Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of this generation

[Double Barrel]

Well according to The NFL and ESPN who, when he plays on Monday night, turns the initials MNF to mean Masterbation Night Football - if you have one ring like Brett Favre, you are the best ever.

Peyton is already better than alot of the guys that came before him.

lol! Good point. Manning is already the second longest active streak behind Favre, so give it time. We might be talking about Peyton the way we talk about Brett a decade from now!

Can you even begin to imagine the hype around Favre if he actually wins a ring this year? G.O.A.T.!!!

 

[Double Barrel]

Well, I'm dredging it up, because Manning is one game away from clearly being up there with the greats. He already is in reality, but we all know what rings mean in the big picture of things.

And while I've been a fan of Brady, this season has been one that has slowly swayed me over to the Manning camp in this debate.

I don't root for the guy, but dern if I don't have the utmost respect for him. Put another ring on his hand and with many years ahead of him, and we are looking at one of the G.O.A.T.s of the NFL.

I guess I should feel "honored" that I've seen him in person so many times...but I keep thinking...

Why does he have to be in our division?!!!

 

[DBCooper]

Thanks for the clarification in this thread. Dungy talked about this exact subject prior to the MNF game. Manning IS NOT the OC on the field, folks. He's fantastic at reading defenses and picking one out of three plays sent to him, but he's not a one man coaching/coordinating/quarterbacking/sandwich-making machine out there.

I'd bet big money Peyton can make a mean sandwich!

 

[TheRealJoker]

Part of me wants the Colts to win the SB solely due to my desperate hope that another ring will convince Seyton Manning to retire a few years sooner rather than pull a Favre and haunt us forever

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I guess I should feel "honored" that I've seen him in person so many times...but I keep thinking...

Why does he have to be in our division?!!!

Just like the Steelers from the Bradshaw era Steelers and the Bum Phillips era Oilers.

 

[Wolf]

Peyton Manning’s Case for Being the Best Ever

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The Indianapolis Colts were trailing Houston, 17-0, when the Texans rookie linebacker Brian Cushing glanced up to see Colts quarterback Peyton Manning looking in the direction of the defense’s huddle. In those few seconds of quiet before the chaos at the line of scrimmage, Cushing saw Manning nodding his head. Up and down. Up and down.

Uh-oh.

“He was sizing us up,” Cushing said. “I had that feeling right then that he was locked in and that might be it.”

It was. Manning threw a 20-yard completion to start that drive and a touchdown pass to finish it, igniting a comeback that resulted in another Indianapolis victory.

Others might not have noticed the precise moment that Manning dissected their defenses and took over a game, the way Cushing did in November, but almost every other opponent in the N.F.L. has known the feeling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/sports/football/07manning.html?partner=TOPIXNEWS&ei=5099

 

[Double Barrel]

I'm back with Brady at 1(a) and Manning 1(b). Brady has never thrown a pick 6 when the Super Bowl was on the line. That was a huge black eye to Peyton's legacy, IMO. Still a great QB, but he'll have to do a LOT more to be considered G.O.A.T., simpy because he'll always have that choke play on his resume now.

 

[disaacks3]

I'm back with Brady at 1(a) and Manning 1(b). Brady has never thrown a pick 6 when the Super Bowl was on the line. That was a huge black eye to Peyton's legacy, IMO. Still a great QB, but he'll have to do a LOT more to be considered G.O.A.T., simpy because he'll always have that choke play on his resume now.

Normally, I'd agree with this, but that pick happened due to the WR not coming back to the ball. The ball itself was on-target. I'm still trying to figure out why the Colts went conservative at the end of the 1st half (after the goal-line stand).

Oh well, at least the football world can stop "feeling sorry" for the Sants once-and-for-all.

 

[El Tejano]

Normally, I'd agree with this, but that pick happened due to the WR not coming back to the ball.

I'm still trying to figure out why the Colts went conservative at the end of the 1st half (after the goal-line stand).

Because the football Gods got upset when they didn't try to go undefeated. They took back their covenant with The Colts. Yipeeee!!!!!

Oh well, at least the football world can stop "feeling sorry" for the Sants once-and-for-all.

On to feeling sorry for Detroit, Cleveland, Jville (they can wait for them), and Houston.

 

[Wolf]

Manning does lick a mean oreo.

 

[Texecutioner]

I'm back with Brady at 1(a) and Manning 1(b). Brady has never thrown a pick 6 when the Super Bowl was on the line. That was a huge black eye to Peyton's legacy, IMO. Still a great QB, but he'll have to do a LOT more to be considered G.O.A.T., simpy because he'll always have that choke play on his resume now.

I don't see how he ever could have been considered GOAT when this is only his 2nd SB appearance. He's had a lot of post season choke games as well. He might go down as the best "regular season" QB of all time, but Peyton is nowhere near being above Joe Montana at this point in my opinion when Joe was 4 for 4 in the SB and Tom Brady is 3 for 4 where he did enough to get a win for the Pats in his last SB. I don't think I've ever seen any QB get the kind of protection that Manning has had throughout his career either and that's a pretty important factor when discussing this. Manning barely got touched this season, and like you say he threw one major pick just now in that game that sealed it for the Saints and I thought it was a beautiful thing to watch.

 

[infantrycak]

I don't see how he ever could have been considered GOAT when this is only his 2nd SB appearance. He's had a lot of post season choke games as well. He might go down as the best "regular season" QB of all time, but Peyton is nowhere near being above Joe Montana at this point in my opinion when Joe was 4 for 4 in the SB and Tom Brady is 3 for 4 where he did enough to get a win for the Pats in his last SB. I don't think I've ever seen any QB get the kind of protection that Manning has had throughout his career either and that's a pretty important factor when discussing this. Manning barely got touched this season, and like you say he threw one major pick just now in that game that sealed it for the Saints and I thought it was a beautiful thing to watch.

There is something anti-Aikman about Manning. Aikman never put up big numbers during the regular season but was nails in the play-offs.

 

[Texecutioner]

There is something anti-Aikman about Manning. Aikman never put up big numbers during the regular season but was nails in the play-offs.

Agreed. Personally I'd go with Elway over Manning easily at this point. Manning still has much more to deliver, but Elway went to 3 SB's as a pretty young QB throwing to some cans at WR. Maybe not cans, but Sammy Winder was one of his best weapons back then and that's not much at all. Elway got slautered in those 3 early ones, but the guy was the come back kid just like Montana was back then. I hated Elway so bad in those Oilers years. I wanted him dead. (Not literally) Then years later he was still damn good and knew how to let his running game carry the offense more and he could do the rest and got two SB's for himself and went out on top. That's 5 SB appearances over all for the man. His numbers weren't ever eye gouging every season, but Elway was one of the greatest. I haven't seen enough from Manning to put him above Elway.

 

[Double Barrel]

Normally, I'd agree with this, but that pick happened due to the WR not coming back to the ball. The ball itself was on-target. I'm still trying to figure out why the Colts went conservative at the end of the 1st half (after the goal-line stand).

Oh well, at least the football world can stop "feeling sorry" for the Sants once-and-for-all.

It sounds like an excuse to me. Manning threw the ball. He chose where to throw it. He was the last Colt to touch the ball before the pick 6.

While there certainly could have been reason(s) behind his decision making, the simple fact is that he's the field general and the Saints D burned him with that play.

And is that an official story by Manning - that his WR failed - is that just speculation?

I don't see how he ever could have been considered GOAT when this is only his 2nd SB appearance. He's had a lot of post season choke games as well. He might go down as the best "regular season" QB of all time, but Peyton is nowhere near being above Joe Montana at this point in my opinion when Joe was 4 for 4 in the SB and Tom Brady is 3 for 4 where he did enough to get a win for the Pats in his last SB. I don't think I've ever seen any QB get the kind of protection that Manning has had throughout his career either and that's a pretty important factor when discussing this. Manning barely got touched this season, and like you say he threw one major pick just now in that game that sealed it for the Saints and I thought it was a beautiful thing to watch.

yeah, I agree. I was merely saying that if Manning won two rings, then he could be worthy of consideration for GOAT (not saying that I would argue for it, but rather his body of work could be construed for such a perspective).

Montana is my choice for GOAT, and nobody has really comes close. Brady, maybe, but he's got to do it again, and the fact is that Montana never lost a SB.

I used Aikman as an example yesterday. Folks were talking about great QBs and I mentioned Aikman's career. Somebody balked until they looked up his numbers. It did help, though, that he had one of the greatest RBs ever to play the game behind him.

 

[infantrycak]

Montana is my choice for GOAT, and nobody has really comes close. Brady, maybe, but he's got to do it again, and the fact is that Montana never lost a SB.

My GOAT is Staubach. Football is a team sport and things happen to get you rings you individually don't deserve (Bradshaw) or to keep you from getting a ring you might. I am not sure Brady would make my top 5.

 

[Double Barrel]

My GOAT is Staubach. Football is a team sport and things happen to get you rings you individually don't deserve (Bradshaw) or to keep you from getting a ring you might. I am not sure Brady would make my top 5.

Staubach is always under-appreciated, IMO. But dude was clutch and had some of the greatest scrambling abilities next to Tarkenton. Folks like to ramble on about "running QBs" these days, but the difference is that the old guys would scramble behind the LOS until they found an open receiver. These current "running QBs" don't seem to have the patience or eye for it, or they are just selfish and start running before a receiver gets loose. IIRC, didn't Staubach win two out of four SBs? Only stopped by one of the greatest teams of all time (which we know all about).

Brady not in top 5, 'eh? Wow. Look earlier in this thread for some of his accomplishments. I would easily put him up there with Elway, Staubach, Aikman, or any other multiple SB winners not named Montana.

 

[infantrycak]

Staubach is always under-appreciated, IMO. But dude was clutch and had some of the greatest scrambling abilities next to Tarkenton. Folks like to ramble on about "running QBs" these days, but the difference is that the old guys would scramble behind the LOS until they found an open receiver. These current "running QBs" don't seem to have the patience or eye for it, or they are just selfish and start running before a receiver gets loose. IIRC, didn't Staubach win two out of four SBs? Only stopped by one of the greatest teams of all time (which we know all about).

Yup and didn't start playing until 27 years old because of his Navy commitment. I know the Cowboys aren't popular around here but they were robbed in SB V - I mean c'mon a Cowboy jumps on the fumbled ball, no scrum stands up with it and the ref runs up and signals Indy ball while the Cowboy is holding it. But anyway.

Brady not in top 5, 'eh? Wow. Look earlier in this thread for some of his accomplishments. I would easily put him up there with Elway, Staubach, Aikman, or any other multiple SB winners not named Montana.

Well I would have Staubach, Montana, Elway, Marino and Manning before him and possibly some others not having thought of it extensively. If rings become the discussion then you have to consider guys like Aikman and Bradshaw. I think Brady is much better than Bradshaw, Aikman not so sure. Aikman wasn't a stat geek but damn he could throw a pretty and accurate ball and it seemed like the better the competition the more he upped his game. Do you think Marino in his prime could have done as well with those Patriot games or vice versa?

 

[Texecutioner]

Yup and didn't start playing until 27 years old because of his Navy commitment. I know the Cowboys aren't popular around here but they were robbed in SB V - I mean c'mon a Cowboy jumps on the fumbled ball, no scrum stands up with it and the ref runs up and signals Indy ball while the Cowboy is holding it. But anyway.



Well I would have Staubach, Montana, Elway, Marino and Manning before him and possibly some others not having thought of it extensively. If rings become the discussion then you have to consider guys like Aikman and Bradshaw. I think Brady is much better than Bradshaw, Aikman not so sure. Aikman wasn't a stat geek but damn he could throw a pretty and accurate ball and it seemed like the better the competition the more he upped his game. Do you think Marino in his prime could have done as well with those Patriot games or vice versa?

I just don't see how Brady isn't up there in that top 5 for you especially after reading those stats that DB posted early on in this thread about Brady's post season numbers. We don't have to go simply off of SB's, but post season in general and to me if Brady retired right now, he'd be up there with all of those guys. He's got some pretty damn good stats to now and that was the thing before with him, and then he broke the record the minute he got some real WR's. Look at how many times Brady has taken his team down the field to win games as well. He's been as clutch as any of them and he's never had some great RB's to help him out a lot. Dillion was old when he got there. He was pretty good, but nothing spectacular at that point.

And no I don't think Marino would have been as great with those Patriots teams? That question used to get asked about Marino if he were on those 49er teams instead of Joe and I thought the same thing then. Marino was probably the best over all passer of all time, but as a QB and a leader I don't think he was as good as guys like Montana, Elway, and Brady.

 

[Double Barrel]

Well I would have Staubach, Montana, Elway, Marino and Manning before him and possibly some others not having thought of it extensively. If rings become the discussion then you have to consider guys like Aikman and Bradshaw. I think Brady is much better than Bradshaw, Aikman not so sure. Aikman wasn't a stat geek but damn he could throw a pretty and accurate ball and it seemed like the better the competition the more he upped his game. Do you think Marino in his prime could have done as well with those Patriot games or vice versa?

Lots of folks put Marino up there because of his gawdy numbers, but that's sort of simplistic just like looking solely at rings.

To me it's about a complete body of work: stats, rings, come-from-behind-victories, and overall clutch performances.

I tend to see Marino in the same light as Warren Moon. Both are extremely gifted QBs, without a doubt, and perhaps two of the most beautiful "passers" that the league has ever seen. But, they did not have that intangible "it" factor that these other QBs had. I think a QB like Elway or even Jim Kelly (among others of that era) would have taken those Oilers teams to the SB at least once.

It's a good food-for-though discussion, though, and nobody is right/wrong simply because of the nature of these things.

I just don't see how Brady isn't up there in that top 5 for you especially after reading those stats that DB posted early on in this thread about Brady's post season numbers. We don't have to go simply off of SB's, but post season in general and to me if Brady retired right now, he'd be up there with all of those guys. He's got some pretty damn good stats to now and that was the thing before with him, and then he broke the record the minute he got some real WR's. Look at how many times Brady has taken his team down the field to win games as well. He's been as clutch as any of them and he's never had some great RB's to help him out a lot. Dillion was old when he got there. He was pretty good, but nothing spectacular at that point.

This is where I am at with Brady, as well. I've always been a fan, but when I really studied his body of work and compared it to other great QBs, his stands on it's own. It's beyond rings (although they should be included), but his overall stats and 'clutch factor' is up there with the greats, IMO.

 

[Hervoyel]

Manning laughs at those who suggest he walks on water. He walks on his hands on water people. Get it straight.

 

[Thorn]

Well, one things for sure, without Manning the Dolts aren't worth a crap. You have to give him that even if you don't think he one of the greatest of all time. His absolute value to that organization is just everything.

I'll sure as hell be happy when he retires. LOL

 

[Texan_Bill]

Well, one things for sure, without Manning the Dolts aren't worth a crap. You have to give him that even if you don't think he one of the greatest of all time. His absolute value to that organization is just everything.

I'll sure as hell be happy when he retires. LOL

He's 33 y/o but with the amount of times he's been hit (or not hit as it were), he could last in the league until
he's 45, or right about the time you can finally retire.

 

[Double Barrel]

Well, one things for sure, without Manning the Dolts aren't worth a crap. You have to give him that even if you don't think he one of the greatest of all time. His absolute value to that organization is just everything.

I'll sure as hell be happy when he retires. LIL

No argument from me on either point. I'm looking forward to the latter, whenever that could possibly be.

 

[WWJD]

Yep..his body hasn't had the hits other QB's have taken and other than those knee infections or whatever he had surgery for last year he's been injury free.

 

[ObsiWan]

Greatest of ALL TIME
1. Otto Graham - How can he not be the greatest. He led his team to the NFL Championship game all six seasons he QB'd the Browns.
2. Sammy Baugh - Basically invented the passing game.
3. Johnny Unitas - Invented the timing pass and the two-minute drill.
4. Joe Montana - Won every Super Bowl he played in and even took the Chiefs to the playoffs.
5. Terry Bradshaw - I struggled with this one due to my anti-Steeler bias left over from my Oiler years; but if Brady is in the conversation with three rings then Bradshaw has to make the list with four. Oh and did I mention that Brady lost a S/B game. Bradshaw won all of his.

Greatest of THIS GEN.
1. Tom Brady. Four S/Bs, three rings. 'Nuff said.
2. Drew Brees. Anyone who can make hell freeze over (i.e. the Saints won the S/B) is on this list. If he takes the Saints back to the S/B he moves up to #1.
3. Peyton Manning. Passing records out the wahzoo. But he was out-dueled by that guy San Diego said wasn't good enough. Wonder what the SD fans think about that move now...?
4. Troy Aikman - A generation is defined as a 20-yr period. Ergo, I get to go all the way back to guys who played in the 90s. And of the QBs that played in the 90s, Aikman won the most championships.
5. Dan Marino - Best pure passer of the 90s. I was tempted to put Steve Young or Brett Favre here since they won S/Bs and Marino didn't. But I think Marino was the best pure QB of the three. Just MHO.

 

[Texecutioner]

He's 33 y/o but with the amount of times he's been hit (or not hit as it were), he could last in the league until
he's 45, or right about the time you can finally retire.

manning is by far the most protected QB I've ever seen in the NFL. I've never seen anyone get anywhere near the protection that Manning has gotten over the years.

 

[Texecutioner]

I think a QB like Elway or even Jim Kelly (among others of that era) would have taken those Oilers teams to the SB at least once.

Interesting idea to propose there. Jim Kelly is very very underrated in the grand scheme of things. All time great for sure.

Now if John Elway would have been the QB for the Oilers instead of Moon, well there is no doubt in my mind that we'd be looking at a few SB appearances and he'd have gotten at least one ring in those match ups. You want to talk about the "IT" factor, well he had it. No disrespect to Moon, because he was one of the best pure passers of all time, but he made epic picks at the wrong time way to often while Elway would put fans in tears when he'd create his typical come from behind victories. I could only have imagined what Elway could have done with those weapons the Oilers had in the Run And Shoot offense.

 

[infantrycak]

I just don't see how Brady isn't up there in that top 5 for you especially after reading those stats that DB posted early on in this thread about Brady's post season numbers.

Lots of folks put Marino up there because of his gawdy numbers, but that's sort of simplistic just like looking solely at rings.

To me it's about a complete body of work: stats, rings, come-from-behind-victories, and overall clutch performances.

I understand the argument for Brady and don't really disagree with it. It comes down to removing somebody from the list. I guess y'all agree to take Marino off and put Brady on. I just have this gut impression that Marino elevated his team and Brady has more ridden his team. I think there were a lot of teams that just missed the SB or failed to win it and you could have stuck Marino on and they would have succeeded. Not sure how many teams you could say the same thing about Brady.

 

[Ckw]

Greatest of ALL TIME
1. Otto Graham - How can he not be the greatest. He led his team to the NFL Championship game all six seasons he QB'd the Browns.
2. Sammy Baugh - Basically invented the passing game.
3. Johnny Unitas - Invented the timing pass and the two-minute drill.
4. Joe Montana - Won every Super Bowl he played in and even took the Chiefs to the playoffs.
5. Terry Bradshaw - I struggled with this one due to my anti-Steeler bias left over from my Oiler years; but if Brady is in the conversation with three rings then Bradshaw has to make the list with four. Oh and did I mention that Brady lost a S/B game. Bradshaw won all of his.

Nice list, but my problem with guys like Graham and Baugh is they played in a COMPLETELY different generation of football. Guys were nowhere near as big or as fast (relative to their size), and so I just don't think you can really put them on a list like this. They were great for sure and perhaps deserve their own list, but the GOAT discussion should really involve football in the modern (1970s or so and on) era. It's unfair because I can only imagine what someone like Brady or Manning (with their size, arm strength, and accuracy) would have done on those Cleveland teams. Just my opinion but I doubt they would do much, if any, less than Otto Graham.

Greatest of THIS GEN.
1. Tom Brady. Four S/Bs, three rings. 'Nuff said.
2. Drew Brees. Anyone who can make hell freeze over (i.e. the Saints won the S/B) is on this list. If he takes the Saints back to the S/B he moves up to #1.
3. Peyton Manning. Passing records out the wahzoo. But he was out-dueled by that guy San Diego said wasn't good enough. Wonder what the SD fans think about that move now...?
4. Troy Aikman - A generation is defined as a 20-yr period. Ergo, I get to go all the way back to guys who played in the 90s. And of the QBs that played in the 90s, Aikman won the most championships.
5. Dan Marino - Best pure passer of the 90s. I was tempted to put Steve Young or Brett Favre here since they won S/Bs and Marino didn't. But I think Marino was the best pure QB of the three. Just MHO.

I think this is a great list, but I am confused why you consider Marino apart of THIS GEN but not Montana. Also, where is Elway?!?!

I understand the argument for Brady and don't really disagree with it. It comes down to removing somebody from the list. I guess y'all agree to take Marino off and put Brady on. I just have this gut impression that Marino elevated his team and Brady has more ridden his team. I think there were a lot of teams that just missed the SB or failed to win it and you could have stuck Marino on and they would have succeeded. Not sure how many teams you could say the same thing about Brady.

Wow! Man, this is just an argument I really can't understand. Sure he had some great defenses for those first two Super Bowls, but he also was basically playing by himself on offense. He had NOBODY. What happened to his best receiver at the time (Deion Branch) when he left? David Givens? Troy Brown? The guy was throwing to basically nobodies and still put up decent numbers. When he finally got a good WR like Manning has had for his entire career, he was shattering records. I can only imagine what Brady would do with AJ.

I think my list would look something like this:

1. Montana: epitomized the "IT" factor.
2. Elway: everything you could ask for in a QB: lazer arm, great scrambler, and great leader.
3. Brady: all the reasons I gave above.
4. Marino: probably the best pure passer in NFL history, but the lack of a Super Bowl win could make me remove him for someone else
5. Favre: only won 1 Super Bowl but he is a true leader, has a great arm, and is the ultimate iron man.

I could probably be swayed to take off either Marino or Favre for one of these guys that barely missed the list: Staubach, Aikman, Manning, Bradshaw, Steve Young (people forget just how good and accurate he was), and maybe a few others I am forgetting to mention.

Good conversation guys. Very fun topic.

 

[TimeKiller]

Still got Manning as the best QB of the modern era. As far as I can tell he made 1 mistake this year. 1.

 

[WWJD]

I'll still take Peyton.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Staubach is always under-appreciated, IMO. But dude was clutch and had some of the greatest scrambling abilities next to Tarkenton. Folks like to ramble on about "running QBs" these days, but the difference is that the old guys would scramble behind the LOS until they found an open receiver. These current "running QBs" don't seem to have the patience or eye for it, or they are just selfish and start running before a receiver gets loose. IIRC, didn't Staubach win two out of four SBs? Only stopped by one of the greatest teams of all time (which we know all about).

Brady not in top 5, 'eh? Wow. Look earlier in this thread for some of his accomplishments. I would easily put him up there with Elway, Staubach, Aikman, or any other multiple SB winners not named Montana.

Love Staubach, of course, and one of the things about those lost SBs..they were still great games vs great teams. I mean SB XIII, the Jackie Smith game, is still one of my favorite SBs of all time and my team lost..lol

Well I would have Staubach, Montana, Elway, Marino and Manning before him and possibly some others not having thought of it extensively. If rings become the discussion then you have to consider guys like Aikman and Bradshaw. I think Brady is much better than Bradshaw, Aikman not so sure. Aikman wasn't a stat geek but damn he could throw a pretty and accurate ball and it seemed like the better the competition the more he upped his game. Do you think Marino in his prime could have done as well with those Patriot games or vice versa?

That is one thing I tell people all the time that dump on Aikman. At one point he had the highest completion percentage for total playoffs. I think he may be tied for 3rd now. With a line and RB you still have to deliver a ball and he basically put it in guys hands all game.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Sort of a surprising finding.......As great as he may have performed during regular season games, where it really counts, Manning has managed a less than stellar .500 record in the playoffs.

Playoff Record as Starting QB:
1999 (0-1)
2000 (0-1)
2002 (0-1)
2003 (2-1)
2004 (1-1)
2005 (0-1)
2006 (4-0)
2007 (0-1)
2008 (0-1)
2009 (2-1)

 

[Double Barrel]

Still got Manning as the best QB of the modern era. As far as I can tell he made 1 mistake this year. 1.

I'll still take Peyton.

hmmmm...interesting....and then there's this:

Sort of a surprising finding.......As great as he may have performed during regular season games, where it really counts, Manning has managed a less than stellar .500 record in the playoffs.

Playoff Record as Starting QB:
1999 (0-1)
2000 (0-1)
2002 (0-1)
2003 (2-1)
2004 (1-1)
2005 (0-1)
2006 (4-0)
2007 (0-1)
2008 (0-1)
2009 (2-1)

Manning may have made one mistake this season (debatable), but it was one of the most EPIC mistakes that a HoF QB could ever make. Game on the line, behind by 7, driving to put a TD on the scoreboard for a tie, INTERCEPTION, RUN BACK, TOUCHDOWN! His team is now down by 14.

And let's not forget that Manning could not punch it in with 4 attempts within the 5 yard line at the end of the game. That's just not clutch, which is clearly one of the attributes of the many great QBs mentioned above.

If Manning is going to get all the credit for being the offensive coordinator on the field, then he's got to accept responsibility for the pick 6 and failure to score in in the red zone when his team needed it the most. He can't have it both ways.

 

[infantrycak]

If Manning is going to get all the credit for being the offensive coordinator on the field, then he's got to accept responsibility for the pick 6 and failure to score in in the red zone when his team needed it the most. He can't have it both ways.

Very true.

It's funny. There were a lot of folks who didn't think Aikman even deserved to get into the hall of fame and certainly he is rarely in these GOAT discussions. He started his playoff career with a 10-1 record.

 

[Double Barrel]

Very true.

It's funny. There were a lot of folks who didn't think Aikman even deserved to get into the hall of fame and certainly he is rarely in these GOAT discussions. He started his playoff career with a 10-1 record.

If someone can objectively look at Aikman's career and all that it encompasses, he can easily be in the top 5 contenders for GOAT. Dude was a leader, was clutch, and never lost an NFL championship game.

It's crazy to think that folks would even try to argue against inducting him into the HoF. I've always thought it was a no-brainer.

I always respected him, even when I rooted against him. Sort of like Manning these days.

 

[Texecutioner]

If someone can objectively look at Aikman's career and all that it encompasses, he can easily be in the top 5 contenders for GOAT. Dude was a leader, was clutch, and never lost an NFL championship game.

It's crazy to think that folks would even try to argue against inducting him into the HoF. I've always thought it was a no-brainer.

I always respected him, even when I rooted against him. Sort of like Manning these days.

Sorry, but I can't put Aikman in the discussion of top 5. No way. Not over the competition in the top 5. Top 10 is fine though, and I'd probably have him in there somewhere, but a top 5 in no particular order to me should consist of

Brady
Montana
Manning
Favre
Elway
Marino
Unitites

I think you could switch these guys around in number of ways, but I couldn't put Aikman over any of these guys.

 

[Ckw]

Sorry, but I can't put Aikman in the discussion of top 5. No way. Not over the competition in the top 5. Top 10 is fine though, and I'd probably have him in there somewhere, but a top 5 in no particular order to me should consist of

Brady
Montana
Manning
Favre
Elway
Marino
Unitites

I think you could switch these guys around in number of ways, but I couldn't put Aikman over any of these guys.

Agreed. I don't think I would put Aikman in the top 5 but he is certainly worthy of top 10.

Maybe this was discussed earlier, but I think in any discussion like this you have to have some parameters. How far back do you go for the discussion? What is a fair comparison? Should guys like Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh enter the discussion? If not, what is the fair cutoff? It is only at that point that we can even begin outlining who the greatest QB is of this generation.

If someone can objectively look at Aikman's career and all that it encompasses, he can easily be in the top 5 contenders for GOAT. Dude was a leader, was clutch, and never lost an NFL championship game.

It's crazy to think that folks would even try to argue against inducting him into the HoF. I've always thought it was a no-brainer.

I always respected him, even when I rooted against him. Sort of like Manning these days.

You'd have to be just a blind Cowboy hater to think that Aikman was not HOF worthy. Hell, people are talking about Kurt Warner being a HOF QB (and I tend to agree) but as good as Warner has been in the playoffs, Aikman was even better.

 

[JPPT1974]

Well he is and he did win one Super Bowl look at it this way!

 

[HOU-TEX]

Sorry, but I can't put Aikman in the discussion of top 5. No way. Not over the competition in the top 5. Top 10 is fine though, and I'd probably have him in there somewhere, but a top 5 in no particular order to me should consist of

Brady
Montana
Manning
Favre
Elway
Marino
Unitites

I think you could switch these guys around in number of ways, but I couldn't put Aikman over any of these guys.

Are unitites similar to unitards? Har har

 

[eriadoc]

.... but the GOAT discussion should really involve football in the modern (1970s or so and on) era.

Wouldn't that just be GOME (Greatest Of Modern Era) then? You can't assign a GOAT because of the reasons you cite, but you also can't call something "All-Time" if you're only including the Super Bowl era.

By the way, IIRC, Otto Graham was over 6' and about 200 lbs. So yeah, maybe not as big as today's QBs, but probably as big as many QBs in the Super Bowl era. I don't believe Sammy Baugh was a small guy, either. As for your comment about taking Manning or Brady back to those days, make sure you feed them the same stuff those players ate, take away all the high tech supplements, and give them the same fitness regimens.

 

[Ckw]

Wouldn't that just be GOME (Greatest Of Modern Era) then? You can't assign a GOAT because of the reasons you cite, but you also can't call something "All-Time" if you're only including the Super Bowl era.

By the way, IIRC, Otto Graham was over 6' and about 200 lbs. So yeah, maybe not as big as today's QBs, but probably as big as many QBs in the Super Bowl era. I don't believe Sammy Baugh was a small guy, either. As for your comment about taking Manning or Brady back to those days, make sure you feed them the same stuff those players ate, take away all the high tech supplements, and give them the same fitness regimens.

Decent points but in my opinion, the game is so different now than it was then that it simply is ridiculous to even make comparisons. I almost look at it like two entirely different games. We don't make comparisons of college and pro athletics or the NFL and Arena Football, and I am of the opinion that we shouldn't make comparisons of modern football and "pre-Super Bowl" football.

Just the simple lack of black athletes in "pre-Super Bowl" football makes it a ridiculous comparison. Sure there were some, but nowhere near the percentage we have today. I only bring this up because most of the most dominant athletes in football in the modern era have been black athletes, and guys like Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh really didn't have to compete with them much if at all.

 

[Dutchrudder]

Here's an article discussing each decade's best QB's, which may help shed some more light on the subject:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=3199634

The writer has Peyton as the best of the 2000's decade, and Brady is #2. Then Favre, McNabb and McNair.

Personally, I would take Brady over Manning in a head-to-head matchup, but I'd be happy with either one on my team.

 

[Ckw]

Here's an article discussing each decade's best QB's, which may help shed some more light on the subject:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeff&id=3199634

The writer has Peyton as the best of the 2000's decade, and Brady is #2. Then Favre, McNabb and McNair.

Personally, I would take Brady over Manning in a head-to-head matchup, but I'd be happy with either one on my team.

Nice article. Rep your way. I like the way he broke it up by decade and if you read the intro to each decade, the author describes how how much things changed for the NFL in the 70s. There were so many factors that pro football was essentially an entirely different game than it had been in years past.

 

[eriadoc]

Decent points but in my opinion, the game is so different now than it was then that it simply is ridiculous to even make comparisons. I almost look at it like two entirely different games.

I actually agree with you for the most part, but I think you're overstating it a bit. My only point was that it's not possible to call someone the "Greatest Of All Time" if you're excluding All Times Before XYZ.

 

[infantrycak]

I actually agree with you for the most part, but I think you're overstating it a bit. My only point was that it's not possible to call someone the "Greatest Of All Time" if you're excluding All Times Before XYZ.

Totally logical point. Maybe that is why I tend to lean to transition players like Staubach and Montana. I think they could have been great in any era. I'm not sure Manning excels with Deacon Jones head slapping his OL and DBs bumping his WRs all down the field. Maybe.

 

[GP]

Peyton Manning is the greatest anus of all time.

I know that's childish, but he's easily becoming Jim Kelly in my book. I just want his wobbly-knee'd, Houston-killing butt to go away.

But I thank Jim Kelly for his service to the Houston Gamblers.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Totally logical point. Maybe that is why I tend to lean to transition players like Staubach and Montana. I think they could have been great in any era. I'm not sure Manning excels with Deacon Jones head slapping his OL and DBs bumping his WRs all down the field. Maybe.

That would be sweet. Manning would be yanking the referee's pants down by begging for flags after every play.

I wonder what Peyton's reaction would be to Ronnie Lott going all 'Ronnie Lott' on Clark and Wayne's asses.

 

[Ckw]

I actually agree with you for the most part, but I think you're overstating it a bit. My only point was that it's not possible to call someone the "Greatest Of All Time" if you're excluding All Times Before XYZ.

Totally logical point. Maybe that is why I tend to lean to transition players like Staubach and Montana. I think they could have been great in any era. I'm not sure Manning excels with Deacon Jones head slapping his OL and DBs bumping his WRs all down the field. Maybe.

Good points, but cak's post is why I consider the two eras to essentially be two entirely different games. The rules were different and what was required out of the position was different. There are just so many differing factors that I am of the opinion it is pointless to even compare them.

 

[Double Barrel]

Totally logical point. Maybe that is why I tend to lean to transition players like Staubach and Montana. I think they could have been great in any era. I'm not sure Manning excels with Deacon Jones head slapping his OL and DBs bumping his WRs all down the field. Maybe.

By the same token, I wonder how effective Deacon Jones would be in today's NFL without his patented head slap and against offensive linemen whose average weight is 300+ lbs. In the 1960s the average NFL lineman weighed slightly over 243 pounds.

My own take is that he'd still be a player, just like Manning if he were in the 1950s, but how good is a matter of speculation.

Good points, but cak's post is why I consider the two eras to essentially be two entirely different games. The rules were different and what was required out of the position was different. There are just so many differing factors that I am of the opinion it is pointless to even compare them.

I tend to agree with your point. The simple fact that blacks were not allowed to play for many years, and even after that, it was a very small quota that was allowed to play. Obviously, the best of the best could not be qualified when a segment of the population was prevented from even trying to play.

I don't think yesterday's QBs (those up to the 1960s) can really compare to what QBs do today. I've watched a lot of old game film, and those QBs just didn't have the finesse of today's QBs, much less the variety of defenses and speed that has increased tremendously among defensive players. I think some would translate - the greats like Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh - but to what extent is speculative.

I do think running backs translate, though. Jim Brown would be a badass today just like he was in the late 50's/early 60's.