I hear ya' (and agree).
I've softened my tone about Amobi over the years. It will be interesting to see what they do with him in Wade's defense, if he's even a fit for a 3-4.
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Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense
- Thread starter srrono
- Start date
I hear ya' (and agree).
I've softened my tone about Amobi over the years. It will be interesting to see what they do with him in Wade's defense, if he's even a fit for a 3-4.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think he is going to be an excellent rotation DE spelling both Mario and Smith. I know that isn't what you want out of your 1st round picks but it is what he seems best suited for in this transition and sometimes those decisions just have to get made.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Steel, I'm inclined to agree that their draft strategy in the 1st round has been flawed.
However, I don't think any of those picks(with the possible exception of Jackson), are examples of reaching. One could argue Brown was a reach, but it has been well-documented that he was coveted by the Chargers (who had the next pick)... Also, Brown is a better tackle than some of the tackles taken before him.
that being said, concentrating on drafting a 1st rounder that is an immediate plug and play is a big mistake, IMO... Either a team is assembled well enough to compete with other elite teams so that a targeted FA in an area of need is justified, or, the team is too far away... in which case, a rookie plugged into a position of need is not going to send the team over the top. Teams that don't draft for need, do much better. If the Texans were determined to draft for certain positions, the appropriate thing to do is to trade down, accumulating the position and extra picks to be spent on best available talent. I think the Texans are finally ready to use free agency to fill the needs. Unfortunatlely, I fear they will end up drafting for need (like they have done) once again in the first round now that the free agency period is likely to be AFTER the draft. We can't catch a freakin' break!
IMHO - that's been part of the problem. Not necessarily playing the Best player just due to draft status. If a guy isn't ready yet, he just isn't ready - I don't care if he's a #1 overall. Sit him, let him learn, let him play in a rotation or special situations. Let the ghost of HWSNBN haunt you forever for 'forcing' a guy into the lineup early.
My take:
2007- Okoye - not technically a reach, but VERY raw. Zero chance of immediate impact.
2008 - Brown- reached for need - Agreed. The guys we wanted were gone and we NEEDED a big LT. He's worked out, but at the time, he was a reach.
2009 - Cush - Cush/Matthews was the call - no reach, BPA.
2010 - Jackson - reached for need - Agreed. The Texans weren't the only ones who had him graded as highly, but they were outnumbered by the ones that didn't.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
And I'll vote the other way. For me, a reach is when you draft a guy who'll be there at your next pick. None of these guys would have been there at our next pick.
Most mock drafts had Okoye going long before our pick. By all accounts, Brown was going to be gone to the Chargers with the next pick. Cush was obviously not a reach. And lots of other teams with CB needs had Jackson picked highly. He wasn't the CB I expected us to take but the CB I expected us to take wasn't even the next CB taken.
Okoye and Jackson may not turn out to be good picks in the long run but given the information available to us, they weren't total incompetence picks, either.
JimBaker488
Waterboy
Though a disappointment, Okoye was highly rated and not a reach. And
Kareem was also rated by many including Mike Mayock as a worthy first-rounder.
Brown was a definite reach, and there was a big, really very big red flag on Cushing for which the usually very risk-aversive and conservative Texans inexplicably ignored (they had to see it, eveybody else did !). And I would hardly say he "appears to have worked out" ?
2007- I wanted Willis over OkOye, even though Ryans was drafted the yr before. Willis was the BPA at that time. IMHO Turns out Revis should've been the pick.
2008 I was OK with the Brown pick. Because it was a HOF Alex Gibbs pick and something needed to be done about the terrible LT play that had plagued this franchise since its inception. Browns play has been about what I expected. He's young and still has plenty of room for improvement.
2009-Cushing, Didn't have a problem with the Cushing pick. Even though I wanted Matthews.
2010 Jackson, terrible pick, I wanted them to beef the OL even more and draft Iupati. (He was gone) But Bulaga would've been my choice. There wasn't much difference between Jackson,McCourty or Wilson as 1st rds. Or Ghee,Murphy and Verner in rd 3/5. I felt this way at the time.
My top choices for the 2010 draft were R.Matthews,Iupati and Bulaga.
I feel the same way about the 2011 draft. If Miller/Peterson aren't there. I hope they dont reach for Amukamara. He's not that much different than A.Williams or Davon House. Who could be drafted late 1st early 2nd rd. My choices for the Texans if they cant trade down (Really hope they can) are Julio Jones,Cam Jordan or Muhammed Wilkerson at #11.
Wilkerson is a big fast guy that can play NT or DE. He weighs 315 lbs and has the frame to put on plenty of more LBS. He also has 35' in arm length. (Longest of any DT at the combine) and bench pressed 27 times. Which is alot harder to do than guys with short arms.
None of the 1st rd OLB's are any better than the 2nd/3rd guys. Reed/Moch/Carter. IMHO I hope they dont reach for a OLB in the 1st rd.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
2007 - Easy. Passed on Patrick Willis, Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, and Michael Griffin. All huge needs outside of Willis, who is a top 3 MLB in the league now. Okoye was a horrible pick. Obviously a 2nd rd talent who flew up draft boards because he was 19 yrs old and did well at the combine.
2008 - Antoine Cason or Curtis Lofton. We needed a CB and Cason had a tremendous college career. Lofton would be a great ILB in a 3-4, but again who knew we'd be running a 3-4 a few years later. Brown was a reach, but not a bad pick.
2009 - Cushing was a good pick and although hindsight tells you Clay Matthews, no way you could have known that at the time.
2010 - We passed on Dez Bryant. We also took Jackson over McCourty, who was considered the better prospect by everyone else.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Sure there was plenty of debate about that. But you will admit many mocks had one or both of them being gone when the Texans picked and Okoye was the first of the two off the board in many mocks. Didn't get the best player available but they didn't reach for Okoye. Heck lots of teams the year before regretted not taking DeMeco.
Not arguing the merits of these particular guys, just with the terminology. Amuk isn't even expected to be available at #11 by lots of folks. That isn't a reach.
nero THE zero
All Pro
What's your definition of reach? You're arbitrarily labeling every pick a reach, regardless of circumstance.
I got it.... you define reach as anything not in accordance with your wishes.
Understood.
I define reach as to who I would pick vs who they pick and how the results of the Texans said pick turns out.
I've already called my shots as to who I think will be the best pick vs who might be available at #11. It will be interesting to see who they pick and who I would pick. Then look 3 yrs down the road and see how the 2 players compare.
So far the Texans have done a lousy job overall the last 4 yrs in the war room and this is the root of their little 6-10 problem. I mean last yr Gary didn't even see fit to show up at the combine. Talk about living on your 9-7 laurels. LOL
I've already called my shots as to who I think will be the best pick vs who might be available at #11. It will be interesting to see who they pick and who I would pick. Then look 3 yrs down the road and see how the 2 players compare.
So far the Texans have done a lousy job overall the last 4 yrs in the war room and this is the root of their little 6-10 problem. I mean last yr Gary didn't even see fit to show up at the combine. Talk about living on your 9-7 laurels. LOL
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just curious, why insist on using a different definition than everyone else? Is bad pick or different pick than you would have made really that much harder to type out?
This describes my thought process better than the term reach or my previous post. The Texans sure do seem to draft alot of underachievers.
We will have to agree to disagree.
OkOye has sucked for 4 yrs and I suspect he will suck for a 5th yr. Phillips didn't even mention him when he was talking about the roster and the DL. To me that speaks volumes.
Fandom is the only reason to think OkOye wont suck in 2011.
Point is time will tell if they've made the right pick. I dont care about reach vs no reach. I care about the talent that has/is drafted. So far in 9 yrs that has = epic fail. Look at their record.
Just because Gary and Rick are better drafters than Casserly doesn't mean they are even average.
Repped
Agree on all points except the FA thingy. Not gonna happen. Why do you think Gary said they're going to look at CB's in the draft. (Which I agree with BTW) Because all they are going to be signing in FA are the 2nd tier CB's like Josh Wilson for example. Even he would be an upgrade over the CB's that played last yr.
If Rick and Gary were serious about fixing the secondary. They would sign Ike Taylor and draft A.Williams or D.House late in the 1st (By trading up) or in the 2nd. That way we wouldn't be forced to watch the putrid performances of guys like McCain and Molden.
A secondary of Taylor,House, Jackson and Allen at CB
And Quin,McDaniel at S doesn't look so bad. The Texans just have to spend the resources to make it happen and I dont see them going that route. Hopefully I'm wrong.