Broncos Fans' Take on the Texans and Kubiak

[thunderkyss]

This sounds like a question the eye doctor would ask.

We've gotten THREE games better, over a FOUR YEAR PERIOD.
Whoopee Do.

Bring on 2010.

Is that the only way you can quantify a teams performance?

I know that's "all that really matters" & if that's all you got to go by, I can really understand your disappointment.

If you knew then, what you know now...... the thing about Kubiak's play calling.... his reluctance to sit old running backs.. our declining record against divisional opponents...

surely you wouldn't be so upset... You would have been expecting another 8-8 season since Sept 13th.

Lesson learned. Let's not get our hopes up about next season. As a matter of fact, since you already know the outcome of next season, is there any point in watching?

 

[DexmanC]

No, four years of Kubiak has us SEVEN games better.

The last THREE seasons has gotten us ONE game better. I wasn't gonna
go there, but damn.

 

[DexmanC]

Is that the only way you can quantify a teams performance?

I know that's "all that really matters" & if that's all you got to go by, I can really understand your disappointment.

If you knew then, what you know now...... the thing about Kubiak's play calling.... his reluctance to sit old running backs.. our declining record against divisional opponents...

surely you wouldn't be so upset... You would have been expecting another 8-8 season since Sept 13th.

Lesson learned. Let's not get our hopes up about next season. As a matter of fact, since you already know the outcome of next season, is there any point in watching?

It's the standard the rest of the league, save Detroit and Oakland, measures
itself by. Hell. Even the Seahawks cleaned house after coming up so short.
Pittsburgh didn't throw a champagne party after their final regular season,
either. The took the season for what it was, 9-7 and no playoffs. They
were disappointed at the way they finished, and looked forward to the
next year. I didn't see them tossing around gameballs and looking at
9-7 like a monumental achievement.

I'm not being negative, just accurate. I'm not going to go as far as you,
and "lower my expectations." They will REMAIN high, until this team is
a champion. You'd better get used to it.

 

[infantrycak]

Pittsburgh didn't throw a champagne party after their final regular season,
either. The took the season for what it was, 9-7 and no playoffs. They
were disappointed at the way they finished, and looked forward to the
next year. I didn't see them tossing around gameballs and looking at
9-7 like a monumental achievement.

I'm not being negative, just accurate. I'm not going to go as far as you,
and "lower my expectations." They will REMAIN high, until this team is
a champion. You'd better get used to it.

Accurate? - how about completely unable to analyze. The Steelers weren't celebrating 9-7 because they were the first Super Bowl champion to not make it to the playoffs the next year in how long?

1st winning season v. failed to return to the playoffs after a SB win. Yup that's pretty analogous - not.

 

[thunderkyss]

Accurate? - how about completely unable to analyze. The Steelers weren't celebrating 9-7 because they were the first Super Bowl champion to not make it to the playoffs the next year in how long?

1st winning season v. failed to return to the playoffs after a SB win. Yup that's pretty analogous - not.

Not only that, but since we won, and Baltimore won.... they had no chance of getting into the play-offs.

 

[thunderkyss]

It's the standard the rest of the league, save Detroit and Oakland, measures
itself by.

Ok.. Denver. Is the 2009 Broncos better or worse than the 2008 Broncos?

NYJ... is Rex Ryans 9-7 Jets better or worse than Mangini's Farve powered 9-7 Jets?

Explain.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

It's the standard the rest of the league, save Detroit and Oakland, measures
itself by. Hell. Even the Seahawks cleaned house after coming up so short.
Pittsburgh didn't throw a champagne party after their final regular season,
either. The took the season for what it was, 9-7 and no playoffs. They
were disappointed at the way they finished, and looked forward to the
next year. I didn't see them tossing around gameballs and looking at
9-7 like a monumental achievement.

I'm not being negative, just accurate. I'm not going to go as far as you,
and "lower my expectations." They will REMAIN high, until this team is
a champion. You'd better get used to it.

Did you see the clips of the Steelers after they won their game? Those guys were psyched that they had won. They were psyched that they still had a shot at the playoffs. Mike Tomlin was all "This is the bed we made, and I like the way we're laying in it." He said that after the last two victories even though they had less of a shot at the playoffs than we did.

It has nothing to do with 9-7 or 10-6 or even 8-8. It's got to do with being in the hunt. Last year, our 8-8 was nothing because we'd have had to have been 11-5 or better to even be in the hunt. (Even though 8-8 was good enough for the Chargers to win their division.) The year before that, we would have had to have been 10-6 to be in the running. So our 8-8 didn't get us close to the playoffs.

The AFC did not dominate the NFC as much and some teams fell back to the pack and 9-7 was the mark this year. And we hit that mark. We were 1 team away from the playoffs. And at the time we won, we'd done everything we could do.

If you're going to castigate someone for celebrating winning and keeping their hopes alive for the playoffs, then you've blinded yourself to the good parts of the game. If you don't think a team is improving even though all the statistics related to that are improving because the only important statistic are W's and L's, then in my estimation, you're not understanding the ebb and flow of the league. At the beginning of this season, some people were saying that the Texans were going to win 10 games but it wasn't going to be enough to get into the playoffs because the Patriots had missed out even though they won 11 last year. Every year is a different story and the distribution of wins and losses is different. Another team could get into the playoffs with an 8-8 record next year and they might not even need to be the winner of a weak division to do it. That's part of the beauty of this game.

 

[DexmanC]

Thanks for your non-responsive post. Frankly your absurd non-responsive post as if winning a game means it wasn't tough. That's laughable.

I'm not saying the games weren't tough. I'm just saying in regards to their
season, they had no negative effect. What's inaccurate about that statement?

 

[Hagar]

Did anyone get a different feeling between our two boards? I read the first two pages of the Bronco's board and found this thread to be much more ..... gentile; or that's the best word I can think of right now. Maybe its me, but we can get a little punchy around here sometimes.

I don't think either board is better; I just thought the diffence was interesting.

 

[DexmanC]

Ok.. Denver. Is the 2009 Broncos better or worse than the 2008 Broncos?

NYJ... is Rex Ryans 9-7 Jets better or worse than Mangini's Farve powered 9-7 Jets?

Explain.

The Broncos aren't celebrating their season, nor should they.
I'm sure they're taking inventory and are thinking about what they can
do to turn their teaminto a winner. Rex Ryan's Jets won games down
the stretch, when they had control of their playoff destiny. And now they find
themselves playing for an AFC Championship, minus their best
defensive player <Jenkins> and a rookie quarterback. I'd say, "Job well done, Jets."

Belichick says: "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners. That's
really what it's all about."

That's what he bases success on, and our squad should do the same. We're
giddy about top-5 offenses and top 15 defenses, but we have no playoff
appearances ever. Texans marketing threw out the line "Playoffs or Bust."
The OWNER said "anything less than the playoffs would be unacceptable."
Now, they're trying to sell us on not achieving the goal. I'm not buying.
Get back in there, and make those playoffs. No more excuses.

What's wrong with taking a hard line, and holding people accountable? Why
do we continue to whine about "how hard our division is?" I know what
this team's capable of, and I also know that making excuses for
underachieving doesn't lead you to the postseason.

 

[Norg]

Who says we cant Run Over Philly and NY giants next year has well has the redskins all these teams might implode

 

[Carr Bombed]

Who says we cant Run Over Philly and NY giants next year has well has the redskins all these teams might implode

The Giants were not the same team after Phillips and Eli got hurt.......with Both healthy I expect NY to be closer to the team that started off 5-0

As far as Philly goes...I think they're on the decline (they miss the safety play of someone like Dawkins and the coaching of a Jim Johnson), but they still scare the hell out of me with their team speed...especially DeSean Jackson. That guy can flat out single handedly change games. Jeremy Maclin will be a better player next year as well. Philly was really young and inexperienced this year.

The Redskins....well, I'm going to have to see what they do in the draft, but they do have a very good defense and honestly I don't feel comfortable about facing them after so many of our coaches went over there. They are going to know our game plan inside and out. Those are never fun games.

EXHIBIT A

 

[houstonspartan]

We can argue about the scheduling, luck, etc...all day but what we should all be able to agree on is that this team, if it has a good off-season, is in position with its talent to win a lot of football games.

Fact: Texans won 9 games last season
Fact: Texans had a winning record on the road.
Fact: The Texans only lost one game by more than 1 score all season and that was in week 1.
Fact: Texans are the youngest team in the NFL.
Fact: Texans only have 3 UFAs and they can use 2 Tags this year.

Given all that, I think expectations should be very high. I think most of the pink soapers think this team has enough talent to make the playoffs. Most of us in the sunshine club would certainly agree with that. So, perhaps we can meet on common ground as we start the off-season. Then, we can pickup the fight about Kubiak's game management when there is another game to manage. What do you'll think?

Fact: Your comment is bullshit.
Fact: Our HOME record sucked this year. How does that happen in the NFL?
Fact: Season ticket holders like myself didn't see a lot of wins on Kirby Drive.
Fact: The "young team" thing is crap. At some point, we have to perform.
Fact: 1-5 in the division.
Fact: Sean Payton.
Fact: Rex Ryan.
Fact: Your comment is bullshit.

Any questions?

 

[dalemurphy]

Fact: Your comment is bullshit.
Fact: Our HOME record sucked this year. How does that happen in the NFL?
Fact: Season ticket holders like myself didn't see a lot of wins on Kirby Drive.
Fact: The "young team" thing is crap. At some point, we have to perform.
Fact: 1-5 in the division.
Fact: Sean Payton.
Fact: Rex Ryan.
Fact: Your comment is bullshit.

Any questions?

I don't know. Perhaps you can ask a member of the Superbowl Champion 2007 NYGiants whose home record was worse.

I would really hate to be you. I'm assuming you watch football for entertainment, right? If this is your attitude towards fun, you must be a real pleasure to work with!!

NO Saints' record in 2007 = 8 - 8
NO Saints' record in 2008 = 7 - 9

By the way, Rex Ryan led his team to the identical record as the Texans. And, to do that, he needed the Indianapolis Colts to pull their starters at halftime of week #16. And, since W/L are the only thing that matters to you, it's worth noting that the team he took over had an identical record last year under Eric Mangini. Therefore, I guess Eric Mangini must be as good of a coach as Rex Ryan, right?

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

Fact: Your comment is bullshit.
Fact: Our HOME record sucked this year. How does that happen in the NFL?
Fact: Season ticket holders like myself didn't see a lot of wins on Kirby Drive.
Fact: The "young team" thing is crap. At some point, we have to perform.
Fact: 1-5 in the division.
Fact: Sean Payton.
Fact: Rex Ryan.
Fact: Your comment is bullshit.

Any questions?

What's this all about? You seem to have anger ptoblems. I'm assuming we all care about this team and and enjoy watching them. There isn't anything we can do about this past season so why don't we all chill and take a deep breath. Stop attacking one another.

 

[thunderkyss]

The Broncos aren't celebrating their season, nor should they.

That's fine, I can understand that. My question to you, is if this year's 8-8 team is any better or any worse than last years 8-8 team?

Rex Ryan's Jets won games down
the stretch, when they had control of their playoff destiny.

So they have a better coach. Is 2009 Jets team better than the 2008 team?

We're
giddy about top-5 offenses and top 15 defenses, but we have no playoff
appearances ever.

Giddy is a strong word. We are all disappointed that we are not in the play-offs. That should be obvious. Top-5 offense, top 15 defense, and all that other stuff has us optomistic about next year. They are metrics that tell us we are going in the right direction.

We aren't ignoring other metrics, like the W-L, or the division record. Those tell us there are reasons for concern.

Texans marketing threw out the line "Playoffs or Bust."
The OWNER said "anything less than the playoffs would be unacceptable."
Now, they're trying to sell us on not achieving the goal. I'm not buying.

I'm not getting that.... that they are trying to "sell us on achieving the goal" McNair said he was disappointed, Kubiak said he was disappointed. Schaub.. disappointed.. If you've got a link to a Texans publication saying, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" please share.

What's wrong with taking a hard line, and holding people accountable?

Who isn't taking a hard line? Who isn't being held accountable? Do you think we should pull our players from the Pro Bowl because we didn't make the play-offs?

Just because GK didn't get fired doesn't mean he's getting a pass on last season.

Why
do we continue to whine about "how hard our division is?"

Who's whining? The only Whining I've heard is from you, about how poorly we did. You want heads to roll, & I guess that's the reason you're so pissy, because heads did not roll.

I know what
this team's capable of, and I also know that making excuses for
underachieving doesn't lead you to the postseason.

We lost because Gary Kubiak is a bad coach.

Is that an excuse, or a reason?

We lost because our players choked.

Is that an excuse, or a reason?

We lost because Gary Kubiak made coaching mistakes and our players choked?

Excuse or reason?

I think most reasonable fans are in the same place, understanding it was a combination of things that kept us out of the play-offs, a combination of things that prevented our W-L to reflect the talent on this team.

Doesn't change the fact that this is a good team. Doesn't change the fact that Gary did a very good job with this talent.

The only difference, is that some are satisfied with, or at least understand the way McNair is handling the situation, and some of us are not.

We're talking about spilled milk here.

 

[Texan_Bill]

What's this all about? You seem to have anger ptoblems. I'm assuming we all care about this team and and enjoy watching them. There isn't anything we can do about this past season so why don't we all chill and take a deep breath. Stop attacking one another.

There's a handfull of posters that seem to think that if they post something with enough vitriol and flame enough people, it makes their posts true - no matter how full of crap they are.

 

[thunderkyss]

Who says we cant Run Over Philly and NY giants next year has well has the redskins all these teams might implode

I agree. I think that's the biggest fallacy fans make, when trying to predict what's going to happen next year. Using the previous seasons W-L, which doesn't even tell half the story.

The Giants were not the same team after Phillips and Eli got hurt.......with Both healthy I expect NY to be closer to the team that started off 5-0

As far as Philly goes...I think they're on the decline (they miss the safety play of someone like Dawkins and the coaching of a Jim Johnson), but they still scare the hell out of me with their team speed...especially DeSean Jackson. That guy can flat out single handedly change games. Jeremy Maclin will be a better player next year as well. Philly was really young and inexperienced this year.

The Redskins....well, I'm going to have to see what they do in the draft, but they do have a very good defense and honestly I don't feel comfortable about facing them after so many of our coaches went over there. There are going to know our game plan inside and out. Those are never fun games.

EXHIBIT A

Good post Bomb. I wish more fans used actual game/team analysis to discuss the direction our team is going. If a person didn't have a good grasp on the game, they are likely to be disproportionally disappointed at the end of the year, if their team didn't get into the play-offs, or win 16 games.

 

[thunderkyss]

Fact: Sean Payton.
Fact: Rex Ryan.

Any questions?

Fact:

It's ridiculous to look at those teams and compare them to the Texans.

Here is a link to the Saints Roster in 2006

Here is a link to the Jets 2008 Roster

First, just the talent difference between those teams, and the team Kubiak took over. I can't find a link to our 2006 roster, but you know who was there. But there is no comparison. Things would be totally different, if Kubiak took over a team like the 2006 Saints, or the 2009 Jets.

Secondly, look at how long those players had been members of those teams. There are guys on that 2006 roster that had been playing together twice as long as the Texans have been a franchise.

I know it sounds like an excuse... but I'm just saying you're comparing Apples and Oranges.

It would be foolish to expect a coach... Holmgren, Cowher, Shanahan, you name it to go in & make the Detroit Lions a contender in 4 years. I use the Lions, because the consensus was that we were in a worse starting position than they were in 2002... and all Capers did was waste time, we had 2 bona fide starters on the team Kubiak took over.

2

Payton added a QB on offense, and 3 LBs on defense.

Rex Ryan added a QB an Wide Receiver.

 

[DeMarCushPoll]

Fact: Your comment is bullshit.
Fact: Our HOME record sucked this year. How does that happen in the NFL?
Fact: Season ticket holders like myself didn't see a lot of wins on Kirby Drive.
Fact: The "young team" thing is crap. At some point, we have to perform.
Fact: 1-5 in the division.
Fact: Sean Payton.
Fact: Rex Ryan.
Fact: Your comment is bullshit.

Any questions?

Fact: To say someone's comment is bullshit is not a fact, it's an opinion and not a very good one IMO.

 

[JB]

Rex Ryan added a QB an Wide Receiver.

And a pretty good LB in Scott

 

[DexmanC]

2006 was a long time ago. We've been stuck in neutral for 3 years now.
Our 2007 squad was an 8-8 team.
Our 2008 squad was an 8-8 team.

The best we can improve is one game in 3 years?

You'd rather a team settle for the security of reaching 8-8, and chastise
one for taking the risks necessary to make yourself a champion.

If you think I'm being negative, you're welcome to that opinion. I'm clearly on
record, that this regime must go if there's no playoff appearance in 2010. Every
coach that has as much tenure as this head coach does, has made the playoffs
at least once. I don't think that's TOO MUCH to ask a 5th year coach, lame duck
or not. He's lame duck for the appropriate reason. He chose to put sub-par
coaches in important positions early in his tenure. Now,
he must lie in the bed he made.

No playoffs in 2010, you're gone. No excuses. Whatsoever.

Are you willing to state, unequivocally, the same?

Is the door open for excuses in 2010?

"Explain."

 

[Texan_Bill]

Do some of you people even know the definition of "lame duck"?

 

[DexmanC]

Do some of you people even know the definition of "lame duck"?

This board is perused by those in search of knowledge. Please bestow
your great wisdom upon us, Kemo-Sabi. By the prose in which you've
so eloquently stated your inquiry, there's obviously a level of intelligence
most of us could only DREAM of possessing.

So, I'd like an answer to your question.
In English and Spanish please.

Por favor, si tengas una manera de relatar lo que quiere decir tu pregunta
a nosostros, ser&#237;as un hombre muy amable y capaz. No tenemos la habilidad
de decifrar la frase sin la Piedra de Roseta.

Seg&#250;n contestarme, yo te dar&#237;a mis agradecimientos.



It's a messageboard, dude. Lighten up. Let's laugh a lil bit.

 

[Texan_Bill]

This board is perused by those in search of knowledge. Please bestow
your great wisdom upon us, Kemo-Sabi. By the prose in which you've
so eloquently stated your inquiry, there's obviously a level of intelligence
most of us could only DREAM of possessing.

So, I'd like an answer to your question.
In English and Spanish please.

Por favor, si tengas una manera de relatar lo que quiere decir tu pregunta
a nosostros, ser&#237;as un hombre muy amable y capaz. No tenemos la habilidad
de decifrar la frase sin la Piedra de Roseta.

Seg&#250;n contestarme, yo te dar&#237;a mis agradecimientos.



It's a messageboard, dude. Lighten up. Let's laugh a lil bit.

The expression “lame duck” comes from politics. It’s where an incumbent loses their bid at re-election and merely finishes out their term. It can be used in other facets of life such as the Oilers final season in Houston. It was already determined prior to the start of the season that they were leaving after that, therefore it was a “lame duck” season.

In this case (using Kubiak), he is not a lame duck because as of right now we don’t know if this is his final season or if he’s going to be here for the next ten seasons.

******************************

La expresi&#243;n "pato cojo" viene de la pol&#237;tica. &#201;l es d&#243;nde un titular pierde su oferta en la reelecci&#243;n y simplemente termina su per&#237;odo.Se puede utilizar en otras facetas de la vida, como la temporada final de petroleros en Houston. Ya se determin&#243; hasta el comienzo de la temporada que ellos estaban dejando Despu&#233;s de eso, por lo tanto fue una temporada de "pato cojo".

En este caso (usando Kubiak), no es un pato cojo porque como de ahora que no sabemos si se trata de su &#250;ltima temporada o si va a estar aqu&#237; para las temporadas siguientes diez.

*EDIT*
And my other post wasn't just directed at Dex... There have been others that referred to Kubiak as a lame duck coach, too.

 

[DeMarCushPoll]

2006 was a long time ago. We've been stuck in neutral for 3 years now.
Our 2007 squad was an 8-8 team.
Our 2008 squad was an 8-8 team.

The best we can improve is one game in 3 years?

You'd rather a team settle for the security of reaching 8-8, and chastise
one for taking the risks necessary to make yourself a champion.

If you think I'm being negative, you're welcome to that opinion. I'm clearly on
record, that this regime must go if there's no playoff appearance in 2010. Every
coach that has as much tenure as this head coach does, has made the playoffs
at least once. I don't think that's TOO MUCH to ask a 5th year coach, lame duck
or not. He's lame duck for the appropriate reason. He chose to put sub-par
coaches in important positions early in his tenure. Now,
he must lie in the bed he made.

No playoffs in 2010, you're gone. No excuses. Whatsoever.

Are you willing to state, unequivocally, the same?

Is the door open for excuses in 2010?

"Explain."

I agree with part of what you're saying. If this team goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs again then I'd say yes it's time for a change. But what if they go 11-5 and miss the playoffs like NE did in 2008? What then? How can you fire a coaching staff after going 11-5? I couldn't. Also, I know the record doesn't necessarily reflect it, but I think this team has clearly improved each of the last four years.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Fact:

It's ridiculous to look at those teams and compare them to the Texans.

Here is a link to the Saints Roster in 2006

Here is a link to the Jets 2008 Roster

First, just the talent difference between those teams, and the team Kubiak took over. I can't find a link to our 2006 roster, but you know who was there. But there is no comparison. Things would be totally different, if Kubiak took over a team like the 2006 Saints, or the 2009 Jets.

Secondly, look at how long those players had been members of those teams. There are guys on that 2006 roster that had been playing together twice as long as the Texans have been a franchise.

I know it sounds like an excuse... but I'm just saying you're comparing Apples and Oranges.

It would be foolish to expect a coach... Holmgren, Cowher, Shanahan, you name it to go in & make the Detroit Lions a contender in 4 years. I use the Lions, because the consensus was that we were in a worse starting position than they were in 2002... and all Capers did was waste time, we had 2 bona fide starters on the team Kubiak took over.

2

Payton added a QB on offense, and 3 LBs on defense.

Rex Ryan added a QB an Wide Receiver.

Playing Devils Advocate here for fun...but he could have named Mike Smith and Tony Sparano. Woeful teams. Atlanta had the Vick issues too. They went to the playoffs quick. Atlanta came back a little bit this year but they had horrible injury issues at top positions. Miami was tough but not enough this year. But they did make a huge jump without alot of talent when they had almost no wins.

Let's all agree on one thing.. we are past the excuse section of this test. Other teams have risen up quicker. Other teams have failed also or had more talent to start. But right now, it comes down to next season

 

[DeMarCushPoll]

The expression “lame duck” comes from politics. It’s where an incumbent loses their bid at re-election and merely finishes out their term. It can be used in other facets of life such as the Oilers final season in Houston. It was already determined prior to the start of the season that they were leaving after that, therefore it was a “lame duck” season.

In this case (using Kubiak), he is not a lame duck because as of right now we don’t know if this is his final season or if he’s going to be here for the next ten seasons.

******************************

La expresión "pato cojo" viene de la política. Él es dónde un titular pierde su oferta en la reelección y simplemente termina su período.Se puede utilizar en otras facetas de la vida, como la temporada final de petroleros en Houston. Ya se determinó hasta el comienzo de la temporada que ellos estaban dejando Después de eso, por lo tanto fue una temporada de "pato cojo".

En este caso (usando Kubiak), no es un pato cojo porque como de ahora que no sabemos si se trata de su última temporada o si va a estar aquí para las temporadas siguientes diez.

*EDIT*
And my other post wasn't just directed at Dex... There have been others that referred to Kubiak as a lame duck coach, too.

Awesome

 

[Texan_Bill]

Playing Devils Advocate here for fun...but he could have names Mike Smith and Tony Sparano. Woeful teams. Atlanta had the Vick issues too. They went to the playoffs quick. Atlanta came back a little bit this year but they had horrible injury issues at top positions. Miami was tough but not enough this year. But they did make a huge jump without alot of talent when they had almost no wins.

Let's all agree on one thing.. we are past the excuse section of this test. Other teams have risen up quicker. Other teams have failed also or had more talent to start. But right now, it comes down to next season

2 big "buts" in this post, disqualifies it....

 

[HOU-TEX]

This board is perused by those in search of knowledge. Please bestow
your great wisdom upon us, Kemo-Sabi. By the prose in which you've
so eloquently stated your inquiry, there's obviously a level of intelligence
most of us could only DREAM of possessing.

So, I'd like an answer to your question.
In English and Spanish please.

Por favor, si tengas una manera de relatar lo que quiere decir tu pregunta
a nosostros, serías un hombre muy amable y capaz. No tenemos la habilidad
de decifrar la frase sin la Piedra de Roseta.

Según contestarme, yo te daría mis agradecimientos.



It's a messageboard, dude. Lighten up. Let's laugh a lil bit.

You might want to heed your own advice, my friend. A lot of us are truly disappointed in how the past season went, and I am one of them. But, you've been acting afool since the Jaguars game. I remember you being one of the highest members of the sunshine club then flipped the switch and became just the opposite.

We're all upset, bro. The Texans failed miserably to meet my expectations of the season.

 

[dalemurphy]

No playoffs in 2010, you're gone. No excuses. Whatsoever.

Are you willing to state, unequivocally, the same?

Is the door open for excuses in 2010?

"Explain."

NO. Setting up arbitrary guidelines just doesn't make sense to me. What if Schaub, AJ, Cushing, DRyans all end up on the IR in September and the team finishes 11-5 but misses the playoffs... Most likely, I wouldn't want the coaching staff turned over after that season. There are thousands of other combinations that would lead me to the same conclusion. Also, I can certainly imagine some scenarios where the Texans do make the playoffs but it still becomes clear that a coaching change is needed. For instance, it the team has a season like the Jets or TB did in 2008 and goes something like 9-3 but then loses out to finish 9-7 but backs into the playoffs. Then, in the playoffs, they lay an egg. Most likely, I would conclude it's time for a change.

I get enough of standardized testing in the public school system. Surely, football fans can get away from that kind of silliness

 

[HoustonFrog]

2 big "buts" in this post, disqualifies it....

Still qualifies for the intial jumps.

OT: TB, I started a thread in the NST area. My bro in law shot a commercial with some celebs for Haiti relief. I was looking at shots of other commercials he had done yesterday and saw one for Don't Mess With Texas with JLH. I should have met her..what was he thinking.

Ok, back on topic.

 

[DexmanC]

You might want to heed your own advice, my friend. A lot of us are truly disappointed in how the past season went, and I am one of them. But, you've been acting afool since the Jaguars game. I remember you being one of the highest members of the sunshine club then flipped the switch and became just the opposite.

We're all upset, bro. The Texans failed miserably to meet my expectations of the season.

Forgive me for choosing to use the overwhelming empirical data to search for
the truth. When I'm wrong, and the facts show it, I'M WRONG. I'm man
enough to admit that. From that game forward, I'm stirring the pooding
looking for the proof. I'm not emotionally wound up in last year's
disappointment. I just want the stats and wins to start matching up.
There's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

**********************************************************

Bill. Te dije que yo te dara mis agradecimientos por contestarme en ambos
idiomas. Eres un buen hombre, tambi&#233;n un gran norteamericano. Yo te
agradezco.

Dang, I wish I hadn't waited until age 23 to start learning Spanish. It's such
a beautiful language.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

You might want to heed your own advice, my friend. A lot of us are truly disappointed in how the past season went, and I am one of them. But, you've been acting afool since the Jaguars game. I remember you being one of the highest members of the sunshine club then flipped the switch and became just the opposite.

We're all upset, bro. The Texans failed miserably to meet my expectations of the season.

I think all of us are upset that we didn't make the playoffs. We all thought this team was good enough to be there and do damage once they got there. Hell, they had a good enough record to be in the playoffs.

But, at that point, you've got a choice.

You can look at this from the Half Full side. We've had a winning season for the first time ever. We were in the hunt and playing meaningful games all the way to the last game of the season. Our passing game was one of the most prolific ever. Our defense made some amazing improvement over the course of the year. We've got a lot of things that we need to work on to be a better team next season and the way this team improves every year, there's hope that we'll do that.

Or you can look at this from the Half Empty side. We only got one more win than last year. Our W-L hasn't improved very much over the past 3 years and so we're just running in place and we need to take the next step. We've got a lot more talent on this team and we should have won more. We made a lot of mistakes and gave away a lot of games this year especially in our division and at home. We should have won more games and it's the coach's responsibility to make sure his players win those games.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I think all of us are upset that we didn't make the playoffs. We all thought this team was good enough to be there and do damage once they got there. Hell, they had a good enough record to be in the playoffs.

But, at that point, you've got a choice.

You can look at this from the Half Full side. We've had a winning season for the first time ever. We were in the hunt and playing meaningful games all the way to the last game of the season. Our passing game was one of the most prolific ever. Our defense made some amazing improvement over the course of the year. We've got a lot of things that we need to work on to be a better team next season and the way this team improves every year, there's hope that we'll do that.

Or you can look at this from the Half Empty side. We only got one more win than last year. Our W-L hasn't improved very much over the past 3 years and so we're just running in place and we need to take the next step. We've got a lot more talent on this team and we should have won more. We made a lot of mistakes and gave away a lot of games this year especially in our division and at home. We should have won more games and it's the coach's responsibility to make sure his players win those games.

Well said, PN. I'd consider myself as a little of both, if that's possible. I've said it numerous times, but I just think this season was set up nicely for the Texans to kick the door in to the playoffs. There's plenty of blame to go around as to why the door remained shut and were talkin draft and what if's so I don't want to get into finger pointing. Watching the Wildcard weekend truly pissed me off, seeing both the Jets and Ravens win while reflecting on what SHOULD have been had we taken care of our own business. Ugh!

That said, I'm moving on and my expectations are growing once again as I start looking at the draft and other improvements that need to be done. I'm not satisfied with the 9-7 record considering how we got it, but at the same time, I'm happy we finally aren't considered losers.

 

[houstonspartan]

NO. Setting up arbitrary guidelines just doesn't make sense to me. What if Schaub, AJ, Cushing, DRyans all end up on the IR in September and the team finishes 11-5 but misses the playoffs... Most likely, I wouldn't want the coaching staff turned over after that season. There are thousands of other combinations that would lead me to the same conclusion. Also, I can certainly imagine some scenarios where the Texans do make the playoffs but it still becomes clear that a coaching change is needed. For instance, it the team has a season like the Jets or TB did in 2008 and goes something like 9-3 but then loses out to finish 9-7 but backs into the playoffs. Then, in the playoffs, they lay an egg. Most likely, I would conclude it's time for a change.

I get enough of standardized testing in the public school system. Surely, football fans can get away from that kind of silliness

So, if we don't make the playoffs, Kubiak should stay, but if we DO make the playoffs and lose, he should be fired? I don't understand.

And, it's not "standardized testing" testing to have goals and metrics. I think a playoffs or fired benchmark for Kubiak next near is perfectly fair. Kubiak is the most spoiled, coddled coach in the NFL. There's nothing wrong with making him achieve something every now and then.

 

[DexmanC]

NO. Setting up arbitrary guidelines just doesn't make sense to me. What if Schaub, AJ, Cushing, DRyans all end up on the IR in September and the team finishes 11-5 but misses the playoffs... Most likely, I wouldn't want the coaching staff turned over after that season. There are thousands of other combinations that would lead me to the same conclusion. Also, I can certainly imagine some scenarios where the Texans do make the playoffs but it still becomes clear that a coaching change is needed. For instance, it the team has a season like the Jets or TB did in 2008 and goes something like 9-3 but then loses out to finish 9-7 but backs into the playoffs. Then, in the playoffs, they lay an egg. Most likely, I would conclude it's time for a change.

I get enough of standardized testing in the public school system. Surely, football fans can get away from that kind of silliness

If you're gonna use a "what if" scenario, why wouldn't you use one that's
actually LIKELY to happen. No way the Texans go 11-5 after losing that
many key players. Hell, they had to beat a half-ready Patriots team to win
9 games THIS year, with the bulk of those players healthy.

The scenario you've stated is as likely to happen
as the Detroit Lions winning the NFC North next year. Do you want to
address the question I posed, or not?

If Kubiak does not make the playoffs, in FIVE SEASONS, should he be gone?

It's a simple question. If your answer is "NO," then the follow-up would
be: What has Gary Kubiak done, to merit a sixth season, after never
making the postseason in FIVE?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

If you're gonna use a "what if" scenario, why wouldn't you use one that's
actually LIKELY to happen. No way the Texans go 11-5 after losing that
many key players. Hell, they had to beat a half-ready Patriots team to win
9 games THIS year, with the bulk of those players healthy.

The scenario you've stated is as likely to happen
as the Detroit Lions winning the NFC North next year. Do you want to
address the question I posed, or not?

If Kubiak does not make the playoffs, in FIVE SEASONS, should he be gone?

It's a simple question. If your answer is "NO," then the follow-up would
be: What has Gary Kubiak done, to merit a sixth season, after never
making the postseason in FIVE?

The simple answer is: It depends. I don't think his tenure is entirely about making the playoffs.

If we make the playoffs, Kubes should stay regardless of what our record is.

If we end up with a losing record, Kubiak should go.

If we go 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs, then it depends on how close we were to getting there. If we were just 1 team away from they playoffs again, then I say keep him. If we were totally out of the running the last couple of weeks, then he goes.

If we go 10-6 (or better) and miss the playoffs, Kubiak should stay.

 

[DexmanC]

The simple answer is: It depends. I don't think his tenure is entirely about making the playoffs.

If we make the playoffs, Kubes should stay regardless of what our record is.

If we end up with a losing record, Kubiak should go.

If we go 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs, then it depends on how close we were to getting there. If we were just 1 team away from they playoffs again, then I say keep him. If we were totally out of the running the last couple of weeks, then he goes.

If we go 10-6 (or better) and miss the playoffs, Kubiak should stay.

Thank you for a direct, and well-thought answer to my question.

 

[OzzO]

...Countdown to this thread turning into another Fire Kubiak/Keep Kubiak thread in 3.....2......1......

Good foresight.

 

[thunderkyss]

Playing Devils Advocate here for fun...but he could have named Mike Smith and Tony Sparano. Woeful teams. Atlanta had the Vick issues too. They went to the playoffs quick. Atlanta came back a little bit this year but they had horrible injury issues at top positions. Miami was tough but not enough this year. But they did make a huge jump without alot of talent when they had almost no wins.

I haven't looked, but I would bet it is the same with the Falcons & Dolphins. Both were way more talented than the team Kubiak took over. If it weren't for their coach walking out on the Dolphins mid-season, they would have finished with a better record (I'm going from memory here, do I have my time line right? The coach before Sparano just up & left?)

When Kubiak came, I was a big time homer. Even though I didn't like David Carr, I figured Kubiak could coach him up, and we would roll. I overestimated the talent level of the players on that team. & I say overestimated, for the simple fact of all the players that left, I can't think of one that started on another team, except for Billy Miller. Can the Falcons, Dolphins, Jets & the Saints say the same thing & be in the same ball park with the number of players that have left this team? I don't think so.

Let's all agree on one thing.. we are past the excuse section of this test. Other teams have risen up quicker. Other teams have failed also or had more talent to start. But right now, it comes down to next season

I'll agree, this team is as talented as any team in the NFL. I'll agree our core has been together as long as the avg of the other teams in the league... meaning long enough.

I'll agree if we go 9-7 and miss the play-offs Kubiak needs to go. I'll say that unequivocally right now. If we miss the play-offs because Indy swept us.... he needs to go. If we miss the play-offs because of a poor division record, & by poor, I mean less than .500 in the division, he needs to go.

I'll even go so far as to say if we go 9-7 and make the playoffs, Kubiak needs to go.

 

[dalemurphy]

If you're gonna use a "what if" scenario, why wouldn't you use one that's
actually LIKELY to happen. No way the Texans go 11-5 after losing that
many key players. Hell, they had to beat a half-ready Patriots team to win
9 games THIS year, with the bulk of those players healthy.

The scenario you've stated is as likely to happen
as the Detroit Lions winning the NFC North next year. Do you want to
address the question I posed, or not?

If Kubiak does not make the playoffs, in FIVE SEASONS, should he be gone?

It's a simple question. If your answer is "NO," then the follow-up would
be: What has Gary Kubiak done, to merit a sixth season, after never
making the postseason in FIVE?

This must be what it was like to try and talk about foreign policy with the most recent President George Bush:

Bush- "Are they evil?"

Cabinet member- "sir?"

Bush- "Are they evil?... You know, are they Christians or are they evil?"

Cabinet member- "Sir, the issue is a little more complicated than this. There are so many factors we have to look at before we can even consider a millitary response."

Bush- "It's real simple! First, you're fired! Next, somebody tell me whether these guys are Christians or not. Because if they ain't then we're going to bomb these guys into tomorrow. I don't want to hear anything out of your freakin' mouths except 'yes' or 'no'."

Bush- "Just out of curiosity, is there a difference between an Arab and a Muslim? I always get those confused!... Anyway, gentlemen, let's do some good!"

 

[DexmanC]

This must be what it was like to try and talk about foreign policy with the most recent President George Bush:

Bush- "Are they evil?"

Cabinet member- "sir?"

Bush- "Are they evil?... You know, are they Christians or are they evil?"

Cabinet member- "Sir, the issue is a little more complicated than this. There are so many factors we have to look at before we can even consider a millitary response."

Bush- "It's real simple! First, you're fired! Next, somebody tell me whether these guys are Christians or not. Because if they ain't then we're going to bomb these guys into tomorrow. I don't want to hear anything out of your freakin' mouths except 'yes' or 'no'."

Bush- "Just out of curiosity, is there a difference between an Arab and a Muslim? I always get those confused!... Anyway, gentlemen, let's do some good!"

Nice tactic. Turn one's post into a cartoon, and avoid discussion about
the points therein. Please take a look at ThePencilNeck's response to my post, and
use it as an outline.

 

[HoustonFrog]

I haven't looked, but I would bet it is the same with the Falcons & Dolphins. Both were way more talented than the team Kubiak took over. If it weren't for their coach walking out on the Dolphins mid-season, they would have finished with a better record (I'm going from memory here, do I have my time line right? The coach before Sparano just up & left?)

.

No, when Sparano took over they just finished a 1-15 season in 2007. Their QB was Trent Green, who got hurt and they went with Cleo Lemon and John Beck, as rook. Ronnie Brown was their only stud and he was hurt early that year. They didn't have much at all. Saban was their coach and quit to go to Alabama afterward. They had Joey Porter on D. The team was a mess. I mean a 10 win turnaround is pretty good...with Chad Pennington as your QB.

 

[DexmanC]

No, when Sparano took over they just finished a 1-15 season in 2007. Their QB was Trent Green, who got hurt and they went with Cleo Lemon and John Beck, as rook. Ronnie Brown was their only stud and he was hurt early that year. They didn't have much at all. Saban was their coach and quit to go to Alabama afterward. They had Joey Porter on D. The team was a mess. I mean a 10 win turnaround is pretty good...with Chad Pennington as your QB.

Not to mention, their only win in 2007 came against the Ravens, on
a miracle catch by Camarillo, or whatever his name is, as time expired
in the fourth quarter.

 

[dalemurphy]

Not to mention, their only win came against the Ravens, on
a miracle catch by Camarillo, or whatever his name is, as time expired
in the fourth quarter.

What do you think of a coach who leads his team to 4 wins less than the previous season? Kubiak's record is one game worse than Soprano's record over the same two year period. Head to head, Kubiak has won both meetings... Perhaps if Peyton Manning blew his ACL out in week one of 2009 or 2008, the Texans would've won 10-11 games and been in the playoffs as well. After all, it was Brady's injury last season that was the key to Miami's success.

But, that's just white noise. When assessing a coach or a football team, it's silly and cowardly to look at anything other than W/L record and playoff berths, right?

 

[DexmanC]

What do you think of a coach who leads his team to 4 wins less than the previous season? Kubiak's record is one game worse than Soprano's record over the same two year period. Head to head, Kubiak has won both meetings... Perhaps if Peyton Manning blew his ACL out in week one of 2009 or 2008, the Texans would've won 10-11 games and been in the playoffs as well. After all, it was Brady's injury last season that was the key to Miami's success.

But, that's just white noise. When assessing a coach or a football team, it's silly and cowardly to look at anything other than W/L record and playoff berths, right?

Sparano also lost his best player in the middle of the season to IR. HIS
BEST PLAYER! Despite all that, they still split with their division's leader.
There's also no doubt, Sparano started from a worse base of talent in
2007, than Kubiak did in 2007. A lot of people call his "wildcat" a "gimmick,"
but his team has the personnel to beat teams when they know it's coming.
He schemed to his players' strengths.
In two years, Sparano has won his division once, and made the playoffs once.

In FOUR years, Kubiak has done neither. He doesn't merit the same rope
Sparano does going into next season. Sparano has ACCOMPLISHMENTS
on his mantle, Kubiak has none.

All I'm asking, is 2010 TRULY a do-or-die year for KUBIAK'S tenure in Houston?

What's so complex about that question? Why does it draw so much
hostility? We both know the Texans find teams to lose to (Jaguars)
(Raiders) (Joey Harrington Falcons), so it doesn't matter what Peyton does.

One game "does not a season make."

Who's at fault for this team sleepwalking through the 1st month of every season?

Who's to blame for them falling off the map during every November?

 

[HoustonFrog]

What do you think of a coach who leads his team to 4 wins less than the previous season? Kubiak's record is one game worse than Soprano's record over the same two year period. Head to head, Kubiak has won both meetings... Perhaps if Peyton Manning blew his ACL out in week one of 2009 or 2008, the Texans would've won 10-11 games and been in the playoffs as well. After all, it was Brady's injury last season that was the key to Miami's success.
But, that's just white noise. When assessing a coach or a football team, it's silly and cowardly to look at anything other than W/L record and playoff berths, right?

This is a cop out. As I said, they fell backwards a little but they made the playoffs the year before and their top weapon went out mid season. Earlier the conclusion by some was that teams like the Jets had more talent when a rookie HC took over. So not the same as Kubes. So when a team that had nothing is pointed out, then it is because Brady was hurt. The key to their success wasn't Brady out...that is 2 games. The key to their success was taking less talent, running the Wilcat and making something out of nothing. Ronnie Brown and Chad Pennington.

This year they were just as much in the hunt as the Texans until the end. Again, this is a team that two years back was 1-15 and trotting out Cleo Lemon while their coach was quitting and star receiver was getting arrested.

I just don't get when a real example is thrown out, somehow Kubes had it harder and Kubes' situation is so different. What about the Atlanta one?Horrible team, turmoil, rookie QB..playoffs. They got killed at QB and RB in the injury front this year but they built a winner and with all the injuries they were still 9-7. Their first back to back winning records.

 

[dalemurphy]

In two years, Sparano has won his division once, and made the playoffs once.
Sparano also lost his best player in the middle of the season to IR. HIS
BEST PLAYER!

In FOUR years, Kubiak has done neither. He doesn't merit the same rope
Sparano does going into next season. Sparano has ACCOMPLISHMENTS
on his mantle, Kubiak has none.

All I'm asking, is 2010 TRULY a do-or-die year for KUBIAK'S tenure in Houston?

What's so complex about that question? Why does it draw so much
hostility? We both know the Texans find teams to lose to (Jaguars)
(Raiders) (Joey Harrington Falcons), so it doesn't matter what Peyton does.

One game "does not a season make."

Who's at fault for this team sleepwalking through the 1st month of every season?

Who's to blame for them falling off the map during every November?

Once again, Miami made the playoffs in 2008 because Brady went on IR in week one. The Texans would've made the playoffs in '08 or '09 if Manning had gone down for the season. Regarding Miami this season and overcoming the loss of Ronnie Brown... The went 7-9! What exactly did they overcome? The Texans won 9 games despite losing 4 offensive starters to the IR, including their best OL, and their elite TE.

If it is neccessary to point fingers as to who is most to blame for our November swoon, I'd place blame on Kris Brown and Peyton Manning. Those two players had more to do with the 4 game losing streak than any other individual did.

I don't think we slept-walked through September. I think our defensive secondary was a mess because of Dunta's holdout, a serious miscalculation by the staff regarding the safety position, Bret Favre's cheap shot on Eugene Wilson in preseason, J. Reeves broken fibula, rookies playing in their first game (Quin, McCain) and Fred Bennett's overall suckedness.

 

[thunderkyss]

There's also no doubt, Sparano started from a worse base of talent in
2007, than Kubiak did in 2007. A lot of people call his "wildcat" a "gimmick,"
but his team has the personnel to beat teams when they know it's coming.
He schemed to his players' strengths.

But we beat him & his wild cat.

I mean Gary did.