live in Toronto - can someone please describe a fair assessment of weaknesses Keenum has?
I've seen some people saying the lack of arm strength isn't true because he can sling it (and I've seen some Youtube videos of him throwing it impressively, which aren't exactly scout quality, but still). And then of course there's the "lack of competition" argument that people have been fairly debunking.
So what is then that could be considered a weakness? I guess, what did NFL scouts, GMs, even Texans fans who may not be the biggest of believers see that convinced everyone to pass on Keenum through 7 rounds?
eriadoc
Texan-American
He stunk it up at the combine. He says he was injured, and he did perform more to form at his Pro Day much later, as well as in private workouts. Kubiak referenced the private workout they held with him as something that impressed him. At the end of the day, he stunk it up and that's on him. Whatever else he had working against him, he made it worse.
The rest of the stuff is really preconceived, overblown crap. His height is the only issue anyone can point to, I guess, but even that is not a big deal. He measured in at 6'1" at the combine. If that's all it takes for your scouts to overlook a guy, then you probably ought to fire your scouts. As for arm strength - hey, he's not JaMarcus Russell. But on the plus side of things, he's not JaMarcus Russell, LOL. His arm strength is better than Matt Schaub's and TJ Yates. Might be pretty close on TJ Yates, to be honest. As for system, he ran his system to perfection, and coincidentally, it's the exact same system that RG3 ran. Keenum ran it better against similar competition. So he can get the job done. He has lateral mobility, he has smarts, he has guts, and he has poise.
There may be reasons why he won't succeed in the NFL, as with any QB. But the total crap they've spewed out about him so far all serves the preconceived notions out there about UH QBs at the pro level, short QBs, and conference competition. The biggest obstacle he faces at this point is opportunity. First round draft picks are given every opportunity to succeed. They can screw up year after year after year and still keep their job (Alex Smith, anyone?) or at least remain in the league as a backup (Carr). UDFAs aren't given anywhere near that kind of opportunity. So he has to avoid injuries (like anyone has control over that) and take full advantage of the limited opportunity he gets here.
It's hard to point out a whole lot of weaknesses since he was beasting against college competition and he was really good in the offense he ran. It'll be easier to point out weaknesses once he starts going against NFL competition.
There's a bunch of scouting profiles out there that point out some weaknesses that people think he might have...
I think his age could be considered a bit of a weakness, but really not much of one. His knee problems could be considered a bit of a concern. I guess he is kind of short...
As far as his game goes I think he may have to slow his clock down some and get used to the pace of Kubiaks offense. Taking snaps from under center, turning his back to the defense for a second or two to perform a play fake and then being able to hit the open guy.
I don't really know though. We have a QB friendly system and a good running game...and Keenum has a good head on his shoulders...
I really expect him to do well...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I believe that a lot of scouts are haunted by the ghosts of David Klingler and Andre Ware and the label of U of H "system" QB. The problem was that these two were actually placed in NFL systems which were at the time not going to succeed no matter who was thrown in.
Keenum's talents would be enhanced by Kubiak's tutilage and the Texans' system......weaknesses, whatever perceived now, likely faded far into the background for the same reasons.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Don't forget Kevin Kolb. Hate to say it, but he just hasn't lived up to expectations.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
U of H definitely has a rep of producing great college QBs that don't work out on the pro level. Maybe Keenum will break that trend.
IMO the Kevin Kolb comparisons begin and end with the school -- that's all. I was not impressed at all with Kolb and am still wondering how he got such a huge contract in Arizona, but I like Case Keenum.
I'm a Longhorn born and bred in Houston, so I've kept up somewhat with UH football over the past decade. The "lack of competition" argument is a fair one, but when you actually watch Case run the offense, it is obvious that he knows how to play the game and, given the right system, could flourish at any level. I've wondered for years whether he might be a perfect fit for the Texans offense with Kubiak at the helm, so it's interesting to see him get signed.
I've met the guy, and he is as down-to-earth and humble as you can find. Welcome to the team, Case, but I hope you don't see any playing time this year.
http://www.gymclassallstars.com/2012/05/that-time-i-met-case-keenum.html
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I've said it before, there's a stigma being a QB coming from UH after Ware and Klingler and as someone else said, Kolb hasn't really lived up to his potential yet, either.
Keenum didn't have a great combine. He's not tall and people don't think he's got the frame to put on much more muscle, so they expect him to be injury prone. QBs that have led the NCAA in passing yardage have a history of failing at the pros: Bryant Moniz, Graham Harrell, Colt Brennan, Sonny Cumbie, BJ Symons...
Keenum is smart. He's tough. He's a good football player. I think he's going to do well. I don't know if he's going to live up to everyone's expectations in this thread, but I expect him to do better than the nation in general thinks he will.
Keenum didn't have a great combine. He's not tall and people don't think he's got the frame to put on much more muscle, so they expect him to be injury prone. QBs that have led the NCAA in passing yardage have a history of failing at the pros: Bryant Moniz, Graham Harrell, Colt Brennan, Sonny Cumbie, BJ Symons...
Keenum is smart. He's tough. He's a good football player. I think he's going to do well. I don't know if he's going to live up to everyone's expectations in this thread, but I expect him to do better than the nation in general thinks he will.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Joe Flacco - Delaware (not at the same level as those others, imo)
If you want to go back into history -
Ken Anderson is one of only 2 players from Augustana to play in the NFL.
Jim Hart came from Illinois State.
Steve Deberg is from San Jose St.
Ken O'Brien went to UC Davis
Randall Cunningham is from UNLV.
Terry Bradshaw - Louisiana Tech
Ron Jaworski - Youngstown State.
I don't think the competition faced in college has any relevance on their success in the NFL. How many guys from top tier programs/conferences never make it? The main difference is the top tier guys get more opportunities (as someone else already mentioned in here).
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
My exact thoughts.
Case is gonna choke away a bunch of 4th quarter leads? You're bumming me out.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
speedfreek
All Pro
First thing first, I believe Keenum can be very beneficial to the Texans by running the scout team.
I read a book in which a coach described how hard it was to prepare for Barry Sanders. There's noboby on the team that can come anywhere close to emulate him to prepare the defense.
With Keenum, the defense will be well prepared against situations where the opponent runs an up-tempo/no huddle offense.
Early on in the season, Keenum was moving the offense too fast for the defense to keep up with. The UH coaches decided to "slow it down" some to give the defense some rest because they were spending too much time on the field.
Keenum was always ready to go on to the next play as soon as the previous one was done with. The ref couldn't place the ball quickly enough for him.
The last few years, there wasn't any college QB that runs the no huddle/up tempo as efficiently as Keenum.
At the moment, I think this is the value that he can bring to the Texans.
By running the scout team, he will help prepare the Texans defense for those occasions better than any back-up QB that have ever been on the Texans roster.
He will help keep the defensive players sharp and on their heels, and the team will be better because of it.
I read a book in which a coach described how hard it was to prepare for Barry Sanders. There's noboby on the team that can come anywhere close to emulate him to prepare the defense.
With Keenum, the defense will be well prepared against situations where the opponent runs an up-tempo/no huddle offense.
Early on in the season, Keenum was moving the offense too fast for the defense to keep up with. The UH coaches decided to "slow it down" some to give the defense some rest because they were spending too much time on the field.
Keenum was always ready to go on to the next play as soon as the previous one was done with. The ref couldn't place the ball quickly enough for him.
The last few years, there wasn't any college QB that runs the no huddle/up tempo as efficiently as Keenum.
At the moment, I think this is the value that he can bring to the Texans.
By running the scout team, he will help prepare the Texans defense for those occasions better than any back-up QB that have ever been on the Texans roster.
He will help keep the defensive players sharp and on their heels, and the team will be better because of it.
redwhiteANDblue
Veteran
badboy
Hall of Fame
would it not be a kick if dwight jones, case and loisoue (sp--ilb) made contributions?
9
speedfreek
All Pro
This is a better example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTLN6OzZNrc&feature=bf_prev&list=PL4117537D7E4CDA0B
Keenum took an unranked UH team into stillwater and beat #5 OSU.
It's a better example, because in 2009 the cougar defense was a disaster and the offense had to win every game in a shootout. OSU had better talent across the board (including NFL talent on offense and defense).
By the time the 2011 Penn State game rolled around, the talent level (and defense) had increased at UH to the point where they were a legitimate top 25 team. (finished #14)
In 2007, Keenum lead a comeback (and almost won) in tuscaloosa against Alabama. Houston lost the game when they came up short in the endzone as time expired after rallying from almost 20 points down -- in front of a crowd of 93,000. He did not start, but came in after the other QB proved incapable of moving the ball.
The guy is used to playing well in big games in front of large crowds.
If he can translate that to the NFL we should be in for some fun times in the future.. If not, he at least got his shot with the hometown good-guys..
TJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTLN6OzZNrc&feature=bf_prev&list=PL4117537D7E4CDA0B
Keenum took an unranked UH team into stillwater and beat #5 OSU.
It's a better example, because in 2009 the cougar defense was a disaster and the offense had to win every game in a shootout. OSU had better talent across the board (including NFL talent on offense and defense).
By the time the 2011 Penn State game rolled around, the talent level (and defense) had increased at UH to the point where they were a legitimate top 25 team. (finished #14)
In 2007, Keenum lead a comeback (and almost won) in tuscaloosa against Alabama. Houston lost the game when they came up short in the endzone as time expired after rallying from almost 20 points down -- in front of a crowd of 93,000. He did not start, but came in after the other QB proved incapable of moving the ball.
The guy is used to playing well in big games in front of large crowds.
If he can translate that to the NFL we should be in for some fun times in the future.. If not, he at least got his shot with the hometown good-guys..
TJ
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Some people seem to be absolutely in love with Case and I hope he turns out the be a real special find for the Texans but the odds just arent in our favor that it will roll that way
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Home boy makes good is always a great story. I'm really looking forward to seeing him this pre-season. But as with any player, the pudding is in the proof, or the icing is on the cake, or the beer is in the fridge, or something like that. LOL
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
He'll be starting by the Thanksgiving game against Detroit.
Let's hope not but I really like this kid.
Let's hope not but I really like this kid.
speedfreek
All Pro
I like the kid but don't want him starting this year either.
Getting thrown into the fire too soon kills your career.
I'd rather give him time to learn under Kubiak (pro red-shirt..)
If Gary can do what he did with Plumber, then Case's potential
could be pretty high..
TJ
Getting thrown into the fire too soon kills your career.
I'd rather give him time to learn under Kubiak (pro red-shirt..)
If Gary can do what he did with Plumber, then Case's potential
could be pretty high..
TJ
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Im not sure "I like the kid" is the right statement, you seem extremely fond of him. I dont think anyone is talking about him starting this year.
gary
Hall of Fame
He'll go from a place holder to starting QB.
speedfreek
All Pro
The guy brought my college team from the doldrums to the national
spotlight.
Now I'm just hoping he can do something similar for the Texans.
It's more like "I appreciate what he did", than it is "I am fond of him".
TJ
spotlight.
Now I'm just hoping he can do something similar for the Texans.
It's more like "I appreciate what he did", than it is "I am fond of him".
TJ
GP
Go Texans!
Well, to be fair...anything can happen. Nobody here thought we'd be watching TJ Yates play a single snap in the 2011 season. Let alone in a playoff game.
I think anytime a QB comes back from blowing an ACL and he STILL is dominant the next year...that speaks volumes to me. To battle through adversity and to actually continue the same performance as before, it means he is tough as nails and always finds ways to succeed. The great QBs are not just talented, they are mentally and emotionally tough...and I think Keenum has the potential to be a good QB.
To be fair, nobody here thought all that much of Zabransky from Boise State when he was on our roster. You had a sense that he was genuinely a system QB on a team that did a lot of gimmickry types of plays, as well. It seems different with Keenum. He looks more like a traditional QB than "just a system QB" and I think the fact that he's from UH is just a coincidence.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Personally, I think the jury is still out on Kolb. He had a flash, then he was put into some "iffy" situations if you ask me.
I still think he'll put together a decent NFL career.
GP
Go Texans!
It's just part of the game.
Kurt Warner and Tom Brady are living proof that late-round guys, or even UDFAs, can succeed in the NFL. If teams had it to do over again, they would love to have one of those guys in the first round.
Plus, QBs drift in and out of luck all the time. Where they land, and what time they land there, has a lot to do with it. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, those are guys who struck gold by being in the right place at the right time.
Stars aligned in such a way that TJ Yates was a few plays away from being in the AFC Championship game last year. Anything can happen. The upside to Case Keenum is that he wasn't chosen in a top round of the draft...he has no pressure to make a team a winner, he just has to soak up the playbook and learn in a setting that I think benefits him and his skill set.
We wasted a lot of time with Matt Leinart, IMO. He used up the QB2 reps when Yates should have been in the mix...instead, Yates is running scout team (the OTHER team's playbook/system) and I actually hope Kubiak bumps Keenum up to QB2 during OTAs and camp. Learn from least year's problems.
drs23
Veteran
Gary is on record stating that he'll keep Matt outta harm's way during camp, that he'll be doing individual drills but not getting in harm's way. Thus TJ will essentially be #1 in camp.