Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Fire Frank Bush

We gave Richard Smith 3 seasons to prove himself (or in his case fail). The least we could do is give Frank Bush 3 pre-season games, especially considering that defenses never blitz or show anything during the pre-season. What's next, saying Kyle Shanahan should be fired because we only scored 14 points in the pre-season?
 
Could we have at least waited until after a few games in the regular season to start a fire (insert name) thread? I was disappointed as anyone Saturday night but c'mon!
 
Brando said:
Could we have at least waited until after a few games in the regular season to start a fire (insert name) thread? I was disappointed as anyone Saturday night but c'mon!
Click to expand...

Dont try to unhijack a Highjacked thread by sticking to the topic.

We are talking about Babes, chili, new smilies, and people we dont like. :ant:
 
LORK 88 said:
What's next, saying Kyle Shanahan should be fired because we only scored 14 points in the pre-season?
Click to expand...
I thought Baby Shanny made some sorry calls last night. But hey, this is Frank's thread.:texflag:
 
First off, if you've been listening to Texans Chick, the players, and myself, it should be no surprise, that we're not going to have a new intricate system. For those of you waiting for the regular season, hoping to see some "scheme"..... get it out now. It ain't going to happen. We may blitz a little more than we did last year, but that's about it.


What's really going to be interesting to see, is how quick so many of the guys in this thread is going to flip, when the regular season starts, and we look decent to good on defense. When our stats has us in the top 20, or the 15...

Truth be told, we really won't be much better than we are now. The level of competition will. Yesterday, we got beyotch slapped by the Saints. Next week the Vikings will give us the Pimp hand. Then our second/third/fourth string guys will play the bucks.....

Then we'll play the Jets, the Titans, Jacksonville, and Oakland. Decent running games all of them, but questionable passing games. We'll stack the box, and keep them contained.

But everybody is going to think we've gotten a lot better all of a sudden.

Arizona can't run the ball. Cincinnatti can't run the ball... San Fran?? One sided now, but by that time in the season, who knows who they'll be?

NYJ, Tennessee Titans, & New England Patriots are the only top 10 running teams we'll face this year. Only New England is balanced enough to present a real problem. But by the time we face them, hopefully we'll have our stuff together.
 
Hervoyel said:
I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving a noob a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Herv. You know where I am coming from and are wise enough to see how this could possibly play out moving forward....I can already hear the coachspeak if this 'experiment' fails. I just don't know what Frank Bush has done to show he was the most qualified candidate other than the fact that he is friends with Kubes and coached for the Broncos. THe franchise owed it to itself to look outside for a DC.

It looked like the same ole same ole out there in their pace and their energy. I know its just preseason but that is the same garbage we have heard every preseason when our defense looks flat and the scheme sucks. We hear 'Wer'e not running all our packages' or even the dreaded 'We just have to get our players to EXECUTE'.

And the title of the thread could have been 'Is Richard Smith still our DC?' but thats not as provocative and fun as 'Fire Frank Bush'...and its like buying a domain name or something. Maybe I should godaddy.com and buy up www.firefrankbush.com
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Thanks, Herv. You know where I am coming from and are wise enough to see how this could possibly play out moving forward....I can already hear the coachspeak if this 'experiment' fails. I just don't know what Frank Bush has done to show he was the most qualified candidate other than the fact that he is friends with Kubes and coached for the Broncos. THe franchise owed it to itself to look outside for a DC.

It looked like the same ole same ole out there in their pace and their energy. I know its just preseason but that is the same garbage we have heard every preseason when our defense looks flat and the scheme sucks. We hear 'Wer'e not running all our packages' or even the dreaded 'We just have to get our players to EXECUTE'.

And the title of the thread could have been 'Is Richard Smith still our DC?' but thats not as provocative and fun as 'Fire Frank Bush'...and its like buying a domain name or something. Maybe I should godaddy.com and buy up www.firefrankbush.com
Click to expand...

Hey the offense sucked in game one after Schaub left and sucked in this game as well. You failed to mention that. Also vy looked great in preseason game number 2 but sucked in game 2. Not to mention their D sucked really bad against the cowgirls. It is preseason ... I know you like pointing fingers early but can we wait until after two reg season games?
 
2008 Preseason:

Week 1, the VIkings give up 34 points to the Seahawks.
Minnesota finished with the 6th best defense that season.

Week 2, the Steelers give up 24 to the Bills. Edwards goes 9/11 with 2 TDs against Pitts 1s.
Pittsburg ends up with the #1 ranked defense.

Week 2, Giants give up 34 to the Browns.
Giants end up with 5th ranked defense.

Week 3, the Redskins give up 47 to the Panthers. 3rd preseason game is mostly starters.
Redskins end up with 4th ranked d unit that year.


Its preseason. Its one game. If this turns into a trend, then we can start worrying.
 
Specnatz said:
Hey the offense sucked in game one after Schaub left and sucked in this game as well. You failed to mention that. Also vy looked great in preseason game number 2 but sucked in game 2. Not to mention their D sucked really bad against the cowgirls. It is preseason ... I know you like pointing fingers early but can we wait until after two reg season games?
Click to expand...

point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak. The 1st Team has done a good job eliminating turnovers and other than Duane Brown, the 1st Team has looked pretty good as a whole. I mean it sounds so bad to say 'fire' but the guy shouldn't have even been hired in the first place. UNHIRE FRANK BUSH is better, eh? Like a quickie Vegas marriage, couldn't we just get an annullment and have a mulligan.

like tkyss mentioned, it has been confirmed by players that the scheme is the same scheme just 'more aggressive'....nice. a scheme doesn't work for 3 years and you fire a coach just so you can bring one of the coach's assistants to run the same scheme? a coach with no DC experience and a very spotty track record?

Really?

As for how Bush's hiring will effect Kubiak if things go bad moving forward, who knows? But the defense has needed to be fixed since Kubiak got here and Year 4 is looking like same ole same ole.

I did see 'some good things from the defense'. DeMeco showed some fire and looked healthy. Mario's sack was a lame rule away from being a forced fumble. Barwin made some plays. I haven't gone back and watched the game on the DVR and from the endzone its tough to really see how good the DL were getting off the snap.
 
gtexan02 said:
2008 Preseason:

Week 1, the VIkings give up 34 points to the Seahawks.
Minnesota finished with the 6th best defense that season.

Week 2, the Steelers give up 24 to the Bills. Edwards goes 9/11 with 2 TDs against Pitts 1s.
Pittsburg ends up with the #1 ranked defense.

Week 2, Giants give up 34 to the Browns.
Giants end up with 5th ranked defense.

Week 3, the Redskins give up 47 to the Panthers. 3rd preseason game is mostly starters.
Redskins end up with 4th ranked d unit that year.


Its preseason. Its one game. If this turns into a trend, then we can start worrying.
Click to expand...

Those were all aberrations that were easily identifiable at the time. The Texans defense's performance already is a trend. What people want to see is an aberration - one where they stop the other team.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak. The 1st Team has done a good job eliminating turnovers and other than Duane Brown, the 1st Team has looked pretty good as a whole. I mean it sounds so bad to say 'fire' but the guy shouldn't have even been hired in the first place. UNHIRE FRANK BUSH is better, eh? Like a quickie Vegas marriage, couldn't we just get an annullment and have a mulligan.

like tkyss mentioned, it has been confirmed by players that the scheme is the same scheme just 'more aggressive'....nice. a scheme doesn't work for 3 years and you fire a coach just so you can bring one of the coach's assistants to run the same scheme? a coach with no DC experience and a very spotty track record?

Really?

As for how Bush's hiring will effect Kubiak if things go bad moving forward, who knows? But the defense has needed to be fixed since Kubiak got here and Year 4 is looking like same ole same ole.

I did see 'some good things from the defense'. DeMeco showed some fire and looked healthy. Mario's sack was a lame rule away from being a forced fumble. Barwin made some plays. I haven't gone back and watched the game on the DVR and from the endzone its tough to really see how good the DL were getting off the snap.
Click to expand...

In other words you went off. You put your mouth in motion before you put your brain in gear? Does that about cover it?
 
Second Honeymoon said:
point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak. The 1st Team has done a good job eliminating turnovers and other than Duane Brown, the 1st Team has looked pretty good as a whole. I mean it sounds so bad to say 'fire' but the guy shouldn't have even been hired in the first place. UNHIRE FRANK BUSH is better, eh? Like a quickie Vegas marriage, couldn't we just get an annullment and have a mulligan.
Click to expand...

A bit off topic but Duane has looked improved in pass protection to me. By a good bit actually. He has been pretty much mirroring his guy and forcing him around Schaub. I haven't paid much attention to him in the running game but the line as a whole hasn't been good there and I'm not worried about his run blocking as much as his pass protection. A couple penalties but, eh, I can chalk that up to preseason more easily than the entire collapse of the defense. He hasn't faced a good rusher yet though so this week against Minny will tell me more but I can't fault him for the competition he has had to face.
 
Come on guys, it's just preseason. Don't be frustrated, better times are coming. I'm sure of that! :texflag:
 
Second Honeymoon said:
point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak.
Click to expand...
The offense showed that it could put points on the board because it was actually given a CHANCE to. Something your not willing to give Bush's defense. How can Bush prove anything if you're wanting him fired before his defense even takes the field for a real NFL game.
 
Before you talk about firing a coach, I really think you should watch some tape of Okoye, Bennett and Smith. They all looked pretty suspect last night.
 
gtexan02 said:
Its preseason. Its one game. If this turns into a trend, then we can start worrying.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. We saw what I think the coaches saw Saturday night. The coaches should be concerned now. I think. Next week, if we see the same thing, I think we should start worrying.

It's just a preseason game, I don't want anyone to get hurt, but they can get hurt just as bad by not trying.

I'll get to watch the game for the first time tonight. I'll try to identify what I think the problems are. Playing too high.... too slow off the ball.... awareness..... just getting out-muscled....

In my mind, there will be things I want to see against the Vikings. If I see the same issues Monday, that I'll see tonight, then IMHO, we all have reason to worry.
 
These are Kubiak's words on Sunday.

"Bottom line, we weren't physical enough," Kubiak said. "We were very, very poor against the run. There were some missed assignments that also led to that. It's not the group that I've seen practice the last two weeks, so it's disappointing as we try to move forward here and move onto this week. We took a step backward last night."

Aside from the play of linebacker DeMeco Ryans, Kubiak said it was hard to find any positives from the defense's performance. The Texans will have a chance to rebound on Monday Night Football against the Vikings, who had the No. 5 rushing offense and No. 1 rushing defense in the league last season.
Click to expand...

Not exactly fire Frank Bush..... he seems to blame the players more than anything. Which may very well be the case.
 
Shaft75 said:
Before you talk about firing a coach, I really think you should watch some tape of Okoye, Bennett and Smith. They all looked pretty suspect last night.
Click to expand...

True, and there were more than just those 3.

Our D works against the ZBS on a daily basis. There were several ZBS stretch plays run by NO that completely destroyed our D. Players getting schooled by your own offensive scheme = Priceless!
 
I don't think we shoud fire Frank Bush yet, but I do think that SH and others have legitimate reason for concern. I also don't like the promotion of Frank Bush from within instead of going outside and getting someone with a fresh perspective and ideas who's not tied to Kubiak because of the job. We don't need a yes man for a D-coordinator. Only time will tell if Frank Bush can bring something fresh to this defense and improve our defensive ranking but if we continue to see the same old thing and there's no marked improvement by the 5th or 6th game of the year then there needs to be some a$$ chewing going on and possibly a midseason D-coordinator change made. Also McNair needs to hold Kubiak and Smith responsible for these failures in coaching. I also can't help but wonder if the promotion of Bush from within wasn't a money saving move by McNair instead of paying a high priced proven D-coordinator.
 
As has been pointed out many times, this is the guy Kubiac wanted to run his defense all along. Well, Kubiac's got his wish. I'm with yall on the defense stinking up the place Saturday, but let's wait and see what this guy has. Kubiac likes him for some reason, so for the time being that's good enough for me.
 
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.

I'm willing to give Bush a chance, but the fact that Gregg Williams never got an interview over here is a joke.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I don't think we shoud fire Frank Bush yet, but I do think that SH and others have legitimate reason for concern. I also don't like the promotion of Frank Bush from within instead of going outside and getting someone with a fresh perspective and ideas who's not tied to Kubiak because of the job. We don't need a yes man for a D-coordinator. Only time will tell if Frank Bush can bring something fresh to this defense and improve our defensive ranking but if we continue to see the same old thing and there's no marked improvement by the 5th or 6th game of the year then there needs to be some a$$ chewing going on and possibly a midseason D-coordinator change made. Also McNair needs to hold Kubiak and Smith responsible for these failures in coaching. I also can't help but wonder if the promotion of Bush from within wasn't a money saving move by McNair instead of paying a high priced proven D-coordinator.
Click to expand...

Nobody wants to blame the owner because that's admitting that we're likely to grow 30 years older and continue to see the same story play itself out every four years.

So the natural conclusion is that it's either the players, or the coaching, or the GM, or a combination of all three. It can never be the owner.

If it's the owner, then there's no hope.

Jerry Jones hasn't looked so brilliant since he hired Jimmy Johnson. Of course, there was the Herschel Walker-to-Minnesota trade that netted the Cowboys a huuuuuuuge amount of player talent. And Jimmy was surrounded by very competitive coordinators at all the positions. When Barry Switzer can come in and win a SB right off the bat, you know your team was stacked!

But since then? The 'Boys have been rocky, at best. So how good is Jerry Jones as an owner? He inherited a franchise that had a huuuuge cult-like following to begin with. He happened upon Jimmy Johnson, and they engineered some trades, and hit on some draft picks at the same time.

Point blank: Things came together into the perfect storm for them.

I think we're near. The offense looks good. It'll be the defense that needs a big push.
 
Damn, give the guy a break.

I didn't like that we hired from within because I feel like he should have been able to make some difference while he was here before if he's great, but I understand that the DC makes the calls, so Bush couldn't be held responsible for the past. I also know that Kubiak wanted him in the first place, so the hire is so so to me.

But we gave Smith an extra year longer than we should have, so let's give Bush at least another game. lol Damn, you guys are hard.
 
Mr. White said:
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.
Click to expand...

We're playing without our starting center, starting left guard, starting right guard(did Briesel play?) and a second year Left Tackle......

Are you sure what he's doing is working????
 
Mr. White said:
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.

I'm willing to give Bush a chance, but the fact that Gregg Williams never got an interview over here is a joke.
Click to expand...

The Aint's defense sucked. We went right down the field and scored. We would of continued to score if out ones were left in. Instead Dan Ono! was thrown in.

Its just a preseason game people, relax. Not even the Colts have looked good.
 
Mr. White said:
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.

I'm willing to give Bush a chance, but the fact that Gregg Williams never got an interview over here is a joke.
Click to expand...
yep, The league operates at 55 mph but the Texans operate at 35 mph on the feeder road of the NFL. This team is slow to make decisions and they tend to take chances with too many unproven commodities in experiments that take years to unwind. It's like extending Carr when you had an escape clause. You built that in to protect yourself....but when it comes time to dump damaged goods, you extend it because he's such a nice guy and you set your franchise back for a couple of more years.
 
Personally I feel pretty crappy about our defense for this year. Besides getting Cushing and Dunta, both of whom we haven't seen on the field yet, what have we done? We took our senior defensive assistant from the defense that ranked 24th and 22nd and prompted him to Defensive Coordinator. We hired Bill Kollar from the Bills which was a good move IMO. I have a feeling that our front 4 will be better as a unit. Here is our regular season rankings for Defense for the existence of the Texans.

2008 Rank# 22
2007 Rank# 24
2006 Rank# 24
2005 Rank# 31
2004 Rank# 23
2003 Rank# 31
2002 Rank# 16

Not very impressive. Our best defensive season came when we had mostly transplants from teams with seasoned NFL defensive coaches. Besides our inaugural season when we were ranked #16, in 7 complete NFL seasons we have yet to put together a top 20 defense.

The final point I want to make is that if you are good on defense, or good on offense, it tends to show at least a little in the pre-season whether or not they are playing vanilla schemes. If you are good, you are good. And until the Texans go into Heinz field, or Gillette Stadium and lay the smack down on a very good offensive team, I will feel no differently about our ability to scheme and gameplan.
 
with the same, or worse personnel, we were able to beat some pretty good rushing teams last season in the Jags, Titans, and Packers, and also came very close against the Vikings.


bit too early for this...

2007-03-19PanicButton.jpg
 
GP said:
Nobody wants to blame the owner because that's admitting that we're likely to grow 30 years older and continue to see the same story play itself out every four years.

So the natural conclusion is that it's either the players, or the coaching, or the GM, or a combination of all three. It can never be the owner.
Click to expand...

I call BS. There are plenty of folks on this board that call it like it is, and if McNair was the problem, he'd be called out on this board (like that would matter). The owner of a franchise has to walk a fine line between too much and too little involvement. McNair made rookie mistakes with C&C, to be sure, but he's shown the willingness to correct those problems. I sure as hell don't want an owner who changes coaches every three years. If you give a guy a chance, give him a real chance. Then if he fails, you can move on with a clear conscience. I think Kubiak is entering his deal-breaker year, personally. If he still doesn't get it done, move on. If he comes close to getting ti done (better than 8-8, but no playoffs), then maybe you evaluate that and add one more year, maybe not.

I absolutely do not think McNair has done anything wrong in the Kubiak era, and I rather like having an owner who hires the experts and lets them do their jobs. I like that he hasn't been too quick with the hook, just like I won't like it if he keeps Kubiak on in a stagnant or declining role.
 
eriadoc said:
I absolutely do not think McNair has done anything wrong in the Kubiak era, and I rather like having an owner who hires the experts and lets them do their jobs. I like that he hasn't been too quick with the hook, just like I won't like it if he keeps Kubiak on in a stagnant or declining role.
Click to expand...

The problem doc, is that there will never be agreement on what's a stagnant or declining role.
 
Lucky said:
I thought Baby Shanny made some sorry calls last night. But hey, this is Frank's thread.:texflag:
Click to expand...

I'm with you. Our three fumbles and two INTs worry me as much as the defense's "showing". Three turnovers (could have been 5) does not inspire confidence in the offense. Even A.J. put one on the ground.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)
Click to expand...

fuknoqw0.gif
 
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO for this thread. What crap.
 
It is never too early for a Fire thread, that is what we do as fans. I am more interested to see what adjustments Bush makes week over week.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
It is never too early for a Fire thread, that is what we do as fans. I am more interested to see what adjustments Bush makes week over week.
Click to expand...

And that may be the real test here.

Richard Smith showed zero ability to evolve as a coordinator. Frank's ability (or inability) to grow and scheme quickly and effectively could be the number one storyline for us this season.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
It is never too early for a Fire thread, that is what we do as fans. I am more interested to see what adjustments Bush makes week over week.
Click to expand...

drewmar74 said:
And that may be the real test here.

Richard Smith showed zero ability to evolve as a coordinator. Frank's ability (or inability) to grow and scheme quickly and effectively could be the number one storyline for us this season.
Click to expand...
buying our DT's a ship anchor is against the rules.
 
GP said:
Whew! I thought it was me. :bender:

Everyone on here has at least one person they don't click with.

I suspect I'm on that list for about 90% of the posters here.
Click to expand...
I think we put that number at 83.25 last week, but you have stayed out of the nsz so expect that number to drop.
 
Vinny said:
Whew! I thought it was me. :bender:

Everyone on here has at least one person they don't click with.

I suspect I'm on that list for about 90% of the posters here.
Click to expand...
I think we put that number at 83.25 last week, but you have stayed out of the nsz so expect that number to drop.
Click to expand...

Good one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top