Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Mike Wallace to the Texans Petition

GP said:
Jacoby is sloppy. Period.

It's evident in his punt returning, too. It affects his route running. He doesn't pay attention to details.

When Jacoby breaks off a route two yards later than he should, the ball is in the dirt at his feet. When he breaks off a route earlier than he should, the ball is over his head. He hurts himself, and our team, by being a sloppy route runner.

It's something that I didn't notice until this season. And I was THE leading supporter of Jacoby during the summer of 2011 when the Jacoby vs. David Anderson debate was all the rage around here. I began to really study Jacoby's route running because I couldn't figure out why so many passes to Jacobu ended up short or long and he didn't even have a chance at those passes...I kept thinking, "There's no way Schaub is THAT inaccurate." And he isn't.

Yeah, Schaub is going to be hurried and wing a pass or twelve. But I'm talking about the times when Schaub had time to stand in the pocket and throw. I don't have time to find the film and break it down...and it would just be picked apart anyways, so there's no use in trying.

I stick to my statement: Jacoby is not a "details" guy. This is why he fields punts "on the bounce" in playoffs games. It's why he runs backwards on punts, or from sideline to sideline and gains 1 yard after running for 10 seconds. It's why the ball is over his head or at his feet when he's out there as a WR.

Jacoby is either on or off when the ball hits his hands. He's like laying the roulette wheel...you bet black and it turns up red, you lose. Then you play red, it turns black and you lose. Then you bet red again, and you win. There's just no reliability from him. None. He's not a details guy.
Click to expand...

I said that Jacoby is sloppy and I said he was not a #1 or #2 reciever. I thought I illustrated my point pretty well as the only thing I disagreed with you about was the "timing" part of the offense and Matt throwing balls in the dirt because of it.

We can agree to disagree on that one particular aspect or we can hash it out. A bad ball is not always on the QB, but most of the time I would say it is. An exception would be like like I stated above where the receiver flat out does the wrong thing or goes the wrong direction.

I've seen Matt throw balls in the dirt to Andre and he is about as crisp and clean a route runner as there is.
 
Rey said:
I said that Jacoby is sloppy and I said he was not a #1 or #2 reciever. I thought I illustrated my point pretty well as the only thing I disagreed with you about was the "timing" part of the offense and Matt throwing balls in the dirt because of it.

We can agree to disagree on that one particular aspect or we can hash it out. A bad ball is not always on the QB, but most of the time I would say it is. An exception would be like like I stated above where the receiver flat out does the wrong thing or goes the wrong direction.

I've seen Matt throw balls in the dirt to Andre and he is about as crisp and clean a route runner as there is.
Click to expand...

I didn't read all of your post. I was just re-stating my viewpoint with more detail than I did before. My bad.

Yes, Schaub is going to lame duck a few passes. I agree. But more times than not, the receivers are in the vicinity and can get a hand on a pass. With JJ, I notice that he is many times not even in the right "area"...he's several yards (which can be as much as 6 feet since two yards is 6 feet) and therefore he's out of position to begin with. His frame and athleticism allow him to make up some of that gap, but even so...he is behind the 8-ball by that point in time. That's why a pass glances off his hands awkwardly. He has a lot of that, and it's on him.

He also drops easy passes too. Was re-watching the 2010 Texans/Skins game and he dropped two or three easy passes. It was bad.

My problem is AJ went down, and beginning with the Raiders game we needed him to step up and be a dynamic part of the offense. But he couldn't do it. He was a non-factor in the Raiders game. He was largely absent the entire year.

I think we have better talent for his spot on the roster. I didn't think that in the summer of 2011, but I do now. For the reward he can bring, he's not worth the risk involved with trying to throw to him. He's had many, many years to get there and at the end of the day he shouldn't even be WR3 here.
 
I'd love to see the Texans make Mike Wallace an offer the Steelers couldn't match. Giving up the 26th pick for him is a bargin. But unfortunately, now that the Broncos signed Peyton Manning and still have a lot of cap space left... It's hard to imagine the Broncos not offering Mike Wallace a big contract offer. They would have to give up the 25th pick to Pittsburgh if they failed to match.
 
I'm still of the opinion that Marvin McNutt will be avail #58 and coupled with Lestar Jean should fill out the position. OLB in first.
 
badboy said:
I'm still of the opinion that Marvin McNutt will be avail #58 and coupled with Lestar Jean should fill out the position. OLB in first.
Click to expand...

No thanks. I don't want a guy with a name like Marvin McNutt on my team.

I am a big believer in how a person's name affects their talent level. Guys like John Elway, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, Joe Namath, they all have cool-ass names.

Marvin McNutt? No way.

Might as well be Harold Flaghnessy or Delbert O'Riley. Or maybe Leonard Rustpocket.

He would have to be out-of-this-universe AWESOME for me to look at our roster and see Marvin McNutt's name on there. Sounds like a cartoon character.
 
Texan_Bill said:
GP, I was contemplating starting a Mario Williams is a Bill thread.... Thoughts??


:fingergun:
Click to expand...

No, we need this thread title to pop up on the Texans Talk forum:

WTH? We didn't get Mario? Broncos land Manning too?!?! Shane got killed off on The Walking Dead?!?! Obama is an alien! Do you think we should trade Lowry?
 
I am a fan of Lestar Jean, but I can't extrapolate plays he made in preseason games against a second team defense, into how he will produce in the NFL. While I think Jean may have a chance to start ahead of anyone we draft other than Malcolm Floyd, I have not seen enough to determine he is the long term answer for a #2 or an eventual #1. I started this thread because I am aware of the financial implications of signing Wallace, but he has 3 solid years of NFL production, and if Andre Johnson can not return to 100% or has nagging reoccuring injuries, I do not wish to see the Texans play out the season with Walter, Jones, Jean and a rookie wide receiver. Wallace can be our #1 and AJ can spend his final years as a Texan being the #2 option. If AJ remains healthy, it can be a #1a, 1b situation similar to Fitzgerald and Boldin.
 
GP said:
No thanks. I don't want a guy with a name like Marvin McNutt on my team.

I am a big believer in how a person's name affects their talent level. Guys like John Elway, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, Joe Namath, they all have cool-ass names.

Marvin McNutt? No way.

Might as well be Harold Flaghnessy or Delbert O'Riley. Or maybe Leonard Rustpocket.

He would have to be out-of-this-universe AWESOME for me to look at our roster and see Marvin McNutt's name on there. Sounds like a cartoon character.
Click to expand...

What about LeStar Jean? That sounds pretty cool...


But about Lestar....I would treat him the same way we treated Arian...

Arian played well at the end of the season and looked pretty damn good in an actual NFL game...But we still brought in Ben Tate in the second round...

I'd still draft a good WR and if Jean beats him out then he beats him out. If the rookie WR looks good then the worse thing that happens is you have two good players added to your WR corps...

Honestly, I am thinking we should target WR in the 3rd, but I don't know who will be available when, so its hard to say...
 
I'd really love the FO to give some consideration, not to Wallace necessarily, but a look at someone who might turn into a legit #2 in FA.

Truth is this staff really hasn't done a great job at developing WRs. Lestar Jean? No clue, I didn't get to watch much preseason action this year. But, seems like every offseason we have a flavor of the OTAS and preseason that never pans out at WR.

The Derrick Mason move baffled me. Dude was NOT what we needed then. Maybe Gary and Co. are having to learn position by position that having "their guys" can only work if they can be coached up or that they aren't just lunch pail sort of guys.

IF they do pick up a WR in the first or second I'd have much more confidence if they were a bit more polished.
 
redwhiteblue said:
Vernand Morency
Wali Lundy
Click to expand...

Arian Foster
Ben Tate

Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. That's the game.

But if you grab Wallace, you gonna' pay out the nose for the guy. BIG TIME. Nobody is saying he isn't good enough, it's strictly a problem of economics.
 
Really don't see why this conversation is going on. Yes, it'd be nice to have Mike Wallace, but it would be extremely foolish to pay for him if you want to keep your core together. redwhiteblue, you have to see this.
 
How much more money on this year's salary cap would the Texans save if they released Jacoby Jones, Kareem Jackson and Antonio Smith? Would it be enough to make Mike Wallace a fair contract offer or would it be too small and the Steelers will just match it? Losing the 26th pick for a deep downfield threat is well worth it.

Or would it just be easier to try and trade into the 3 to 5 pick range and draft Justin Blackmon? I'm thinking of a Mike Ditka for Ricky Williams type trade. We offer all of our picks in the top four rounds this year, and then add a future first, second and third next year. Not even sure if that's enough. I don't have Jimmy Johnson's value chart in front of me right now.

I'm thinking outside the box here but I want to make some type of splash this off-season. Something to give the city of Houston some buzz and excitement. It's been frustrating to be losing so many great players.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
How much more money on this year's salary cap would the Texans save if they released Jacoby Jones, Kareem Jackson and Antonio Smith? Would it be enough to make Mike Wallace a fair contract offer or would it be too small and the Steelers will just match it? Losing the 26th pick for a deep downfield threat is well worth it.

Or would it just be easier to try and trade into the 3 to 5 pick range and draft Justin Blackmon? I'm thinking of a Mike Ditka for Ricky Williams type trade. We offer all of our picks in the top four rounds this year, and then add a future first, second and third next year. Not even sure if that's enough. I don't have Jimmy Johnson's value chart in front of me right now.

I'm thinking outside the box here but I want to make some type of splash this off-season. Something to give the city of Houston some buzz and excitement. It's been frustrating to be losing so many great players.
Click to expand...

Really??? :facepalm:

Why would you blow your wad when this draft class is rich in recievers?
 
Texan_Bill said:
Really??? :facepalm:

Why would you blow your wad when this draft class is rich in recievers?
Click to expand...
Justin Blackmon reminds me a lot of Andre Johnson. I feel like he's going to be the most pro ready as a rookie. All of those other guys are a crap shoot. Blackmon is going to be a top three WR in the NFL during his prime. He'll be taking over the game at the same time Andre is at the tail end of his career and nearing retirement.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Justin Blackmon reminds me a lot of Andre Johnson. I feel like he's going to be the most pro ready as a rookie. All of those other guys are a crap shoot. Blackmon is going to be a top three WR in the NFL during his prime. He'll be taking over the game at the same time Andre is at the tail end of his career and nearing retirement.
Click to expand...

All draft choices are a crap shoot. Even at receiver.

Signed,

Mike Williams, Charles Rogers
 
Bulls on Parade said:
How much more money on this year's salary cap would the Texans save if they released Jacoby Jones, Kareem Jackson and Antonio Smith? Would it be enough to make Mike Wallace a fair contract offer or would it be too small and the Steelers will just match it? Losing the 26th pick for a deep downfield threat is well worth it.

Or would it just be easier to try and trade into the 3 to 5 pick range and draft Justin Blackmon? I'm thinking of a Mike Ditka for Ricky Williams type trade. We offer all of our picks in the top four rounds this year, and then add a future first, second and third next year. Not even sure if that's enough. I don't have Jimmy Johnson's value chart in front of me right now.

I'm thinking outside the box here but I want to make some type of splash this off-season. Something to give the city of Houston some buzz and excitement. It's been frustrating to be losing so many great players.
Click to expand...

I think both options are terrible. Removing 2 defensive starters on your team for one over priced albeit very good offensive player is a bad idea. You start severely damaging depth across the team if you do that. Being splashy just to think out of the box is not a good idea.

Getting rid of your entire draft, when you have many needs is bad for similar reasons as above. We need depth or possibly another starter in a few places on this team so more pics the better. Sorry to poop in your cherrios.

Edit:I would also add that it will cost us money to cut KJ
 
bigbrewster2000 said:
I think both options are terrible. Removing 2 defensive starters on your team for one over priced albeit very good offensive player is a bad idea. You start severely damaging depth across the team if you do that. Being splashy just to think out of the box is not a good idea.

Getting rid of your entire draft, when you have many needs is bad for similar reasons as above. We need depth or possibly another starter in a few places on this team so more pics the better. Sorry to poop in your cherrios.

Edit:I would also add that it will cost us money to cut KJ
Click to expand...

/END Thread!

Good post Brew!!
 
dsorc said:
Wallace would not count towards comp picks because he's a RFA. They're separate because otherwise teams would get 2 picks for one player. I still don't think we would sign Wallace simply because of the money. He'd be a clear improvement opposite Andre but we can't afford him.
Click to expand...
When people say we can't afford Wallace do they mean we would be over the cap and unable to sign rookies or do they mean we would allow ourselves little wiggle room after signing him and the rookies?

If the answer is the second one than I see no reason not to get him because he is a proven player who we would know what we are getting.

I am rooting for LeStar Jean but the reality is that even if he kicks ass throughout training camp and the pre season it is quite different many times when the regular season takes place. I would rather see Jean as a our third option if he plays well and have him learn behind Johnson and any other above average veteran receiver we would acquire.

I feel that the team can get a quality OLB beyond the third round and at least a starting talent wide out late in the second. The O-line to me now seems the most pressing need. I don't feel we need to draft a starting OLB because I feel we are set in that regards at the position. That is my opinion though.

The Texans are not going to pick up anybody of note in free agency so none of this matters. I think we will be fine. The team will at least finish with the same record as last year or maybe one game worse but there should not be a major drop off. The season after this upcoming one could be the big one for our Texans in regards to making a serious title run.
 
NETxTexanFan said:
When people say we can't afford Wallace do they mean we would be over the cap and unable to sign rookies or do they mean we would allow ourselves little wiggle room after signing him and the rookies?
Click to expand...

No. They mean you mortgage the future with depth by giving up too muchl.

If the answer is the second one than I see no reason not to get him because he is a proven player who we would know what we are getting.
Click to expand...

Proven? Where?? At the collegiate level??

That means diddly squat.

Signed,

Charles Rogers, Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Curt Warner, and countless others.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Proven? Where?? At the collegiate level??

That means diddly squat.

Signed,

Charles Rogers, Tim Tebow, Vince Young, Curt Warner, and countless others.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he was saying that Wallace is proven, and so it would be OK to give up a first round draft pick to acquire him.
Basically, you would add Wallace's salary, but because you've given up your first round draft choice as compensation for RFA, your rookie salary pool is reduced. It's not reduced enough to offset the Wallace contract, but it is reduced by a decent amount.
 
Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Restricted free agent Mike Wallace isn't drawing much NFL interest
because he wants more money than Larry Fitzgerald:
 
michaelm said:
I'm pretty sure he was saying that Wallace is proven, and so it would be OK to give up a first round draft pick to acquire him.
Basically, you would add Wallace's salary, but because you've given up your first round draft choice as compensation for RFA, your rookie salary pool is reduced. It's not reduced enough to offset the Wallace contract, but it is reduced by a decent amount.
Click to expand...

Why, why would you ever drop that kind of money on an existing receiver when this is actually a very RICH receiver class... Stupid (or for the 'hipsters' - 'stoopid')
 
http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/...117381-ed-trading-wallace-best-for-both-sides

Ed: Trading Wallace Best for Both Sides

...The Steelers did more than sign a good, young receiver when Antonio Brown committed to them through the 2017 season. They lowered the kaboom on Wallace. There was little chance they were going to give into Wallace’s contract demands before they signed Brown; there is no chance now.

That doesn’t mean a multiple-year contract is no longer available to Wallace. It very well could be. But the number offered by the Steelers before AB would likely be reduced dramatically, that is if negotiations even resume with Wallace on a multiple-year deal.

A sign-and-trade remains a possibility, but the Steelers do not like to go that route because it might set a precedent for a player or players to force trades similarly in the future. However, a trade technically can happen and the scenario would look like this: The Steelers give another team or teams permission to talk to Wallace to try to work out a deal. If they do, Wallace would sign his one-year tender with the Steelers, who then would trade him to the other team.

What could they get for Wallace at this point? No team apparently was willing to give up a first-round draft choice for him when he was a restricted free agent, so why would they do it now? Santonio Holmes, remember, brought them only a fifth-round pick. I’m guessing with Wallace, it could be a fourth-rounder.

Do you do that trade? I think the Steelers have reached a point that they might. They now view Wallace as a potential distraction – not his holdout, but if he ever ends it. He not only slumped in the second half of last season...
 
Wallace turned down a $50 million contract, choosing instead to play for $2.5 million this year and hit a monster pay day next year. So, we would be renting him for one year. I can't imagine a worst trade than a run-dominate team with an elite WR (Andre Johnson) trading away valuable picks for a one year WR rental. NO!!
 
dalemurphy said:
Wallace turned down a $50 million contract, choosing instead to play for $2.5 million this year and hit a monster pay day next year. So, we would be renting him for one year. I can't imagine a worst trade than a run-dominate team with an elite WR (Andre Johnson) trading away valuable picks for a one year WR rental. NO!!
Click to expand...
You think a 4th round for a Pro Bowl WR is a bad trade? I'd give our first this season and next for him. Wallace should be willing to work an AJ type contract.Work a deal for what he gets 2012 from Pitts and have him sign lengthy extension this season.

In 2013 we should be out from under the dead money burden of Slaton, Okoye, David Anderson and Orlovsky. That is approx $8million. Pay Wallace the $2.5m this season and use dead money for 2013. That gives us a probowler opposite AJ for two seasons. We have money for Duane Brown now so he is not an issue.

Here is a thread from another source that is from Feb but offers info on 2012 Texans pre-draft. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3464116#post400187767

Arrow down a bit until he talks about Texans.
 
badboy said:
You think a 4th round for a Pro Bowl WR is a bad trade? I'd give our first this season and next for him. Wallace should be willing to work an AJ type contract.Work a deal for what he gets 2012 from Pitts and have him sign lengthy extension this season.

In 2013 we should be out from under the dead money burden of Slaton, Okoye, David Anderson and Orlovsky. That is approx $8million. Pay Wallace the $2.5m this season and use dead money for 2013. That gives us a probowler opposite AJ for two seasons. We have money for Duane Brown now so he is not an issue.

Here is a thread from another source that is from Feb but offers info on 2012 Texans pre-draft. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3464116#post400187767

Arrow down a bit until he talks about Texans.
Click to expand...

The 4th rounder for Wallace is a no brainer. Any team in the league would give that up yesterday. The issue is he wants to be paid similar to what VJax got from Tampa this year. In the neighborhood of 5 years 55 mil. If we already had Brown, Barwin, and Schaub locked up then I'll pull the trigger. In a dream world I'd love to see it happen though.
 
Texn4life said:
The 4th rounder for Wallace is a no brainer. Any team in the league would give that up yesterday. The issue is he wants to be paid similar to what VJax got from Tampa this year. In the neighborhood of 5 years 55 mil. If we already had Brown, Barwin, and Schaub locked up then I'll pull the trigger. In a dream world I'd love to see it happen though.
Click to expand...
Take a few minutes and look at the 2012 roster. Can you not find $10- 11m to cut for a probowler? '

How about re-working J. Joseph and A. Smith's deals. That would pay for most of it. Let's not forget the money we gained from Demeco, Briesel, Leinert, the money "reserved" for Mario but not used,


We can cut Holliday $540K, Iglesias $540K, Ra'Shon Harris $390K, Beck $700K, Sherrick McManus $490K, Shelley Smith $490K, Jon Weeks $540K that is about $3.5 to $4m
 
badboy said:
Take a few minutes and look at the 2012 roster. Can you not find $10- 11m to cut for a probowler? '

We can cut Holliday $540K, Iglesias $540K, Ra'Shon Harris $390K, Beck $700K, Sherrick McManus $490K, Shelley Smith $490K, Jon Weeks $540K that is about $3.5 to $4m
Click to expand...

Those figures are all so close to the league minimum that you're not really saving any money by cutting those guys because you're only going to have to replace them with other league minimum players to fill out the roster.
 
badboy said:
Take a few minutes and look at the 2012 roster. Can you not find $10- 11m to cut for a probowler? '

How about re-working J. Joseph and A. Smith's deals. That would pay for most of it. Let's not forget the money we gained from Demeco, Briesel, Leinert, the money "reserved" for Mario but not used,


We can cut Holliday $540K, Iglesias $540K, Ra'Shon Harris $390K, Beck $700K, Sherrick McManus $490K, Shelley Smith $490K, Jon Weeks $540K that is about $3.5 to $4m
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm not a cap expert so I wouldn't know exactly what would need to be done. I just know that a lot of money would be tied up at the receiver position with Wallace and AJ on the roster together. If it could be done and we could keep our key components then I'd be all for it.
 
TexansFanatic said:
Those figures are all so close to the league minimum that you're not really saving any money by cutting those guys because you're only going to have to replace them with other league minimum players to fill out the roster.
Click to expand...

Interesting you focused on the bottom of the barrel guys rather than the other two areas I mentioned that would allow us to sign Wallace. Why is everyone so willing to shell out big bucks for Barwin and Brown? It's because they are worth it at key positions. Well a pro bowl WR who can play oposite AJ and then move to WR1 when AJ hangs them up is also worth the bucks. I cannot understand anyone not getting this. Hell's bells! Re-work Manning.

IIRC, McNair said Mario's salary for 2011 was apprx $13.8m. Let's say cap was met at $120m minus $14 = $106m where did that 14 go? Escalators? Yeah some, but there were other guys who left whose millions have to fit in somewhere.
 
Texn4life said:
To be honest I'm not a cap expert so I wouldn't know exactly what would need to be done. I just know that a lot of money would be tied up at the receiver position with Wallace and AJ on the roster together. If it could be done and we could keep our key components then I'd be all for it.
Click to expand...
AJ's recent re-worked contract counts $700,000 in base this season. Same could be done for those I mentioned above. If we had Wallace, AJ and Martin, could we cut Walter?
 
badboy said:
AJ's recent re-worked contract counts $700,000 in base this season. Same could be done for those I mentioned above. If we had Wallace, AJ and Martin, could we cut Walter?
Click to expand...

I'm sure you could. Have no idea what the cap ramifications would be though. The only thing about re-working contracts is eventually you're going to have to have their contracts count against the cap. Pushing it back has put some teams in cap hell from my understanding of it. Again, I'm with you if they could make it work.
 
When did this Mike Wallace to the Texans become a thing??? Man, I've missed out on this thread I think.
 
badboy said:
Interesting you focused on the bottom of the barrel guys rather than the other two areas I mentioned that would allow us to sign Wallace.
Click to expand...

I focused on that because that was the portion of your reasoning that was flawed. I'm not arguing that we shouldn't sign Wallace, I'm just saying it can't be done that way.

It's not logical to think you can cut league minimum guys to sign high-dollar guys. You have to fill out your roster. And because there's a league minimum salary, you can't just sign clowns off the street for $50k/year.

I'm all for signing Wallace, but it simply won't be as easy as you make it seem. If it were easy to approach high-dollar players with re-worked contracts and get them to agree, it would be happening a lot more often.
 
Wallace to the Texans is a pipe dream. We aren't cutting 5 or 6 players to make room for Wallace, does not matter how prudent we as a collective may think it is.
 
Nawzer said:
When did this Mike Wallace to the Texans become a thing??? Man, I've missed out on this thread I think.
Click to expand...
Fits in with the "Percy Harvin to the Texans" and "Dwight Howard to the Rockets". Should be in the "Things that will never happen" forum.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top