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It's official... Troy Nolan is someone we can work with.

Mr teX said:
You don't have to start to make your prescence felt. He's gotten spot duty against other teams & you heard nothing from him. Moreover we were still garbage back there giving up nearly 300 a game in the air & he was apart of that, however much he did play. There is noone back there that can be worked with for a starting spot except for KJ; And that's only b/c he's a rookie. & for all the plays he made they were still against garbage qbs.....that being said, if there is someone who obviously could be better for us & available.... get him.
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Ugh this is such horseshit. And I'm in a bad mood so I have no patience for it.

You think everyone in our secondary sucks yet you can't realize it's because we have terrible coaches. Every DB we have had has gotten worse since they've been here. That's not luck and it's not player skill. It's coaching.

Nolan should have been starting since game 1. Wilson isn't the answer. Rotating between Wilson and Nolan isn't the answer either and frankly it's ****ing stupid. Nolan could have had 7-8 INTs this year if he had been the starter and kept up the pace he established in the time he did play. That's a pretty ****ing big deal. On top of that he would have been able to actually LEARN THE SCHEME instead of having to rotate playing time. Safety is a ****ing complicated position, you can't just learn it instantly with limited reps. You expect Schaub to be able to run the offense while trading reps with Leinart each game?

Blaming the individual players is just pointless emotional spewage at this point. Those of you who like to engage in this kind of **** would just assume fire everyone on the defense so far as I can tell. Newsflash: Noone on the defense played well this year. I guess we need to release every last one of them and start over, huh? ****ing genius, really.
 
Carr Bombed said:
If you're willing to give KJ a pass for being a rookie, well that's basically what Nolan is also. He was a second year rookie this season. So how can Kareem Jackson be worked with, but Nolan can't?
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And if I had to be completely honest here...


I have more hope for Troy Nolan than I do Kareem Jackson. I didn't like the Jackson pick when we made it and I don't like it now. There's something about Nolan that I like, he's just always around the ball....if we can coach him up, he can be a ball hawk for us. Not every good player came into the league and hit the ground running, I think Nolan is going to be a good safety in this league....provided he gets good sound coaching (which is something this defense has lacked since it's inception.)
 
Carr Bombed said:
Three NFL starts is enough for you to decide a player has no future in the NFL?


Okay...

Also how can you blame him for that tipped ball to Britt. I thought it was another good play by him, just a bad bounce of the ball. The only thing that was, was another time the kid got his hands on a ball. If you get your hands on the ball enough, you're going to make plays and he has a knack for making plays. I think 3 picks in 3 starts and now a FR is making plays half the time.
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I like Nolan as depth right now. The thing that concerns me a bit with him is speed. There were ALOT of times where we were in a 2 deep coverage and the safeties were late coming over helping the CBs over the top. We need a couple S that can cover some ground. I definitely want to keep him as depth though. As he learns the game his anticipation will improve and his speed will be less of an issue.
 
wagonhed said:
Ugh this is such horseshit. And I'm in a bad mood so I have no patience for it.

You think everyone in our secondary sucks yet you can't realize it's because we have terrible coaches. Every DB we have had has gotten worse since they've been here. That's not luck and it's not player skill. It's coaching.

Nolan should have been starting since game 1. Wilson isn't the answer. Rotating between Wilson and Nolan isn't the answer either and frankly it's ****ing stupid. Nolan could have had 7-8 INTs this year if he had been the starter and kept up the pace he established in the time he did play. That's a pretty ****ing big deal. On top of that he would have been able to actually LEARN THE SCHEME instead of having to rotate playing time. Safety is a ****ing complicated position, you can't just learn it instantly with limited reps. You expect Schaub to be able to run the offense while trading reps with Leinart each game?

Blaming the individual players is just pointless emotional spewage at this point. Those of you who like to engage in this kind of **** would just assume fire everyone on the defense so far as I can tell. Newsflash: Noone on the defense played well this year. I guess we need to release every last one of them and start over, huh? ****ing genius, really.
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F-ing terrible. The only person doling out "emotional spewage" is you. You've got it in for the coaching staff so bad that you're letting a few ints against a couple of bad qbs fool you into thinking this guy is worthy of a starting position in an nfl secondary. You know, i was gonna come with this long drawn out post ripping your post to shreds but the product on the field speaks volumes. Anyone who can look at anyone in this secondary & think that anyone person is the answer to start anywhere...well, i've got some lake front property smack dab in the middle of the sahara i'd like to sell you.

Really, 7-8 ints huh. Jason Allen has what 3-4 since he's gotten here with us. Do you think he's a starting caliber cb in this league? Was it coaching that got him released in Miami too? Last year we thought Pollard was the answer at SS too. This year, he was exposed to the high heavens. A few years before that, it was Demps. You either have it or you don't in this league & I'm in no mood to be fooled again just b/c a guy made a few good plays in a few spot starts. Everyone keeps talking about wanting a "proven" HC or DC, well the same specificity applies to the safety spot. Well for once this organization need to go out & get a prototype, fast, ball hawking safety. Not an old past his prime retread, not a young project who might be able to patch it up & certainly not anyone currenty on this roster.

While it's true that some of these players will be part of the 2011 team, none should be starting & im still up in the air if any should even be consider for a starting role at this point.
 
Personally, I don't think any players jobs are safe on defense. I'd hope the new DC comes in, trashes the depth chart and conducts his own personal scouting process throughout the offseason and TC to create a new depth chart.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Personally, I don't think any players jobs are safe on defense. I'd hope the new DC comes in, trashes the depth chart and conducts his own personal scouting process throughout the offseason and TC to create a new depth chart.
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That would be "traumatic." :heh:
 
Carr Bombed said:
Holy crap. Why wasn't this kid playing sooner? :bat:
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The same thing happened with Foster last year...we had to wait until all was lost to find out that the guy was better than what we had starting in front of him. I thought Nolan should have replaced Wilson from day one and how much longer do I have to watch Okoye missing tackles and falling down?
 
ubecool454 said:
The same thing happened with Foster last year...we had to wait until all was lost to find out that the guy was better than what we had starting in front of him. I thought Nolan should have replaced Wilson from day one and how much longer do I have to watch Okoye missing tackles and falling down?
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Nolan played with Wilson. He is more of a SS than a FS, he filled in for Pollard.
 
Troy Nolan is someone we can work with? No one in our historically bad secondary deserves a free ride. Replace them all.

Nolan had ample opportunity all season to show something and waited till the last game to do anything other then blow a coverage or miss a tackle. I have waited for years to see the Texans draft a respectible safety but they dont believe in building that way and see the safety position as a matter of 2nd tier importance.

Guess what happens when you over value your secondary talent - 6-10. Dont make the mistake of thinking Nolan is ready.

free agency

1a = cb joseph johnson or Cromartie

Draft picks

1. cb harris
2. s moore
3. s black
 
powda said:
Troy Nolan is someone we can work with? No one in our historically bad secondary deserves a free ride. Replace them all.

Nolan had ample opportunity all season to show something and waited till the last game to do anything other then blow a coverage or miss a tackle. I have waited for years to see the Texans draft a respectable safety but they don't believe in building that way and see the safety position as a matter of 2nd tier importance.

Guess what happens when you over value your secondary talent - 6-10. Dont make the mistake of thinking Nolan is ready.

free agency

1a = cb joseph johnson or Cromartie

Draft picks

1. cb harris
2. s moore
3. s black
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Yeah, I'm thinking of the old "throwing the baby out with the bath water" saying.

So you're solution is to start another 3 rookies in the secondary, because we saw how well that worked this season. :kubepalm:

Some of y'all are just speaking out in anger and you're not thinking logically. We're not going to dump every corner/safety we have on our team just because they were put in a position to fail. The truth of the matter is we can't evaluate anybody in the secondary until we get someone in here who knows what the hell they're doing. That's how bad our defensive scheme was...it caused EVERYBODY to fail, even players who were steals just a year before.

Also you make it sound like Nolan was just falling down all year and that simply was not the case. In his first season he made alot of plays for the amount of time he played and in other cases he made mistakes...which is what young guys do. Not everybody is Ed Reed and can come in here and hit the ground running and the truth of the matter is we have TWO safety spots to fill so even if you get someone through the draft I doubt you're going to find two rookies who can come in from day one and be a safer option than a player who now has a year of experience under his belt.


The solution here is not to just cut every player, that's short sided. The solution is to get somebody who knows what the **** he's doing in here and let him work with these guys and evaluate what he has, because I'm positive some are salvageable.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Yeah, I'm thinking of the old "throwing the baby out with the bath water" saying.

So you're solution is to start another 3 rookies in the secondary, because we saw how well that worked this season. :kubepalm:


Some of y'all are just speaking out in anger and you're not thinking logically. We're not going to dump every corner/safety we have on our team just because they were put in a position to fail. The truth of the matter is we can't evaluate anybody in the secondary until we get someone in here who knows what the hell they're doing. That's how bad our defensive scheme was...it caused EVERYBODY to fail, even players who were steals just a year before.

Also you make it sound like Nolan was just falling down all year and that simply was not the case. In his first season he made alot of plays for the amount of time he played and in other cases he made mistakes...which is what young guys do. Not everybody is Ed Reed and can come in here and hit the ground running and the truth of the matter is we have TWO safety spots to fill so even if you get some through the draft I doubt you're going to find two rookies who can come in from day one and be a safer option than a player who now has a year of experience under his belt.


The solution here is not to just cut every player, that's short sided. The solution is to get somebody who knows what the **** he's doing in here and let him work with these guys and evaluate what he has, because I'm positive some are salvageable.
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Yeah, & we've also been bamboozled into thinking we've got something or "a steal" only to find out the next year the player "stole" from us with the contract we gave him. Look i hear ya CB, i just would rather not even go into next year with this kind of mindset regarding the defense & especially the secondary. The whole engine needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. So he made a few plays.....that just helps him avoid being released before training camp. Come in & earn the job & show some improvement on the things that you struggled with last year ON YOUR OWN!!

Someone in this thread or another posed the idea that the new DC needs to come in & post a blank sheet of paper in the locker room as the depth chart...I'm thinking that's a pretty good idea right now.
 
Carr Bombed said:
So you're solution is to start another 3 rookies in the secondary, because we saw how well that worked this season. :kubepalm:
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Did my post say anything about starters?

My solution involves free agency and young draft picks to compete with the talent on hand...

Sounds like you want to give them another chance next year and hope for the best. Yeah that sounds reasonable...did you watch the games this year?

Nolan got a lot of snaps this year. He may turn out to be an average starter down the road...but this season he was more of a problem then a solution like the rest of the secondary.

You can believe its all bad coaching if you want ,but they better get a quick infusion of talent back there if they plan to be respectible.
 
powda said:
Did my post say anything about starters?

My solution involves free agency and young draft picks to compete with the talent on hand...

Sounds like you want to give them another chance next year and hope for the best. Yeah that sounds reasonable...did you watch the games this year?

Nolan got a lot of snaps this year. He may turn out to be an average starter down the road...but this season he was more of a problem then a solution like the rest of the secondary.

You can believe its all bad coaching if you want ,but they better get a quick infusion of talent back there if they plan to be respectible.
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First of all, I never said I didn't want to draft anybody or pick anybody up. :mariopalm:

I said we're not going to cut everybody in the secondary and not everybody in the secondary is a big steaming pile of crap and some can be worked with. See the thread title? Saying Nolan is a player that "can be worked with" is not me saying he's going to be the next Troy Polamalu. :rolleyes: Whether he becomes a starter or not isn't even the point, the point is he has enough talent and shows enough raw instincts that we don't need to pull the plug and send him packing yet. I think he has a future in this league.
 
Carr Bombed said:
First of all, I never said I didn't want to draft anybody or pick anybody up. :mariopalm:

I said we're not going to cut everybody in the secondary and not everybody in the secondary is a big steaming pile of crap and some can be worked with. See the thread title? Saying Nolan is a player that "can be worked with" is not me saying he's going to be the next Troy Polamalu. :rolleyes: Whether he becomes a starter or not isn't even the point, the point is he has enough talent and shows enough raw instincts that we don't need to pull the plug and send him packing yet. I think he has a future in this league.[/QUOTE]

Yeah......most likely as a special teamer.
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Carr Bombed said:
First of all, I never said I didn't want to draft anybody or pick anybody up. :mariopalm:.
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No you were critical of me for suggesting they should use draft picks on the secondary. So which is it? Should we use picks or not?

Carr Bombed said:
I said we're not going to cut everybody in the secondary and not everybody in the secondary is a big steaming pile of crap and some can be worked with.
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Your sugar coating the problem. Don't put frosting on our pile and call it choclate cake. Since the NFL began we currently have one of the top 5 worst pass defenses ever. EVER! Now i'm not suggesting we cut everyone ,but i wouldn't be upset if they did. The free ride should be over for players like molden,mccain,wilson.

Carr Bombed said:
See the thread title? Saying Nolan is a player that "can be worked with" is not me saying he's going to be the next Troy Polamalu. :rolleyes:
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He doesn't have to be Troy Plamalu. At this point i would settle for average.
 
powda said:
No you were critical of me for suggesting they should use draft picks on the secondary. So which is it? Should we use picks or not?.
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Well that's, because I misunderstood your post. I thought your only solution was to draft 2 more rookies and sign one FA



powda said:
Your sugar coating the problem. Don't put frosting on our pile and call it choclate cake. Since the NFL began we currently have one of the top 5 worst pass defenses ever. EVER! Now i'm not suggesting we cut everyone ,but i wouldn't be upset if they did. The free ride should be over for players like molden,mccain,wilson.
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I'm not sugar coating the problem, I'm trying to be realistic. I don't think everybody is a terd or not salvageable. I'd like to see what some players can do with good sound coaching. Nolan being the main one and I agree with you. As far as McCain, Molden, and Wilson go..they can all kick rocks.



powda said:
He doesn't have to be Troy Plamalu. At this point i would settle for average.
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Agreed.
 
stingray said:
Agreed. Let's see if Kubiak sees the same thing and gives him a shot. We can put Glover back at CB and Troy at free safety.
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LOL @ Kubiak having anything to do with defensive personel decisions... He has been completely dismissed from all duties away from HIS side of the ball (and I like it like that!)
 
I don't remember who it was but I've debated Troy Nolan many times here.

Someone talking about nolans bad angles.

Ok I guess.
 
Rey said:
I don't remember who it was but I've debated Troy Nolan many times here.

Someone talking about nolans bad angles.

Ok I guess.
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Rey I don't think angles had much to do with either of his INTs. The ball went right to him as did some last season. Nothing wroing with that because he still had to catch ball and do something with it. Sorta reminds me of Larry Bird being in the right spot. Gotta do something to be in "right place".
 
badboy said:
Rey I don't think angles had much to do with either of his INTs. The ball went right to him as did some last season. Nothing wroing with that because he still had to catch ball and do something with it. Sorta reminds me of Larry Bird being in the right spot. Gotta do something to be in "right place".
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I think you misunderstood my post. Was not saying that angles had anything to do with the int's.

But his first int he jumped in front of the receiver.
 
Rey said:
I think you misunderstood my post. Was not saying that angles had anything to do with the int's.

But his first int he jumped in front of the receiver.
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Thought you were referring to others posts earlier in pre-season that he takes bad angles which he does.
 
i like nolan too but his picks are a result of our new preasure defense rush the qb turnovers will come GO TEXANS
 
Carr Bombed said:
??? He did the same thing last season...
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Two differences though.

A) He's got a pass rush that is making the QB get rid of the ball.

B) He's also got a CB who can man up his guy and let Nolan rome and play center field. And another Safety out there to help too.
 
El Tejano said:
Two differences though.

A) He's got a pass rush that is making the QB get rid of the ball.

B) He's also got a CB who can man up his guy and let Nolan rome and play center field. And another Safety out there to help too.
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I know...

That doesn't mean he didn't get picks and make plays last season.
 
I was at a high school game tonight and DVR'd the Texan game. I've only watched the first half so far but isn't amazing how much better the secondary plays when there is pressure on the QB.
 
I am all for Quin going back to CB and playing Nolan at FS, he is a ball hawk, always around the ball...

Make that move, and I believe you have all bases covered...
 
BullNation4Life said:
I am all for Quin going back to CB and playing Nolan at FS, he is a ball hawk, always around the ball...

Make that move, and I believe you have all bases covered...
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I don't know about that in the base defense, but maybe in the nickel. None of the nickel CBs have wowed me, and Quin is probably the best we have at covering the slot.
 
Lucky said:
I don't know about that in the base defense, but maybe in the nickel. None of the nickel CBs have wowed me, and Quin is probably the best we have at covering the slot.
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How did Harris do? I thought he had the nickel locked up. And thinking about it now, I wished I had payed more attention to who was on the field. But I was just so giddy seeing our team play.
 
ccdude730 said:
How did Harris do? I thought he had the nickel locked up.
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Brice McCain has been the first CB off the bench and playing the slot receiver. He's been OK, and made some plays. Just too many bad memories of McCain for me to endorse him. Harris has only played with the 2nd and 3rd string, from what I've seen.

Edit: Here is a quote from Kubiak suggesting that Quin could still play CB in the nickel defense.

At the start of camp, it appeared rookie Brandon Harris was penciled in to be the nickle corner. Now coaches also have other options.

“We are going to play the guy inside that we think plays the best inside,” Kubiak said. “There are some guys that are strictly outside players and some guys that play the nickel really well. We’ve got some options and one of our options continues to be Glover (Quin) because he playing the safety position but he’s played a lot of corner. He’s a tackler, he can play in the slot, he can cover and he tackles well. We have some options there but we’ll see how it pans out.”
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Rey said:
But his first int he jumped in front of the receiver.
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Not to take anything away from Nolan, but I don't know that he jumped in front of the receiver. I think the QB was watching the receiver run across the field, didn't see Nolan standing there.
 
thunderkyss said:
Not to take anything away from Nolan, but I don't know that he jumped in front of the receiver. I think the QB was watching the receiver run across the field, didn't see Nolan standing there.
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Ok.

I disagree though.

He was in good position and when the ball was thrown he jumped in front of the pass. Whether or not the qb saw him standing there has no bearing on Nolan being in good position and ready to make a play.

With all the bad safety play we've had on this team I don't understand taking away from a guy that has made plays.
 
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