Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of this generation

[Dread-Head]

I'm partial to Brady, but it's tough to argue against Manning. The dude is the offensive coordinator on the field, which hearkens back to the old days of the NFL. He has an amazing mind for the game and obviously very talented in physical skills.

I know I will be able to tell my grandkids about seeing Manning in person quite a few times. He's a no brainer HoF player, and that says a lot when you can say that in the prime of his career.

I just wish he was an NFC QB!!!

I agree. As much as I hate seeing the Texans lose to him, I will give the devil his due. The man will wind up in the HOF and rightfully so.

 

[Dread-Head]

Still think Brady is the better QB.

I simply MUST get footage of he and Belicheat from the pannel discussion at the Cannes Film Festival. Belicheat's insight on:

A. depth of feild

B. apature adjustment in natural light

C. shooting under adverse weather conditions

&

D. Proper white balance techniques when shooting under florescent light

were simply incredible.

Brady + Belicheat = *

 

[HoustonFrog]

Off the top of my head the best QB's I've ever personally seen are Marino, Elway, Manning, Brady, Montana. There is a group that is almost as good but the names are too numerous to mention but they range from Dan Fouts to Warren Moon with a lot of Steve Young mixed in.

If you asked me my top QBs from the time I watched as a kid..mid 70s.. until now it would randomly be.....Staubach, Bradshaw, Bert Jones, Fouts, Montana, Elway, Marino, Aikman, Steve Young, Favre, Manning and Brady. With, like you, guys with great seasons mixed in.

 

[Texecutioner]

If you look at stats for comparison:

Manning throws an INT for every 36 passes he throws. Brady is 1 INT for every 43 passes he's thrown. Winner: Brady

Manning has thrown a TD for every 18 passes, Brady a TD for every 18 passes. TIE

Passes thrown in a single season is 50 vs. 49. Brady (barely)

Let's not forget that a lot of Manning's numbers were against playing an expansion team twice a year. Anyone recall his audible to passes against the Texans in a fourth quarter blowout game so he could get the record that season?

They are almost tied in completion percentage (64.5% vs. 63%). Manning

Rings, 3 to 1. Brady

Super Bowl appearances, 4 to 1. Brady

Playoff records: Brady = 14-3 (.824) [the second best in NFL history behind Bart Starr 9-1, .900], Manning = 7-7 (.500). Brady

Entering 2009, Brady has thrown 2.29 times more touchdowns than interceptions. His touchdown-to-interception ratio is the best in NFL history among all players with 2,000 or more passing attempts. Steve Young ranks second in NFL history with a 2.17 touchdown-to-interception ratio.

Brady won 76 of his first 100 regular-season starts, tying Roger Staubach's mark for most victories by a quarterback in his first 100 starts during the Super Bowl Era (since 1966).

Brady enters 2009 as the NFL's all-time leader in overtime wins without a defeat, recording a perfect 7-0 mark in overtime in his career. Terry Bradshaw is the only other quarterback to be undefeated in at least five overtime games, posting a 5-0 record.

Brady has orchestrated 28 game-winning drives to break a tie or take the lead in the fourth quarter or overtime. Six of his game-winning efforts have come in the postseason, where he has played in 17 games.

Brady led a game-winning drive to break a tie or take the lead in the fourth quarter of each of the Patriots' three Super Bowl victories, becoming the only quarterback in NFL history to lead three such game-winning drives in the Super Bowl.

Brady owns the Super Bowl record for pass completions in a game, connecting on 32 passes in Super Bowl XXXVIII.

Brady completed the first 162 passes of his career without an interception. It was the longest streak to start a career in NFL history.

I'm not debating that Manning is a HoF QB and all, but I just find it ludicrous to dismiss what Brady is as a QB in this league.

Did you research all of that yourself DB or did you find this somewhere?? If so, great analysis and research here.

I think this post pretty much sums it up.

Brady > All other QB's other than Montana.

Must spread the rep for this post, but I can't. Someone please rep this guy for me.

 

[Double Barrel]

Did you research all of that yourself DB or did you find this somewhere?? If so, great analysis and research here.

I think this post pretty much sums it up.

Brady > All other QB's other than Montana.

Must spread the rep for this post, but I can't. Someone please rep this guy for me.

I just looked up the stats on NFL.com and did the calculations. Some of the last few points were from the Patriots website bio on Brady (I meant to link it). Thanks for the props, though.

In no way am I diminishing Manning, but some of the stats on Brady - both as a QB and as the team he's led - are stunning. His playoff record and OT record reveal a QB who can lead and make plays under pressure. People act like the Colts are a dog team, but the reality is that they've been a playoff team the whole time, as well. And just about any team that makes the playoffs has a legit shot, IMO. Brady just made the clutch plays when Manning did not for a long time.

I agree about Montana and then everyone else. But, to me, everyone else starts with Brady. JMO

 

[Mr teX]

I wouldn't give the nod to Peyton over Brady. I don't recall Brady playing in huge blowouts in the 4th quarter throwing bombs.

I've always thought manning was better than Brady...

where were you in 2007 when Brady was playing in 2 meaningless games at the end of the season all so he and the team could make history?; & he still barely broke the record. In contrast Manning sat out good chunks of multiple 4th quarters in his 2004 campaign. If he'd done what brady did he might've thrown damn near 60!

Even with him destroying us regularly, I've always thought manning was that dude b/c he's always been nearly impossible to stop. Blitz him you're gonna get beat deep, sit back in a zone & he'll pick you apart.

He's the 1st qb i've ever heard of where teams felt the only way to stop him was to keep him & his offense off the field. Belichick used that to his advantage as every time they met in the playoffs, he featured the run more with Dillon to eat clock.

He's thrown at least 26 TD's every year since he's been in the league..

he's got umpteen 4000 yard seasons....

He's the complete package for a qb, (arm strength and accuracy, smarts, durability, toughness).

I've alway thought that Brady's greatness centered on him pretty much not getting touched in the pocket & Belichick's defensive game plan..........& Vinatieri. I think the 2007 superbowl & last year when he went down & cassell stepped in lends more credibility to that.

 

[Texecutioner]

I just looked up the stats on NFL.com and did the calculations. Some of the last few points were from the Patriots website bio on Brady (I meant to link it). Thanks for the props, though.

In no way am I diminishing Manning, but some of the stats on Brady - both as a QB and as the team he's led - are stunning. His playoff record and OT record reveal a QB who can lead and make plays under pressure. People act like the Colts are a dog team, but the reality is that they've been a playoff team the whole time, as well. And just about any team that makes the playoffs has a legit shot, IMO. Brady just made the clutch plays when Manning did not for a long time.

I agree about Montana and then everyone else. But, to me, everyone else starts with Brady. JMO

Agree with just about everything here. For years the only knock on Brady amongst the best of the best QB's was that he didn't have the stats in certain seasons like Marino, Favre, Manning, and a few others but the moment he got an elite WR he had the best stats of all time, and his WR Moss also had by far his best season when he got a QB like Tom Brady and Welker went from being that quick fast white guy with potential to one of the best possession WR's in the league. They also did this without a great RB, like the Colts had for years with Edge and then Addai in his first two impressive seasons. Brady never needed to be a stat machine though, because he and his coach both realized that a balanced offense is what they needed any way, and efficiency will always be more important than anything.

I've got Montana at #1, but like I said Brady could easily be there even over Montana when he retires if this injury doesn't hurt him much. He's way to smart of a QB and not to get back on track.

 

[disaacks3]

I wouldn't kick ANY of the names bandied about in here off my squad, but I still think Manning is the best I've ever seen. Nobody in NFL history ever ran their offense from the LoS (no huddle) all game long like he has. He is as great a student of the game as I've ever met.

My personal top 9 (career):

1. Manning
2. Elway
3. Montana
4. Brady
5. Marino
6. Staubach
7. Fouts
8. Young
9. Kelly

 

[Double Barrel]

I wouldn't kick ANY of the names bandied about in here off my squad, but I still think Manning is the best I've ever seen. Nobody in NFL history ever ran their offense from the LoS (no huddle) all game long like he has. He is as great a student of the game as I've ever met.

My personal top 9 (career):

1. Manning
2. Elway
3. Montana
4. Brady
5. Marino
6. Staubach
7. Fouts
8. Young
9. Kelly

Actually, QBs in the '70's routinely ran their offenses on the field without getting calls from the sideline. Terry Bradshaw talked about this during one of the America's Game episodes about the Steelers, and he decided in the huddle if it would be a run or a pass and what specific play it would be from that point. He said that he was nothing special in that regard, though, because QBs used to always run the offenses back the day.

I'm not knocking Manning for doing it now - it is admirable - but he is hardly a pioneer or original in that regard. Today's offenses are micromanaged to death by a host of sideline and press box coaches/coordinators. Of course, modern offenses are more complex than before, so that has something to do with it, as well.

 

[TimeKiller]

I've alway thought that Brady's greatness centered on him pretty much not getting touched in the pocket & Belichick's defensive game plan..........& Vinatieri.

Brady has got a complete package around him for sure. Allegations aside, Belichick is a mastermind at gameplanning and getting the most out of anybody on the field. Their D's have been disgusting for a while, certainly elite.

Peyton IS the mastermind for the Colts....like he's Brady's body with Belichick's head on top or some other conglomeration from hell.

 

[disaacks3]

Actually, QBs in the '70's routinely ran their offenses on the field without getting calls from the sideline. Terry Bradshaw talked about this during one of the America's Game episodes about the Steelers, and he decided in the huddle if it would be a run or a pass and what specific play it would be from that point. He said that he was nothing special in that regard, though, because QBs used to always run the offenses back the day.

I'm not knocking Manning for doing it now - it is admirable - but he is hardly a pioneer or original in that regard. Today's offenses are micromanaged to death by a host of sideline and press box coaches/coordinators. Of course, modern offenses are more complex than before, so that has something to do with it, as well.

They still called a huddle, that is NOT the same as running the offense in No-Huddle. Case-in-point - It affects the other team's ability to substitute DURING the series and Manning habitually gets a "free play" here and there by catching the Defense napping, having too many men on the field, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I know that plenty of QB's "called their own game" in the day and that was an evolutionary step forward, but I can't think of ANY other instance before the modern-day Colts where the Offense was essentially in hurry-up for an entire game.

 

[Double Barrel]

They still called a huddle, that is NOT the same as running the offense in No-Huddle. Case-in-point - It affects the other team's ability to substitute DURING the series and Manning habitually gets a "free play" here and there by catching the Defense napping, having too many men on the field, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I know that plenty of QB's "called their own game" in the day and that was an evolutionary step forward, but I can't think of ANY other instance before the modern-day Colts where the Offense was essentially in hurry-up for an entire game.

The '90's Buffalo Bills under Jim Kelly ran the K-Gun offense that was a three WR set. Basically, it was a no huddle offense the entire game that Kelly called all of the plays. As an Oilers fan, I remember it all too well and how it burned us all too often.

 

[WWJD]

Peyton does better commercials.

My vote is for him.

 

[disaacks3]

The '90's Buffalo Bills under Jim Kelly ran the K-Gun offense that was a three WR set. Basically, it was a no huddle offense the entire game that Kelly called all of the plays. As an Oilers fan, I remember it all too well and how it burned us all too often.

Hmm, I'd forgotten about the K-Gun (bad memories I suppose), though Wiki actually mentions the Bungles even earlier under Wyche.

Linky

 

[ObsiWan]

Did you research all of that yourself DB or did you find this somewhere?? If so, great analysis and research here.

I think this post pretty much sums it up.

Brady > All other QB's other than Montana.

Must spread the rep for this post, but I can't. Someone please rep this guy for me.

Done. Very thorough research.

 

[Blazing Arrow]

Wow.

I mean really...

Manning never helps his D out by playing clock management? Really? Must be nice to know on D that everytime you feel good and damn ready to make ONE stop you'll get 7 points on the board and even if you don't you're probably still gonna get 7. And even if you spend 3 quarters on the field there is still a good chance of you winning. And when that does happen, somebody somewhere is going to try to pick apart the 5th alltime winningest QB's CLOCK MANAGEMENT. Silly

Yes because Manning scores on every drive. That is why they score 70+ points a game and just blow teams out.

In '08 he puts up some quick points only able to put up 7 in the second half including OT and it was on a 72 yard bomb.

In '07 he takes a lead them sputters as his D can not stop the Chargers. Giving up 21 in the second half.

'05 Pitt holds him to several 3 and outs controls the clock and only in the 4th on a couple of bombs does he make the game close.

'04 NE holds the game to a 1/4 TOP and owns the Colts. Bad weather makes the bomb basically useless and Manning fails.

'03 again through clock management NE holds the Colts to little O. Manning throws 4 picks and basically is shut down. Most picks coming on long plays.

'02 before he starts to get that he can not win ever game he gets rocked in a 41-0 loss to the Jets.

The guy thinks he can do everything on his own. He calls the plays at the line and always calls streaks and deep posts. When the game gets bad all he does is look for that. His playoff history sucks because when he plays good secondaries he tries to win it in the air instead of forcing the D to cover on the check downs.

There is a reason he has not completely owned the Titans over the years even when we were rebuilding. He does not manage games. He just scores.

 

[ObsiWan]

Peyton does better commercials.

My vote is for him.

Come to think of it, no other QB does commercials but him and his brother.
why is that?

 

[WWJD]

Come to think of it, no other QB does commercials but him and his brother.
why is that?

Romo has at least one...McNabb has one with Larry Fitzgerald that's playing right now for some food place..Denny's or something.

but you're right about Peyton and Eli. They get all the good ones.

Good agent I suspect.

 

[mike moffat]

You're not that old..I can say that cause I'm right there with ya...

I do remember those old timers myself along with guys like Roman Gabriel and Ken Anderson...and do you remember Jim Hart with the Cards?

I think Peyton is better than all of them myself.

Thanks for the kind words. I do remember Hart. But I agree, Peyton is better at a much more sophistocated time.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Thanks for the kind words. I do remember Hart. But I agree, Peyton is better at a much more sophistocated time.

Hart of the Cards ..I hated him. In St. Louis they used to give the Cowboy fits when he would throw to Mel Gray...he and later Roy Green with Lomax..drove me nuts.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Come to think of it, no other QB does commercials but him and his brother.
why is that?

Well, I thought Favre's commercial about not being able to make up his mind was pretty funny. Favre also has a bunch of different commercials or has over the years.

 

[Double Barrel]

Yes because Manning scores on every drive. That is why they score 70+ points a game and just blow teams out.

In '08 he puts up some quick points only able to put up 7 in the second half including OT and it was on a 72 yard bomb.

In '07 he takes a lead them sputters as his D can not stop the Chargers. Giving up 21 in the second half.

'05 Pitt holds him to several 3 and outs controls the clock and only in the 4th on a couple of bombs does he make the game close.

'04 NE holds the game to a 1/4 TOP and owns the Colts. Bad weather makes the bomb basically useless and Manning fails.

'03 again through clock management NE holds the Colts to little O. Manning throws 4 picks and basically is shut down. Most picks coming on long plays.

'02 before he starts to get that he can not win ever game he gets rocked in a 41-0 loss to the Jets.

The guy thinks he can do everything on his own. He calls the plays at the line and always calls streaks and deep posts. When the game gets bad all he does is look for that. His playoff history sucks because when he plays good secondaries he tries to win it in the air instead of forcing the D to cover on the check downs.

There is a reason he has not completely owned the Titans over the years even when we were rebuilding. He does not manage games. He just scores.

Good post, man. And you've got a great point: when Manning's offense sputters and he's both calling the plays and running it from the huddle, it's nobody to blame but himself for poor management. He does tend to call big plays, too, which more often than not, have failed in the playoffs. I guess this is the downside of being the on-field OC, 'eh?

 

[Mr teX]

Yes because Manning scores on every drive. That is why they score 70+ points a game and just blow teams out.

In '08 he puts up some quick points only able to put up 7 in the second half including OT and it was on a 72 yard bomb.

In '07 he takes a lead them sputters as his D can not stop the Chargers. Giving up 21 in the second half.

'05 Pitt holds him to several 3 and outs controls the clock and only in the 4th on a couple of bombs does he make the game close.

'04 NE holds the game to a 1/4 TOP and owns the Colts. Bad weather makes the bomb basically useless and Manning fails.

'03 again through clock management NE holds the Colts to little O. Manning throws 4 picks and basically is shut down. Most picks coming on long plays.

'02 before he starts to get that he can not win ever game he gets rocked in a 41-0 loss to the Jets.

The guy thinks he can do everything on his own. He calls the plays at the line and always calls streaks and deep posts. When the game gets bad all he does is look for that. His playoff history sucks because when he plays good secondaries he tries to win it in the air instead of forcing the D to cover on the check downs.

There is a reason he has not completely owned the Titans over the years even when we were rebuilding. He does not manage games. He just scores.

Well...You guys have a "game manager" as your starting Qb, how'd that work out for ya in the playoffs last year? Unless i missed something about the game, i thought the purpose of an offense was to score points?

2nd, of those 6 years you listed there are 4 eventual superbowl champions he faced that featured fairly stout defenses that were very adept at slowing down prolific offenses. Those patriots defenses he faced had just come off of shutting down "the greatest show on turf", so being able to handle Peyton & those colts teams wasn't a tremendous leap. The pittsburgh defense he faced was essentially the same one that just won the superbowl over a pass happy offense in Arizona..You have to take this stuff into context. How'd brady look in 2008 when The giants were constantly in his grill? Good defense always trumps good offense.

3rd, how's it his fault his defense couldn't stop anyone when it mattered? That's how those teams worked...manning and the offense got so far ahead that it forced teams out of the run. Consequently Freeney & co. got to pin their ears back & make plays. You can't penalize him & the offense b/c his defenses got exposed once teams realized the best way to defend against him was to just keep him off the field. Credit the defensive playcaller for the opposition.

 

[WWJD]

Hart of the Cards ..I hated him. In St. Louis they used to give the Cowboy fits when he would throw to Mel Gray...he and later Roy Green with Lomax..drove me nuts.

The Cards really were a very good team.

Conrad Dobler was the nastiest dirtiest player I've ever seen....

I do remember Mel Gray but they had an outstanding RB whose name escapes me right now...I think the guy had a son that played in the NFL as well.

Somebody help my very old memory..who was that?

 

[WWJD]

Well, I thought Favre's commercial about not being able to make up his mind was pretty funny. Favre also has a bunch of different commercials or has over the years.

Ah I forgot! It is hysterical.

 

[Blazing Arrow]

Come to think of it, no other QB does commercials but him and his brother.
why is that?

McNabb and chunky soup? Those have run for years.

Actually ...

Steve Young for Toyota, Brady had that wierd thing with the goat, Farve has the hans commercial I think they are. Marino had the isotoners.

 

[Texecutioner]

Well...You guys have a "game manager" as your starting Qb, how'd that work out for ya in the playoffs last year? Unless i missed something about the game, i thought the purpose of an offense was to score points?

Pretty lame rebuttel Mr. Tex. What the heck does Kerry Collins have to do with this? He's not even part of this discussion man.

2nd, of those 6 years you listed there are 4 eventual superbowl champions he faced that featured fairly stout defenses that were very adept at slowing down prolific offenses. Those patriots defenses he faced had just come off of shutting down "the greatest show on turf", so being able to handle Peyton & those colts teams wasn't a tremendous leap. The pittsburgh defense he faced was essentially the same one that just won the superbowl over a pass happy offense in Arizona..You have to take this stuff into context. How'd brady look in 2008 when The giants were constantly in his grill? Good defense always trumps good offense.

What a bunch of excuses here. Manning played against some tough defenses, so he gets a pass??? Sorry, to bust your bubble, but Brady beat those tough Steelers defenses TWICE in AFC championship games and was also able to beat the Chargers both years they went deep in the post season and one of those seasons the Chargers had a great defense. Brady was able to move past those teams better than Manning was and made more clutch throws. And hell, the Colts just lost to the Chargers last year in the playoffs who went 8-8. Manning has not been near the post season wizard that Tom Brady has.

 

[HoustonFrog]

The Cards really were a very good team.

Conrad Dobler was the nastiest dirtiest player I've ever seen....

I do remember Mel Gray but they had an outstanding RB whose name escapes me right now...I think the guy had a son that played in the NFL as well.

Somebody help my very old memory..who was that?

Terry Metcalf...son played at UT and then with the Browns

 

[WWJD]

Terry Metcalf...son played at UT and then with the Browns

Thanks Frog..I couldn't remember his name but I remembered him.

 

[kastofsna]

He just scores.

i'll take that QB, please

 

[Blazing Arrow]

i'll take that QB, please

You had him in Marino .... how did that work out for you?

 

[kastofsna]

had one of the best QB's of all time. took a team with no running game and no defense to the playoffs many years, mostly on his shoulders. worked out quite swell!

 

[Blazing Arrow]

had one of the best QB's of all time. took a team with no running game and no defense to the playoffs many years, mostly on his shoulders. worked out quite swell!

Trophies?

 

[kastofsna]

well ya got me there

point is he did as good a job as he could've done in his ridiculous career

 

[Mr teX]

Pretty lame rebuttel Mr. Tex. What the heck does Kerry Collins have to do with this? He's not even part of this discussion man.



What a bunch of excuses here. Manning played against some tough defenses, so he gets a pass??? Sorry, to bust your bubble, but Brady beat those tough Steelers defenses TWICE in AFC championship games and was also able to beat the Chargers both years they went deep in the post season and one of those seasons the Chargers had a great defense. Brady was able to move past those teams better than Manning was and made more clutch throws. And hell, the Colts just lost to the Chargers last year in the playoffs who went 8-8. Manning has not been near the post season wizard that Tom Brady has.

Dude, it goes to his point about a qb who "manages" a game. If given the choice between a guy who does that really well & a guy who takes his offense down the field and scores "too fast" it's pretty much a no brainer who's gonna be taken. I'd venture to say that every coach in the NFL wants the scorer over the manager...

& yeah b/c it was all brady & belichick's defenses & Vinatieri's leg had nothing to do with those patriot teams winning those games

since you brought it up...

Brady's stats against those teams in those games... hardly spectacular

Cmp Att Yds TD Int Lng Y/A Cmp% Rate
2002: 12 18 115 0 0 28 6.4 66.7 84.3
2005: 14 21 207 2 0 60 9.9 66.7 130.5
2007: 27 51 280 2 3 49 5.5 52.9 57.6
2008: 22 33 209 2 3 18 6.3 66.7 66.4

Now as you can see, the 2 recent playoff games he had against SD in 2007 & 2008, brady actually looked more hapless than Manning did against them. They won not b/c of "clutch" throws by Brady but b/c NE's defense kept them in the game as they had to over-come 3 TO's from Brady in each game & they got 2 & 4 of their own respectively from SD.

In the 2002 Pittsburgh game, If i remember correctly, brady was knocked out & it was Bledsoe who ran the show for most of that game & looked damn good doing it too, so brady doesn't get credit for that win. So in actuality, 2005 was the only game he was a major factor in & even then he still had a great defense behind him as Harrison had and 87 yd int in the 2005 game that pretty much clinched it.

In addition, to all of this, those patriots teams were known as defensive teams. The one time they got away from trying to be that & those players started getting older/released....in 2007, they got to the superbowl & lost.....to another defensive team. The reason they've had trouble thus far in the season is because their defense can't stop the run.

He's not the greatest qb of this generation largely for the same reasons Terry Bradshaw & Troy Aikman aren't immediately thought of as a top 5 qbs ever. They're great in their own rights, but not the true reason those teams were able to win. By contrast, you subtract Manning from those colts teams & they very well might be picking top 5 in the draft every year. He is the Colts & everyone knows it.

Just because the way Brady plays the game reminds of you of the way montana played, doesn't mean that he can be considered in the same breath..

 

[Dread-Head]

Most people rank Joe Montana as the greatest QB to ever play and well I've always thought so. However when it's all said and done if this injury that Brady got last season doesn't effect him much, then I think Brady will be the best even over Joe possibly. But as it stands now, Brady is a carbon copy of what Joe was.

SERIOUSLY? Joe Montana and his coaches didn't rely on cicanary(sp) and no one disputes the superbowls they won or the means by which they won them.

Brady doesn't have the best arm in the league, but he has one of the best. He's very accurate, and his passes have such a similar velocity to them that Montana's did. He moves just like Joe did, his poise is just like Joe's was and the way he won games in his first few SB's was very similar by simply trying to get it done and not worrying about huge passing stats. But once Brady got some real WR's he became worldly and like a god at the position stat wise right away.

Brady's good...but he can't be mentioned in the same BREATH as Montana. Not yet.

 

[Dread-Head]

Manning

Rings, 3 to 1. Brady

Super Bowl appearances, 4 to 1. Brady


Playoff records: Brady = 14-3 (.824) [the second best in NFL history behind Bart Starr 9-1, .900], Manning = 7-7 (.500). Brady

gue.

Okay, so by YOUR Logic Antoine Smith was a MUCH better running back than EARL CAMPBELL...because he has three Superbowl rings and Earl never played in one?

 

[Old School]

Okay, so by YOUR Logic Antoine Smith was a MUCH better running back than EARL CAMPBELL...because he has three Superbowl rings and Earl never played in one?

Don't forget Horry's collection of rings. That makes him an instant HOFer. (I know, not the same sport but the logic is)

 

[ChampionTexan]

edit

 

[Double Barrel]

Okay, so by YOUR Logic Antoine Smith was a MUCH better running back than EARL CAMPBELL...because he has three Superbowl rings and Earl never played in one?

What?

I never said that. It is your assumption of logic that I never put forth.

If you look at my ENTIRE post, you would (or should) clearly see that the stats you posted above are part of many impressive stats for an entire body of work.

I posted QB stats, as well, and Brady is right up there with Manning, even surpassing him in many areas. And if you bother to read my previous posts, I've CLEARLY stated that a solid case can be made for either QB.

Defending myself for a point I never made against hack and slash assumptions is lame.

 

[Double Barrel]

Those two other cats are noteworthy, but they can't polish Ben's second ring...YET!

This is YOUR logic, not mine.

 

[Dread-Head]

What?

I never said that. It is your assumption of logic that I never put forth.

If you look at my ENTIRE post, you would (or should) clearly see that the stats you posted above are part of many impressive stats for an entire body of work.

I posted QB stats, as well, and Brady is right up there with Manning, even surpassing him in many areas. And if you bother to read my previous posts, I've CLEARLY stated that a solid case can be made for either QB.

Defending myself for a point I never made against hack and slash assumptions is lame.

Part of your argument is that Brady is the superior QB because he has more superbowl rings. You also assert that Brady is in the same league as Mr. Joe Montana. I'll withhold judgment until the end of his career but at present I'll respectfully disagree. But the HUGE asterisk that he and Belichick will have following them for the remainder of their careers prevents a Montana comparison.

 

[Dread-Head]

This is YOUR logic, not mine.

Not logic. Simply one man's opinion. If I intercepted a pass from EITHER of these three QBs, Big Ben is the ONE guy whom I run directly AT with the football as I know he would flatten my @ss. In MY OPINON (which is by no means an expert opinion) Roethlissburger revitalized the Steelers. He went from BACK UP to leading them to two titles. Where were the Steelers BEFORE Ben? The Cellar. He plays hard and the rest of the team follows his lead and that in MY OPINION makes him the superior all around athlete. Disagree as it's your right, but I'm merely stating my opinion.

 

[Double Barrel]

Part of your argument is that Brady is the superior QB because he has more superbowl rings. You also assert that Brady is in the same league as Mr. Joe Montana. I'll withhold judgment until the end of his career but at present I'll respectfully disagree. But the HUGE asterisk that he and Belichick will have following them for the remainder of their careers prevents a Montana comparison.

It's just part of an overall body of work, in the same way that EVERYONE points to the fact that Montana has four rings. For the record, I never said that Brady was in the same league. I specifically pointed out that "the greatest" starts with Montana, and then it's everyone else. We are all free to pick who we thinks leads the pack of everyone else.

If that was the only case I made (about rings), I could see you quoting me as being a valid argument. But your hack and slash of my post is completely out of context, simply because rings are maybe 1/25th of my perspective, but you quoted me like it was the bulk of it.

Brady's QB-related numbers are just as good as Manning's, and that is the main point I was making with that post.

Not logic. Simply one man's opinion. If I intercepted a pass from EITHER of these three QBs, Big Ben is the ONE guy whom I run directly AT with the football as I know he would flatten my @ss. In MY OPINON (which is by no means an expert opinion) Roethlissburger revitalized the Steelers. He went from BACK UP to leading them to two titles. Where were the Steelers BEFORE Ben? The Cellar. He plays hard and the rest of the team follows his lead and that in MY OPINION makes him the superior all around athlete. Disagree as it's your right, but I'm merely stating my opinion.

If you look in the the other QB thread, I said that Big Ben is no. 3 of current QBs in the league (behind Brady and Manning), so you've got no argument with me that he's achieving greatness.

I'm just pointing out that you are using the number of Super Bowl rings as a qualifier earlier in this thread and then [erroneously] trying to argue away from that logic with my post. It appears to be a double-standard on your part. JMO

Obviously - as I have stated before - ALL of this debate comes down to perception and opinion. I respect your opinions, but you clearly hate Brady and have a mancrush on Manning, so perhaps your emotions are clouding your objectivity.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Not logic. Simply one man's opinion. If I intercepted a pass from EITHER of these three QBs, Big Ben is the ONE guy whom I run directly AT with the football as I know he would flatten my @ss. In MY OPINON (which is by no means an expert opinion) Roethlissburger revitalized the Steelers. He went from BACK UP to leading them to two titles. Where were the Steelers BEFORE Ben? The Cellar. He plays hard and the rest of the team follows his lead and that in MY OPINION makes him the superior all around athlete. Disagree as it's your right, but I'm merely stating my opinion.

First of all, don't pencil whip facts too much...seems to be your theme lately. He was drafted as a franchise QB. Cowher admitted that. He had already moved to #2 because of injury by the time his rookie season started and was playing in Game 2. He started 14 games and was AFC Offensive Rookie of the Year. If you might remember Brady was a 6th rounder who was a backup for his rookie year and then came in the next year when Bledsoe went down. But overall in my book this group easily goes Brady, Manning, Ben just because if what Brady had to play with on offense and what he did with it...including the stats quoted by DB.

 

[Texecutioner]

SERIOUSLY? Joe Montana and his coaches didn't rely on cicanary(sp) and no one disputes the superbowls they won or the means by which they won them.

Is this a joke? The only people that try shitting on the Patriots SB's are people that hate the team. There is absolutely nothing there to try and disqualify their SB's. Coaches and teams have been doing what BB allegedly was doing going back to the early 90's. Hell, Jimmy Johnson bragged about it, and said that all sorts of teams did that. You're just trying to come up with some sort of flaw on Tom Brady's resume, and this is clearly not one.

And even if you wanted to go there, it still has nothing on Tom Brady. He wasn't the one doing it, and he has no control over what his HC, OC, or anyone else does for that matter. He's just the QB that goes in there and executes plays. And one of the biggest flaws in people that simply like to bash the Patriots and try to use that Spy Gate thing was at the beginning of the the year in pre season that the controversy of that came out which was two years ago, when the Pats had the best offense of all time. So, that right there proves that they were a great team with or without any spygate methods. They were being watched like a hawk all season by league officials, and Brady throws 50 TD's, Moss catches 23 TD's, Welker has a break out season, Gaffney looks like he actually belongs in the NFL, and that team goes a missed INT away from a perfect season. So that right there showed that the Spygate nonsense was a bunch of crap.

Brady's good...but he can't be mentioned in the same BREATH as Montana. Not yet.

How do you claim this? They've both been to the SB 4 times in their careers with Brady losing one and the one he lost his team had the lead and their defense let Manning come down the field and score with hardly any time left. That wasn't exactly on Brady in that loss. Other than that, he's already got 3 SB rings and led a dynasty team throughout this entire decade. He didn't have Jerry Rice and John Taylor to throw to either for his first 3 SB's. He had a trio of WR's that were changing every year with Troy Brown being his clutch guy. Montana had a great defense in San Francisco as well. And hell, Montana never had any statistical season like Brady's 50 TD season. The most TD's that Joe Montana ever threw were 31 and he had Jerry Rice for most of his career who is the best WR of all time, while Brady has only played one season with an elite WR, who most people thought was washed up until he started playing with Brady.

Tom Brady and Joe Montana are a lot closer than you think. Both of them have led their teams to multiple SB's and dynasty teams and watching them play they both have a very similar style with their release on their throws, their mobility, and style of winning games. Brady is basically the 2nd coming of Joe Montana.

 

[Texan_Bill]

How do you claim this?

Talk to me in 6 more seasons and 13,000 more yards.

 

[Mr teX]

Brady is essentially 1 obscure rule & 3 wide right or left kicks away from being Jim Kelly...

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Ben was never a backup and the Steelers were a good football team before he got there. Stewart and Maddox both enjoyed success and made the playoffs.

Ben has helped take them to another level though. They were just good before they had a real franchise QB, now that they have a franchise QB they are great.

 

[Texecutioner]

Talk to me in 6 more seasons and 13,000 more yards.

So are you indicating that passing yards is your ice breaker here Bill? I hope not. If Brady can stay healthy he can eclipse that in 4 more seasons as far as yards goes. But just like Joe, Brady has never been a big time stat QB in his career, because that hasn't ever been the way their team has tried to win games other than two years ago when they finally brought in real weapons.

How about talking to you right now with a 50 TD season in the only year that Brady ever has had an elite WR which was after already winning 3 SB's.


Whether people want to admit it or not, Brady is already right there in Montana's league easily.

And another thing to add is that the Niners team was so good that they were able to win another SB when Joe wasn't even there, that's how good that team was that Joe was getting to play with using Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Tom Rathman, and Roger Craig on offense. Tom Brady never had anything even remotely close to that as far as weaponry until the last season he played.

I'm not saying that Brady is better than Montana was, but he's right there, and plays just like Joe played in a lot of aspects.