Potential reasons for not drafting a FS

[dalemurphy]

Isn't the centers main job to make the line calls ? That the #1 thing is smarts and most are not big .

The Cowboys of the 90's had Mark Stepnoski at C and he may have weighed 265 . He was flanked by Nate Newton and Larry Allen , who weighed about 330 a piece .
The prototype for ZBS centers is Tom Nalen who was small but strong as an ox .

I think this is key. I think Myers is much better when flanked by stronger, thicker guards. Replacing Studdard with Wade Smith on one side and having Caldwell on the other side should make the line much stronger than Studdard and Chris White at guards.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

are people actually trying to pretend that Myers is decent? really?

Myers is garbage. utter garbage.

as for McNair, he is not doing what it takes to put the best team on the field
his penny pinching ways have made this team less competitive than last year

we had less holes going into last season than we will this year
they say they are building through the draft and too cheap to sign decent FAs this year, but then in teh draft they neglect critical areas of need

i hope the Texans season works out but if it doesn't, at least we can finally get rid of Gary the flatliner and get a decent head coach...but thanks largely to McNair's greed, we probably wont have a season in 2011 anyway....

...but whatever, McNair donated the team to the city out of the kindness of his heart and for that he should be worshipped and given long sensual massages by the Sunshine Crew. Oh wait, he has increased the value of his franchise over half a billion and has still called for a bailout and cried poverty. maybe it wasn't a donation after all, mensas.

just put a winning product on the field or get rid of these clowns and put together a team that can win. when we are 7-9 or worse this year, all the Sunshine kids can thank McNair for bringing football back to Houston...again. and while they are at it they can thank him for a decade of losing football....which is all that he has brought us. period.

Nope ... I think Myers is average at best . I think the guy with best chance of beating him out is already on the roster and not a rookie 3rd round pick .

As far as McNair goes , he does worry to much about the image of his team . That has lead to some bad choices but hopefully that's past that . The other side of the coin is Jerry Jones who is all glitz and glamor . Even to the point of trading for Dez and not picking an OT ... till I think the 5th . OT's don't sell tickets I guess and Jerrah's got a lot to sell .

So at the end of the day , I don't think the Texans fate is in the hands of the FS or C . It's holding on to the ball and making FG's at the end . It's taking the game and not waiting for the other team to give it away . It's someone stepping up to make a play . It's not being denied . It's the will to win . It's tasting blood and going for the throat . It's walking on the field and thinking your the team to beat every game . It's popping someone in the mouth .

 

[HOU-TEX]

We had Studdard, Myers and White/Caldwell manning the interior last season, right? When Studdard performs the best out of all 4 of them, you know the interior of the Oline's going to suck.

I think everyone knows my stance on Myers by now so I'll leave it at that. But let's look at the RG position. Kubiak began rotating White and Caldwell in order to get one of them to take the position by the huevos...they didn't!

IMO, if Wade Smith is anything the coaches say he is then he'll be an instant upgrade at either of the 3 positions. Okay, 1 of the 3 is now upgraded (supposedely), now what? Is Caldwell finally going to TAKE a job from the others? Is Myers going to suddenly get better after 3 seasons? Pffft! White? Pffft! All right Shelley, you're up!

See my point? The interior is still a major concern. Y'all are discussing their pass blocking for Schaub? Pffft! Their run blocking is even worse.

 

[dalemurphy]

We had Studdard, Myers and White/Caldwell manning the interior last season, right? When Studdard performs the best out of all 4 of them, you know the interior of the Oline's going to suck.

I think everyone knows my stance on Myers by now so I'll leave it at that. But let's look at the RG position. Kubiak began rotating White and Caldwell in order to get one of them to take the position by the huevos...they didn't!

IMO, if Wade Smith is anything the coaches say he is then he'll be an instant upgrade at either of the 3 positions. Okay, 1 of the 3 is now upgraded (supposedely), now what? Is Caldwell finally going to TAKE a job from the others? Is Myers going to suddenly get better after 3 seasons? Pffft! White? Pffft! All right Shelley, you're up!

See my point? The interior is still a major concern. Y'all are discussing their pass blocking for Schaub? Pffft! Their run blocking is even worse.

Caldwell is likely to be much better this year. I thought he looked pretty good by midway through last season. Also, Briesel will be back from IR. So, yeah, there is reason to be optimistic about improvements on the interior oline. You are right about the run blocking! It was awful last season. I thought Studdard and White were both really bad. I don't think White makes the team and I don't think Studdard will be starting. While I wasn't impressed with Myers last year either, I'm somewhat comforted to recall his performance in '08, when he had better guards surrounding him.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

We had Studdard, Myers and White/Caldwell manning the interior last season, right? When Studdard performs the best out of all 4 of them, you know the interior of the Oline's going to suck.

I think everyone knows my stance on Myers by now so I'll leave it at that. But let's look at the RG position. Kubiak began rotating White and Caldwell in order to get one of them to take the position by the huevos...they didn't!

IMO, if Wade Smith is anything the coaches say he is then he'll be an instant upgrade at either of the 3 positions. Okay, 1 of the 3 is now upgraded (supposedely), now what? Is Caldwell finally going to TAKE a job from the others? Is Myers going to suddenly get better after 3 seasons? Pffft! White? Pffft! All right Shelley, you're up!

See my point? The interior is still a major concern. Y'all are discussing their pass blocking for Schaub? Pffft! Their run blocking is even worse.

I think it's easier to find guards with a gut , big butt , short waisted ( stumpy legs ) and a decent athlete who's strong and can get low , than it is to find a smaller guy who's strong enough to hold up but quick enough to get to the second layer . To add to the equation , the guys got to be willing to cut block . I read somewhere that that was Pitt's downfall .

Tangent alert ... remember Fat Albert calling the Texans dirty when Gibb's got here , before the Texans even practiced . They were in folks head and pissed it away by not cracking someone . Take the 15 yds and get in their heads .

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

they say they are building through the draft and too cheap to sign decent FAs this year, but then in teh draft they neglect critical areas of need.

Cornerback - Need Area 1a

Runningback - Need Area 1b

Defensive Tackle - Need Area 3-5

 

[HOU-TEX]

Caldwell is likely to be much better this year. I thought he looked pretty good by midway through last season. Also, Briesel will be back from IR. So, yeah, there is reason to be optimistic about improvements on the interior oline. You are right about the run blocking! It was awful last season. I thought Studdard and White were both really bad. I don't think White makes the team and I don't think Studdard will be starting. While I wasn't impressed with Myers last year either, I'm somewhat comforted to recall his performance in '08, when he had better guards surrounding him.

We would think Caldwell would improve, but we don't know. Brisiel is coming back, but will he rebound and play like the end of 08? He wasn't really performing all that well either before he went down.

As much as you dislike Studdard, I thought he played better than the other 3 (not saying much). I think Pitts was missed more than we think. I've been wanting him back, but I'm beginning to lose confidence in that happening.

In the end, the interior will still have the most unanswered questions than any other position. IMO

 

[thunderkyss]

are people actually trying to pretend that Myers is decent? really?

Myers is garbage. utter garbage.

Whelp... there you go. Case closed.

 

[thunderkyss]

Chris Myers is "utter garbage" because he has a weakness in his game? LOL!

To be fair, he has other weaknesses... he isn't very strong, he won't get a push up the middle... which makes you wonder why we try. He also has a tendency to vacate the middle, when helping Studdard. I never seen him doing it when helping on the right. But I never seen the guy on the right totally abandon Myers for absolutely no reason either.

But when he goes to assist Studdard, he takes his eyes off the middle of the field, and allows a delayed blitzer unimpeded access to our QB.

But yeah, I think "utter garbage" is a little strong. If only we paid a lot of money for him on the Free Agent market....

 

[thunderkyss]

Nope ... I think Myers is average at best . I think the guy with best chance of beating him out is already on the roster and not a rookie 3rd round pick .

Completely agree. I don't think Myers will be starting in 2010, at any position.

 

[dalemurphy]

We would think Caldwell would improve, but we don't know. Brisiel is coming back, but will he rebound and play like the end of 08? He wasn't really performing all that well either before he went down.

As much as you dislike Studdard, I thought he played better than the other 3 (not saying much). I think Pitts was missed more than we think. I've been wanting him back, but I'm beginning to lose confidence in that happening.

In the end, the interior will still have the most unanswered questions than any other position. IMO

I pretty much agree with you. But, not about Studdard. He was better than I anticipated but that's like saying the pile of dog crap I ate didn't taste quite as bad as I thought it was going to.


I have concerns with the secondary and interior Oline. I'm just arguing that the Texans have attempted to address the oline. And, working with just a little bit of faith, there are plenty of reasons for optimism. We have 7 guys that are all well under 30 years old fighting for 5-6 roster spots and 3 starting spots. We added two new players into the mix: one of them is a very athletic veteran and another is a strong and athletic rookie (with 3+ years starting experience).

 

[thunderkyss]

Their run blocking is even worse.

I don't agree with that. Definitely poor at the beginning of the season. But from the Buffalo game on, my opinion, is that the RBs left a lot of yards on the field. Arian Foster, who is average at best IMHO was proof of that, I think.

 

[badboy]

To me , it's like furnishing your house . Are you gonna buy a coffee table first or a bed ? You look for a nice table on sale but your not going to pay a lot , you look for a sale . Do you look for a cheap bed , hell no , you want a bed that's comfortable .

The four things I think you have to have as a SB contending team .

1. QB ... bed
2. LT ... fridge
3. shutdown CB ... TV
4. pass rushing demon ... oven

Using your analogy, we already had the bed (Schaub) and fridge (Brown) and we drafted our CB #20. Our Ferrari came in 2nd round and your oven in 3rd. Why not add a home owner's insurance policy(FS Ansah in 4th) to protect your stuff?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Using your analogy, we already had the bed (Schaub) and fridge (Brown) and we drafted our CB #20. Our Ferrari came in 2nd round and your oven in 3rd. Why not add a home owner's insurance policy(FS Ansah in 4th) to protect your stuff?

They insured other positions .

 

[badboy]

I'm fine with Kareem Jackson. Imho the Texans could have addressed cb later because it was a really deep class this year. I would have taken Dan Williams at 20. Ben Tate in the 2nd. Trade up with Baltimore to get Morgan Burnett by giving them our 2nd 4th rounder. The points are right and Baltimore would probably still get their TE and pick up an extra 4th. I think Ozzie would have done it. Then in the 4th take Akwasi Owusu-Ansah. 5th I get Mitch Petrus. 6th Dorin Dickerson and the 7th Donovan Warren.

1-Dan Williams DT
2-Ben Tate RB
3-Morgan Burnett FS
4-Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB
5-Mitch Petrus OG
6-Dorin Dickerson TE/WR
7-Donovan Warren CB

Sign as many tight ends as you want that went undrafted.

and that would have been a draft I would be doing flips over!

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Using your analogy, we already had the bed (Schaub) and fridge (Brown) and we drafted our CB #20. Our Ferrari came in 2nd round and your oven in 3rd. Why not add a home owner's insurance policy(FS Ansah in 4th) to protect your stuff?

Because the theory is we got a good surveillance camera in the 4th (in case our alarm system goes down) that has a higher Consumer Report rating than the potential upgrade in insurance policy.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Because the theory is we got a good surveillance camera in the 4th (in case our alarm system goes down) that has a higher Consumer Report rating than the potential upgrade in insurance policy.

I'll go out on a limb and say McManis ends up better than Ansah . Why ... cause an All Big 10 player who couldn't workout for scouts therefore dropped is a better prospect than a workout guy from Indiana in Pn.

I think McManis hits at least a 4.5 40 at the combine and has played in a good conference against good schools . Plus you don't just get into Northwestern , he's smart .

 

[badboy]

I don't think so. Barber (I'm not super high on Barber, but I do like the kid) made a few mistakes.... one really big one in particular. But so did a lot of other players on our team, during those first three games.

Cushing, Demeco, Bullman, Smith... all of them missed tackles that led to huge runs. I think they were working out the kinks of our new Defensive aggression. Plus Cushing had missed quite a bit in the pre-season.

With Pollard coming, we also went to a traditional SS/FS split, which I think will help Barber.

When Barber got back in the game for Wilson later in the season, he played well. I am more concerened if Pollard misses a game or two, but I think Barber would do fine there as well, with everyone in front of him playing better than they did weeks 1,2, & 3.

Good post! I too am hopeful Barber has a good season & what you say is correct.

 

[b0ng]

So when we drafted McCain, Nolan, Harrison and Barber were we addressing the FS position then? It's like some of you people are about 2 years behind the curve here. I think the problem is that once we filled needs that the FO deemed more valuable than the FS position, we were out of draft picks in the higher rounds. Obviously most of the angry and upset people here don't count spending a 5th or a 6th on a FS as "addressing the position" so basically Smithiak had about 4 draft picks to fill the needs of the team. He picked up a CB, RB, DT, LB and a TE. If they were to trade some of their picks to get a safety in the 3rd I would've been pissed, because I don't think any of the dudes in the 3rd are worth giving up picks to get. They could have drafted Darrell Stuckey in the 4th, but at that point the powers that be decided special teams and offense could use a pick-me up (Especially since they had picked 1 offensive player out of 4 picks already).

I mean this draft was done so that Bush can get new toys to play with (A high value CB, a low value CB, a penetrating DT and a backup LB), and I have to think that he is happy with how the draft turned out. It's his system, and you can tell they put more of a premium on CB play and the front 7 than they do with safety play. If Jackson (Or, heh, McMannis) pans out then we're sitting pretty on all 3 levels of our defense.

With all of that said, who thought last year could be blamed mostly on poor safety play? Poor CB play? My thoughts go to the latter, especially with how badly Robinson would get burned or penalized. So they upgraded the CB position rather than FS and people want to gripe and talk about how we are destined for .500 or Schaub is going to get injured (What the **** that's even doing in this thread is beyond me), or we need a rapist on the team, or win at all costs or whatever. Nobody knows for sure how it's going to go, but I can at least say they made some very good attempts to tighten up the D with new talent. Now what was the gigantic albatross last year that kept us from winning games? Oh yeah, our offense having to score 35+ points to win a game. Nope, not the running game, nope not the O-line play, not even the ability to sack the opposing QB. It all came down to the fact that our secondary couldn't keep any QB not named Russell from tossing the pigskin into the endzone. So they upgraded the secondary through 2 CB picks and people here are mad about it.

Right.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

My main complaint is that it seems they do not consider C and FS an area of need and that we are in Year 9 of the Texans and neither position has ever been addressed. Their inactivity in FA forced their hand. Why forego an opportunity to fill a hole pre-draft?

Take a chance. Spend some money. Address a need.

This was the year to take a chance with their being no cap.
We should be improving not standing pat and relying on the crapshoot that is the NFL draft. I have faith that Jackson and Tate are going to help but we had 5 or more positions that need a new starter.

We hopefully addressed 2 this season but that leaves 3

 

[dalemurphy]

My main complaint is that it seems they do not consider C and FS an area of need and that we are in Year 9 of the Texans and neither position has ever been addressed. Their inactivity in FA forced their hand. Why forego an opportunity to fill a hole pre-draft?

Take a chance. Spend some money. Address a need.

This was the year to take a chance with their being no cap.
We should be improving not standing pat and relying on the crapshoot that is the NFL draft. I have faith that Jackson and Tate are going to help but we had 5 or more positions that need a new starter.

We hopefully addressed 2 this season but that leaves 3

SH, Name the Free Agent Center that you would've spent money on this off-season? They got the best one available: Wade Smith.


that being said, I certainly shared your concern with their lack of agressiveness last off-season. I thought they had plenty opportunity, particularly at FS, to help the team and they did nothing. Thankfully, Pollard dropped in their laps. This off-season was different. There simply wasn't much available due to the 2010 rule changes with the elimination of the cap.

 

[beerlover]

SH, Name the Free Agent Center that you would've spent money on this off-season? They got the best one available: Wade Smith.


that being said, I certainly shared your concern with their lack of agressiveness last off-season. I thought they had plenty opportunity, particularly at FS, to help the team and they did nothing. Thankfully, Pollard dropped in their laps. This off-season was different. There simply wasn't much available due to the 2010 rule changes with the elimination of the cap.

who's to say they're finished? look when the added Pollard. if the opportunity presents itself Rick Smith will make the move. Patience is a virtue

 

[thunderkyss]

who's to say they're finished? look when the added Pollard. if the opportunity presents itself Rick Smith will make the move. Patience is a virtue

I think I'll start calling Rick Smith Poker Face.

 

[badboy]

Because the theory is we got a good surveillance camera in the 4th (in case our alarm system goes down) that has a higher Consumer Report rating than the potential upgrade in insurance policy.

Looks like we will be adding two cameras every year.

 

[badboy]

I'll go out on a limb and say McManis ends up better than Ansah . Why ... cause an All Big 10 player who couldn't workout for scouts therefore dropped is a better prospect than a workout guy from Indiana in Pn.

I think McManis hits at least a 4.5 40 at the combine and has played in a good conference against good schools . Plus you don't just get into Northwestern , he's smart .

Since he is now a Texan I am hoping you are 100% correct. In fact I hope you are underestimating McManus.

 

[welsh texan]

Can't help but look at this thread and wonder if some of you people on here thrive on hating what this team does.

If you break down what we have at Free Safety, Wilson is a reasonable starter with questionable injury history and we have 2 or 3 guys who are developmental players or possible position changes from corner.

Do you really invest money and picks into that situation when it will only cause previous picks and investment to be de-valued?

I'm sure nobody is going to stick their head above the parapet and say they'd prefer to see Reeves Quin and Bennett at CB with a first round rookie over the top of them? Dunta may not have been what he was before the injury last season but I can't believe for a minute that he wouldn't have been a big loss to the team had they not taken THEIR guy to replace him.

Again on the issue of Centre that is rumbling throughout this thread, do people really think that between previous year 3rd round pick Caldwell and FA signing Wade Smith the FO probably have all the ammo they want to push Meyers all the way? Not to mention the 2 guard positions that will be upgraded compared to last season either way.

So which of our top 3 picks would you sacrifice to provide a starting FS or a starting C? Because I think CB, RB and DT were far greater needs for immediate impact than the already somewhat addressed positions of Free Safety and Centre.

 

[badboy]

who's to say they're finished? look when the added Pollard. if the opportunity presents itself Rick Smith will make the move. Patience is a virtue

Guns and Roses sang about having a little more patience. Anyone seen Axl Rose lately?

 

[badboy]

Can't help but look at this thread and wonder if some of you people on here thrive on hating what this team does.

If you break down what we have at Free Safety, Wilson is a reasonable starter with questionable injury history and we have 2 or 3 guys who are developmental players or possible position changes from corner.

Do you really invest money and picks into that situation when it will only cause previous picks and investment to be de-valued?

I'm sure nobody is going to stick their head above the parapet and say they'd prefer to see Reeves Quin and Bennett at CB with a first round rookie over the top of them? Dunta may not have been what he was before the injury last season but I can't believe for a minute that he wouldn't have been a big loss to the team had they not taken THEIR guy to replace him.

Again on the issue of Centre that is rumbling throughout this thread, do people really think that between previous year 3rd round pick Caldwell and FA signing Wade Smith the FO probably have all the ammo they want to push Meyers all the way? Not to mention the 2 guard positions that will be upgraded compared to last season either way.

So which of our top 3 picks would you sacrifice to provide a starting FS or a starting C? Because I think CB, RB and DT were far greater needs for immediate impact than the already somewhat addressed positions of Free Safety and Centre.

I would have loved to see a Reeves, Quin combo with Earl Thomas, Nate Allen or maybe one or two others as the Rookie FS.

 

[welsh texan]

I would have loved to see a Reeves, Quin combo with Earl Thomas, Nate Allen or maybe one or two others as the Rookie FS.

You'd have been calling Bob a cheapskate for not re-signing D-Rob by mid September IMHO.

CB is the more immediate need, it may be a little risque to say this around here but FS can wait till next year, Eugene is perfectly serviceable there for the time being and if he does go down it gives playing time to those who we've already spent the time to develop.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

You'd have been calling Bob a cheapskate for not re-signing D-Rob by mid September IMHO.

CB is the more immediate need, it may be a little risque to say this around here but FS can wait till next year, Eugene is perfectly serviceable there for the time being and if he does go down it gives playing time to those who we've already spent the time to develop.

There's a reason a CB gets paid more than FS .

 

[Goldensilence]

You'd have been calling Bob a cheapskate for not re-signing D-Rob by mid September IMHO.

CB is the more immediate need, it may be a little risque to say this around here but FS can wait till next year, Eugene is perfectly serviceable there for the time being and if he does go down it gives playing time to those who we've already spent the time to develop.

First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

 

[beerlover]

It is pretty darn hard to address every need in one offseason. everybody has their own agenda

 

[dalemurphy]

First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

I agree. That is a concern. However, show me a team that has quality depth at every position and I'll show you a championship team from the pre-salary cap era. The reality is that, even the best teams, are lacking in a few areas. However, what does concern me, is they don't seem to understand it is an area of need. Last season, for instance, they were totally content to enter the season with Nick Ferguson or Dom. Barber lined up next to Wilson and to have no proven backup behind him. They could've signed someone like Sean Jones for $2million, simply for some veteran depth, but didn't even effort to do so.

 

[JB]

I agree. That is a concern. However, show me a team that has quality depth at every position and I'll show you a championship team from the pre-salary cap era. The reality is that, even the best teams, are lacking in a few areas. However, what does concern me, is they don't seem to understand it is an area of need. Last season, for instance, they were totally content to enter the season with Nick Ferguson or Dom. Barber lined up next to Wilson and to have no proven backup behind him. They could've signed someone like Sean Jones for $2million, simply for some veteran depth, but didn't even effort to do so.

But we don't really know that do we? This FO does not talk about moves they are contemplating or about moves that did not work out. They may have tried to bring Jones in here, but lost out. We only hear about a small fraction of what they are doing, and even less about what they are thinking.

 

[thunderkyss]

First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

How would that have been different with a 3rd round pick? I don't believe our chances would be any better, and possibly worse.

 

[HOU-TEX]

First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

Wilson, Pollard, Nolan and Barber are the only safety's on the roster at this time. I reckon we'll pick someone up or one of our CB's will eventually be moved to S.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Wait a minute... so if our starting FS and our starting SS both go out due to injury, we would have a hole at the position? Say it ain't so...

 

[b0ng]

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

You know what else would suck, if 'Dre and Daniels go down. Or if Mario and Smith go down. Or if Demeco and Cushing go down.

Losing 2 starters in almost the exact same spot on the field would be devastating to almost any team in this league. They have a starter, they have what they believe to be solid depth so why use even more picks when they've used a pick on a safety each year since 2007?

(yes I wanted Earl Thomas)

 

[steelbtexan]

Everybody sees problems with the organization. You're not alone. We can't all be right. Personally, I just don't like your "stats don't mean anything" or whatever. They don't mean what you think we are saying it means. We don't think they mean anything other than what they mean.

I'm not questioning your "fan-hood" I tried to not give off that impression.

Great, let's go find a thread where we can go talk about how our team has improved. Then you'll be like the rest of us, sharing in the good and the bad.

True. Offensively, I think we were as good as any of them... moving the ball, scoring... we're right there. Need to get better at running the ball. Defensively, I think we're as good as any of them.

We had some maturity issues, some coaching issues, a lot of choking issues...
But I think the growth we've seen, maturity wise, through-out the season (on the field, and on the side lines) will be the x factor that will finally put us on even footing with the best in the NFL.

& that's what I'm asking about. If your outlook is so low, what are you going to be watching? Are you going to be hoping they prove you wrong, and send Chris Myers to the Pro-Bowl? Are you going to be watching, hoping to be proven right, and Myers get Schaub killed? Are you going to notice Winston give up more sacks than Myers, which he has the last two years?

Technically, we were winners last year. I like that Kubiak isn't so conservative that he won't start a rookie... Wali Lundy, Glover Quinn, to name a couple. I hope we can see more 2 minute offense... but if they keep screwing it up, I hope Kubiak pulls them back before we get into "missing the play-offs again" jeopordy. I have no problem not wanting to pay Haynesworth $100 mil. I have no problem passing on Cedric Benson (at least they've done their due dillegence, brought him in, and looked at him twice..) I don't understand not bringning Larry Johnson in, even if we had to sign him to a crazy 1 year deal.


So what are you expecting to see in 2010? Good football? A joke? Is it going to be close?

We agree on alot things.

I would never wish any of the Texans injury.

I'm expecting 7-9,9-7 with a healthy team. 10-6 would be great but I dont see it happening. I'm glad to see that you seem to look at things realisticly when it comes to the Texans conservative nature.

 

[steelbtexan]

SH, Name the Free Agent Center that you would've spent money on this off-season? They got the best one available: Wade Smith.


that being said, I certainly shared your concern with their lack of agressiveness last off-season. I thought they had plenty opportunity, particularly at FS, to help the team and they did nothing. Thankfully, Pollard dropped in their laps. This off-season was different. There simply wasn't much available due to the 2010 rule changes with the elimination of the cap.

True

 

[Goldensilence]

I agree. That is a concern. However, show me a team that has quality depth at every position and I'll show you a championship team from the pre-salary cap era. The reality is that, even the best teams, are lacking in a few areas. However, what does concern me, is they don't seem to understand it is an area of need. Last season, for instance, they were totally content to enter the season with Nick Ferguson or Dom. Barber lined up next to Wilson and to have no proven backup behind him. They could've signed someone like Sean Jones for $2million, simply for some veteran depth, but didn't even effort to do so.

Good post Dale. I'm not arguing the first point, I know teams will have holes at positions on the field. But like yourself my position is they haven't seemed to figure out it is a position of need.

How would that have been different with a 3rd round pick? I don't believe our chances would be any better, and possibly worse.

Look I'm no NFL coach or scout by any means. But, generally I would assume the higher a guy is picked in the draft is better. It comes down to would you rather have a guy drafted in the third round or in the 6th?

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

Wilson, Pollard, Nolan and Barber are the only safety's on the roster at this time. I reckon we'll pick someone up or one of our CB's will eventually be moved to S.

Yeah. I forsee one of the CBs on the bubble of making the roster being asked to try and move to FS. Molden comes to mind as having the physical tools to try to do so.

You know what else would suck, if 'Dre and Daniels go down. Or if Mario and Smith go down. Or if Demeco and Cushing go down.

Losing 2 starters in almost the exact same spot on the field would be devastating to almost any team in this league. They have a starter, they have what they believe to be solid depth so why use even more picks when they've used a pick on a safety each year since 2007?

(yes I wanted Earl Thomas)

Yeah last year they finally found a legit starter at SS. Wilson hasn't been able to stay healthy for a full year for going on like 4. That's why the Patriots released him and we were able to take him off the "scrap heap".

My problem is yeah they've used a pick each year, but realistically those were late round flyers. Perhaps I'm just the only who hopes at some point they will put some sort of premium on safety play.

 

[steelbtexan]

How would that have been different with a 3rd round pick? I don't believe our chances would be any better, and possibly worse.

This is where we disagree.

Would you have been willing to give up Sharpton and Graham to move up in the 3rd rd and draft Wright or Burnett at S or Walton at C? I would have. They are going to be starters this year.

In fact Hoke was talking about what a steal Wright was.

This draft was so deep that starters could be found in the 3rd rd. In addition I would've traded a 2011 2nd for a 2011 3rd. Then drafted Walton.

This is the forward thinking thing that I'm talking about. Instead we get the same old lets draft 2 starters and let 1 starter walk in FA conservative way of thinking. That way of thinking is why the Texans are still rebuilding after 4 yrs of Smithiak.

My draft would've looked like this

Rd1 Jackson
Rd2 Tate
Rd3 Burnett or Wright
Rd3 Mitchell
Rd3 Walton
Rd5 NcMannis
Rd6 Holliday
Rd6 Smith
Rd7 Dickerson

Which looks alot better than the 2 starters that the Texans drafted. The cost of doing this draft would've been Sharpton,Graham and a 2011 2nd rd pick. The cost is well worth filling the holes on the team next year.IMHO

But it takes a forward thinking organization and the Texans have never been accused of that.

 

[dalemurphy]

This is where we disagree.

Would you have been willing to give up Sharpton and Graham to move up in the 3rd rd and draft Wright or Burnett at S or Walton at C? I would have. They are going to be starters this year.

In fact Hoke was talking about what a steal Wright was.

This draft was so deep that starters could be found in the 3rd rd. In addition I would've traded a 2011 2nd for a 2011 3rd. Then drafted Walton.

This is the forward thinking thing that I'm talking about. Instead we get the same old lets draft 2 starters and let 1 starter walk in FA conservative way of thinking. That way of thinking is why the Texans are still rebuilding after 4 yrs of Smithiak.

My draft would've looked like this

Rd1 Jackson
Rd2 Tate
Rd3 Burnett or Wright
Rd3 Mitchell
Rd3 Walton
Rd5 NcMannis
Rd6 Holliday
Rd6 Smith
Rd7 Dickerson

Which looks alot better than the 2 starters that the Texans drafted. The cost of doing this draft would've been Sharpton,Graham and a 2011 2nd rd pick. The cost is well worth filling the holes on the team next year.IMHO

But it takes a forward thinking organization and the Texans have never been accused of that.

I think they simply didn't see a safety they liked for that value. Perhaps they are wrong and it may cost them. However, I don't want them reaching for players they don't believe in. I think they are drafting well and I definitely want the philosophy and methods behind those drafts to continue.

Regarding the safety position this year: I'm not disillusioned with their handling of it like I was last year. Last year we didn't have Pollard and Barber hadn't played (I thought he was solid late in the year). I was more upset they didn't get veteran help than I was about what happened in the draft. I don't want to see a team content with Nick Ferguson being on the 53 man roster. This year he won't be. I think we are three deep with competant safeties and we have a 4th (Nolan) with some potential. It's hard to complain about two 4th round picks that haven't even been to mini-camp yet... It's possible Sharpton and Graham become all-pros while this draft ends up producing very little talent at safety. So, I can't start complaining about the picks yet.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

We could have drafted a FS at several points in the draft. And we chose not to.

There are a few reasons why that might be. And it's not because the coaches don't value the position or because they're getting kickbacks from other teams.

A big reason is probably because they studied the tape on these guys and didn't like what they saw. Just because these guys were rated high on a bunch of draft boards doesn't mean they were rated high on the Texan's board. It's up to the coaches and the scouts to look at these guys and figure out who fits in our system and who doesn't and who's better than what we've got and who's not and who's going to improve our team the most.

Most of these guys that we argue over and hype and say should go in this round or that round end up being crap players. And we're sitting here talking about these guys like we KNOW they're going to end up being studs when we really don't know that.

And the same thing applies to the interior of the line. We drafted a G/C last year in the 3rd round. A guy that a lot of us were excited to get. And that guy had problems working his way into the lineup. Most of the guys we were excited about as Gs and Cs in the mid to late rounds probably wouldn't have made an immediate impact in our line anyway. Shelley Smith probably was one of the higher rated interior linemen on the Texans board and they knew they could get him in the later rounds because most teams (except maybe the Skins and Seahawks) weren't going to know about him or go after him.

So, personally, I think we hit our biggest needs. And we may have hit some of our moderate needs including the interior line, but we may not see the benefit of that until later down the line.

 

[thunderkyss]

Look I'm no NFL coach or scout by any means. But, generally I would assume the higher a guy is picked in the draft is better. It comes down to would you rather have a guy drafted in the third round or in the 6th?

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

If we were talking about two guys drafted in the same year, I would agree. But when we're talking about across several years, especially a late (second day) pick... I don't think it is as cut and dry.


Let's say I'm Gibbs
I've got a guy I've been working with for a year in Barber. He's played in the NFL, he's started for my team, he's done some good things... with Barber, we can pick up where we left off, and move on to Lesson 2, instead of having to start over with lesson 1 with the rooks.

I've also got Troy Nolan, we felt he fell in the draft because of an injury, he didn't get a fair shot last year, because of an injury. But before the injury, we were pretty excited about what the kid can do. I like him, I'm not ready to give up on him, I'm ready to move forward with Troy Nolan. Maybe I've gotten to know him as he's gone through his rehab. Maybe I feel like he understands the game, and can give me exactly what I want.

But, I'm not going to put all my back-up eggs in these two players. I've also got 2 UDFA in a "deep" FS draft. They fit our mold, they've got the physicals we want, their smart maybe we'll find something in one of them.

So for back-ups.. I've got 4 options in the event something were to hapen to both of my starters.

 

[steelbtexan]

We could have drafted a FS at several points in the draft. And we chose not to.

There are a few reasons why that might be. And it's not because the coaches don't value the position or because they're getting kickbacks from other teams.

A big reason is probably because they studied the tape on these guys and didn't like what they saw. Just because these guys were rated high on a bunch of draft boards doesn't mean they were rated high on the Texan's board. It's up to the coaches and the scouts to look at these guys and figure out who fits in our system and who doesn't and who's better than what we've got and who's not and who's going to improve our team the most.

Most of these guys that we argue over and hype and say should go in this round or that round end up being crap players. And we're sitting here talking about these guys like we KNOW they're going to end up being studs when we really don't know that.

And the same thing applies to the interior of the line. We drafted a G/C last year in the 3rd round. A guy that a lot of us were excited to get. And that guy had problems working his way into the lineup. Most of the guys we were excited about as Gs and Cs in the mid to late rounds probably wouldn't have made an immediate impact in our line anyway. Shelley Smith probably was one of the higher rated interior linemen on the Texans board and they knew they could get him in the later rounds because most teams (except maybe the Skins and Seahawks) weren't going to know about him or go after him.

So, personally, I think we hit our biggest needs. And we may have hit some of our moderate needs including the interior line, but we may not see the benefit of that until later down the line.

The biggest reason they didn't trade up and draft a FS is Smithiak dont place the value on the S position that we on the MB do.

Smithiak should be able to pick 3 starters out of each draft. If they cant they are falling behind the rest of the NFL.

That's why I think trading up and getting a no.1 and two no.2's each draft. That way you are almost assured of getting 3 impact players from each draft.

That's just my philosopy on the draft.

 

[dalemurphy]

The biggest reason they didn't trade up and draft a FS is Smithiak dont place the value on the S position that we on the MB do.

Smithiak should be able to pick 3 starters out of each draft. If they cant they are falling behind the rest of the NFL.

That's why I think trading up and getting a no.1 and two no.2's each draft. That way you are almost assured of getting 3 impact players from each draft.

That's just my philosopy on the draft.

2006 (also, KWalter trade)
1. Mario
2. Demeco
3. Winston
4. OD

2007 (also,1/2 Matt Schaub trade)
1. Okoye (like it or not, he's starting)
2. JJ (probably) or Bennett in '07 or Studdard in '09
3. Zac Diles

2008 (also, 1/2 Matt Schaub trade... also, Chris Myers trade)
1. Duane Brown
2. Steve Slaton

2009
1. Cushing
2. Caldwell
3. Quin

I don't neccessarily agree with your philosophy on how to judge a draft. But, Smithiak has been pretty successful using your measurement. It's also worth noting what the Texans have done on the final day of drafting. It seems those picks are more value than you think (at least to the Texans)

Acquired with 4th-7th rounds
2006: OD, D.Anderson, KWalter
2007: Studdard, ZDiles
2008: D.Barber, C.Myers
2009: Quin, McCain, J.Casey

now, I don't think all of that list is "A" talent. But, getting guys like OD, Quin, and ZDiles late in the draft are good reasons not to be so eager to trade those picks in order to move up into the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

The biggest reason they didn't trade up and draft a FS is Smithiak dont place the value on the S position that we on the MB do.

Smithiak should be able to pick 3 starters out of each draft. If they cant they are falling behind the rest of the NFL.

That's why I think trading up and getting a no.1 and two no.2's each draft. That way you are almost assured of getting 3 impact players from each draft.

That's just my philosopy on the draft.

I think that depends on how good your team is .

I posted earlier somewhere that if you look at need vs bpa , the best teams pick bpa . The Cowboys took Dez when everyone thought they'd take an OT .

 

[ChampionTexan]

I think that depends on how good your team is .

I posted earlier somewhere that if you look at need vs bpa , the best teams pick bpa . The Cowboys took Dez when everyone thought they'd take an OT .

Exactly right - not only the BPA thing, but if you're the 3rd or 4th round pick of the Rams or Chiefs, there's a heck of a lot better chance you're going to be able to nail down a starting role than if you go in the same round to the Vikings, Saints, Colts, etc...

 

[badboy]

First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

exactly!