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The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK & REPLACEMENT thread
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
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I've never said any different. If he got this thing turned around in 3 years I think he would have done an amazing job. If he did it in 4, good job. If he does it in 5...meah.... not bad.
But if he can't do it in 5, he can't do it.
I wouldn't say I'm thoroughly disappointed. There are reasons this team should be 2-6 right now. There are reasons this team should be 7-1. We're 4-4...... Not as good as it should be. Not as bad as it could be.
He's got everything set up against him (IMO) to have to do some damn good coaching to pull this off (6-2 over the next 8). If he's a damn good coach (& I think he is) he'll do it. If he's not, he won't.
Whether or not he'll be here next year isn't even a concern for me right now. I've got no control of that. The only preference that I have (that he stays) is conditional on how we finish this season.
You're right, the situations are extremely similar.
Other than the fact that Haslett left a probowl running back, WR, tackle (& RG I think)... other than Peyton being allowed to get a pro-bowl corner back, other than Peyton not having to start half a dozen rookies out of necessity.......
Completely similar.
They also made the decision to invest in FAs...... we did not. Like it or not, McNair seems to be good with that decision, which mean to build primarily through the draft, which will naturally take longer.
But other than that, same situation.
You'll have to be more specific, I'm seeing results all over the place. Maybe not what you want to see, but the results are there, and some of it is good.
I'm not saying any different.
I think it's ridiculous to look at a team like Detroit with everything they went through that season (Orlovsky started what 7 games??) & look at their W-L record as the final end all be all results of that season.
Sure that's all that counts in the NFL.
But how many games did you expect them to win? 4?? So for 12 games of the season, they did exactly what you expected them to, & failed to win the 4 games someone penciled in....... really?
3 years ago I took over coaching my 8U softball team. Some of the girls had just moved up from 6U some of the girls had never swung a bat or ran a base in their lives. We played all the teams in this area, & the only game we won, was the game against a team in a similar situation, & it's not like we blew them out.
The parents were disappointed, the girls were disappointed. I told them they had no reason to be. Their girls did an excellent job, they played hard, they learned the game, & they were much better at the end of the season than they were when the season started. Some girls didn't come back.
We had a losing record the next year. Same thing, same disappointment, same speech. Some girls didn't come back.
our third year, we were undefeated in our league & won 1st or second place in 6 local tournaments & placed in the top 25 at the state tournament.
Now, everybody wants to be on our team when we move up to 10U.... I told this years parents, the ones that stuck with us since we moved up to 8U to expect the same thing going to the next level.
Kubiak is not saying this but I think he realizes he made a mistake taking out Foster when Foster did not ask to be taken out in the 3rd q in the red zone.(Or at least I hope so) Then again he COULD be like Carr who said i never really thought about how many TOs I have or that they hurt the team. Just never considered it. Kubiak is a nice guy, but I could see him getting completely outsmarted when he was a kid. Why because I can see him as an adult completeing getting outsmarted every week. Could it be that he doesn't understand completely that details matter. Could it be that he doesn't umderstand that one play can make a difference. How else can you explain him taking out Foster in the red zone in a must win game. And that was a must win game guys whether you realize it or not. I think when he is finally let go, sooner I hope than later, but I am afraid much later, he will say that one of his mistakes was not having a sense of URGENCY to win every game. He tried to plan for the future not understanding that the only thing that mattered was to win every week. He just doesn't seem to get IT. The future will take care of itself if you do everything you can do all the time to win NOW.
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I don't like Wisenhunt. I think he took a team that was on the upswing, & he's got them on a down cycle.
I don't like McDaniels.... even I'm saying WTF??
I don't know that we've seen Caldwell coach yet... not that I don't like him, I just don't know.
I don't like Chan Gailey.... I think he was a yes man in Dallas, & let himself get fired for being a yes man. I like what's happening in Buffalo right now (very surprised).
I don't like Pete Carroll.... he's a fine coach, I just don't like him.
I'm not a big fan of Brad Childress... another fine coach, but maybe not a head coach.
Not a big fan of Andy Reid's.... a fine head coach, no doubt. I just think he didn't help McNabb grow as a player/leader. That IMO is the only reason they hadn't won a Super Bowl. McNabb is the same kid ("I don't want to be a leader") guy that he was when he came into the league. He's a big reason for a much of the success in Philladelphia, but if a Super Bowl Championship is the goal, all those NFC Championship games (in what I thought at the time was a weak NFC) doesn't really mean a whole lot.
Every situation is different.
If I've got a top 10 defense in place like Cable did with the Oakland Raiders, I wouldn't think it would take him 2 years to start playing respectable football. To me, that's 7-9 to 9-7.
The 2005 Texans 7-9 season doesn't count for me, because that team obviously was a 4-12 to 7-9 team.
Our first 8-8 year didn't mean anything more to me than that 7-9 season. The second 8-8 season told me that's where we were. A solid middle of the road team. 2008.... 2009, I think that was a 10 win team, we only won 9, could have won 11...
This year, I firmly believe we have a 10 win team. 9 games ain't going to cut it. Had he not come up short (in my mind) last year, maybe I'd give him credit for what he's dealing with now. Had he exceeded my expectations, got 11 wins or 12 wins last season, maybe a 9-7 or 8-8 season would be over looked right now (by me). But he didn't.
He underperformed the team (my opinion), the team he built in 2009, so he gets no excuses (I've never said any different for 2010).
It sucks for him that he had to draw this schedule this year. But to under-perform his team two years in a row shouldn't be acceptable.
Marinelli was putting together a good team. Shwartz appears to be continuing that. I don't follow the Lions as closely as the Texans, so I don't know how far along they really are. I don't know the leadership situation or the injury situation, or the age of the talent. So I can't say how long "finish" would be in that situation. But anything less than 4 full seasons can't be right. Meaning if they fire him after year 3 I would think that was a little early.
Firing Jauron after what 2 years in Buffalo?? I don't remember, but I don't think he even finished his second year.
This situation was different... I think McNair had a "do the right thing by my players" attitude that kept people on this roster, that Kubiak had to deal with. David Carr is only the most blatant one, & Kris Brown may have been one as well.
The QB thing is so important I don't have a problem giving Kubiak an extra year.
Exactly...... for me it's different because this team is the team he wanted. He's got the Co-ordinators he wanted. & many of these guys (his guys) have been here 3 years or longer.
The only difference between me & the soapers, is that I'm willing to give him till the end of the year to prove what kind of coach he is. The soapers feel they have seen enough.
Nothing wrong with that.
Because Ward has shown to perform extremely well in those same situations.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Yeah, I probably came on a bit strong with my hate for Justice there. I just can't get myself to read anything he writes objectively.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
(Emphasis... well let's just say "it's on me")
That is why you fail.
If you're sitting here in 2010 and telling me that you can't hold our franchise up to the same standard that the other 31 are held up to because we have only had 9 drafts and 9 shots at free agency and because we've only had approximately a decade to establish an identity then I think you need to turn around, go back out that door, and think about the nature of what you're selling here.
Maybe we should just take a little trip to namby-pamby land to go find the Texans some confidence and an identity?
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houstonspartan
All Pro
(Emphasis... well "it's on me")
That is why you fail.
If you're sitting here in 2010 and telling me that you can't hold our franchise up to the same standard that the other 31 are held up to because we have only had 9 drafts and 9 shots at free agency and because we've only had approximately a decade to establish an identity then I think you need to turn around, go back out that door, and think about the nature of what you're selling here.
Maybe we should just take a little trip to namby-pamby land to go find the Texans some confidence and an identity?
I think Thunder is just on here just for shits and giggles, and isn't really interested in serious, rational football talk. He's clearly saying and posting things to get people riled up. He lost me with saying that Detroit shouldn't have fired its coach after not winning a single game in one season.
He likes Rod Marinelli, who made history with the first winless season, but doesn't like Andy Reid and Ken Wisenhunt, coaches that have had massive success.
Um, Ok.
Ward is not Foster. Foster did not ask for a blow, he was taken out. I think it is very possible if the same 2 plays were called with Foster in the outcome would have been different. The most important thing is you don't take the best player out during that situation. I repeat Kubiak has no sense of URGENCY. This team has no sense of URGENCY. Kubiak wants to save for the future. He wants that strong finish when it really doesn't matter any more. A win is a win. JUST WIN BABY!
On the other hand I don't think you get rid of him midyear unless the players quit on him or he commits an unpardonable act and that has not happened yet. I think if they go 0-4 in the next 4 games you may need to consider it if the coach you want is available. Don't laugh 0-4 is very possible. 1-3 is probable. I hope all of you get to post at how idiotic my post was 4 games from now. thanks
Hervoyel
BUENO!
See, that's where I'm coming from. I absolutely believe that now, following the San Diego loss we are looking at a team that's going nowhere in a season that will end below .500 by at least a game, maybe two.
I believe we're looking at a coach who should be in his last year.
I also believe that I will be more than happy to be pointed at and laughed at for saying that if we're all trying to find playoff tickets at the end of the year.
Not at all what I said.
I said don't compare us to those teams.
I said compare us to the Cardinals (not since Wisenhunt took over, but since Denny Green took over & I think you'll see a lot of similarities), the Lions, or the 49ers.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
And the simple fact is the Texans come up short when compared to all but a handful of teams over the last 9 years. The last thing in the world anyone can offer as an excuse after 5 drafts and 5 years of free agency is "But look what I had to start with".
Gary could have coached any of those teams to a bright, shiny .500 record and a bunch of bone-headed highlights and "It's on me" press conference moments. Not one thing more.
The only comparison I'm interested in making with the Texans is to teams that win consistently and contend for the title year in and year out. If we're not one of those then we've failed. If Bob McNair doesn't see it that way then he's cut out to be a profitable NFL owner but not a good one or a winning one.
If we're going to ***** about the mans performance after 5 years, let's wait till after 5 years.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I was bitching about it after four years, so I see no reason to stop now. There's a difference between bitching about his performance and demanding an immediate firing. I ***** about Schaub's performance from time to time as well. If he ever gets to the point where he stays mediocre for 72 games in a row, I'll probably suggest he be fired after the season as well.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
"No"
He's had 5 drafts to fill the roster up with players he wanted. He's had 5 years to install his system in 5 training camps. I'm bitching about his performance right now after he has had 5 years to work on "the product". He's had his 5 years to get ready, now we're seeing what he's concocted over that time and it's fecal in nature.
We're told that you can't fix anything in the middle of a season (essentially correct). You can't fire a head coach and expect any sort of radical change. You can't find any good players who don't already have homes. You can't change a system in the week between games.
Gary's 5 years are up TK. He's failed. I don't need to see the play 8 more times to know that it sucks.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Why compare the Texans to anyone? Who cares what other teams are doing or have done with their coaches? All I care about is the fact that the HOUSTON Texans have yet to be in the playoffs.
What other teams are doing may piss me off, but has nothing to do with the fact the Texans can't get it togeather enough to even be a wildcard.
What other teams are doing may piss me off, but has nothing to do with the fact the Texans can't get it togeather enough to even be a wildcard.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I agree, there is nothing wrong with that. I am giving him until the end of the season as well, I am just convinced that this will be another 8-8 or worse team already. I could be wrong though, of course.
Are you bitching about what he has done in 5 years?? Or are you bitching about what he has done to date?
I have no problem with the latter.
If we're going to ***** about the mans performance after 5 years, let's wait till after 5 years.
I believe different.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Those of us who've felt the party was over after four years, have the
right to CONTINUE "bitching," as the fifth continues to prove a collossal
waste of time if we're evaluating the competency of Kubiak.
We knew it after four years, and nothing has changed in the fifth.
Start 3-1.
Go 1-3 since.
We have a .500 record, halfway through this predictable-ass year.
Unlike previous years, there are no creampuffs to save the Texans'
record after they flame out of the playoff race. When they're 5-7, or worse,
there will be no *miracle* winning streak to mask the stench of this season.
Where are all the "We're 3-1, and still leading the division" people?
Weren't a lot of us "soapers" forecasting this current 1-3 mess
we're in? Can't we use HOW the team plays, to evaluate how they
will *most likely* do against *real* teams?
We've got 8 more games in a row, *ALL* against *real* teams.
Ugly, ugly finish to this turd of the 2010 season. I've seen NOTHING
to make me believe otherwise, and will be ECSTATIC if I'm proven wrong.
....I just don't think I will be proven wrong.
right to CONTINUE "bitching," as the fifth continues to prove a collossal
waste of time if we're evaluating the competency of Kubiak.
We knew it after four years, and nothing has changed in the fifth.
Start 3-1.
Go 1-3 since.
We have a .500 record, halfway through this predictable-ass year.
Unlike previous years, there are no creampuffs to save the Texans'
record after they flame out of the playoff race. When they're 5-7, or worse,
there will be no *miracle* winning streak to mask the stench of this season.
Where are all the "We're 3-1, and still leading the division" people?
Weren't a lot of us "soapers" forecasting this current 1-3 mess
we're in? Can't we use HOW the team plays, to evaluate how they
will *most likely* do against *real* teams?
We've got 8 more games in a row, *ALL* against *real* teams.
Ugly, ugly finish to this turd of the 2010 season. I've seen NOTHING
to make me believe otherwise, and will be ECSTATIC if I'm proven wrong.
....I just don't think I will be proven wrong.
***** all you want, I don't care...... gives me someone to talk to.
I'm just saying don't ***** about what he did after 5 years, till after he's had 5 years.
If you want to ***** about what he will do in 5 years, ***** about what he will do in 5 years.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****
Hervoyel
BUENO!
72 games is a big enough sample to evaluate a head coach in today's NFL.
houstonspartan
All Pro
No ****. His rationale is ridiculus. 4.5 years into a five year same is like 75 percent. Far enough time by which to judge.
Not really, because you're (not just you) upset & disappointed with this team because we haven't been to the play-offs in 9 years.
& we don't know if that is true or not.
I've asked the question many different ways on this board, & it doesn't appear that playing good football is even a concern, as long as we get into the play-offs.
We could have been 9-7 last year, beating the Jets & losing to the Sea-Hawks & everyone would have been thrilled, even though we weren't playing any better.
We don't know what's going to happen over the next 8 weeks, San Chez & LT might miss the rest of the year, Ed Reed, Ngata & Ray Lewis may miss a few games, The Cleveland Browns might win their division, we may very well win 10 games & make the play-offs.
Jets & Ravens only won 9 games last year, same as us. They look high on the hog right now, but you don't know what's going to happen in the next 8 weeks. They might hit a 4 game losing streak (like the Giants did last year). The Colts luck might run out. Randy Moss might tear that team apart.
We might win 7 of the next 8 games. There's only 3 top 10 offenses on our schedule from here on out (compared to the 6 in the first 8 games)...... Kubiak may figure out how to stick with the run game whether it looks like it's working or not. Jets & Baltimore are the only teams with truly scary defenses, the Titans are as bad as we are. & Philly keeps changing QBs every week, that powder keg may blow up in their face by the time we play them.
There are still 8 games to go.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
That's because they haven't played the Texans yet.
I thought the same thing, but subtracting 200 yards from each of those teams wouldn't have changed their position.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
I'm not worried at all about what other teams gotta do.
If the TEXANS gotta win 8 games to make the playoffs, they'd
better damn-well do it. Time's up for Kubiak.
No excuses in 2010.
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
TK..no point in arguing with the soapers...I mean this thread was about 4 threads deep when the Texans started the season ..jumped eight threads deep when the Texans went down 17 to the Skins and jumped up twenty after first loss..etc... etc. some of these guys have been wanting Kubiak gone regardless of the outcome of the season. I am sure if the Texans made the playoffs and loose the soapers would claim Kubiak is not the coach to take them to the next level.(Cmon admit it yall know its true)
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
sorry my bad this thread is from last year...some people really hold grudges. sheesh this thread iis ridiculous
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Well it's been like three years now, and all the arguments you've made on Kubiak's behalf on how he was going to do this and do that and move this team into the upper echelon of the NFL, and yet we're still here at the same spot we were two seasons ago making similar mistakes with a lot of the same problems and lacking the same attitude that many of us complained about then. I think at this point you owe a lot of the soapers a lot more credibility and the benefit of the doubt. It's been a lot more accurate than what you've been claiming was going to happen the last three seasons. This isn't just one season of a disagreement on this guy and his regime now. This is an argument of yours that's been a fail for three years now. At this point, you ought to be conceding to the soapers and recognizing the accuracy of our claims.
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
Hmmmm ...season isnt over and that is our point. Kubiak has brought the Texans their first winning season EVER,and if it wasnt for a rollover by the colts and/or three missed kicks they would have made the playoffs. But seeing how the "soapers" seem to go mute after wins or a wins
This year and last year the games that cost us were lost by the players....even the colts game. Kubiak's playcalling put the Texans into positions to win. This year again the critical losses were due to player mistakes. When the players excecute they win.
I have yet to see any of the fire kubiak crowd give him any credit for winning..they seem to credit the players..huh..funny isnt it.
Then again im going to listen to a group of fans that probably have the soap out for the Rockets and Astros coaches. How are those coaching changes working out?
Will someone please get Gary Kubiak some players that execute and don't make mistakes? Please?
I hate to see a great coach like Kubiak wasted on such lousy players.
No prob. Rick Smith is the greatest GM in like forever.
Cowboys
Giants
Colts
Chargers
Are we saying it is completely inexcuseable to have lost any of those games?
Is it one game in particular that you think we shouldn't have lost?
Giants
Colts
Chargers
Are we saying it is completely inexcuseable to have lost any of those games?
Is it one game in particular that you think we shouldn't have lost?
Uncle BoB is the greatest owner ever.
He gave us the joy of the genius that is Gary and Rick.
He gave us the joy of the genius that is Gary and Rick.
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
"Yes.. In the Colts game .Gary Kubiak told Matt to throw pic six and fumble the ball in the red zone. He shouldnt have called those plays...if he would have been a better coach he would have told Matt that interceptions were bad and to have them returned for TDs really bad.
The Chargers loss was due to the fact Kubiak didnt tell Arian to watch the Calvin Johnson highlights from week one otherwise he would have known to not let ball hit ground. Jacoby should have known that the ball is supposed to be caught in the endzone..I mean cmon you got to coach that up. Andre is so great... Andre is so great..oooops....Andre you dont want to kick the ball with your knee..hey dont they have drills for that? Kubiak should have known his best player wouldnt catch the ball. His qb should never try to get the ball to his best player."
Thank you -Captain Hindsight
houstonspartan
All Pro
Exactly. The things that we have been saying about Kubiak we have been saying since the middle of last year. And, they are coming to fruition.
It is ridiculus to assume that those of us who have lost faith in Kubiak lost faith in him this season.
wagonhed
Team Gruden
I know, right? Isn't it such an unlucky coincidence that the players we draft, from all sorts of different backgrounds, just happen to be ones that can't stop making mistakes?
GNTLEWOLF
Rookie
Some of us lost faith in Kubiak in the middle of his second season...
some of this schnizzle was evident then...
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
I just get tired of our guys making the same boneheaded mistakes
week in, and week out. Good coaching is about teaching. Putting
players in position to make a play, and knowing what to do when they
get there.
Our guys are just reacting, and not dictating to the opponent. It seems
every guy we bring in here never improves, but actually regresses. Some
people hate D-Rob, but his frustration with this regime is quite understandable
in hindsight.
week in, and week out. Good coaching is about teaching. Putting
players in position to make a play, and knowing what to do when they
get there.
Our guys are just reacting, and not dictating to the opponent. It seems
every guy we bring in here never improves, but actually regresses. Some
people hate D-Rob, but his frustration with this regime is quite understandable
in hindsight.
Grams
Veteran
You would prefer Matt Millen?
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
The results speak for themselves. How many playoffs have we been to? Does anybody here really think the Texans will go 6-2 the rest of the year to even have a chance at the playoffs?
I hope they do so folks like me would shut up about it, but I just don't see it happening. The complaints will continue until the problem is fixed, which is standard in any business, football or grocery stores.
I hope they do so folks like me would shut up about it, but I just don't see it happening. The complaints will continue until the problem is fixed, which is standard in any business, football or grocery stores.
These players ought to be playin' for FREE, I tell ya', by the good graces of this great man to spend his precious time coaching them, it is without excuses or reason why they simply don't live up to this coaching genius and giant among .500 head coaches.
The pretzel logic being displayed for a 35-37 coach is admirable, but ultimately myopic (in the nicest sense of myopia, of course).
I don't know how much validity Jason La Canfora has on NFL Network, but his update about the Texans last night was interesting, if for nothing else than the continuous hum of one chin as it pertains to our football team. He said that McNair gave Kubiak the "vote of confidence", but his fate would be determined by making the playoffs or not. And he specifically mentioned that Cowher is interested in the Houston HC position. Where there's smoke? Btw, has Wade Phillips of the 3-4 D ever worked with Cowher? It's too much to ask, but you know what...I'm in the asking mood right now...
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