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I have some 3-4 OLB Questions for the Texans?
- Thread starter RT22
- Start date
1. I believe that we're looking for an explosive pass rusher at WOLB in the 1st or 2nd round.
2. I see Barwin as a SOLB to do everything; play the run, pass coverage, and pass rush.
3. I think Wade wants his WOLB to be primarily a pass rush LB'r and play the run with occasional pass coverage responsibilities. I think the SOLB primary responsibility is to play the run, pass coverage, and occasionally pass rush.
This is how I see it anyway.
2. I see Barwin as a SOLB to do everything; play the run, pass coverage, and pass rush.
3. I think Wade wants his WOLB to be primarily a pass rush LB'r and play the run with occasional pass coverage responsibilities. I think the SOLB primary responsibility is to play the run, pass coverage, and occasionally pass rush.
This is how I see it anyway.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
It would be foolish to even include Barwin at this point until he can re-prove himself, sad but true.
Wade will get together with Texan scouts, Rick & Gary then compile a ranking of each OLB & grade them how well they fit his system.
I magine they will overlay OLB's prospects on top of a Big Board then to assess value @ each draft selection.
Ideally they need to identify at least two who fit both need & value parameters. That one has prototypical size (will use Demarcus Ware comp) in this draft #1 might be Aldon Smith, the other a speed demon with explosive first step & non stop motor like Dontay Moch.
Wade will get together with Texan scouts, Rick & Gary then compile a ranking of each OLB & grade them how well they fit his system.
I magine they will overlay OLB's prospects on top of a Big Board then to assess value @ each draft selection.
Ideally they need to identify at least two who fit both need & value parameters. That one has prototypical size (will use Demarcus Ware comp) in this draft #1 might be Aldon Smith, the other a speed demon with explosive first step & non stop motor like Dontay Moch.
It would be foolish to even include Barwin at this point until he can re-prove himself, sad but true.
Wade will get together with Texan scouts, Rick & Gary then compile a ranking of each OLB & grade them how well they fit his system.
I magine they will overlay OLB's prospects on top of a Big Board then to assess value @ each draft selection.
Ideally they need to identify at least two who fit both need & value parameters. That one has prototypical size (will use Demarcus Ware comp) in this draft #1 might be Aldon Smith, the other a speed demon with explosive first step & non stop motor like Dontay Moch.
They should be looking for 2 OLB's within rds 1-4. Anything they get from Barwin this season should be considered a bonus.
They shouldn't be counting on Barwin like they did Spencer a few yrs ago.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
When I first read that you think we need two OLB in the first 4 rounds I was a little bit skeptical but the more I think about it I think your right.
I could live with the whole draft being on the D side of the ball.
In essence we have Tate and Holliday as draft picks on the O side given they did not contribute at all last year due to injuries.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
And as far as i'm concerned 2 picks in the first 4 rounds have to bolster the secondary.
1 cornerback
1 safety
2 olbs
with free agent additions to :
cornerback
nose tackle
wide reciever
Yeh because starting a rookie and a second year CB last year worked out real well right? We need experience in the backfield and young talent that can get to the QB up front. Otherwise :wadepalm:
Absolutely right! But what you and others seem to be forgetting is Cushing might not ever be the player he was pre piss test. What about Demeco? will he be the same?
Now lets look at the DL. Will Mario accept his role? If he gets off to a slow start will he let it get in his head? Will Smith accept his role? He wanted out of Arizona because he didnt want to play in a 3/4. Both have stated publicly that they have reservations about it. After them does anyone currently on the roster even look remotely close to being an effective 5 tech? DT, nothing even needs to be said here.
This draft should be used entirely on BPA on the front seven of D with FA to fill in the blanks.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
I would like for us to see ILB by draft or FA as well. An insurance plan for DeMeco's position.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
you know what works even better? passing on secondary talent in the draft because you think we "might" be able to lure quality free agents to the secondary here.
now that you mention it, rookies are pretty much a waste of time. lets just skip the draft.
you know what works even better? passing on secondary talent in the draft because you think we "might" be able to lure quality free agents to the secondary here.
now that you mention it, rookies are pretty much a waste of time. lets just skip the draft.
FA's go where the money is. To think drafting and starting another rookie or two in our secondary is the way to go is
.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
With the salary cap most teams can only offer relatively similiar money. Good FA's then go where they have a chance to win a championship. The next tier go where they think they will start and earn their next bigger pay check.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Thankfully the Texans have a reputation of spending money in free agency?
Your "cross your fingers and hope" approach isn't gonna accomplish squat. The Texans need to address some needs in the draft and suppliment what they cant draft later in free agency.
Thankfully the Texans have a reputation of spending money in free agency?
Your "cross your fingers and hope" approach isn't gonna accomplish squat. The Texans need to address some needs in the draft and suppliment what they cant draft later in free agency.
WTF are you talking about? Thats (bolded) exactly what Im saying to do. I simply think its ****ing retarded to even consider using a high pick on another CB and have him start and get torched like Jackson did last year. Those high picks need to be used on players that can get to the QB.
I can only hope and prey that Phillips has more football sense than to go this route. If he does, you'll be happy because you were right........... but not for long. It wont make a **** if we get Asomo (sp) if we cant get pressure on the QB.
You give good NFL QB's time and they will pick anyone apart. Green Bay wouldn't of won the Super Bowl if it wasn't for the pressure they put on opposing QB's all year. But you probably think it was their CB's that caused all that pressure with their great coverage.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I think you are making trading up and down easier than it is.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
I would love to know what Wade thinks about Mark Anderson. It wasn't that long ago that Steve Foley, one of our very own rejects, had a 10 sack season under Phillips. Anderson is that type of athlete and has more of a history of sacking QBs than Foley ever did.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
What your suggesting is that we pass on secondary talent in the draft with no guarantte we can aquire players in free agency. What i'm proposing is drafting some secondary talent (specifically a CB and a SS that have the potential to start) and then aquiring free agents.
2 problems i see here:
#1 We're not gonna get Asomaugh (dont hold your breath or you'll have written your last post)
#2 Sometimes secondarys suck because they suck and it has nothing to do with the front 7 getting pressure. If you watch a game like the Texans vs. Eagles you'll see precisley what i mean.
And if you can't cover recievers they do the same (refer to all 16 Texans games last year for evidence). I guess some "mystery man" in free agency will magically come here and save our secondary. You must know him personally to be so sure he'll come to the Texans?
You may wanna take a look at some of the secondary talent that was available in free agency. Some of those names have since been franchised or tendered.
My points
There are only a select few CB's in the NFL that can really cover a good WR for more than a few seconds.
Having a good pass rush will cover up some deficiencies in the secondary,. No matter how good a secondary is, it will get burned if you cant get pressure on the QB.
If you make a QB hurry to throw the ball, the chances that he makes a errant throw tenfold.
I know we aren't likely to get Asoma, my point was that even he will get burned if he has to cover a good WR to long.
You may want to take a look at the secondary that will be available in this draft. they pretty much suck. Other than the top two (who are overrated IMO) none are better prospects than Jackson was a year ago. If your plan is to start a rookie from this pool then you are looking at a repeat of what happened last year.
This draft is deep in front seven guys and that is a huge need for this team. In fact one could argue that it is just as big a need as the secondary.
DE!
Mario - never played in a 3/4 has voiced concern about how he will fit.
Smith - played in a 3/4 in Arizona and hated it so much he left. Has also voiced his concerns about playing in another 3/4.
backups? You tell me.
DT!
Mitchell - a undersized second year player that is penciled in as the starter right now. He is the guy that is supposed to keep interior Linemen off our Middle LB's? Give me a break.
Cody - really? seriously?
ILB!
Ryans - coming off a major year ending injury. If and I say IF he is healthy he should be ok.
Cushing - they have him penciled in at MLB. He looked like **** in the middle last year when he took over for Ryans. Hell he looked like crap when they moved him back to the outside other than one game. I think we all know he played beyond his true ability his rookie season. Maybe if we get him a wizinator.
Backups?
Sharpton - I actually think he may have a chance. But who knows? Has he ever played in a 3/4?
Who else is there?
OLB!
Barwin - insert picture here of him sitting on the field last year with his foot facing the wrong way. Now factor in that he has never played in a 3/4 before and only really has a few year in all of his football playing career playing defense at all.
Jamison - he might end up ok but.......
Backups? Again who else is there?
Even if by a miracle we land Asoma (not saying we will) we will get torched all day every Sunday with that front seven.
Right now we have a crappy secondary with a crappy front seven. Give me a good pass rush with an average secondary over a crappy pass rush with a really good secondary any day.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
By the way, drafting and starting another rookie isnt giong to make our secondary a good one this year.
We got to start from somewhere. But I think and hope our FO is looking very hard in FA. I would like for us to draft 1OLB,1CB, and S in the early rounds. Hopefully S that able to play both FS and SS. Mid to late rds, 1OLB and 1ILB. Other than that, 3-4th rd, NT that fits Wade's scheme if available. Hopefully, some of the mentioned positions will be filled through FA.
Go Texans!!!
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
The safety's in this draft suck until the 3rd to 5th round where there is some depth. The cornerbacks arent nearly as bad as you suggest. Depending on who's opinion you follow, Kareem Jackson was not a great prospect last year. Its not difficult to find prospects that rate higher then Kareem Jackson did last year.
Our front seven was impressive at times last year. This transition to a 3-4 created new needs such as nose tackles, OLB's, and more 5tech defensive ends. I have more faith in Wade Phillips system but it requires more personel changes.
It's funny to me that you recycled portions of your post in another thread and made additions where you described how bad our secondary is...
SO here's my question to you : With all the problems we have on defense why would you dismiss a chance to add to the talent pool this team has?
Why do you think a rookie linebacker or defensive lineman has more chance to succeed then a rookie in the secondary? They're all rookies and they're all hit and miss.
The worst part of last season was discovering how bad the secondary was within the first few games and knowing there was nothing we could do about it. That bed was made and they had to sleep in it because they squandered theyre opportunities to add talent in free agency and the draft.
As a fan I want the Texans to add the best talent anyway they can and I dont give a damn if it means another rookie cornerback.
I follow my own opinion. If you read some of my post you would see that.
If its not hard then name a few.
Impressive last year?? That tells me all I need to know about you're ability to scout.
Funny you admit that the switch to a 3/4 has created new needs but seem to think they can be filled anywhere anytime.
Show me where I have ever said our secondary is good enough. Exactly the opposite. Our secondary is as bad as youre reading comprehension. Get a clue!!
Wow it just keeps getting worse. I have already explained my reasoning for not wanting to add secondary help with early draft picks. I never said anything even remotely close to what you just suggested.
The last 10 defensive rookies of the year
2000 Brian Urlacher Chicago Bears Linebacker
2001 Kendrell Bell Pittsburgh Steelers Linebacker
2002 Julius Peppers Carolina Panthers Defensive end
2003 Terrell Suggs Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
2004 Jonathan Vilma New York Jets Linebacker
2005 Shawne Merriman San Diego Chargers Linebacker
2006 DeMeco Ryans Houston Texans Linebacker
2007 Patrick Willis San Francisco 49ers Linebacker
2008 Jerod Mayo New England Patriots Linebacker
2009 Brian Cushing Houston Texans Linebacker
2010 Ndamukong Suh Detroit Lions Defensive tackle
More power to you! In away I hope we do draft a CB high in the draft. That way Kubiak wont be here for another year.
that's what I was thinkingBelichick & mussop are synonymous
And this means???
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Thats great. If i've seen a player i form my own opinion to. Problem is there are a LOT of players and each has roughly 10-12 games. I wont pretend i've seen them all play and i read lots of scouting reports. I'd be foolish not to value some of the opinions out there. If you want to keep your head in the dirt thats fine.
Instead i'll give you a sampling of where Kareem Jackson was projected to go last year:
pro football weekly 2nd-3rd round
fanball.com #7 ranked cornerback (no round designation)
profootballdraftguide2010 -harris publication- #13 ranked cornerback (no round designation)
usa today 4th round
lindy's sports 3rd round
sportingnews 4th round
There are plenty of Secondary players projected to go before the 4th round this year. Here in a few days we'll know exactly how many and i'd be happy to count them all for you.
I've already cited the eagles game to which you made a blanket statement. Did you watch the games? I did not and have not commented on ignoring the front 7 but the secondary was downright bad. Historically bad. If you need a point of reference read the following artice:
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/12722/the-worst-pass-defense-in-nfl-history
The Texans pass defense finished the season up with a total of 4280 yards given up passing. Amazing.
I made no such comment. In fact if the highest ranked player when the Texans select is a linebacker or a lineman then I would endorse the pick. However, i am not afraid of another rookie cornerback as a starter.
Your list of defensive players is impressive. I notice only a couple of those players made the transition from DE in college to LB in the NFL. Its also apparent most of them played for domminant playoff caliber defenses that contributed to their success. Needless to say, we dont have a playoff caliber defense.
A cursory look at rosters reveals plenty of secondary talent that have had success as a rookies:
Revis ----- The island
Devin Mccourty
Jarius Byrd
Antonio Cromartie
Brandon Flowers
Sean Smith
Vontae Davis
Leon Hall
Joe Haden
Tj Ward
Deangelo Hall
Dunta Robinson
Terrence Newman
Quentin Jammer
Laron Landry
Sean Taylor
Aquib Talib
D Rodgers-Cromartie
Earl Thomas
Eric Berry
We can both make stats say what we want but at the end of the day the fundemental difference between us is our willingness to start another rookie cornerback.
Your rationale suggest Patrick Peterson cannot help this team because he is a rookie. Not his skill set. Not his 40 time. Not some drug addiction we dont know about. The only reason you think a rookie cant help at the cornerback position is because he's a rookie. Ridiculous.