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Dunta Robinson IS BACK
- Thread starter SoCalTexanFan
- Start date
I'm with you there> SHOW ME THE W'S!!
And you keep ignoring the point that all he had to do was sign it and report. He didn't gain a damn thing by holding out.
eriadoc
Texan-American
First of all, it's a free country. He shouldn't be forced to sign anything. If he didn't want to sign, he didn't have to sign. Second, he did gain something - an injury-free preseason. With no prospect for security beyond this season, he did the one thing he could do to protect himself as much as he could.
I can just see it right now. Watch who the "Smith Kubiak haters" will point their fingers at if the "game ready" no CONTACT top 5 shut-down 'predator' gets lit gets up on Sunday.
You're wrong again. He would have been guaranteed the $10 million as soon as he signed. He could have broken his leg on the first play of scrimmage in training camp and still would have gotten the $10 million. He didn't gain anything by holding out.
That's a little misleading. How many players will see contact this week? If Kubiak thinks Robinson gives the team the best chance to win, that's his decision.
We know the Teflon men can do no wrong.
Kubiak's job is to put the best possible team on the field. The onus is on the head coach to get it right. The buck stops with Gary Kubiak.
silvrhand
All Pro
Some quotes that I found this morning:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6606037.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6606037.html
silvrhand
All Pro
I'm sorry but no injury in pre-season? Come on are you kidding me it's a LOT worse to go into the season not in football/contact shape. If you get hurt by some freak accident in pre-season, yah it sucks. In a game, going 110% you are much more likely to get hurt coming in cold instead of coming into the pre-season and getting your reps.
Sitting out for injury, that's crap. They could have worked that out fine, it was all about the money and how Dante felt he was getting "disrespected".
eriadoc
Texan-American
If I'm wrong, then you have reading comprehension issues.
No, he didn't. At least, I hope that's his excuse.
eriadoc
Texan-American
"They" didn't seem to be interested in working anything out, since negotiations stopped a long time ago. And just to be clear, I agree with your sentiment that "they" should have worked things out. But "they" includes more than just Robinson, who is all anyone here seems to think "they" involves. Both sides have equal blame in this, IMO. But at the end of the day, it's just business. Both sides did what they felt like they had to do, and I don't see the consistency in getting pissed at one side over the other.
eriadoc
Texan-American
The difference is what is deemed acceptable risk by the parties involved. If Dunta gets injured in practice like Reeves, for instance, he gets the ten million and he's out again until whenever. At that point, his value has declined even further. If Dunta gets hurt in a game at some point in the season, he at least has some game tape to show prospective employers what he can do. That same game tape halfway through the '07 season and for the latter half of the '08 season is probably a big reason why the Texans just didn't let him enter free agency.
As an aside, I'm not 100% sure that what you assert is true, either. If a player on a one-year deal gets injured in preseason, they are only receiving preseason pay, and an injury settlement usually ensues. I'm not clear as to the circumstances, but think of Cato June as an example. He didn't get his contract, he got an injury settlement. So unless the $9.x million is classified as a signing bonus, which is the only true guaranteed money in the NFL, Robinson is still playing for a paycheck each week.
Sure he did. He got to take the spring off.
And as long as he reports in shape, and plays well, I don't much care.
I'm with Lucky. Both sides share responsibility.
In fact, I'll take it a step further. I think both mgmt and Dunta knew how this little "saga" was going to unfold the whole, entire time. I'll bet some of the players - the ones that Dunta was close to - knew what the game was also.
Think about it.
Mgmt made absolutely NO move to entice Dunta to come in early nor did they indicate they were looking to recind their offer if he didn't show up by some deadline (say the start of T/C or the 3rd P/S game just to pick a couple out of the air).
And the only "compromise" Dunta made - to come in if Rick promised not to franchise him next year - is one he knew - HE KNEW - the Texans wouldn't budge on.
Face it my friends.
Any and everyone who got emotional about this issue may well have been PLAYED by both sides.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I agree with most of your points, but the franchise amount is 100% guaranteed from the moment it's signed - whether that's in May, or September.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Good to know. That was the point I was unclear on. Thanks.
aj. is pretty good with this. His post in the other thread refers to the tender from being franchised. At least that's what I got from it.
Hey, that's all I want, for him to play well on Sunday. I know a few around here won't believe it, but I just want the team to win also. And Dunta playing well give them the best chance.
I want to be clear on this. Am I a "Smith Kubiak hater" because I believe they share the responsibility of the results on the field? They have the power to pick the players, decide who of those players play, set up the offense/defense, call the plays, etc. They are also getting paid well to build a winner. With that power comes responsibility - just as the players have a responsibilty to perform to the best of their abilitlites and win.
I believe in other posts you have claimed Kubiak can't be blamed for losses. If you haven't, maybe I don't remember correctly; I haven't bothered looking. I really don't understand how someone can claim that the coaches aren't responsible for losses, especially if they also claim they are great coaches because they turned around a 2-14 team.
===========
I think I am labelled a Smith hater because I don't treat him as if he has no faults.
Nothing heals the wounds faster than success. I HOPE that D-Rob has multiple picks and shuts down his side of the field for the night against the Jets.
Do I think this is a likely scenario? No, but I can always hope! This team looks like they need a spark after a 'less-than-stellar' pre-season. I'll take the return of Pitts, Cushing and D-Rob to the starting lineup as the positive note I've been hoping for. I just hope it's enough and that all three aren't too rusty to play at or near 100%.
Do I think this is a likely scenario? No, but I can always hope! This team looks like they need a spark after a 'less-than-stellar' pre-season. I'll take the return of Pitts, Cushing and D-Rob to the starting lineup as the positive note I've been hoping for. I just hope it's enough and that all three aren't too rusty to play at or near 100%.
I don't speak for everyone, but that bold part is wrong. I think that original contract (w/ $23M guaranteed) was OK. I think it was taking a (pretty decent) gamble as to whether he was worth that much, especially coming off of the injury. But, I don't think it was unreasonable, and I'm not upset that they offered it. I'm also not upset with Dunta for turning it down, even though I feel it was very generous - that's his right, certainly, if he feels he could get much more. And, I don't feel he is a "sub-par" defender. I think he's one of the better defenders (my opinion of him has actually improved over the past several years), but I don't think he's one of the top 5 or even top 10 CBs. Probably more like top 20.
Given that they couldn't agree on the contract, the Texans took their only option and franchised him. I can't say I'm real happy with the team for doing this, since I think it is overpaying for his skill level. I also think that they might have let him look around at other teams, and their original offer or something close to it might have been accepted instead, since I don't think others would have offered much if any more. But, it's not an unreasonable option - it's only one year, and gives them a chance to see how well he recovers from his injury. In fact, it was probably their cheapest option to see how he would recover! He would not have signed for less guaranteed money, obviously. Given the team's need at CB (less so after this draft, though), it was not unreasonable to use the frachise tag.
At that point Dunta decided to not sign right away, while he could still negotiate with other teams, who would have to match or trade. No problem with this. But, at some point, he lost the ability to even do that. It is at that point that he became a holdout - refusing a (very very) generous salary, mainly to "pout." Sitting out from that point on does not help the team and it does not help him become a better player (it actually lowers his value to the team). Basically, Dunta's failure to show up for preseason hurts the team, and did not improve his own situation at all.
So, my feelings for the various parts of this, from 1-10 with 1 being "not at all bothered by it" and 10 being "incredibly bothered by it and I'm permanantly going to have a negative opinion as a result" would be something like:
Texans making original multi-year offer (as reported): 3
Dunta turning that offer down: 2
Texans using the franchise tag: 5
Dunta not signing while other teams could still negotiate with him: 1
Dunta not signing and choosing to sit out all pre-season after he had no other options if he wanted to play this year: 9
Texans not withdrawing the franchise tag after drafting two CBs and Dunta continuing to hold out: 3
gary
Hall of Fame
There isn't any doubt about it but just in case there was a sliver of doubt Dunte is surely back and got a nice welcome back by each and every one of his teamates.
http://www.chron.com/sports/
http://www.chron.com/sports/
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You have a right to criticize Smith and Kubiak for anything you feel like criticizing them for, Runner. Just as I have a right to criticize Dunta for anything that I feel like critcizing him for, without someone calling me, or anyone else who chooses to criticize him, "a Dunta hater".
What goes around comes around.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Marcus said:
I see. Kind of a name calling thing.
===========
My whole view of the "hater" word.*
1) I don't use it much, if at all. Something else I need to do a search on.
2) I see a lot of players criticized, fairly and unfairly, IMO. I don't consider that "hating". I think the race to see who can talk the toughest about Dunta (piece of ****, kiss my ass) cross a line away from intelligent discourse that could be termed "hating".
3) I don't see anyone calling Smith a worthless pos or the like because he can't get a negotiation completed recently, for picking Okoye so early, bad free agent signings, or any of the other things that aren't as perfect as those who can't accept any criticism of him make him out to be. Therefore, I wouldn't consider these criticisms "hating".
4) I think a lot of the toughest "he can kiss my ass" talkers would be the ones puckering if they met Dunta socially, for instance if they were randomly sharing a table at Benihana. That's just an opinion though.
* if anyone cares
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sorry, fixed the link.
gary
Hall of Fame
Thanks, great stuff some rep coming your way.
It's difficult to compare as franchise tag amounts are based upon positions. Robinson was the only CB to receive the franchise tag in 2009.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
I guess I must be a "Smithiak" hater too because I think they should be accountable just like anyone else.
Not to mention that's where the buck stops.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
I am not a Smithiak hater by no means. They have done a great job of putting talent on the field.
However, I will be a Kubiak hater if he challenges one more play.
I dont see how this is anybodies fault. It played out exactly how it should have. There is no way that the Texans could offer Drob a long term deal when you dont know what kind of player he will be. Which is why you franchise him for a season and see how he does. Then go from there. Drob did what was best for him and his family if he gets hurt in training camp or preseason then he gets nothing and then nobody is going to offer him a long term deal.
IMO this is the only way it could have played out.
IMO this is the only way it could have played out.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Agreed. Neverless, you can still read in between the lines on proven value, proven consistency and likeliness to continue top performance.
Of the players that were tagged, I would only rank Julius Peppers and Terrell Suggs above Robinson in those categories. Suggs received a long term deal and Peppers gets $16.7 million for a season's work.
That teams are franchising kickers and backups tells me how outdated the franchise tag has become. The salary cap has risen to such astronomical levels that even the most poorly run organizations can afford to keep any player they wish. The tag is used by manangement strictly as a leverage device, or a tool to keep a player without committing long term. No wonder players are so perturbed when getting tagged.
I guess what I don't understand is where this myth that Dunta wouldn't get any money if he got hurt in training camp comes from. I guess it's that old saying that if you repeat a lie long enough, it must be true.
gary
Hall of Fame
The man is a Texan now darn it and all this crap is over let's all just put this story to bed already and support Dunte the player and then after the season is over go from there. Right now we're just guessing on what caused all of this or how it all went down when we don't know for sure and nor will we ever know 100 percent what happend behind closed doors so we're just going round and round in one big circle. I have openly had my doubts about Dunte on this board but I support my team and Dunte is on that team him being a Texan is beyond our control wether you love him or hate him as you cheer for the team you also will be cheering on Dunte as well like it or not. Both sides should have handled it in a better manner but the clock won't turn back now it's all water under a bridge at this point so let's see how he does this season before we go gaga over him or look down on him. I am ready to win football games this season and if that means Dunte playing well and me screaming my lungs out to cheer him on then I'm all for that. GO TEXANS
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So who is going to give him a large long term contract if he does get hurt. Nobody in other word he gets nothing.
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
And...
Who is going to give him a long contract if he gets hurt during the season? Nobody in other words he gets nothing.
He really had nothing to lose by signing the tender and getting to camp. He was getting paid the minute he signed.
Anyway, I'm tired of talking about it. In reality he did win in the end. IF it takes him 2-3 weeks to get in game shape, then he gets $10 million to play in 13-14 games.
aww come onnn Gary. You know we like to fuss. If we put this behind us, what other juicy stuff will we have to argue about? ...who should be the #2 QB? Not nearly as juicy.
Get your yelling voices ready folks.
Season starts in 6 days!!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That's what disability insurance is for. Professional athletes, including "High profile athletes" have the option to obtain their own personal policies. Limits are based on value and potential earnings. The pay out numbers can be mind-boggling. But most choose to go with the cheaper NFLPA coverage.
gary
Hall of Fame
I feel like I am at a circus with a ring master already.aww come onnn Gary. You know we like to fuss. If we put this behind us, what other juicy stuff will we have to argue about? ...who should be the #2 QB? Not nearly as juicy.
Get your yelling voices ready folks.
Season starts in 6 days!!
barrett
All Pro
It's really about risk management. Every snap he would have taken in practices and meaningless games would have risked his future payout further. By the same account, you can argue that not practicing with his team and new DC could be just as big of a risk for the same payout.
It's complicated. That's really why I seriously doubt that it's about anyone "hating" anybody. (not saying that you specifically are suggesting that.) But there are alot of factors that make it complicated and then you sprinkle a little CBA mystery and you've got yourself a pretty good debate!
I'm not liking how this thread is going in general. Some guys are already looking for someone to blame if/when Dunta gets burned.
Truth of the matter is, it will be your fault. All of you who believe he is a top 5 CB.
He isn't, and has never been a top 5 CB. He can't cover the rice, much less an NFL #1 WR. Well, he can keep an NFL #1 from getting major YaC, and there is some value there. But he isn't much for preventing the catch in the first place, which is what we need.
He's got burnt before, will be burnt again.... to expect otherwise is comical.
Not to mention even the best will get burnt now and again.
Truth of the matter is, it will be your fault. All of you who believe he is a top 5 CB.
He isn't, and has never been a top 5 CB. He can't cover the rice, much less an NFL #1 WR. Well, he can keep an NFL #1 from getting major YaC, and there is some value there. But he isn't much for preventing the catch in the first place, which is what we need.
He's got burnt before, will be burnt again.... to expect otherwise is comical.
Not to mention even the best will get burnt now and again.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Perhaps he isn't a top 5 CB. That being said, we sure can use his aggressiveness, physicality, tackling ability, and playmaking ability. He doesn't allow us to roll our safeties away from his side of the field every play but I'm guessing that he's going to make a heck of a lot of plays with this season's pass rush and agressive philosophy. I'm glad he's back!
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
If Dunta was just a little taller. Like two inches. 
He's been a big part of our run defense. With him in the game, you can't run to his side.
But that's also the reason he will get burned. He is very aggresive. He's very instinctive. He likes to get his nose in the middle of it.
We need him to play the pass. We need him to take Cotchery(sp) or whatever WR is on his side of the field out of the game.
With Mario & Cushing playing the edges, hopefully, we won't need Dunta to force the run back inside.
I'm glad he's back..... don't get me wrong. But I hope he's better than that guy we saw at the end of 2008.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ridiculous. Dunta was in PERFECT position. Collins just threw a perfect pass & we all know that a perfect pass beats perfect coverage anyday of the week & twice on sundays.
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dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Are you also a J. Reeves fan? because, Reeves is consistently in good position and forces good throws by the QB. However, most on this board, can't stand the guy because of his inability to consistently play the ball.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Actually, iirc, Dunta was doing a pretty good Reeves impersonation on that play. Perfect position and not even looking back for the ball.
I'm hoping that was a Hoke thing and that we'll start looking back now that we've got a new DB coach.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Welcome back Robinson...now get a haircut! Nobody's wearing dreadlocks anymore!
