Thats what bugs me. He does that way to often, not playing a guy early, then when he does, the guy goes ape **** and you think what could have been.
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When will Connor Barwin turn the corner?
- Thread starter Big Lou
- Start date
Thats what bugs me. He does that way to often, not playing a guy early, then when he does, the guy goes ape **** and you think what could have been.
Maybe they are able to go ape **** because he held them out until they were ready?
Goldensilence
hipster elite
There's no hindsight needed. I said from day one what I post draft. If you don't believe me look up my post history.
If you want to shrug it off fine. I really don't care about being right as much as I wish this franchise wouldn't take as many project players with high picks.
BTW no one has still addressed that Bulman put up pretty much the same damn numbers last year.
Sure if you ware one of those three teams, one which most recently won a superbowl and the other two are perennial playoff teams you can take a raw project player because you can afford to. To me if you're on the cusp of making the playoff you need contributions from your top 2-3 picks.
You can draft a tweener if you're running a 3-4, but that's not my bag. My problem is value at the pick. I keep hearing he just needs more playing time. Well unless we're going to slide Smith inside more often, it's just not going to happen. We've got a part time pass rusher with our second round when we needed more this year.
I just feel we're left holding the same bag with Barwin that we have been with Amobi, Molden (though it's still early looks like a wasted third round pick), Jacoby Jones(it finally looks like a light has come on) and now Barwin.
We're almost always left saying well, if only only Amobi would turn a corner this DL would take off. If only Molden would show up we'd be set at corner. If only JJ could get his head on straight we'll be scary at WR. Now it's man if Barwin can turn a corner we'll get a great pass rush.
Yeah we can wait 3 years to see, but that means we'll be still likely be a year or two behind the other playoff teams waiting for these guys to make that promised impact.
I think the Parker comparison is a bad one. Parker did only average 9.2 points a game, but he didn't need to make an impact there because of the talent he had a round him. He still managed to play nearly 30 minutes a game and the team finished with the best record in the NBA his rookie season. He also played professional ball in France, and while he might've been raw in terms of moving to the NBA he wasn't raw as a point guard.
Ginobili isn't much of a good one either. He had a lot of success overseas in the Italian league. Where he won several championships and MVPs. Again in terms of NBA play might've been raw, but in terms of a basketball player he was pretty damn polished by the time he signed with the Spurs.
If this team's drafting strategy is the same is the Patriots, the Steelers, and the Eagles, then I don't have a problem with it. Maybe you do if you have still have that obsolete logic of . . . "we shouldn't be comparing the Texans to the Steelers, Patriots, or Eagles, because this team that hasn't got the depth that allows you to afford picking project players in the first round."
That is expansion team logic. We just beat one of those teams on Sunday. The Steelers and the Eagles don't have better records than the Texans. What they did in previous years has no bearing. And they have just as many holes on their teams as we do. This team is eight years old, and continuing to steadily improve.
What, are you implying that we shouldn't draft the same as the Patriots, the Steelars, and Eagles until we make playoffs? How do you think think they got there?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Barwin is just scratching the surface. I have a strong feeling, barring injury, that this will not be a question mark for most come the half season mark.
He has shown incremental improvement over the year, has a motor, is new to the position, and athletic. 2009 is over, what about Barwin is there not to like? I know Amobi Okoye, and Barwin is no Okoye.
He has shown incremental improvement over the year, has a motor, is new to the position, and athletic. 2009 is over, what about Barwin is there not to like? I know Amobi Okoye, and Barwin is no Okoye.
Goatcheese
Texan
Nice to see Barwin come up with 4.5 sacks + an intentional grounding call.
Grams
Veteran
I don't have season tickets so I just watch the games at home.
I won't say Okoye is a great players, but he was there on a lot more plays this year. Might not have been credited with the sack or tackle, but seemed to be in the pile of Texans in on the plays.
Barwin also, he might not have all the stats but he was in the QB's face a lot this year.
His legal shove on Brady was great. He let Brady know they were not afraid of him and would put him on the ground everytime they could. Think he helped get Brady out of his comfort zone. Brady does not do well when he gets put on the ground a lot.
I think he was a good pick and will only get better in the coming years.
I am not an NFL scout or coach and do not know when a player is ready to play full time. I leave that up to the people in charge of player development. How do we know when a player has learned the play book and know where to go when. Some will pick it up faster than others. Some may be nursing an injury and it takes a while to be in good playing shape. Maybe why some players (Foster) did not play till later in the season. We can only speculate as to why he was not played earlier in the year.
I won't say Okoye is a great players, but he was there on a lot more plays this year. Might not have been credited with the sack or tackle, but seemed to be in the pile of Texans in on the plays.
Barwin also, he might not have all the stats but he was in the QB's face a lot this year.
His legal shove on Brady was great. He let Brady know they were not afraid of him and would put him on the ground everytime they could. Think he helped get Brady out of his comfort zone. Brady does not do well when he gets put on the ground a lot.
I think he was a good pick and will only get better in the coming years.
I am not an NFL scout or coach and do not know when a player is ready to play full time. I leave that up to the people in charge of player development. How do we know when a player has learned the play book and know where to go when. Some will pick it up faster than others. Some may be nursing an injury and it takes a while to be in good playing shape. Maybe why some players (Foster) did not play till later in the season. We can only speculate as to why he was not played earlier in the year.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Well, it seems to me that we got significant contributions from our first 4 picks:
Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
...not to mention our 6th round pick: McCain and an UDFA rookie: A.Foster.
I'm not sure how a reasonable person can complain about the lack of impact from this rookie class. Pardon Rick Smith if his 4th rounder was more immediately valuable than his 2nd rounder. Though, I doubt he will be hearing any complaints from McNair or Kubes about that.
Barwin brought a unique skill set to the team. Bush often used him in ways that freed up A. Smith and others on twists, stunts, and just strange alignments. 4 sacks in part time duty is pretty good. I realize Orakpo had more sacks but I'm not sure what that had to do with the 46th pick in the draft.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Maybe it was just my imagination but did the Texans play a 3-4 against the Pats ? I thought I saw Barwin was playing a standup DE .
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I never said anything about Caldwell or Quinn contributing. Hey if we get big time contributions from anything past a 3rd rounder that's icing on the cake to me. I'm not complaining, just pointing out with Quinn and McCain they got more PT because we decided to cut ties with all seasoned vets at DB. I think it was the right move though. Really I give credit to Gibbs for getting those guys ready to play as opposed to the blackhole that was Jon Hoke.
I like Barwin's athelticism, and obviously that's why he was drafted. I don't get what's so hard to swallow about me thinking we could've gotten better production from some of the other players I've mentioned at the same spot. Barring an injury (football gods don't let it happen) not going to be a full-time starter though.
No one still has addressed that we got the same production from Tim Bulman last year.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Same production in terms of sacks... Bulman was a 4th year player as opposed to a rookie. Also, Bulman can not physically do the things that Barwin was asked to do this year and certainly beyond. Barwin can threaten the edge and play in a two point stance off the LOS. Bulman, nor any other DL player on the Texans can do that.
I'm not sure why you think Barwin will only be a part time player. That being said, I would argue that a great defensive line has ONLY part time players. Heavy DL rotation is something I know Kollar believes in and is a key to a great DL, IMO.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That wasn't your imagination. They were mixing things up. There were a few plays where DeMeco and Cushing swapped as well.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
The way I see it with Bulman is that Bulman has peaked. I believe that we've seen the best we are going to get out of Bulman. More upside to Barwin. Coming in as a rookie situational pass rusher he's just learning the pro game. Once he gets all coached up is where I think we will see the difference.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I guess that is the bottom line and I sure hope you guys are right. Though I can't help but be a bit remiscient to think that with with McCoy or Greene here instead we'd be in the playoffs.
Guess I'll have to settle for the Texans motto. "Wait til next year!"
None of us are, but as a group we somehow get trapped into thinking that those pro scouts know exactly how long this guy or that will take to make an impact (they don't). Getting a rookie like Cushing is outstanding, but really most rookies are much like Duane Brown, or Caldwell or Barwin; they do some good things and flash, but really are not ready to come in and play at a consistent starter's level. Drafts are much more about long-term talent acquisition than guaranteed immediate impact. That said, the next for months the general obsession will be about which guys we think can come and do exactly what relatively few rookies do and be a starting quality player from day 1.