Should Bob listen to this?

[playa465]

Not to beat the dead horse but SH, what makes you think it wasn't Smith's or Kubiak's decision not to bring Dunta back. I think your focus it at the wrong person(s). I understand what you are saying (pay Dunta $12M or whatever for 1 yr in an uncapped season or spend on someone else). But what kind of message does that give other players who are performing better, especially when the cap comes back. Also, as far as free agency I don't think may players want a 1yr deal even if it is large. Most of them want something long term so they can have financial security at the same or higher level of income that they enjoy now. So it isn't as simple as taking Dunta's old salary and handing it to someone else.

 

[Texanmike02]

A non playmaking Daunta ~ every other CB on our team. Is Jaque Reeves that much worse than Daunta? If he's not making tackles up field he's just not that special.

IMHO of course.

Mike

 

[Texanmike02]

I don't care about 2011. If McNair dishes out the cash for David Freaking Carr or Dunta Fracking Robinson, why-oh-why would you not do a new deal for a guy who made your defense BETTER?!?! And consistently better, I might add. You know which defensive player actually made the defense consistently better, and which one made what I can only describe as a "marginal" improvement to the defense. It's simple.

OK and so maybe he's learned not to jump out? And you don't care about 2021 ok fine.. wait you said 2011.. um.. I do... I don't want a deal that @$^#s us up in 1 year. Yeah.. gather as much information as you can.. and then make the call.

Mike

 

[GP]

OK and so maybe he's learned not to jump out? And you don't care about 2021 ok fine.. wait you said 2011.. um.. I do... I don't want a deal that @$^#s us up in 1 year. Yeah.. gather as much information as you can.. and then make the call.

Mike

I don't think signing one of the two best defensive players (And they both reside at the position of LB) is going to turn us upside down with the cap.

Did Ryans and Daniels decline the offers made? Yes. What if the terms were absurd, and it meant that they would have a hard time earning all of the contract? What if it was declined over the amount of the bonus?

In a sense, we don't know what the terms are.

But in another sense, we see that Dunta robinson was paid almost $10 million for one season. After he blew his leg muscle off the bone the previous season, AND was griping about being disrespected. In my book, that means Smith and McNair were not on the same page and Bob won THAT battle.

If we can't reward a guy like DeMeco Ryans, I might have to look for another team. I was wondering how he would perform in 2009, when he HAD to show if his heart was still here or if he was going to pout and loaf all season. well, he put up his end of the deal. He should have been our first off-season move, even though he technically didn't need to be re-structured this off-season.

It sends a message that QUALITY is rewarded. Not the subjective bullsnark that is David Carr and Dunta Robinson. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but to some people...it's not a duck.

Go figure.

 

[GP]

By the way, we can't count (without a huge abacus) how many times people have expressed such GLEE over how much cap space we're going to clear at x-point in time and how we're going to spend it in y-amount of time on z-player(s).

The Colts and Peyton Manning re-structured Manning's deal so that they could afford a player that they felt would make them better. IIRC, it made the Colts only about $100,000-or-so under the cap.

I really am a bit skeptical about the claims that Uncle Bob is hands-off on stuff. I think he pinches a buffalo nickel until it farts, and I think Kubiak and Smith are about the same type of person when it all gets boiled down. I think it's a trio of guys who essentially have about the same philosophy: We're smarter than everyone else, and so whatever we do--even if it's unconventional or cheap or whatever--is going to be better, solely because we know what we're doing. We're going to make it OUR way, as the song goes...

Maybe it's why they don't leak information and they have a weird relationship with the media. They don't like to be questioned. They don't want to be scrutinized. So the less information that's out there, the less Bob's "brand" is potentially attacked and devalued. They also use this tactic so that the media lobs meat pitches to them: Keeps the media playing "nice" because you obviously don't want to be shut out any more than you already are.

Man, I get depressed just thinking about all this. I really think this whole house of cards is going to come tumbling down next season. I don't think they can keep up this way of doing things, with the players they have. Just my thoughts on it. I don't have a good hunch.

 

[El Tejano]

Man, this place is going to explode when we don't select even the prospects everyone thinks we are going to select in the draft.

What's worse is, we will one day see AJ playing for another team if this keeps up.

 

[Blake]

Man, this place is going to explode when we don't select even the prospects everyone thinks we are going to select in the draft.

What's worse is, we will one day see AJ playing for another team if this keeps up.

Or even worse, winning a ring with another franchise.

 

[playa465]

Man, this place is going to explode when we don't select even the prospects everyone thinks we are going to select in the draft.

LOL, I hear ya

What's worse is, we will one day see AJ playing for another team if this keeps up.

Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Joe Montana, Brett Favre etc...left the team they were successful with...if AJ ever leaves we will cry and move on.

 

[redwhiteANDblue]

I predict Reeves will be the leagues top shutdown corner.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I think it's a trio of guys who essentially have about the same philosophy: We're smarter than everyone else, and so whatever we do--even if it's unconventional or cheap or whatever--is going to be better, solely because we know what we're doing. We're going to make it OUR way, as the song goes...

Maybe it's why they don't leak information and they have a weird relationship with the media. They don't like to be questioned. They don't want to be scrutinized. So the less information that's out there, the less Bob's "brand" is potentially attacked and devalued. They also use this tactic so that the media lobs meat pitches to them: Keeps the media playing "nice" because you obviously don't want to be shut out any more than you already are.

You have basically just described 32 teams.

But, let me get this straight, you think that a football team's management should have a free and easy and honest relationship with the media. You think that a football team's management should talk to the media and tell them the truth about what they're thinking and what they're planning. And you think the Texans shutting the media out to keep people from saying "bad" things about the team?

That just makes no sense to me.

No coach or GM or owner should give the media "real" information because if they do that on more than a rare basis, then other teams will be able to get that information and use it in their planning and strategy.

As a fan, even though I want to know every thought about the team going through their heads, I should never really know the plans of the team beyond what I can discern and deduce from what I see on the field. I shouldn't know what they think are the strengths and weaknesses of the team and what they're going to draft for or who they're going after in FA or what they're offering this player or that player.

 

[Texans_Chick]

But in another sense, we see that Dunta robinson was paid almost $10 million for one season. After he blew his leg muscle off the bone the previous season, AND was griping about being disrespected. In my book, that means Smith and McNair were not on the same page and Bob won THAT battle.

I am not understanding your logic at all.

They kept Dunta last year because he was going to leave with no compensation and they didn't have a replacement for him. They drafted a replacement, and his franchise number was going to be even higher and crazier if they couldn't agree to a long term deal. They bought themselves the opportunity of 1 year to see if they wanted to pay Dunta long term money to stay. Their answer was no.

I don't see how that suggests that Smith/McNair are not on the same page.

They have acknowledged that they want to work out deals with OD/Ryans. But it takes two to tango.

I do not think that the Texans relationship with the media is particularly unusual other then their media relations people are extra nice. The Texans talk more than a lot of organizations do, but just don't care to air their dirty laundry and I don't blame them.

 

[GP]

I am not understanding your logic at all.

They kept Dunta last year because he was going to leave with no compensation and they didn't have a replacement for him. They drafted a replacement, and his franchise number was going to be even higher and crazier if they couldn't agree to a long term deal. They bought themselves the opportunity of 1 year to see if they wanted to pay Dunta long term money to stay. Their answer was no.

I don't see how that suggests that Smith/McNair are not on the same page.

They have acknowledged that they want to work out deals with OD/Ryans. But it takes two to tango.

I do not think that the Texans relationship with the media is particularly unusual other then their media relations people are extra nice. The Texans talk more than a lot of organizations do, but just don't care to air their dirty laundry and I don't blame them.

$10 million for one year. That's absurd money, for o-n-e year. And, it was coming off (a) an injury and (b) him holding out for camp and preseason games. I'm failing to see how a player can get rewarded with that much cash for one year. It really confuses me.

Hence the "subjective reward system" theory.

We seem to do fine with trotting out some scraps at RB, would it have hurt it any worse to not have $10 million Dunta Robinson out there at CB? We could have used that $10 million on, oh, say....someone like Cedric Benson who might have made a real difference at another need position.

But our Texans Trio combined their brain power and came up with paying $10 million to Dunta Robinson?

I think the average Texans fan looks at that and scratches his head. He does the simple math, when comparing it to the Owen Daniels and DeMeco Ryans situations. It doesn't compute. Or at least that's how I feel about it.

 

[GP]

TC:

On a side-note, I think you do a good job of mining information from sources who are connected.

From the things I read from you, it sounds like you have built a rapport with sources, especially players. And I think the media will always be a little less trusted by the Texans management and the players, to some degree, because the newspaper/radio/TV industry has an selfish angle of breaking a story and getting eyeballs to focus on their pieces. But you come across as respecting the team, respecting the players, and it shows in the final product.

Therefore, I do think that the Houston media are always behind the eight-ball a little bit.

I think you and aj do a great job of bringing quality news items to the fan base.

 

[infantrycak]

$10 million for one year. That's absurd money, for o-n-e year. And, it was coming off (a) an injury and (b) him holding out for camp and preseason games. I'm failing to see how a player can get rewarded with that much cash for one year. It really confuses me.

Hence the "subjective reward system" theory.

You didn't address TC's key point - how does any of this reflect a disconnect between Smith and McNair?

 

[badboy]

Bob wouldn't even pony up the money to pay Parcells much less give him the money that Parcells wants to spend on players. Not a good analogy.

When you hire Parcells, you have to realize that he is smarter than you and that he is going to want to get who he wants and he doesn't want to get nickel and dimed like Bob has a tendency to do.

Rest assured, if Parcells had a hole at CB and RB and had been forced to get rid of a $10-12 million dollar contract (Dunta), he wouldn't be sitting on his hands and ignoring the problems like our current management is. He would address the issues at least temporarily, and then go into the draft without so many damn needs.

It sounds like the new Miami ownership group gets it...maybe one day Bob will.

but good luck with Reeves as your #1 CB, McNair. Thats gonna work out real well.

The issue I have with you is you take assumptions you make and state them as facts. For example, you say Reeves is our best CB and he might not be. Will not know until we see how Quin and even McCain do. You might be right but you might not. You assume that all of us should see DR the way you do and get agitated if we don't. It comes across to me and evidently others that you think we are stupid if we do not agree with you. Your philosphy seems to be "spend money on something even if there is no indication the 'something' will work". There was little to choose in free agency and the draft is commonly known as the best way to improve a team. Yet you are saying McNair flubbed it by allowing his management people to decide to address the needs of the team through what is thought to be a deep draft. We may be uniquely postioned to have player(s) available at our pick that could be turned in to more picks through a trade down.

You seem angry that many of us are ok with allowing DR to leave. It is an opinion. You have historically made mention of the owner being "cheap" despite facts proving you incorrrect and you just keep on bulldozing.

In my opinion, the upcoming draft offers CBs that could be our starting CB against the opponent's #1 WR. So far, I agree with the moves made by management concerning free agency, Dunta, our FA & even retaining Kubiac. If the areas of need that the team has identified are not addressed in draft, I will speak my opinion as I did after last draft when a power back was not selected. It will be only an opinion not fact.

 

[JB]

The issue I have with you is you take assumptions you make and state them as facts. For example, you say Reeves is our best CB and he might not be. Will not know until we see how Quin and even McCain do. You might be right but you might not. You assume that all of us should see DR the way you do and get agitated if we don't. It comes across to me and evidently others that you think we are stupid if we do not agree with you. Your philosphy seems to be "spend money on something even if there is no indication the 'something' will work". There was little to choose in free agency and the draft is commonly known as the best way to improve a team. Yet you are saying McNair flubbed it by allowing his management people to decide to address the needs of the team through what is thought to be a deep draft. We may be uniquely postioned to have player(s) available at our pick that could be turned in to more picks through a trade down.

You seem angry that many of us are ok with allowing DR to leave. It is an opinion. You have historically made mention of the owner being "cheap" despite facts proving you incorrrect and you just keep on bulldozing.

In my opinion, the upcoming draft offers CBs that could be our starting CB against the opponent's #1 WR. So far, I agree with the moves made by management concerning free agency, Dunta, our FA & even retaining Kubiac. If the areas of need that the team has identified are not addressed in draft, I will speak my opinion as I did after last draft when a power back was not selected. It will be only an opinion not fact.

Well Said! It's all getting a little old

 

[The Pencil Neck]

$10 million for one year. That's absurd money, for o-n-e year. And, it was coming off (a) an injury and (b) him holding out for camp and preseason games. I'm failing to see how a player can get rewarded with that much cash for one year. It really confuses me.

Hence the "subjective reward system" theory.

We seem to do fine with trotting out some scraps at RB, would it have hurt it any worse to not have $10 million Dunta Robinson out there at CB? We could have used that $10 million on, oh, say....someone like Cedric Benson who might have made a real difference at another need position.

But our Texans Trio combined their brain power and came up with paying $10 million to Dunta Robinson?

I think the average Texans fan looks at that and scratches his head. He does the simple math, when comparing it to the Owen Daniels and DeMeco Ryans situations. It doesn't compute. Or at least that's how I feel about it.

Most fans wanted him franchised. Many fans wanted him franchised a second time.

The thing is that Dunta was asking for almost that much money on a yearly basis and our braintrust didn't give it to him. They said it was too much. And they let him walk and then some fans complain that they're being cheap.

I agree with TC that the progress of events was something like this (with some additions of my own):
1. RS offered DR what he thought was a more than fair offer and he expected DR to accept it. RS told DR he wasn't going to franchise him because RS expected DR to be pleased with the offer.
2. DR did not accept it and asked for more.
3. RS franchised DR to allow us to concentrate on CB in the draft to try to find someone to groom (Quin, McCain) to improve the CB position for when DR left.
4. Angry at being franchised, DR played the franchised season.
5. After the season, RS let DR go instead of paying him more because RS/GK didn't think DR was worth the money AND thought that the CB position wouldn't suffer too much with DR's departure.

If I understand what you're saying
1. McNair told RS to keep DR whatever the cost.
2. RS franchised DR and paid him crazy money.
3. McNair wanted DR to be franchised again for even crazier money but RS misunderstood him and/or screwed up and didn't franchise DR a second time?

I'm just not following your logic. I don't think there was any disconnect. I don't think there was any miscommunication. And I don't think McNair had anything to do with other than being kept in the loop.

 

[GP]

You didn't address TC's key point - how does any of this reflect a disconnect between Smith and McNair?

The things I have read about Rick Smith...he doesn't seem like the guy who would pay Dunta Robinson $10 million for one season, coming off a nasty leg injury AND the absence from camp & preseason games shenangians. I think they wanted to try and get compensation for Dunta, just as they tried to trade David Carr and found out that David wasn't going to play that game with them. At the end of the day, guys, I think Bob McNair has a few players he wants to make sure get treated royally so that it reflects well on the image and brand of the Texans. Smithiak? They are trying to win games and get good value while not giving up much.

From the way things "appear," since we really don't know the 100% straight-scoop on how the Texans Trio (McNair, Smith, Kubiak) go about the decision-making process, it "appears" to me that Kubiak and Smith think fairly similar, with Smith doing the dirty work on keeping contracts as cheap and team-friendly as possible.

I think Kubiak wanted Benson, but Smith's contract budget (possibly set by Bob, but who really knows? LOL) didn't like the terms and conditions--Benson said he wanted a chance to get signifcant snaps, IIRC. Couple that with the ability of the Bengals to outdo the Texans in the salary area, and well...not able to seal the deal on a guy I think Kubiak wanted.

We got Antonio Smith for what is considered to be a pretty good value, at least in terms of it being team-friendly as far as free agent contracts are concerned.

So it just appears that Smithiak played hardball with Dunta, using the tag and maybe even considering tagging him again to get compensation for him. I think, honestly, that Smithiak was ready to unload Dunta and tried to tag him last off-season to maybe get something for him (remember: Smith was there with Kubiak during the We-Got-Schaub-From-Atlanta presser, saying they were trying to find a place to TRADE David Carr to). Smithiak wants to pay as little as they can, and yet get all that they can for THEIR price.

Carr and Dunta are clearly Bob's little pet "spending project," IMO. At the end of the day, McNair overrides Smithiak and chooses to bless those whom he wants to bless...regardless of merit.

I don't know how I can spell out, any more clearly, my stance on this. Do I have proof? No. I have observations from watching how things went down in the past, how things go down now, and how all of us know things are going to go down tomorrow and every day afterward.

Smithiak plays hardball (i.e. OD and Ryans contract talks, as well as tagging Dunta) and McNair is the big softy who writes the checks and will intervene if he wants to, for whatever subjective reason he deems to be logical. For him.

 

[infantrycak]

Carr and Dunta are clearly Bob's little pet "spending project," IMO. At the end of the day, McNair overrides Smithiak and chooses to bless those whom he wants to bless...regardless of merit.

I don't know how I can spell out, any more clearly, my stance on this. Do I have proof? No.

And there is where you run off the tracks. There is nothing whatsoever to say Smith and Kubiak were not in favor of franchising Dunta last year and weren't in favor this year of letting him go. And rather than just supposition try considering this. Last year there were no CBs rated highly enough to be taken with our 1st round pick. This year there are. Maybe that had something to do with it. But whatever, you have a tendency to think you can read minds. Entertaining off-season fodder.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

The things I have read about Rick Smith...he doesn't seem like the guy who would pay Dunta Robinson $10 million for one season, coming off a nasty leg injury AND the absence from camp & preseason games shenangians.

From the way things "appear," since we really don't know the 100% straight-scoop on how the Texans Trio (McNair, Smith, Kubiak) go about the decision-making process, it "appears" to me that Kubiak and Smith think fairly similar, with Smith doing the dirty work on keeping contracts as cheap and team-friendly as possible.

I think Kubiak wanted Benson, but Smith's contract budget didn't like the terms and conditions (Benson said he wanted a chance to get signifcant snaps, IIRC).

We got Antonio Smith for what is considered to be a pretty good value, at least in terms of it being team-friendly as far as free agent contracts are concerned.

So it just appears that Smithiak played hardball with Dunta, using the tag and maybe even considering tagging him again to get compensation for him. I think, honestly, that Smithiak was ready to unload Dunta and tried to tag him last off-season to maybe get something for him (remember: Smith was there with Kubiak during the We-Got-Schaub-From-Atlanta presser, saying they were trying to find a place to TRADE David Carr to). Smithiak wants to pay as little as they can, and yet get all that they can for THEIR price.

Carr and Dunta are clearly Bob's little pet "spending project," IMO. At the end of the day, McNair overrides Smithiak and chooses to bless those whom he wants to bless...regardless of merit.

I don't know how I can spell out, any more clearly, my stance on this. Do I have proof? No. I have observations from watching how things went down in the past, how things go down now, and how all of us know things are going to go down tomorrow and every day afterward.

Smithiak plays hardball (i.e. OD and Ryans contract talks, as well as tagging Dunta) and McNair is the big softy who writes the checks and will intervene if he wants to, for whatever subjective reason he deems to be logical. For him.

I think RS was ticked off for having to pay DR $10,000,000 for a year to keep him around as a security blanket. BUT he did it because circumstances forced him into that situation. Not McNair, just the fact that they didn't have enough talent at CB to take the hit of DR leaving. They needed to find some talent and groom it in a hurry.

I think we didn't get Benson because Benson wanted to be #1 and we already had a #1 in Slaton. So we offered him the #2 spot and Benson refused. That had nothing to do with the contract. We offered him a #2 contract.

I don't think McNair had anything to do with Dunta being franchised. I don't see that at all.

And I want my FO playing hardball with the contracts. I've got no problem with that. I think Dunta was offered a more than fair contract and turned it down. I want Smithiak to get Demeco and OD signed as soon as possible but I don't want to overpay for them. Overpaying guys was one of the problems with C&C.

 

[BigBull17]

Which is what begs the question: If McNair isn't "cheap," then why hasn't he rewarded at least DeMeco Ryans?

I understand the OD situation. Ryans should have had his deal done. Yesterday.

I don't care about 2011. If McNair dishes out the cash for David Freaking Carr or Dunta Fracking Robinson, why-oh-why would you not do a new deal for a guy who made your defense BETTER?!?! And consistently better, I might add. You know which defensive player actually made the defense consistently better, and which one made what I can only describe as a "marginal" improvement to the defense. It's simple.

So this is puzzling. It's maddening.

He tosses out bags of money to goons, but is tight-fisted with a couple of guys who arguably are a big reason the team has done so well. You guys all know who the two "goons" are, and you all know who the two "deserving" players are. It's simple. So it seems, at least.

It's almost as if you are taught that excelling on the Texans is not going to be rewarded. Reward, to McNair, is a subjective thing. A subjective thing that we typically use when we talk about the quirky decision-making of guys like Al Davis.

See, if it was a capped year, I would understand it. You want to wait to pay people as long as possible. However, it being an uncapped year, I don't get it. This is the time to front load the crap out of your players. Not to sit on your hands and do nada. Losing Dunta is no biggie, cause there is no way I would have paid him anything near what he got.

 

[GP]

And there is where you run off the tracks. There is nothing whatsoever to say Smith and Kubiak were not in favor of franchising Dunta last year and weren't in favor this year of letting him go. And rather than just supposition try considering this. Last year there were no CBs rated highly enough to be taken with our 1st round pick. This year there are. Maybe that had something to do with it. But whatever, you have a tendency to think you can read minds. Entertaining off-season fodder.

And because you disagree with me, and I with you, doesn't make either one of us necessarily correct.

There could be any combination to this three-part puzzle that is McNair-Smith-Kubiak.

There are times when it seems Rick is sort of his own person, apart form both Kubiak AND McNair. It's a very interesting mix, at least to me.

I see Smith and Kubiak as largely getting to do what they want to do, but then there appears to be times when certain players get huge sums of money for almost no true merit. I can see Smithiak tagging Dunta with hopes of leveraging it (as they did when they tried to leverage the trading of Carr) and it didn't work out in BOTH instances. Carr got a free ticket out of town AND stoopidly rich for his last year. Dunta got the very same thing himself.

Hold this against other situations in the past. Can anyone think of another similar situation with any former Texans player who had a sweetheart contract for one year, then got a free ticket out of town (after being royally douchey about all of it to begin with)? Smithiak got what they wanted, which was to try and leverage compensation out of carr and Dunta. And McNair got what he wanted, which was to reward face-of-the-franchise in order to portray his franchise in a positive light for future faces-of-the-franchise whom we might try to lure to Houston from other teams. Win-Win.

I seem to think Domanick Davis got rewarded, and I can't remember if he was rewarded right in the middle of what must have been a known issue with his knee(s) or not. I see that as being a nice gesture towards what was, sadly enough, probably our face-of-the-franchise outside of HWMNBN.

Bob probably allowed too much freedom with Casserly and Capers. And while I don't think Bob is a maniac with too much control right now, I really sense that he allows Smithiak to play hardball with 98% of the squad and McNair still will step in and give a sweetheart deal if he thinks it makes the franchise look magnaminous (sp?) in the public's eyes and in the NFL players/agent's eyes.

I am not crabby about this. I find it interesting to try and figure out what this team's Front Office is trying to do. Right now, even though 2011 holds some mystery, I think it would be the right thing to do (The McNair thing to do) to reward a guy like DeMeco Ryans. Owen? The injury screwed him, I'm afraid. But DeMeco should be rewarded regardless of 2011's puzzlement.

I guess I'm saying that it strikes me odd that Carr and Robinson were sweethearted and here we have a real, genuine, and loyal guy in Ryans who probably should get a new deal. It just doesn't sit well with me, when stacked up against the two guys who WERE sweethearted.

 

[infantrycak]

And because you disagree with me, and I with you, doesn't make either one of us necessarily correct.

Here is the difference. I don't pretend to know the dynamic between McNair, Kubiak and Smith and whether there was any disagreement between them on something like Dunta. My saying your suppositions aren't supported by evidence isn't a statement of a different knowledge on the topic and can and is correct independent of whether your guess is correct. You're crystal balling and that is fine but that's what it is. Plus I find the logic of the argument faulty with things like below.

I guess I'm saying that it strikes me odd that Carr and Robinson were sweethearted and here we have a real, genuine, and loyal guy in Ryans who probably should get a new deal. It just doesn't sit well with me, when stacked up against the two guys who WERE sweethearted.

NFL players don't consider getting franchise tagged being sweethearted. In fact it pisses them off to the point they do things like say skip training camp and pre-season. It's pretty obvious Dunta was not happy about getting tagged.

 

[GP]

Here is the difference. I don't pretend to know the dynamic between McNair, Kubiak and Smith and whether there was any disagreement between them on something like Dunta. My saying your suppositions aren't supported by evidence isn't a statement of a different knowledge on the topic and can and is correct independent of whether your guess is correct. You're crystal balling and that is fine but that's what it is.



NFL players don't consider getting franchise tagged being sweethearted. In fact it pisses them off to the point they do things like say skip training camp and pre-season.

I use lots of things, such as "IMO" to clarify that I sure as heck do not know for sure. What's funny is that there are people who (a) ignore that I preface my speculation, which is funny because (b) this is a message board which is basically an online barber shop where theories and ideas and opinions are expected to rule the day. So it would seem to be a bit redundant for me to go to the lengths that I go to in order to, as you say "crystal ball," when I think it's childish for me to have to preface it at all. But oh well.

Secondly, if getting $10 million for one last year in Houston, before parlaying that into a HUGE mega-deal with Atlanta during what I am being told is a "talent-rich draft for CBs" is being disrespected...then I'd love to be disrespected by Bob McNair. I think it's weak sauce for a player to cry about being franchised. Play your final year, make your sweetheart money, and then go somewhere the next year and get another good deal that someone is surely going to pay you. Yeah, how awful to be disrespected by being tagged.

I can't see why Dunta really lost anything by having to be tagged and play one last year in Houston. LOL. heck, he got his cake and was able to eat it, too. Compliments of McNair.

 

[El Tejano]

So Bob gets hammered for being too loyal, then when he sees that a guy didn't play up to the TOP 5 CB money he wanted, after showing him that they didn't just want to let him go for free he gets slammed for showing a guy the door.

Based on the stuff I've heard, sounds like RICK won THAT battle.

 

[Texans_Chick]

TC:

On a side-note, I think you do a good job of mining information from sources who are connected.

From the things I read from you, it sounds like you have built a rapport with sources, especially players. And I think the media will always be a little less trusted by the Texans management and the players, to some degree, because the newspaper/radio/TV industry has an selfish angle of breaking a story and getting eyeballs to focus on their pieces. But you come across as respecting the team, respecting the players, and it shows in the final product.

Therefore, I do think that the Houston media are always behind the eight-ball a little bit.

I think you and aj do a great job of bringing quality news items to the fan base.

Appreciate your kind words.

Though I know people with the Texans, I don't think they treat me particularly different than anyone else. I do remember a lot of information from a lot of different places, and I like putting it together.

Overall, I'm interested in fairness. And searching to find the God's-eye truth even though it is impossible. And not pretending like I know all the answers--I like when people challenge my assumptions. If someone says something, I want to know the evidence and the logic and reasons for why they are saying it. And if I'm saying something that is analysis, I like to say the reason why I'm thinking what I'm thinking, and say the reasons behind it.

I wouldn't want people to make up stuff about me or take potshots at me, and I like to extend the same courtesy to others. That's not just a writing about the Texans thing, but a life thing. Lots of gossip in sports, and it is hard to keep writing fair and honest.

I think it helps to be sympathetic to the challenges that all teams face--everybody is wanting to win, and there's lots of right and wrong ways to do it, and you need luck and making your own luck. In everything, not just football, it is much easier to be a critic than to be the person making decisions, and if you use that as a base assumption when in the position of putting together critical analysis, I think it helps in being fair.

 

[badboy]

Appreciate your kind words.

Though I know people with the Texans, I don't think they treat me particularly different than anyone else. I do remember a lot of information from a lot of different places, and I like putting it together.

Overall, I'm interested in fairness. And searching to find the God's-eye truth even though it is impossible. And not pretending like I know all the answers--I like when people challenge my assumptions. If someone says something, I want to know the evidence and the logic and reasons for why they are saying it. And if I'm saying something that is analysis, I like to say the reason why I'm thinking what I'm thinking, and say the reasons behind it.

I wouldn't want people to make up stuff about me or take potshots at me, and I like to extend the same courtesy to others. That's not just a writing about the Texans thing, but a life thing. Lots of gossip in sports, and it is hard to keep writing fair and honest.

I think it helps to be sympathetic to the challenges that all teams face--everybody is wanting to win, and there's lots of right and wrong ways to do it, and you need luck and making your own luck. In everything, not just football, it is much easier to be a critic than to be the person making decisions, and if you use that as a base assumption when in the position of putting together critical analysis, I think it helps in being fair.

All good points TC and I'd like to add that seldom do fans have all the information behind any decision made.

 

[El Tejano]

Has anyone thought that we might be trying to hold some of this money to perhaps make sure guys like Mario get signed next year?

 

[steelbtexan]

All good points TC and I'd like to add that seldom do fans have all the information behind any decision made.

Yes

But the decisions that McNair has made have resulted in medicore at best on the field product and has allowed him to make over 500 mil in an 8 year span.

I believe it's reasonable to question if winning or profit taking is most important to McNair.

 

[Joe Texan]

McNairs Decisions has put his last years payroll at the top in the league
He aint cheap but he has some cheap fans

 

[GP]

So Bob gets hammered for being too loyal, then when he sees that a guy didn't play up to the TOP 5 CB money he wanted, after showing him that they didn't just want to let him go for free he gets slammed for showing a guy the door.

Based on the stuff I've heard, sounds like RICK won THAT battle.

It'd be nice if we just knew exactly how things go down between McNair-Smith-Kubiak.

We know McNair wanted Carr back for an $8 million going-away-party. That's all on McNair. All day, every day, forever. On McNair.

The $10 million tryout for Dunta smells too much like the Carr situation for me. It's fearing that we're letting a good thing get away.

You don't see that sort of fear with Smithiak with the way they let Ryans and OD hang on a thread for this long. Yo don't see that fear when they (a) chortled at Benson's assertion of trying out--then he DID try out--and (b) they didn't pony up the money and some sort of allowance for him getting more carries than Benson felt he was going to get. I mean, so what? Tell him he's the man. Sign him. What's gonna' happen? Slaton did what a lot of people anticipated he'd do if he couldn't get his head right: He folded. That would have ushered in Benson with a stellar passing game that he could have complimented pretty well. I had visions of Lorenzo White catching screen passes and rumbling downfield when it looked like we had a shot at Benson. Oh well. I guess Chris Brown was pretty good, anyways. LOL.

We haven't had a running back identity since Domanick Davis, and what's sad is that when he had him...we didn't have a passing game identity outside of Carr chunking it 7 miles in the air and letting AJ go get it. Danged if we do, danged if we don't.

Got off on a rabbit trail there. I'm just frustrated with what seems to be Smithiak doing things a certain way--a pattern of conservatism--and then possibly Bob blowing big bucks on going-away-parties for players who don't merit it.

$10 million for one year. I guess inflation took $8 million (Carr) to $10 million (Dunta) for going-away-parties.

$18 million dollars total. Wow. Say that yourself, real slowly. What a waste of money.

 

[JB]

It'd be nice if we just knew exactly how things go down between McNair-Smith-Kubiak.

We know McNair wanted Carr back for an $8 million going-away-party. That's all on McNair. All day, every day, forever. On McNair.

The $10 million tryout for Dunta smells too much like the Carr situation for me. It's fearing that we're letting a good thing get away.

You don't see that sort of fear with Smithiak with the way they let Ryans and OD hang on a thread for this long. Yo don't see that fear when they (a) chortled at Benson's assertion of trying out--then he DID try out--and (b) they didn't pony up the money and some sort of allowance for him getting more carries than Benson felt he was going to get. I mean, so what? Tell him he's the man. Sign him. What's gonna' happen? Slaton did what a lot of people anticipated he'd do if he couldn't get his head right: He folded. That would have ushered in Benson with a stellar passing game that he could have complimented pretty well. I had visions of Lorenzo White catching screen passes and rumbling downfield when it looked like we had a shot at Benson. Oh well. I guess Chris Brown was pretty good, anyways. LOL.

We haven't had a running back identity since Domanick Davis, and what's sad is that when he had him...we didn't have a passing game identity outside of Carr chunking it 7 miles in the air and letting AJ go get it. Danged if we do, danged if we don't.

Got off on a rabbit trail there. I'm just frustrated with what seems to be Smithiak doing things a certain way--a pattern of conservatism--and then possibly Bob blowing big bucks on going-away-parties for players who don't merit it.

$10 million for one year. I guess inflation took $8 million (Carr) to $10 million (Dunta) for going-away-parties.

$18 million dollars total. Wow. Say that yourself, real slowly. What a waste of money.

What else would you have them do with DR last year? Let him walk? They knew they did not have anyone to take his place. Sign him to a multi-year deal coming of his injury at the money he wanted? That would have been stupid. Or did you want him franchised again this year? They figure they have the pieces in place now to move on. Or, maybe did you want them to sign him to a multi-year deal this offseason when they knew he was not worth the money and could be replaced without a huge drop-off in talent.

I can understand your complaints, but tell me what you would have had them do.

If you cannot come up with something realistic, that's ok. This is a MB where eveyone can be internet heroes and nothing has to make sense and your opinion can be more valuable than anyone else's... in you own mind.

 

[Wolf]

We haven't had a running back identity since Domanick Davis, and what's sad is that when he had him...we didn't have a passing game identity outside of Carr chunking it 0.7 meters in the air and letting AJ go get it. Danged if we do, danged if we don't.

.

fixed it for you

 

[Wolf]

Texans were in a tough spot with D-Rob .. they needed to see what they had in him and also with the way our Secondary was banged up early in the season ..we were pretty thin there .

 

[b0ng]

I don't mind the franchise -> walk scenario with Dunta nearly as much as I did with Carr. Carr was not coming off of a significant injury, there was much LESS speculation about where he was as an NFL player than there was with Dunta.

It's sad that things de-volved into what they became with Dunta but he wanted more money than what the front office (and a good portion of the fans) thought he was worth. I figure they were going to have people heckling the secondary in 2010 unless they drafted a gem, and why pay a guy a ridiculous sum of money when he's just not that much better than your rookies and young players? Because it's an uncapped year? Because you think that small edge in talent will push you over the top (When it never has before)? Smells like magic beans and I'm glad we didn't sign him for the deal Atlanta gave him or worse.

 

[DocBar]

its kinda funny that you can't defend Bob's actions so you just try and act like I am going off the deep end on this.

let me repeat TB, Reeves is now our #1 CB. the draft isn't going to change that. scrapheap free agency isn't going to change that. but we only have Peyton Manning in our division, we don't need a corner. After all, we already drafted Mario to beat Peyton and we all know how well that has worked out for us....

but dunta wrote on his shoes and he held out of camp, so losing him is good even though he wasn't replaced.

yeah, thats some winning logic there. sometimes the truth hurts, bill....but blaming me for hitting the wakeup call isn't going to not make Reeves our #1 CB.

All that stuff sounds fine on a MB, but just who would Tuna Parcells have replaced DR with? Or get a RB? You have to have value for the money. Haven't the Texans spent enough on over the hill RB's, only to be roasted on this MB for signing them? You can't just throw money at FA's and make the playoff's. The Redskins have been doing that for a while now, how's that worked out for them?
This reminds me of all the fans who say "trade down in the draft and get extra picks." Works great if you can find a trading partner. Not so much if you don't. IMO, Smithiak has earned the right to not make a move. Knowing when not to pull the trigger is just as important as knowing when to.
Besides, I think Quin will be the #1 CB after TC. Feel better now?

Oh yeah...I doubt they let DR go because he wrote on his shoes and stuff. It just might've been the fact that he's played worse than Reeves and demanding more money than Asmougaha(the Raiders CB LOL)

 

[otisbean]

To all those trying to be rational with SH, words of advice:
Never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.

SH, you comments are so far out in left field I'm almost thinking you're joking. Even though there is no cap, there are massive ramifications to massively overpaying a mediocre player. Every other agent of every player we have will use that contract in negotiations: if DR got 12 mill for medicore season he had how do you not over pay everyone else? What do you give Cushing and Ryans then 20mil each? They WAY outplayed DR.

You complained about Mario's contract, his was all but set the minute he was drafted and this is why there are CBA problems, overpaying guys that haven't done squat yet

Please do us all a favor, learn the facts before you go on a tirade next time

 

[badboy]

Yes

But the decisions that McNair has made have resulted in medicore at best on the field product and has allowed him to make over 500 mil in an 8 year span.

I believe it's reasonable to question if winning or profit taking is most important to McNair.

Sure it is reasonable to question anything, but when numerous facts & examples have been identified to resolve your question, then it is reasonable to move on.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

To all those trying to be rational with SH, words of advice:
Never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.

SH, you comments are so far out in left field I'm almost thinking you're joking. Even though there is no cap, there are massive ramifications to massively overpaying a mediocre player. Every other agent of every player we have will use that contract in negotiations: if DR got 12 mill for medicore season he had how do you not over pay everyone else? What do you give Cushing and Ryans then 20mil each? They WAY outplayed DR.

You complained about Mario's contract, his was all but set the minute he was drafted and this is why there are CBA problems, overpaying guys that haven't done squat yet

Please do us all a favor, learn the facts before you go on a tirade next time

i know my facts. and the fact is that there is no cap and there are no massive ramifications to franchising a player even though you act like its somehow going to upset the cosmic balance.

before you start calling people out, maybe start being a little more realistic and objective.

as for Mario being overpaid, my point was that players get overpaid. almost every player is overpaid, but stop acting like they got rid of Dunta so they wouldn't have to pay Ryans or Cush or whoever more....do you actually believe that?

they got rid of Dunta because it became personal between Dunta and Smith and because McNair is in profit-mode. 500 million wasn't enough profit.

our team is worse today than it was in Week 17. if you want to spin that to make your peepee hurt less, that is your prerogative. i am just being honest and objective about our team, our owner, and our talent level.

dunta was a good player. he acted like an asshat but he was a good player. Reeves is now our #1 corner and if you think that is a good think and worth it because McNair got to keep more of his money, that is fine by me. Just don't try and crucify or belittle me because I think it was a bad football move. you don't let your #1 corners just walk. if dunta was so bad, how bad was reeves, mccain, quin, or anyone else on our squad. the Falcons (and many other teams) were more than happy to pay Dunta...and you know why? because they are trying to take steps forward...not backwards.

you don't have to agree with me, but don't act like I am way off in left field....because I am not.

the Texans and some of their fans have let this become personal and have clouded their judgement on Dunta. when OD holds out of camp, I wonder if the fans will crucify him and hold grudges like they are doing with Dunta.....something tells me they won't. after all he is one of the 'good guys'.

 

[Wolf]

oh goodness *sigh*

Dunta was good... yes but not 12million good.. go watch Reavis and tell me what he is worth if you wanted to keep D-Rob at 12 million

 

[Texan_Bill]

they got rid of Dunta because it became personal between Dunta and Smith and because McNair is in profit-mode. 500 million wasn't enough profit.

Bullshit... They let Dunta walk because a mediocre CB aint worth $12 mill. or what the Falcons paid the guy. Get it through your head, he's not worth it. If you can justify paying him what he got, than by your logic 'Meco would be worth $50-75 mill per season.

Thank God, you do what you do here and not actually for the Texans. Feel free to go to work for the Titans or Cowboys though.

 

[Wolf]

here is your Dunta "wishlist "highlight of the year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph8ytA3sZw8

 

[Texan_Bill]

here is your Dunta "wishlist "highlight of the year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph8ytA3sZw8

Was that from three seasons ago?

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Bullshit... They let Dunta walk because a mediocre CB aint worth $12 mill. or what the Falcons paid the guy. Get it through your head, he's not worth it. If you can justify paying him what he got, than by your logic 'Meco would be worth $50-75 mill per season.

Thank God, you do what you do here and not actually for the Texans. Feel free to go to work for the Titans or Cowboys though.

its obvious that he is worth it. i guess all of a sudden you know more than the Falcons, huh? a player is worth what a team is willing to pay, and teams were lining up to sign Dunta and he became insta-signed.

we just weren't willing to pay what was asked because A.) it became personal with management and B.) Bob is in profit-mode. After all, $500 million return on your investment in 8 years just isn't enough nowadays.

Bob and the rest of the Texans are content now that they got to the valhalla of 9-7 and will now roll the dice on their younger guys and pray for the best rather than doing whatever they can to improve the team.

and TB, my problem isn't not signing Dunta, its not taking the money you saved from not paying Dunta and putting it towards getting another player that could help us win. The money just went into Bob's pocket and he failed to bring anyone in worth a crap to help offset the loss.

whether you like it or not, there is a loss by losing Dunta. our team did not magically improve by losing Dunta. that is just foolish or what you would call 'bullshit'.

if he had taken the money he put in his pocket by releasing Dunta, and put it into another position or another player, then I wouldn't have a problem but all he did was put the money in his pocket and sign Wade Smith. Re-signing Walter doesn't count. That was a good move, but its not improving the team. Its keeping the team the same and at least not letting another quality player go.

you don't like Dunta. i get it. but to act like he sucks or that we are better without him is just 'bullshit'

 

[Wolf]

wow it is freaking laughable


top 5 payroll ( based on link that was shown on this thread)

and yet .average to lower NFL average in ticket prices

HOUSTON – The Houston Texans announced their ticket prices for the 2010 season today. The Texans’ average ticket price in 2010 will be $71.86 per ticket, which is up 6.67 percent from $67.37 last year. In 2009, the Texans were in the lower half of the NFL in average ticket price. The Texans do not anticipate this ranking to change significantly in 2010.

http://www.khou.com/sports/Texans-ticket-prices-to-go-up-in-2010-81815172.html


you'd think it would be top 5 ticket prices and average to below average in NFL salary if Bob was so cheap and was so greedy

oye.

 

[Wolf]

Its obvious that he is worth it. i guess all of a sudden you know more than the Falcons, huh? a player is worth what a team is willing to pay, and teams were lining up to sign Dunta and he became insta-signed.

so was Robaire Smith, Anthony Weaver,Todd Wade worth it?? worth what the Texans paid for them ?

 

[BigBull17]

i know my facts. and the fact is that there is no cap and there are no massive ramifications to franchising a player even though you act like its somehow going to upset the cosmic balance.

before you start calling people out, maybe start being a little more realistic and objective.

as for Mario being overpaid, my point was that players get overpaid. almost every player is overpaid, but stop acting like they got rid of Dunta so they wouldn't have to pay Ryans or Cush or whoever more....do you actually believe that?

they got rid of Dunta because it became personal between Dunta and Smith and because McNair is in profit-mode. 500 million wasn't enough profit.

our team is worse today than it was in Week 17. if you want to spin that to make your peepee hurt less, that is your prerogative. i am just being honest and objective about our team, our owner, and our talent level.

dunta was a good player. he acted like an asshat but he was a good player. Reeves is now our #1 corner and if you think that is a good think and worth it because McNair got to keep more of his money, that is fine by me. Just don't try and crucify or belittle me because I think it was a bad football move. you don't let your #1 corners just walk. if dunta was so bad, how bad was reeves, mccain, quin, or anyone else on our squad. the Falcons (and many other teams) were more than happy to pay Dunta...and you know why? because they are trying to take steps forward...not backwards.

you don't have to agree with me, but don't act like I am way off in left field....because I am not.

the Texans and some of their fans have let this become personal and have clouded their judgement on Dunta. when OD holds out of camp, I wonder if the fans will crucify him and hold grudges like they are doing with Dunta.....something tells me they won't. after all he is one of the 'good guys'.

I agree the Texans are being uber cheap this offseason, but Dunta is average at best. I watched him closly and didn't see anything really impressive from him all season.

 

[GP]

To those asking what I would have done...

I would have tried my hardest to trade Dunta before last season. The sticky issue is that his leg was questionable, as to how it holds up over the yet-to-be-played 2009 season. So he wasn't very tradeable. But I would have tried.

I would not have franchised him. Worst-case scenario, for me as the pretend-to-be-a-GM is that I can't trade him. So I let him go. I play my drafted CBs, maybe get a street free agent or some other team's camp cut (Pollard shows that it IS possible, OK?). I essentially concede that we're letting a good, TACKLING/RUN SUPPORT cornerback get away. I limp by until I can get past the 2009 season.

But I do NOT spend $10 million for one year of Dunta Robinson. Never. Ever.

It's being made out as if we suddenly become infinitely worse without Dunta last season, if my scenario had been played out. We wouldn't have been THAT much worse. He's not THAT good at pass coverage. And his tackling skills were spotty, at best, all season long in 2009.

Just my two cents.

 

[steelbtexan]

Sure it is reasonable to question anything, but when numerous facts & examples have been identified to resolve your question, then it is reasonable to move on.

Which I have moved on.

Lifes too short to worry about McNairs committment to winning vs making money.

But let me tell you if this team has a bad year next year watch how quickly the fan base turns on the Texans organization. (Including McNair)

And all it will take is an injury to Schaub.

 

[infantrycak]

Was that from three seasons ago?

Too funny - having a ball tipped into his hands was the only way he was going to get an INT.

But I do NOT spend $10 million for one year of Dunta Robinson. Never. Ever.

So you agree the Texans should have never ever paid him $12 mil for one year as well - uncapped or otherwise?