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Jacoby Jones #2 WR?

The Pencil Neck said:
Chris Johnson wasn't very highly touted and a lot of people had him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. A bunch of teams passed on him and probably didn't even consider him for their first round pick.
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TPN, this is in no way directed towards you.

But when you look at what Chris Johnson did these last two years, I believe it is obvious, there were many people who were flat out wrong.

It is possible that he was graded poorly for reasons not related to talent.

However, someone in Tennessee at least, was able to see the talent.

Some people won't even look at a guy, if he didn't come from a big name school, and has accolades, and accolades heaped upon them. They let other people evaluate talent for them, and they end up with your Reggie Bushes, and Dez Bryants, and Marshawn Lynches.

TPN, rmartin, and several other of our draft watchers do a very good job of recognizing talent. It is their own opinion, because they study these guys, and don't just follow the hype.

I'm seeing the same correlation to people who watch our team. Some people won't believe the Texans have what it takes to win big in 2010.

Some people I can understand. They believe the Texans had what it took to win big in 2009, especially with the strength of schedule we faced. Completely understandable.

Others just have no clue. They look at 8-8, 8-8, 9-7 and say the team is mediocre. They completely ignore how the team is playing. There isn't a mediocre team in the league that can put up our stats, and send so many players to the pro-bowl (largely affirmation by their peers). I will agree that our results have been mediocre. But there is no way I can believe this team is mediocre.

Many identified tackling as a serious issue last preseason. It is a fundamental that a team has to excel at, if they expect to win any games. Those that identified the issue are the guys who are watching football, and not just crossing their fingers hoping we can win. Those are the guys with legitimate gripes about our team, and our coach. Defensively, we ended the season tackling much better than the way we started. Our offensive line was playing much better at the end of the season than they were at the beginning. Andre Johnson is not the same guy who led the league in 2008. & Matt Schaub is a much better QB, than he was in Sept 2009.

IMHO, I can't imagine a real football guy not liking the Texans' chances in 2010. Sure they have a lot of things to prove, but if you watch the team, you know it is not outside of their ability.

Yes it was possible in 2008, definitely in 2009. But in those years, a lot more things would have had to bounce our way. They didn't. Things still need to bounce our way in 2010, all teams need it (ask the Colts, or America's Team), but not nearly so much.

& yes, GK & RS have done a good job of finding diamonds in the rough so far; Owen Daniels, Eric Winston, Zac Diles, Glover Quinn, Jacoby Jones, even Steve Slaton. in 4 years.
 
thunderkyss said:
TPN, this is in no way directed towards you.

But when you look at what Chris Johnson did these last two years, I believe it is obvious, there were many people who were flat out wrong.

It is possible that he was graded poorly for reasons not related to talent.
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Talent evaluation is a hard thing to do. Some guys have all the physical tools in the world but just don't pan out. Some guys have big red flags and turn out great.

Think about all the teams that passed (multiple times) on Jared Allen and Tom Brady, etc.,etc. Sometimes it's about the school, sometimes it's off the field issues.

But a lot of times it's pure luck that some of these guys are successful. If Tom Brady doesn't get lucky with the Tuck Rule, there's no telling if he would have still had the starting spot the next year. Sometimes the right guy gets into the right system and good things happen.

Like I said before, I don't have any issues with the way this team has drafted. We may have our issues getting the right free agents, but we've had a few stellar drafts. Let's hope that this last one proves to be even better.
 
thunderkyss said:
TPN, rmartin, and several other of our draft watchers do a very good job of recognizing talent. It is their own opinion, because they study these guys, and don't just follow the hype.
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Oh, and to get this straight, I'm not one of the guys that breaks down a lot of tape. I do some research and try not to fall for the hype, but I'm not one of the talent evaluator gurus on this board and I don't claim to be.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Oh, and to get this straight, I'm not one of the guys that breaks down a lot of tape. I do some research and try not to fall for the hype, but I'm not one of the talent evaluator gurus on this board and I don't claim to be.
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You sure as hell calmed me down during the draft though, especially during the Dickerson pick when I thought they were taking him as a TE. As a WR, its a great pick, nice job pointing that out.
 
When I re-watched the Pats game on NFL replay I came away very impressed with JJ. He made some fantastic catches and really showed what he is capable of. After he coughed up the ball he responded very well and made up for it. That catch in the back of the endzone was a thing of beauty and Schaub threw the perfect pass and JJ made a terrific grab with great awareness of the boundary.
 
small nizzle said:
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LT
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Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was not a serious post. I mean, no way you are this thick right?

Draft Dez Bryant? Really? Receiver is a position the Texans are loaded at. With Jacques Reeves being the only corner on the roster with more than one year of exp I think CB was an area of need. The 2010 Texans while much improved do not have the luxury of taking the "best player avalible". By the way there was no concensus Dez Bryant was that player. Michael Lombardi, a fairly respected football man, called Kareem Jackson "the most NFL ready defensive back in the draft." He went on to say that whoever drafts Jackson will be able to pencil him in at one cornerback spot and not worry about that position for the next ten years. No offense but I think I will go with his opinion over yours.
As for drafting Duane Brown, maybe you - assuming your a Texans fan and not just a troll on our board - were not tired of watching the Seth Wands and Ephriam Salaams of the world get turnstiled but I was. 76 and 73 make a nice set of bookends.
 
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Sluggo said:
Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was not a serious post. I mean, no way you are this thick right?

Draft Dez Bryant? Really? Receiver is a position the Texans are loaded at. With Jacques Reeves being the only corner on the roster with more than one year of exp I think CB was an area of need. The 2010 Texans while much improved do not have the luxury of taking the "best player avalible". By the way there was no concensus Dez Bryant was that player. Michael Lombardi, a fairly respected football man, called Kareem Jackson "the most NFL ready defensive back in the draft." He went on to say that whoever drafts Jackson will be able to pencil him in at one cornerback spot and not worry about that position for the next ten years. No offense but I think I will go with his opinion over yours.
As for drafting Duane Brown, maybe you - assuming your a Texans fan and not just a troll on our board - were not tired of watching the Seth Wands and Ephriam Salaams of the world get turnstiled but I was. 76 and 73 make a nice set of bookends.
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1. Many draft pundits were saying the same thing.

2. Exactly! LT had been a need for this team since it's inception.
 
Sluggo said:
Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was not a serious post. I mean, no way you are this thick right?

Draft Dez Bryant? Really? Receiver is a position the Texans are loaded at. With Jacques Reeves being the only corner on the roster with more than one year of exp I think CB was an area of need.
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I think you just restated his argument.

We drafted need over BPA.
 
It's certainly a nice luxury for us that we can argue over who would be BETTER as a # 2 WR... rather than the alternative of who can we FIND to play # 2 WR.

We have two guys in KW/JJ that we are confident can draw coverage away from AJ and be a good option for Schaub. They both bring different tools to the table, they'll both get their looks. Who starts the game as # 2 is not important. Who comes into the game based on the matchup/packages we are working with is of the utmost importance.
 
thunderkyss said:
We drafted need over BPA.
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Well evidently my football IQ isnt quite as high as some others. Someone please explain to me why this is a bad thing.

Lets see, pass on Jackson and start the season with Reeves and Quin as the starters. Did Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne retire and I missed it?
The only place I have heard Bryant called the "best player avalible" when the Texans were on the clock was right here on this board. Just a thought, but their are more first round busts at wide receiver than any other position including quarterback.
 
Sluggo said:
Well evidently my football IQ isnt quite as high as some others. Someone please explain to me why this is a bad thing.

Lets see, pass on Jackson and start the season with Reeves and Quin as the starters. Did Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne retire and I missed it?
The only place I have heard Bryant called the "best player avalible" when the Texans were on the clock was right here on this board. Just a thought, but their are more first round busts at wide receiver than any other position including quarterback.
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Most mocks had Dez Bryant going in the early teens to the Broncos. So he was one of the talented players that was dropping down the board. Dropping from the teens down into the mid-twenties isn't really that much of a drop.

OTOH, most mocks had Kyle Wilson ahead of Kareem Jackson. BUT... the fact that both Kareem Jackson and Devin McCourty were drafted before Kyle Wilson was makes it look like the Pro Scouts had a different board than the amateurs.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
BUT... the fact that both Kareem Jackson and Devin McCourty were drafted before Kyle Wilson was makes it look like the Pro Scouts had a different board than the amateurs.
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Exactly. People treat web sites like gold nowadays. It is (a) just someone's opinion and (b) often a response to looking at other web sites rather than game tape. They're a reference not a gospel.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Most mocks had Dez Bryant going in the early teens to the Broncos. So he was one of the talented players that was dropping down the board. Dropping from the teens down into the mid-twenties isn't really that much of a drop.

OTOH, most mocks had Kyle Wilson ahead of Kareem Jackson. BUT... the fact that both Kareem Jackson and Devin McCourty were drafted before Kyle Wilson was makes it look like the Pro Scouts had a different board than the amateurs.
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This is one fella I'm going to watch intently. He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here. I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned. Upside is the term I kept hearing. Will sure be interesting to see how this pans out.

P.S. - No rocks being thrown here at any of the mock drafters. All that sure kept me going here during the long, cold, wet winter. Thanks.
 
Sluggo said:
Well evidently my football IQ isnt quite as high as some others. Someone please explain to me why this is a bad thing.
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Pull up, homie... pull up.

I'm just saying that your argument was simply affirmation of what the previous poster had just said. I don't have a dog in the race, I let the pros do what they do, and watch people argue for months, then see how it all unfolds during the season.
Sluggo said:
Lets see, pass on Jackson and start the season with Reeves and Quin as the starters. Did Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne retire and I missed it?
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This would have been a good argument to that post above. It addresses the issue, and points to the fact that sometimes needs/BPA go hand in hand.
Sluggo said:
The only place I have heard Bryant called the "best player avalible" when the Texans were on the clock was right here on this board. Just a thought, but their are more first round busts at wide receiver than any other position including quarterback.
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Another good argument, you're doing well young pada-wan. Now go get the guy who said all that crazy ****.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think you just restated his argument.

We drafted need over BPA.
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I believe I was the only one who talked about Chris Johnson on this board.
I though he has outstanding speed, and can also run between tackles.

But I wasn' mad when they drafted D. Brown.
In fact, D. Brown was also on the list of the players I thought would fit the Texans.
And as I've said many times, when there's need, it's not a reach.
I rated him a little lower, but we can see from this example, it was "draft for need over BPA".

I think the Texans normally switch to BPA in the later rounds.
 
TheRealJoker said:
It's certainly a nice luxury for us that we can argue over who would be BETTER as a # 2 WR... rather than the alternative of who can we FIND to play # 2 WR.

We have two guys in KW/JJ that we are confident can draw coverage away from AJ and be a good option for Schaub. They both bring different tools to the table, they'll both get their looks. Who starts the game as # 2 is not important. Who comes into the game based on the matchup/packages we are working with is of the utmost importance.
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This! :fans:

And the Texans receivers had improved their blocking skills over previous years.
(Yeah, that call on KW was highly questionable. In another game - I can't remember which, but I did mention it before -our opponent's receiver put up a terrible moving screen and wasn't called for it.)

But I think they still have room for improvement.
 
drs23 said:
This is one fella I'm going to watch intently. He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here. I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned. Upside is the term I kept hearing. Will sure be interesting to see how this pans out.

P.S. - No rocks being thrown here at any of the mock drafters. All that sure kept me going here during the long, cold, wet winter. Thanks.
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Wow, slap my face, call me dirty names and put a boot to my butt then PS no rocks. You are pretty funny. If you are a frequent reader of most of the posts about NFL draft, you would know that BeerLover has mentioned at least twice that Kareem Jackson announced his intention on being available shortly before the draft. That did not leave much time to consider him. I was one of the most vociferous in wanting Wilson and still feel same way. Wilson is a cover CB and Jackson is not but may be able to develop into enough of one to succeed. You appear sir to be the type of guy who is too afraid to ask a pretty girl for a date, but then slams the guy who does ask but gets turned down.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the opinion the draft is a crapshoot and most teams hire the best and brightest not to get hit by the biggest pile of .....well useless players. Imo the Texans front office has established a decent enough pattern of drafing solid players they do miss amobi and barwin come to mind. However, players like JJ Slaton and Cushing give us Texans fans hope when they draft a "NFL Ready" player like KJ.

I am fine with the 5 receivers we have and when you add them to the 11 TE's we have plaenty of people to catch the ball and not too many guys to stop the ball.
 
76Texan said:
I believe I was the only one who talked about Chris Johnson on this board.
I though he has outstanding speed, and can also run between tackles.

But I wasn' mad when they drafted D. Brown.
In fact, D. Brown was also on the list of the players I thought would fit the Texans.
And as I've said many times, when there's need, it's not a reach.
I rated him a little lower, but we can see from this example, it was "draft for need over BPA".

I think the Texans normally switch to BPA in the later rounds.
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I have heard several times that San Diego would have drafted Duane Brown right after the Texans, had the Texans picked someone else, so I don't think it was much of a reach if at all.

The Chris Johnson issue that gets brought up from time to time fails to address the fact that there were quite a few good running backs in that draft. Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Ray Rice and Matt Forte were all 1-2 round picks that year. The Texans didn't just pass on CJ, they passed on a lot of promising young RBs, but in the process of the trade back they picked up a late 3rd which was used to get Steve Slaton.
So the real question is, would you rather have Duane Brown and Steve Slaton, or one of the aforementioned RBs?

Given the needs of the team and no future knowledge at the time, I like the Brown and Slaton (injury aside) combo. Given what I know now, Ray Rice and CJ would be the only two RBs that make more sense. I would trade all of our current RBs for just one Ray Rice :D
 
badboy said:
Wow, slap my face, call me dirty names and put a boot to my butt then PS no rocks. You are pretty funny. If you are a frequent reader of most of the posts about NFL draft, you would know that BeerLover has mentioned at least twice that Kareem Jackson announced his intention on being available shortly before the draft. That did not leave much time to consider him. I was one of the most vociferous in wanting Wilson and still feel same way. Wilson is a cover CB and Jackson is not but may be able to develop into enough of one to succeed. You appear sir to be the type of guy who is too afraid to ask a pretty girl for a date, but then slams the guy who does ask but gets turned down.
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Whoa! badboy. Is that funny HaHa? I did follow the draft post as much as time afforded and did miss BL's posts regarding KJ late(?) announcement for the draft. I did/do appreciate the time rmartin65, BeerLover and yourself spent putting your drafts together but I missed the part about Kareem. I recall hearing mainly about Wilson & McCorty. That is what I was referencing in my statement and I will follow their careers with interest as I will watch how Kareem comes along. As far as asking out the pretty girl, ya missed on that one, she's now my wife. I ain't scaird, now or then. :heart:
 
spurstexanstros said:
4.5 sacks and 18 total tackles....not exactly hitting it out of the park there.
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This is a guy that didn't start playing the DL his until his junior year in college and only had 14 starts as DE. Also, he was used situationally (or rotated) last season, not every down.
 
I see your point TB, but with a high value pick you need mor ebang for your buck. If he inproves this year I will stand corrected
 
I asked if Jacoby wanted to be our #2 or #3 wide reciver!


Jacoby told me and my freind on saturday at training camp while he was streatching.



"i just want to win games thats all i care about right now"



now thats what i want to hear from the pro's
 
slatonisabeast said:
I asked if Jacoby wanted to be our #2 or #3 wide reciver!


Jacoby told me and my freind on saturday at training camp while he was streatching.



"i just want to win games thats all i care about right now"



now thats what i want to hear from the pro's
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Dude your post are much improved. Congrats! I'll Rep you when I'm near a computer.

P.s. sorry for giving you a hard time.
 
drs23 said:
Whoa! badboy. Is that funny HaHa? I did follow the draft post as much as time afforded and did miss BL's posts regarding KJ late(?) announcement for the draft. I did/do appreciate the time rmartin65, BeerLover and yourself spent putting your drafts together but I missed the part about Kareem. I recall hearing mainly about Wilson & McCorty. That is what I was referencing in my statement and I will follow their careers with interest as I will watch how Kareem comes along. As far as asking out the pretty girl, ya missed on that one, she's now my wife. I ain't scaird, now or then. :heart:
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23, I went back and read your post again after reading it 3 times yesterday. I think I have a thick skin but your post seemed directed at the mocks Beerlover,Rmartin65 and I put together and in particular at me. Emails I received after my reply to your post indicate others thought so too.


"He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here. I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned."

I am open to criticism but your comments seemed over the line. Anyway,
back to the thread.
 
Texan_Bill said:
This is a guy that didn't start playing the DL his until his junior year in college and only had 14 starts as DE. Also, he was used situationally (or rotated) last season, not every down.
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Still, he was the 14th pick in second round. WHen you have a large number of players at any position and then draft that same position so high I think it is fair to judge his play. Not saying he should be compared to Okoye but the standards should be similar all things considered. I do expect a lot more from Barwin this season & think I'll get it.
 
slatonisabeast said:
I asked if Jacoby wanted to be our #2 or #3 wide reciver!


Jacoby told me and my freind on saturday at training camp while he was streatching.



"i just want to win games thats all i care about right now"



now thats what i want to hear from the pro's
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SIAB! way to go directly to the player !
 
badboy said:
SIAB! way to go directly to the player !
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thanks! =]

Oh yah! Allmost forgot!

I said to Jacoby your going to have to give me a autograph.

He said man i guess i will have to hurry and sign it. he laughed He said he would give me

and my freind one after it was over.

and he did his autograph is the one on bottom. the scribbles!


jacoby is a man of his word =]

023.jpg
 
badboy said:
23, I went back and read your post again after reading it 3 times yesterday. I think I have a thick skin but your post seemed directed at the mocks Beerlover,Rmartin65 and I put together and in particular at me. Emails I received after my reply to your post indicate others thought so too.


"He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? ". I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned."

I am open to criticism but your comments seemed over the line. Anyway,
back to the thread.
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badboy,

I was going to respond privately but since it seems to you and others that I was over the top I'll respond publicly. In this case it's very obvious that my sense of humor did not come across in the least. My statement:"He (Wilson)was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF?" is the only reference made to the mock drafts here and it was in no way meant to be derogitory. I capitalized proffesional. This was directed at the various professional scouts, teams, GM and those who make the decisions about who/who not to draft. My statement :"They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here"(Wilson & McCorty) was a failed attempt with my dry humor. You pointed out Beerlover's pointing out Kareem coming out early. I missed it and admitted same. I went as far to say nothing was pointed at anyone here. I was by no means in any manner singling you or any other member out.

I see I offended you and perhaps others. For that I apologize, sincerely. That was never my intent. In the future I'll do everything in my means to make sure I come across as intended.
 
drs23 said:
badboy,

I was going to respond privately but since it seems to you and others that I was over the top I'll respond publicly. In this case it's very obvious that my sense of humor did not come across in the least. My statement:"He (Wilson)was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF?" is the only reference made to the mock drafts here and it was in no way meant to be derogitory. I capitalized proffesional. This was directed at the various professional scouts, teams, GM and those who make the decisions about who/who not to draft. My statement :"They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here"(Wilson & McCorty) was a failed attempt with my dry humor. You pointed out Beerlover's pointing out Kareem coming out early. I missed it and admitted same. I went as far to say nothing was pointed at anyone here. I was by no means in any manner singling you or any other member out.

I see I offended you and perhaps others. For that I apologize, sincerely. That was never my intent. In the future I'll do everything in my means to make sure I come across as intended.
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23, you impress the heck out of me! Many thanks for correcting my impression especially publically. That took courage and my hat is off to you. BL, 65 and I get blasted quite frequently about our mocks and just recently slammed on another thread for even talking about 2011 now. We are ok with such jabs as long as they don't come across as a ***** slap when we are already knocked down. You & I are good and I am glad I responded to your first post as it led to a clearer understanding of what you were saying. Please understand that I (and I speak for BL & 65) are open to criticism & hope you participate in our coming efforts. The three of us are already in discussions over players to watch in the soon to begin college season. Steve
 
badboy said:
23, you impress the heck out of me! Many thanks for correcting my impression especially publically. That took courage and my hat is off to you. BL, 65 and I get blasted quite frequently about our mocks and just recently slammed on another thread for even talking about 2011 now. We are ok with such jabs as long as they don't come across as a ***** slap when we are already knocked down. You & I are good and I am glad I responded to your first post as it led to a clearer understanding of what you were saying. Please understand that I (and I speak for BL & 65) are open to criticism & hope you participate in our coming efforts. The three of us are already in discussions over players to watch in the soon to begin college season. Steve
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:offtopic:includeme:
 
<--------------On a lighter note Jacoby tries to convince the Texans' # 1 Wide receiver that he is the right man for the job.
( I still cant figure out how to post pics in the thread)
 
spurstexanstros said:
<--------------On a lighter note Jacoby tries to convince the Texans' # 1 Wide receiver that he is the right man for the job.
( I still cant figure out how to post pics in the thread)
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Johnson, who often mentors the other receivers and has become close with Jones, reminds him to think about each step as it happens and not to envision the touchdown after the catch and run before he’s even stepped on the field.

Link>http://www.foxsportshouston.com/08/...anding_texans.html?blockID=285156&feedID=3551
 
slatonisabeast said:
nice jacoby is a nice guy your lucky you got a picture =]

did your son get a autograph and did you
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Yes we did and DA's as well and so did 250+ Texans fans at the event.

I asked him about the Titans fight and I asked him what set it off and he said he wasnt sure. I told him that i thought it showed heart that the team stood up to them. He said that they were tired of theeir secondary running smack and they had to show the Titans they they were not going be pushed around.

JJ and DA were awesome...as for this #2 wr debate who caress we have alot of good weapons. I say we go 5 wide and dare them to stop us.
 
spurstexanstros said:
Yes we did and DA's as well and so did 250+ Texans fans at the event.

I asked him about the Titans fight and I asked him what set it off and he said he wasnt sure. I told him that i thought it showed heart that the team stood up to them. He said that they were tired of theeir secondary running smack and they had to show the Titans they they were not going be pushed around.

JJ and DA were awesome...as for this #2 wr debate who caress we have alot of good weapons. I say we go 5 wide and dare them to stop us.
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i got andersons at trainingcamp he did not talk just signed then left
 
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