Justice: "McNair Angering Fanbase"

[Mr. White]

Mods, please merge if necessary.

I'm sure this will be another "bash Justice" thread anyway. Even if he is onto something.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/7346104.html

Oh, Bob McNair. Say you didn't mean it. Tell us they misquoted you, or took your words out of context.
Give us something, Bob. Give us a reason to believe. Tell us those words don't reflect what's in your heart. We want to stick with you, Bob. We know what kind of man you are. We love your decency and charitable heart.
We also know you're the reason there's an NFL franchise in Houston, and for that, we'll be forever grateful. Even a lousy team is better than no team, and we'll never forget you're the guy that got us back in the game.
It's just that we're tired of losing, Bob. I'm not talking about me, either. I'm talking about the people who have bought every ticket for nine years. They're angry, Bob.
And frustrated. And they're not mad at Gary Kubiak or defensive coordinator Frank Bush or any of the usual scapegoats. They're mad at you, Bob. They read what you said about the Texans being on the right track, and they think you're off yours.
They wonder if you care about winning. They wonder why you don't seem to care as much as they care. They think maybe you've grown so close to this coaching staff and this general manager that you can't evaluate them critically.
They hear you brag that the other NFL owners told you they're impressed with the Texans, and they're flabbergasted. How could you fall for that one, Bob? Of course they like you, Bob. You've been their punching bag for nine seasons.
Here's some advice, Bob. Next time you're at an owners meeting, go ask those guys what they think of Bill Belichick. Here's a clue: They don't much care for him. They think he's an underhanded jerk and that he'll do pretty much anything to win.
It's a competitive sport, Bob. It's about beating the other guy. Sure, it's a partnership on many levels, but the bottom line is that for the people who buy your tickets and fill up your stadium, winning is the only thing that matters.

Poor timing

And here's something else, Bob. Even if you're thrilled that the other owners like you and even if you think the Texans are on the right track, you're not supposed to say so.
Not during a week like this when the Texans have lost again, when they looked inept for a half before making a game of it. To your fans, a loss is a loss is a loss. Close is no good.
You seem to like close. You've bragged on the Texans twice this season, both times after close losses. Really, Bob? Are you that out of touch with your customers?
Your fans would like to know that you care as much as they care. When the guy in charge says things are going along swimmingly, that only minor tweaks are needed, they don't know whether to laugh or cry.
It's not like you are an absentee owner, either. You watch the video. You attend practice. You speak to the team.
When you leave the impression that you like the way things are going, you insult the fans who pour their heart and soul into this team. They seem to hate losing more than you hate losing. They're furious about being a doormat, and they wonder why you're not.

Losses pile up

For them, it has been nine years of the same old stuff. The Texans are 54-87. That's not Matt Schaub's record or Kubiak's record. That's your record, Bob.
The Texans have one winning record and zero playoff appearances, and there's no way of looking at this team and thinking it's on the right track.
Defensively, the Texans are awful. They're awful on special teams, too. They have some respectable offensive numbers, but far too many of those have been compiled after the team fell hopelessly behind.
The Texans don't appear to be a well-coached team, Bob. There doesn't seem to be much imagination in the game plan. Or maybe the coaches are doing all they can with a bunch of mediocre talent.
Regardless, the Texans are playing out the string again, going nowhere. Your coach, Kubiak, says the same stuff week after week, and yet the bottom line never changes much.

Misguided thinking

Now you tell the fans the Texans are on the right track, and maybe you said it because you believe it. Maybe you see your team for what you think it is rather than what it actually is.
Maybe you're convinced Kubiak and general manager Rick Smith will get things figured out and that there's no reason to get mad and start firing people.
You may also think that Reliant Stadium will be sold out forever, that people around here love football so much they'll never stop buying all the tickets. You could be right about that, Bob. People around here do love football, and they really want to love the Texans.
Right now, they're looking for a reason to believe. They're having a tough time finding one, and you're not helping things, Bob.

 

[Ryan]

Probably Justice's best in a long, long time...simply to the fact that he has a better chance at reading this then one of our many complaints or letters to him.

 

[CretorFrigg]

No, he's right. Justice is right.

 

[TexansSeminole]

No, he's right. Justice is right.

It's not hard to see. A blind man could right this article. That's what's so frustrating about what McNair has been saying.

 

[GNTLEWOLF]

It's not hard to see. A blind man could right this article. That's what's so frustrating about what McNair has been saying.

In my opinion a blind man could look at this team and see it is not on the right track, that it is stuck in neutral; but when I think it is so obvious all I have to do is come on this board and the sunshine club seems to think all is well and I know we are in for several more long hard seasons. McNair thinks just like these people and if you want to know what he thinks or how he thinks, just listen to a member of the Sunshiners. Things will change when the last Sunshiner sees it needs to change and not until then. I think I just threw-up a little...Bleh...

 

[Malloy]

I'm very sorry, but regardless of whether or not Justice is right, I absolutely HATE his way of communicating. I don't care who you are, you do not talk to other adults that way.

I'm also very tierd of listening to the entire 'sunshine - hater'-discussion, and I wonder why it is neccesary to berate and generalize about people with different views. I'm guessing that ones own arguments does not hold water.

Sad really, this forum used to be full of intelligent and knowlegable fans discussing anything football, but with a large amount of respect for other fans and their views. I feel that is slipping, I hope I am wrong though.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I'm very sorry, but regardless of whether or not Justice is right, I absolutely HATE his way of communicating. I don't care who you are, you do not talk to other adults that way.

I'm also very tierd of listening to the entire 'sunshine - hater'-discussion, and I wonder why it is neccesary to berate and generalize about people with different views. I'm guessing that ones own arguments does not hold water.

Sad really, this forum used to be full of intelligent and knowlegable fans discussing anything football, but with a large amount of respect for other fans and their views. I feel that is slipping, I hope I am wrong though.

There is a well-known theorem of Psychology that explains aggressive behavior in the "normal" human being..........it's called The Frustration-Aggression Hypothesis.

This hypothesis extends the view that frustration, or failure to reach a certain desired goal due to circumstance, often leads to aggression, or behavior which intends harm.

For example, as applied to football, after a game fans of the losing team are much more likely to feel aggressive and/or carry out aggressive actions than fans of the winning team.

Accordingly, the phenomenon we are now seeing in the Texans fan base and specifically in our own MB members cannot be considered "pathological or unexpected............but entirely predictable. To their credit, it is important to note that this development seldom exists in the absence of great passion.

 

[Old School]

There is a well-known theorem of Psychology that explains aggressive behavior in the "normal" human being..........it's called The Frustration-Aggression Hypothesis.

This hypothesis extends the view that frustration, or failure to reach a certain desired goal due to circumstance, often leads to aggression, or behavior which intends harm.

For example, as applied to football, after a game fans of the losing team are much more likely to feel aggressive and/or carry out aggressive actions than fans of the winning team.

Accordingly, the phenomenon we are now seeing in the Texans fan base and specifically in our own MB members cannot be considered "pathological or unexpected............but entirely predictable. To their credit, it is important to note that this development seldom exists in the absence of great passion.

Unless you are in LA or Detroit, then it is more like Reverse Frustration-Aggression Hypothesis!!

 

[infantrycak]

It's not hard to see. A blind man could right this article.

I'm guessing a blind man could write a better article.

 

[Thorn]

I'm guessing a blind man could write a better article.

 

[BullsOnParade]

I'm very sorry, but regardless of whether or not Justice is right, I absolutely HATE his way of communicating. I don't care who you are, you do not talk to other adults that way.

Lighten up dude, it's a column.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm very sorry, but regardless of whether or not Justice is right, I absolutely HATE his way of communicating. I don't care who you are, you do not talk to other adults that way.

I'm also very tierd of listening to the entire 'sunshine - hater'-discussion, and I wonder why it is neccesary to berate and generalize about people with different views. I'm guessing that ones own arguments does not hold water.

Sad really, this forum used to be full of intelligent and knowlegable fans discussing anything football, but with a large amount of respect for other fans and their views. I feel that is slipping, I hope I am wrong though.

1. This is America, or atleast it used to be. Freedom of speech baby.

2. If your tired you dont have to visit this MB. There are several other MB's out there. Unfortunately you're going to have a hard time not finding one where people dont share Justice views on this subject. It's part and parcell to being a fan of a losing franchise with a clueless or worse doesn't care owner.

3. I'm happy to see that you and only you can judge the baseline for the intelligence of this MB. I'm glad to have somone like you around that's obviously trained in the field of studying human intelligence. Man how lucky we are to have someone of your intelligence on this MB.

4. You say you want to talk more about football. But nowhere in your post did you mention one thing about football. (Good job) If you want to talk football and the failings of McNair/Smithiak regime we can. Starting with why McNair would let an inexperienced HC/defacto GM run his team into a state of constant mediocrity. What bothers me most is Kubiak is the figurehead of this organization and he picked the week of the scouting combine to have his sleep apnea surgery. That's the most important week of the yr for a team that's supposedly building through the draft and supposedly was just a couple of pieces away from making the playoffs. But I guess that was the only time the surgeon had open.

5.Anytime you want to talk football X's/O's I will be more than willing to do that too. Such as why is it the Texans seem to only play well for 2 qtrs every game for the last 3 yrs? I would love to hear from somone of your obovius greater intellect than most of us on this MB. As to what are the shortcomings of the Texans in this area of the game and then maybe we can have a little discussion on how a team with the best WR,the RB that's leading the league in rushing and a solid QB will be missing the playoffs for the 9th straight yr. Or anything else Texans football related you would like to discuss.

Oh well carry on, BTW Justice should know when somebody is average at his job. He goes to work each day with the same predicament that Smithiak suffers from.

 

[Wolf]

Sounds like Justice read GP's thread and rolled with it

 

[bckey]

I'm guessing a blind man could write a better article.

I actually liked it. It is one of the few articles by Justice I can say that about. It sums up the way the majority of Texan fans are feeling after Bob's comments. And the chances of Bob hearing about it and reading it are pretty good as opposed to him ever reading a letter from one of us or some threads on one of the boards. Thank you Richard Justice.

 

[Lucky]

I'm also very tierd of listening to the entire 'sunshine - hater'-discussion, and I wonder why it is neccesary to berate and generalize about people with different views. I'm guessing that ones own arguments does not hold water.

Accordingly, the phenomenon we are now seeing in the Texans fan base and specifically in our own MB members cannot be considered "pathological or unexpected............but entirely predictable. To their credit, it is important to note that this development seldom exists in the absence of great passion.

I think CND is right, this anger is to be expected. But, Malloy is also correct. These attacks on each other should stop. I now have a better understanding of why the pro-Kubiak side wants him retained.

They think maybe you've grown so close to this coaching staff and this general manager that you can't evaluate them critically.

Just like Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, and Brian Cushing have fans. Just like David Carr had fans. Gary Kubiak has fans. These fans want Gary Kubiak to succeed. These fans aren't necessarily putting Kubiak above the team, because in their mind Kubiak and the team are intertwined.

I very well may have been the one who introduced the label "Sunshine Club" into the forum. If not, I surely was a major propagator of the term. I shoulder as much of the blame as anyone for the cattiness that has ensued. Obviously, one side of the Kubiak debate will not get what they want. It's time that we stop taking our disappointment out on each other. We need to remember that we are united together as fans and ultimately desire the same thing. To support a winning team.

 

[JB]

I think CND is right, this anger is to be expected. But, Malloy is also correct. These attacks on each other should stop. I now have a better understanding of why the pro-Kubiak side wants him retained.


Just like Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, and Brian Cushing have fans. Just like David Carr had fans. Gary Kubiak has fans. These fans want Gary Kubiak to succeed. These fans aren't necessarily putting Kubiak above the team, because in their mind Kubiak and the team are intertwined.

I very well may have been the one who introduced the label "Sunshine Club" into the forum. If not, I surely was a major propagator of the term. I shoulder as much of the blame as anyone for the cattiness that has ensued. Obviously, one side of the Kubiak debate will not get what they want. It's time that we stop taking our disappointment out on each other. We need to remember that we are united together as fans and ultimately desire the same thing. To support a winning team.

Well said!

 

[infantrycak]

I actually liked it.

I don't think you drew the right inference from what I wrote.

 

[IDEXAN]

Mr White you've left me totally confused ? Awhile back you accused me of being some kind of imposter for thinking enough of a Justice story in the Chronicle to post the story on this website, and now here I login this morning and you've gone and posted another Justice story yourself ?
Well no matter, I'm glad you did post this Justice acticle because it's good reading and he seems to really have hit a nerve among Texan fans. My real question is will Bob McNair see the article and will Justices comments draw a response from the Texans' owner ?

 

[FirstTexansFan]

Agreed Lucky, if we'll just write our opinions, and not see the need to denigrate the opposing view in that same sentence, we'll squelch much of this anger. I've learned as I've went along to control my fingers, it's called maturing as a poster. Of course, I'm older than Methuselah, so that wasn't a difficult hurdle to jump

 

[JB]

Agreed Lucky, if we'll just write our opinions, and not see the need to denigrate the opposing view in that same sentence, we'll squelch much of this anger. I've learned as I've went along to control my fingers, it's called maturing as a poster. Of course, I'm older than Methuselah, so that wasn't a difficult hurdle to jump

 

[steelbtexan]

Lucky

Explain to me why the pro Kubiak wantshim retained?

if there's a reason other than the A&M loyalty. Or stat geek fan I want to know why keeping Kuniak/Smith is a good idea. I guess making the playoffs. Much less a SB is too much to ask for.

 

[Wolf]

only thing I can see on pro kubiak is this

Would the new coach keep the Offensive coaches or blow the whole thing up with a new system? Kubiak has done really well offensively and we have had a lot of turnover with coaches on that side of the ball. His downfall is obviously defensively and the Texans have spent a lot of draft picks to fix that part of it and IMO Holland is probably the only one I'd like to see retained.

A good DC would go along ways to help Kubiak

but with that said. I still would like "The Chin"

 

[Lucky]

Explain to me why the pro Kubiak wantshim retained?

I think it boils down to the fact that they like him. There are certainly different reasons for their affection. Kubiak made the offense watchable. Kubiak was the one who convinced McNair to dump David Carr. Maybe they heard him speak at the Touchdown Club and were inspired? There are a myriad of reasons, I'm sure.

 

[steelbtexan]

I think it boils down to the fact that they like him. There are certainly different reasons for their affection. Kubiak made the offense watchable. Kubiak was the one who convinced McNair to dump David Carr. Maybe they heard him speak at the Touchdown Club and were inspired? There are a myriad of reasons, I'm sure.

Thanks for the reply

I'm going with blind faith. Who knowa maybe they will get lucky and Kubes aand co. will lead the Texans to their 1st SB trophy next yr. But I wouldn't hold my breath and I surely wouldn't take the odds in Vegas.

 

[Goatcheese]

If you ever find yourself agreeing with justice it's time to rethink your position.

 

[drs23]

I very well may have been the one who introduced the label "Sunshine Club" into the forum. If not, I surely was a major propagator of the term. I shoulder as much of the blame as anyone for the cattiness that has ensued. Obviously, one side of the Kubiak debate will not get what they want. It's time that we stop taking our disappointment out on each other. We need to remember that we are united together as fans and ultimately desire the same thing. To support a winning team.

Good post, Lucky. I want to support a winning team as well and I've been a fan of Gary Kubiak though I'm to the point that I agree that 'something' has to be done. Does that make me a Cloudy Sunshiner?

 

[Lucky]

If you ever find yourself agreeing with justice it's time to rethink your position.

Justice flip-flops so often, it's impossible not to find yourself in that position at some point.

 

[Brisco_County]

I expect a professional writer to be better than writing the name "Bob" after every sentence. That's just annoying.

But it's good to see the Houston media putting the screws to McNair after being more than fair to his coach for five years. East coast media wouldn't have given him three.

 

[drs23]

Agreed Lucky, if we'll just write our opinions, and not see the need to denigrate the opposing view in that same sentence, we'll squelch much of this anger. I've learned as I've went along to control my fingers, it's called maturing as a poster. Of course, I'm older than Methuselah, so that wasn't a difficult hurdle to jump

JB, one of the other resident Methuselahs, beat me to it.

MSR

 

[houstonspartan]

Lucky

Explain to me why the pro Kubiak wantshim retained?

if there's a reason other than the A&M loyalty. Or stat geek fan I want to know why keeping Kuniak/Smith is a good idea. I guess making the playoffs. Much less a SB is too much to ask for.

I think it's two simple reasons.

1) Fear. They're terrified of the unknown. Kinda sad, really.

2) His personality. I have the feeling Gary Kubiak is the nicest human being on the planet. I would chop off my right arm to be his neighbor. I would give him the keys to my house if he asked. But I don't want him coaching my team. He's terrible at it.

 

[Playoffs]

Lucky

Explain to me why the pro Kubiak wants him retained?

1) It's not the offense

2) If we fire Kubiak, it'll be 3 years of rebuilding -- smallest O-line in the league, for one.

3) What I read id the Texans have the least imaginative/most predictable defense in the league(?)

If we change, we have to go smashmouth football. This team isn't built for that, imo.

 

[Brisco_County]

1) It's not the offense

2) If we fire Kubiak, it'll be 3 years of rebuilding -- smallest O-line in the league, for one.

3) What I read id the Texans have the least imaginative/most predictable defense in the league(?)

If we change, we have to go smashmouth football. This team isn't built for that, imo.

This is all true, and they are things that worry me. But if we get a west coast offense minded OC, we may be able to keep the current personnel on the O-line. That is the only way to avoid at least two rebuilding years, which would diminish some of Andre's resolve to stay in Houston.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

1) It's not the offense

2) If we fire Kubiak, it'll be 3 years of rebuilding -- smallest O-line in the league, for one.

3) What I read id the Texans have the least imaginative/most predictable defense in the league(?)

If we change, we have to go smashmouth football. This team isn't built for that, imo.

As pertains to the D, what IS it built for? I still haven't figured it out.

 

[Heath Shuler]

If you ever find yourself agreeing with justice it's time to rethink your position.

blind squirrel brother, blind squirrel

 

[DX-TEX]

If you ever find yourself agreeing with justice it's time to rethink your position.

Maybe he is getting respect because he is the only member of the mainstream, local media who is calling out McNair and not just kissing his arse.

 

[infantrycak]

I think it's two simple reasons.

1) Fear. They're terrified of the unknown. Kinda sad, really.

Try seeing that he has done what he is good at, building an O. He has definitely failed at getting the D built and that is on him.

2) His personality. I have the feeling Gary Kubiak is the nicest human being on the planet. I would chop off my right arm to be his neighbor. I would give him the keys to my house if he asked. But I don't want him coaching my team. He's terrible at it.

Nope. I have met several people who knew him at A&M and they have all said he is an arrogant ass. Don't care one way or another myself.

 

[Playoffs]

...if we get a west coast offense minded OC...

I was more thinking Cowher/smashmouth.

As pertains to the D, what IS it built for? I still haven't figured it out.

I think the D can be schemed/coached up to a good level quickly. Predictability is a big nemesis.


Something I did not include that I should:

Opportunity cost -- some good looking coaching options available this offseason: Cowher/Gruden/Fisher(?)

 

[Playoffs]

Never mind.

That Cushing/Smith Texan-on-Texan fight that resulted in a penalty just sealed Kubiak's fate.


Enjoy Denver, Gary ..... c'mon Clutch Cargo!

sheesh

 

[Hervoyel]

I think you're right about the defense. I once saw Dom Capers and Vic Fangio of all people make a respectable 3-4 defense out of players they got in an expansion draft. Granted it aged quickly because it was made of mostly older veterans but they took all these guys from all over the league and had them playing good football in a single training camp.

Oh wait, you guys saw that too....

Still, anyway we had no offense but our defense was absolutely better than the ranking it held at the end of the year. We had no offense to speak of so that hurt but they were better than anything that's shown up in the 5 years that Kubiak and his flunkies have been trying to coach.

 

[HoustonFrog]

1) It's not the offense

2) If we fire Kubiak, it'll be 3 years of rebuilding -- smallest O-line in the league, for one.

3) What I read id the Texans have the least imaginative/most predictable defense in the league(?)

If we change, we have to go smashmouth football. This team isn't built for that, imo.

Respectfully, this is the biggest fallacy thrown out there. New coaches aren't dumb. They take what works and then add their twist. Falcons, Dolphins, Saints, etc didn't need 3 years. In this NFL teams change by the year. Look at Dallas' fall and KCs rise

 

[cdollaz]

Respectfully, this is the biggest fallacy thrown out there. New coaches aren't dumb. They take what works and then add their twist. Falcons, Dolphins, Saints, etc didn't need 3 years. In this NFL teams change by the year. Look at Dallas' fall and KCs rise

Pretty much. Anyone who thinks it takes years to turn a team around is an i d i o t WRT to football.

 

[disaacks3]

Well, if the "fanbase" wasn't angered BEFORE today's fiasco, they certainly are now!

The Offense just needs better playcalling to get their feet under them in the first half.

The Defense....it needs a FS & at least 1 CB. - It also needs some real coaching. If your dead last at something, you're doing it wrong, especially when your secondary hasn't been decimated by injury.

 

[JB]

Pretty much. Anyone who thinks it takes years to turn a team around is an i d i o t WRT to football.

This is the type of post that has turned this board into a very depressing site. Just because someone thinks differently than you do, you decide you have to attack their football knowledge?

Way to much attacking others around here.

 

[Hervoyel]

Respectfully, this is the biggest fallacy thrown out there. New coaches aren't dumb. They take what works and then add their twist. Falcons, Dolphins, Saints, etc didn't need 3 years. In this NFL teams change by the year. Look at Dallas' fall and KCs rise

And what I can't understand is why it's repeated so often when it's been demonstrated over and over again recently that when good coaches take over they can turn a reasonably talented team around in a short period of time. In New Orleans, Atlanta, Miami, and even Kansas City we've seen coaching changes result in turnarounds in a very short period of time. Tampa Bay has won 8 games this year following a 3-13 collapse last year. The Rams have been terrible for years and they have more wins than we do (by one admittedly) and the Lions just won their 4th game. One more win by them and another collapse from us and we're tied with the Lions.

A proven coach could have won 8-10 games with this team so far. I don't have a doubt in mind about that. Change will happen but quality coaches who know what they're doing don't dick around for years. They make changes quickly and those changes make a real difference.

Enough of this bullshit with newbie owners, newbie GM's, newb coaches and newb assistants. Will the Houston Texans PLEASE just hire one S.O.B. SOMEWHERE who knows what in the hell he's doing?

 

[cdollaz]

This is the type of post that has turned this board into a very depressing site. Just because someone thinks differently than you do, you decide you have to attack their football knowledge?

Way to much attacking others around here.

I stand by my statement. They have no football knowledge if they aren't aware that it doesn't take much time to turn a team around. It has been proven time and time again, and recently.

 

[thunderkyss]

I now have a better understanding of why the pro-Kubiak side wants him retained.

Just like Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, and Brian Cushing have fans. Just like David Carr had fans. Gary Kubiak has fans. These fans want Gary Kubiak to succeed. These fans aren't necessarily putting Kubiak above the team, because in their mind Kubiak and the team are intertwined.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, just like I wasn't a DC fan. But I understood the better DC did, the better the Texans did. Same thing with Kubiak.

 

[Hervoyel]

I'm not a Kubiak fan, just like I wasn't a DC fan. But I understood the better DC did, the better the Texans did. Same thing with Kubiak.

That's all good and well but will somebody wake me when Kubiak does "better"?

 

[markn]

From: bud.adams@flamingtacks.com
To: bob.mcnair@houstontexans.com
Subject: Bad luck

Hi Bob, just a quick note to commiserate on today's game. You guys are definitely on track and I recommend you make no changes on your coaching staff. Keep up the great work.

Bud

 

[Kimmy]

From: bud.adams@flamingtacks.com
To: bob.mcnair@houstontexans.com
Subject: Bad luck

Hi Bob, just a quick note to commiserate on today's game. You guys are definitely on track and I recommend you make no changes on your coaching staff. Keep up the great work.

Bud

Sad, but true. Repped

 

[houstonhurricane]

Kubes is done - he carried the goodwill of McNair and basically made him look like a fool. Our owner absolutely believed we would win out...not get pushed around by the VY-less Titans.