TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
What's been reported was that the Texans requested permission to interview Jerry Gray (Redskins secondary coach/former Oiler). When the Redskins denied us permission we hired Bush.
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Kubes on the hotseat????
- Thread starter jshabang
- Start date
What's been reported was that the Texans requested permission to interview Jerry Gray (Redskins secondary coach/former Oiler). When the Redskins denied us permission we hired Bush.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Who is spinning it as great success? Most posts I have read here are very realistic and agree it's mediocre....it is what it is. Two back to back seasons of 8-8, no better no worse. I don't see it as great success nor do I see it as complete failure, I see it as a step in the right direction. To be perpetually mediocre would suck no doubt, but we have been a bad team that has just now got to mediocre. I think we are a team on the rise and the past two season are just part of the process, these things take time and hopefully this year we take a big step forward. I hope I am right.
No, obviously I'm not smarter than that. If we're using your reasoning, and the W-L column as our guage for success, then you've got 2006, the year they went to the NFC Championship game as a year they got much better than their previous year...... what did they win, 4 games in 2005, the year Katrina ripped through New Orleans, and then two steady years of decline.
Why would I want a year of unexplained improvement, followed by two years of no improvement.
My question, "is the team getting better"? You are using W-L to help you determine that. I'm saying watch the games, is the team getting better, or worse. In our case, we are getting better. In the Saints case, they are getting worse.
You say you prefer the team W-L record showing the team getting worse,
I'm saying I prefer the team W-L record that shows us getting marginally better than the one showing them getting worse.
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Teams like the Saints, Jets, Rams, Falcons, Miami usually sign big name FA to get that quick turn around in the W-L column. If they could follow that up with solid draft picks, and real coaching (not game management, but player development) then they'll continue to have success.
I'd have preferred to do the FA thing, and the draft thing, but Smithiak chose to do it on the draft alone. As such, you're going to get "mediocrity spun as success" I'm not saying we are where I want us to be, I'm just saying I understand it takes time to build real success through the draft.
And it doesn't make sense to me, to fire the chief architect four years after breaking ground, when the foundation is clearly in place, and sound.
P
Polo
Guest
Head coaches get too much blame and take too much credit.
/endthread
/endthread
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I'd probably feel the same. BUT, if those two mediocre season's end up being the foundation of an organization that can win consistantly year in, year out, I'd take it.
I know, hindsight, yada, yada.
That'd be the QB, IMO. The W/L's should fall on the coach's shoulders. I think the GM and the coach should be held accountable.
I just can't get my eyes to go out of focus with a beatific look on my my face and "know" that building the team slowly guarantees years of success for the Texans.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Man, I thought my Tennyson post was hilarious, but it isn't getting any airtime.
At least I got to laugh at my own joke.
You're a legend in your own mind.
GNTLEWOLF
Rookie
I’ve been reading the discussions on this topic for quite some time. From all that I have read it is clear to me that we as fans all hope Kubiak and the Texans under him progress to the next level and finally turn in a convincing winning season and maybe the play-offs. It has been pointed out before that this is his 4rth year and he has yet to produce a single winning season. Not one. His game management has been iffy at best, and he tends to choose assistants from his circle of friends rather than interview people outside his circle. I have to say if this team does not show a significant improvement in the won/loss record this season then Kubiak had better be on a hot seat. For me, 9-7 won’t cut it. I’m looking at 10-6 and a noticeable improvement in the defensive side of the football before I say extend his contract. For those of you who give the team stability argument, let’s look at the record of another popular coach who was hired to turn an organization around and has been with his job since 2003 and is still about breaking even. Marvin Lewis has hovered around 500 since being in Cincinnati. Oh, he has had up and down years, like in 2005 with an 11-5 record and last season with a 4-11-1 record, but usually about 500 ball. For the sake of “Stability” the Bengals have opted to keep him around and seem to be satisfied with 500 ball. How sad for an organization that has been to two Super Bowls. No, If Kubiak can’t get past the 500 mark and I still consider 9-7 at that mark, his job should be in jeopardy. I believe he has two more years, 2009 and 2010 or he is gone.
GP
Go Texans!
The only problem I see with throwing out Marvin Lewis' name is that he destroyed that team by acquiring too many trouble-makers and law-breakers. Any temporary success he had was lost as things started to crumble with countless arrests, suspensions, and overall distractions. Throw in Chad Johnson into that equation, as well as a pitiful running game that sees Cedric Benson as the solution to its woes....and well, I don't think Marvin's team compares to this team.
We're building the right way, but some people are freaking out and laying down all these ultimatums.
Maybe Kubiak is a stop-gap (a bandage on the wound caused by Capers/Casserly) and maybe he's not the guy to get it done. We have to be open to that. But I think he's done a great job, and I'd hate to see it scrapped so we can go buy a bag of magic beans.
I guess some people are already preparing for a bad year.
GP
Go Texans!
Mike Smith and Tony Sparano disagree with you.
The Falcons were in a weak division. I give credit to their run game, and to the new QB who stabilized that position. Out of the two teams you mentioned, the Falcons are easily the better team. But their division existed of pretty weak teams, can't we agree on that? No comparison to the other divisions.
And the Dolphins' schedule was a joke. They caught a Brady-less Patriots team, as well as what I deem to be a lot of sub-par teams last season. They couldn't beat us, so that says something.
GNTLEWOLF
Rookie
There may indeed be some who are preparing for a bad year. I am not one of them. I have actually been more optimistic this year than any other year since the Texans inception. It looks like a good draft so far from this side. I still wish we could find a really good CB and a really good Rb to spell Slaton, But I like what I've seen so far. To me all that optimism , and a decent draft are all the more reason to feel That Kubiak and the Texans should show significant progress and possibly play-offs this year. We expect that. Another 500 season will not cut it. And I really don't have any reason to believe the Texans won't improve significantly. But really, if it is another 8-8or 9-7, or 7-9 season is it realistic to think that Kubiak will not be on the hot seat?
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
I think that they're just demanding accountability. If he can get it done this year, then we keep him. If he can't, then it's time to start exploring other options. That's the way that the rest of the NFL does business.
The main problem that I have with the organization is that it doesn't know when to cut bait on a guy. I don't really care where he's from, how good of a speaker he is, where he went to school...if he can't field a winner, then I'd rather get someone who can.
While I'm sure that part of being a good fan is believing that your head coach will take you to the promised land, the fact of the matter is that it doesn't work that way.
GP
Go Texans!
So you're willing to play Head Coach Lotto?
Scribble in a head coach, see if it works out, and cut bait if it doesn't. Scribble in a head coach, see if it works out, and cut bait if it doesn't. I sort of like what's going on here, myself. The last half of the season was what I had originally envisioned when we hired Gary Kubiak. I expect some years to be great years, some years to be good years, and a season every now and then where you think "Gee, he had a bad year" but it gets followed up by a good year or a great year. Up until Kubiak, the years were all bad years. Fluke moments got us some wins. Period.
We could arrive at 8-8 or 7-9 a lot of different ways, especially through key injuries or just plain old bad luck on some plays that bounced the other ways. Factor in a dumb Texans penalty that might advance the other team into game-winning field goal range, or the refs calling a horrific game that just keeps us on the outside looking in during the whole game. There's no end to the reasons as to why we might lose some games that we shold've won.
I think we're at the point where the playing field, on whose fault it is for losses, is being leveled. In the old days, we'd haggle over whether the coaches or the players were the main culprit. With the talent that we have acquired, don't we have to expect that the coaches do their jobs...but that the players also answer for some of what they do or don't do on the field? The old adage "We don't have enough quality players to blame this on what happens on the field" is over. It's accountability time for everyone.
If this is the year of no excuses for the coaches, then same goes for basically the whole freaking defense. Oh, and by the way: Kubiak built what became the 3rd-ranked offense. And he took it over when it was just a few pieces of molded bread, marbles, and silly putty. I'll trust that over the past few seasons, he has seen our defense and knows that this adjustment ought to get it done.
I've read lots of pissin' and moanin' about Kubiak choosing Frank Bush. People here don't think it was smart, and therefore they are already biased in seeing to it that it fails--Or at least that's what I was told by the fans here when I said I didn't think Schaub could make it. I think an old friend of mine on here said something to the effect of: You've shown that you have a vested interest in seeing to it that Schaub fails, so in essence you're rooting for it to fail so you can prove your point. Wouldn't it be easier to root for him to succeed?
That stuff cuts both ways. Now we have a section of the message board who is already envisioning this magical hot seat for Gary Kubiak. LOL. At some point, message board posters can become obsessed with sticking to their pet point until they see it materialize before them. I got it wrong on Carr, and cut bait halfway through his last year here. Along the same line, I also think I got it wrong on Schaub and Kubiak, based on what I saw in the last half of the season.
I know a little bit about being wrong. I can spot it a mile away. I'm a wrongologist. Which doesn't pay very well. [/sarcasm]
You guys can now go back to deciding on what formula and criteria it will take for the head coach to be on the hot seat for a bad season that hasn't happened yet. By the way, Texans_Chick's blog entry on this topic was very good and is worth a read by everyone scanning this thread.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I think that you're being to harsh on people that believe Kubes is on the hot seat or close to it. Kubes will be in his 4th season this year and if the Texans can't do 10-6 or better, then what is the point really? He's had his 3 years to get this team ready mentally and physically, and so now it's time to turn that corner. Other coaches have done it within this amount of time already, so it's time for Kubiak to show the fans that he can field a winning team that looks like it might stick around as a winner for quite a few years.
Sorry, but those are expectations. They are what they are, and anything less would be paying a guy just to be a coach and not a winning coach.
I haven't been an advocate of Kubiak since year 1 was over personally, and I'm not going to go into why right now in this thread, but at the same time I think I've been quite fair. I hope that he shows that he is the right guy for the job for many years and that all of my negative suspicions I had about him here and there are washed away. However though, I'll judge him this year according to what my reasonable expectations are for this team this season. I think that 10-6 should be minimum expectations at this point. I don't want to hear about injuries really either, because every team has injuries and great coaches and teams find ways to work around that, and if certain injuries happen to fall on a guy like Schaub whom Kubes has basically put all his chips and confidence in, then there will be no excuse because that was who Kubes wanted and who the team has put their chances in. Kubes knew what he was doing when he put all of his chips in on Schaub who was unproven when we got him, and so it's highly likely that Kubes just might live and die by what Schaub does just like just about every other HC does.
GP
Go Texans!
I actually see Matt Schaub as being on more of a hot seat than Kubiak is, if we're talking turkey here.
I think this offense is QB-friendly, especially with what Sage was able to do (this is where the jokes come flying in...copter-style). So I see Matt Schaub's situation as this: He's sort of like a car that you spent two years paying off, you're free and clear of it, and if he doesn't work out...you go out and get another car and start making payments again. You might even find a better car
That'll rub people the wrong way to think of it in such terms, but listen: We paid our 2 2nd rounders for what was, at the time, the only viable QB that Smithiak identified as being able to come in and start--he wasn't a rookie right out of college like most new franchise QBs are; he'd held the clip board and had played a few games already.
If Matt can't last (injuries or whatever) we either go QB high in next year's draft, or trade Matt away to a team that wants to gamble on the guy. There was a market for Rosencopter...so there would be a market for a Schaub unless he is on a motorized scooter.
If the oline continues to play better, which it should, and Schaub plays the way he played those last few games, which he could, then I expect 10-6 is easily attainable. But if we fall a few wins short of that, due to circumstances outside a coach's control, then I can't see us hitting the panic button on the coach. Maybe on a player or two, but not the coach. Now if the whole team doesn't show up? Yeah, that's a coach problem.
Sorry if I was too harsh. A little sleepy and irritable right now.
P
Polo
Guest
When the team begins to regress Kubiak will be on the hotseat.
Bronco Texan
Waterboy
I see it as a proactive move by Kubes. His name wasn't even close to being on the hotseat when he made that move. I think that Kubes knew if he had another failure of a season with Dick Smith as his DC then he would be on the Hot Seat. Now with Smith gone and Bush in charge if the D doesn't get up to par he can blame it on a rebuilding year, even though there wont be much rebuilding. He his seat would be getting warm, but not as warm as it would be if Smith were still around.
I think the Bush move gives him atleast two more year. If he goes 8-8 again with a mediocore D, he can say "well I finally got my guy, lets give him time to pan out."
2008 NFC South Standings
Carolina Panthers 12-4
Atlanta Falcons 11-5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9-7
New Orleans Saints 8-8
34-18 (.653) outside of division (Best in the NFL)
11-5 (.688) Non-conference (Tied for best in the NFL)
We can agree that the NFC South was not comparable to other divisions. That's about all I can agree with.
Why must the Sunshine Club continue to discount the success of other teams in order to inflate the success of the Texans? The Atlanta Falcons were a better team than the Houston Texans were in 2008. They weren't more talented. They didn't play in a cupcake division. They didn't have more time to "gel". They just played better, smarter football.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
As it stands right now, with our schedule looking the way it does, then I'll agree.... based on last years standings, we have a fairly easy schedule. But if the AFC East ends up having 3 teams that finish better than 10-6, and the NFC West turns out the same way, our schedule would in fact turn out to be one of the toughest. 10-6 may not turn out to be so reasonable after all.
What if Kubiak comes down with pneumonia, and is out for 3 weeks, should we blame him for not going 10-6?
All I'm saying, is that anything can happen. We'd be better off to look back at the end of the season, and determine if our expectations were reasonable, then make our decision from there.
I don't care, if we go 4-12...... if we improve significantly on every single stat, except red zone efficiency, then I'll be happy, because I know the wins will be coming.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
because some fans struggle with objectivity. They will try to spin any honest and valid criticism into some pie-in-the-sky land of excuses and retarded logic.
there is a lot to be happy about in Texans fanland. we have arguably the best WR in the league. we have one of the better young DL in the league. we had a rookie show great promise and productivity in 2009. we have managed to develop decent depth on our OL. and with Schaub we have a guy who can burn the defense.
that doesnt mean that Texans fanland is a wistful land of unicorns and rainbows. there are some ugly truths and some less than desirable trends. our defense was horrible and we have a rookie DC who was partially responsible for the defensive product put on the field the last 2 years. our offense had trouble on 3rd and short and in the red zone.
Kubiak has done a less than adequate job of getting the team prepared and motivated on a week-to-week basis...and don't give me that mularkey that they should motivate themselves because they are pro or getting paid...give me a break. Outside of the QB position, there is no greater factor in NFL success than your head coach.
We owe it ourselves to consider replacing Kubiak if the team doesn't improve both in record and in performance. It's a results based league and with proper motivation and game management (a kubiak weakness) you can turn things around a helluva lot faster than 4 years...and if Kubiak can't do it in 4 years then he needs to send his resume to Shanahan.
Lets hope Kubiak can lead the Texans and improve as a HC because that would mean we had success but if we dont have success, Gary has got to go.
2007 NFC South
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9-7
Carolina Panthers 7-9
New Orleans Saints 7-9
Atlanta Falcons 4-12
They played the NFC North, the worst teams from the NFC West(St Louis) and the worst team from the NFC East (Philadelphia), and the AFC West( Oakland, San Diego, Kansas City, Denver) Not to mention their own sorry division.
IMHO, their record, their record outside their division, and their record outside their conference... is a bit skewed.
At least he didn't say swine flu...
You guys win. I can't top that. I don't want someone to breakout the "What if aliens attack Reliant Stadium?" card. I won't use Kubiak in a sentence until the season starts.
But, um...nevermind.
Imagine you're a Cleveland Brown fan..... that dang Belichick wasn't getting it done, so you fire him, and you bring in Romeo Crennel. You watch your team take baby steps, but nothing's getting done, so you fire him, and you bring in Mangini.
All the while, Belichick is enjoying success in New England, developing players, resurrecting careers, winning Super Bowls.
Bob McNair's mind, should be focused on building a successful franchise, not winning a few games. As long as we're doing the right things, the success will follow. Don't focus on the results, focus on the goal.
Now, I'll agree that if it doesn't look like Kubiak is learning from his bone headed mistakes..... his play calling, his game management, his stubborness..... then McNair needs to have a serious talk'n to him. But the man is doing so many things right, why not give him a chance to get this right. He's definitely learning how to be a head coach. I believe one day he will be. I'd hate for him to be that great head coach, for the Titans, the Jaguars, the Colts, the Cowboys, San Diego, or any other team.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Are you saying that if Kubiak weighs as much as a duck, then he is a Belichick?
So two teams got significantly better, one a game better, and one stayed the same. Why is it again that as Texans fans we would spin it that the team that maintained the same mediocre record did the best? Is it because Tampa is "doing things right"?
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Why is it if you think Kubiak is doing a good job and is not on the Hot Seat we are in a sunshine club and like sprinkles and rainbows?
I know there were several who wanted Kubiak gone after last season, regardless of improvements the team has made, hell there is even one who wanted him fired 5 games into his second season.
Reminds of being called a homer because I disagreed with certain folks.
Are some so used to losing that they can not see for the life of them bright spots and all they see is the negative and so they project that into how they think Kubiak will do this year, so automatically they have this black and white image and it is set in stone if the record is this no matter what fire him, if the record is this no matter what keep him. How about actually looking if we improved in areas that we need to improve on (Most noticeably the Defense) and judge then.
I get the feeling (I could be wrong) that some use the term sunshine club because idiots the singular version is not allowed.
I know there were several who wanted Kubiak gone after last season, regardless of improvements the team has made, hell there is even one who wanted him fired 5 games into his second season.
Reminds of being called a homer because I disagreed with certain folks.
Are some so used to losing that they can not see for the life of them bright spots and all they see is the negative and so they project that into how they think Kubiak will do this year, so automatically they have this black and white image and it is set in stone if the record is this no matter what fire him, if the record is this no matter what keep him. How about actually looking if we improved in areas that we need to improve on (Most noticeably the Defense) and judge then.
I get the feeling (I could be wrong) that some use the term sunshine club because idiots the singular version is not allowed.
GP
Go Texans!
That's a big part of it. Look at all the little "poor pitiful us" threads we see every off-season where posters are griping about how somebody's power rankings has us listed at 17 instead of 15, or some analyst on TV dares to say we will not be a good team this year, etc. etc. There's been a chilling effect on Texans fans, which I think has led us to this idea that Gary Kubiak has to do x, or y, or z in order to not be on the hot seat.
There's an attitude of ultimatums and zero-tolerance about what the Texans are to accomplish. Ole Miss did a good job of making a post where he asked a bunch of questions, and it was glossed over by the rain cloud club.
You're right: Anybody who wants to be positive and talk about the good things that has happened since 2-14, as well as talk about how much BETTER things are probably going to get, is a dolt and someone who embraces mediocrity.
Let's fire Gary Kubiak and play Head Coach Lotto. You only have to go through 4 or 5 head coaches before you stumble upon a good one, so it's only about a decade or so until we find Mr. Right. We'll switch between the 3-4 and the 4-3 several times, screwing up several years' worth of drafts and free agent acquisitions, and then there's the constant tinkering with the offense because the WCO isn't the new HC's cup of tea.
I think Denver is trying that philosophy out. Kyle Orton and the Spread Offense should be the answer Pat Bowlen was looking for.
Spec, I normally don't jive with your lines of reasoning...but I am with you on this one.
GP
Go Texans!
I wonder how well Belichick's Patriots team would have done if Drew Bledsoe hadn't been injured, and he went on to play the remainder of that season and playoffs, as well as maybe one more year? They wouldn't have won.
Sometimes goofy things happen, on the field, that impact the team. The Pats were definitely a good team on defense, but with a shaky QB at the controls...they wouldn't have won so quickly.
If the position of QB is just as essential as the head coach (as someone has said), then Matt Schaub should be on a hot seat moreso than the guy who took over 2-14 and quietly built up a 3rd ranked offense. But that's just me.
A head coach gives his coordinators and assistants time to prove whether they can get it done or not, and Kubiak did that with Sherman (gone) and Richard Smith (gone). He does the same with players, such as Carr (gone) and Weaver (gone). A good head coach evaluates staff and players over time, and then tries to replace the parts that he thinks needs replacing. Kubiak has shown the same sort of patience that Bob McNair has shown, and I think there's a synergy there between owner and HC...so much so that I bet Kubiak's not on the same hot seat (nor will he be) that some fans are projecting him to be on.
IMO, Gary has gotten it right a lot more times than he has gotten it wrong.
Sometimes goofy things happen, on the field, that impact the team. The Pats were definitely a good team on defense, but with a shaky QB at the controls...they wouldn't have won so quickly.
If the position of QB is just as essential as the head coach (as someone has said), then Matt Schaub should be on a hot seat moreso than the guy who took over 2-14 and quietly built up a 3rd ranked offense. But that's just me.
A head coach gives his coordinators and assistants time to prove whether they can get it done or not, and Kubiak did that with Sherman (gone) and Richard Smith (gone). He does the same with players, such as Carr (gone) and Weaver (gone). A good head coach evaluates staff and players over time, and then tries to replace the parts that he thinks needs replacing. Kubiak has shown the same sort of patience that Bob McNair has shown, and I think there's a synergy there between owner and HC...so much so that I bet Kubiak's not on the same hot seat (nor will he be) that some fans are projecting him to be on.
IMO, Gary has gotten it right a lot more times than he has gotten it wrong.
P
Polo
Guest
Kubes isn't on the hot seat until I say he is
P
Polo
Guest
Seriously though...
If I'm McNair I'll give Kubiak a lot of chain to work with...two non losing seasons back to back is a step in the right direction...If he goes 8-8 this year then some things would have had to gone really wrong..
If you look at last year we were a Sage Rosenfels meltdown and a huge defensive/team letdown against Oakland away from being 10-6. Honestly I really think all of this is moot because I don't see us winning anything less than 9 games this year...
You can compare us to Atlanta, Saints, Panthers...whoever....
Doesn't matter....Kubiak isn't working with a core group of guys that have experienced tons of success in the NFL...For the most part he's working with a bunch of young guys who have never experienced a winning season....The other teams you guys name had key vets that had experienced winning on big stages...
I think the difference between the opposing sides of this argument is the outlook...Some see Kubes past failures and allude to him potentially failing in the future because he hasn't quite stacked up to what some of his peers have done W/L wise....
Then you have others that choose to view the situation positively. I'm not sure why we have to get classified as the sunshine and lolipop crowd just because we see a team that has consistently gotten stronger despite the one year where we repeated our 8-8 record from the year previous.
None of this is set in stone, and time will tell who was imagining lolipops and sunshine and who was briniging doom and gloom..
If I'm McNair I'll give Kubiak a lot of chain to work with...two non losing seasons back to back is a step in the right direction...If he goes 8-8 this year then some things would have had to gone really wrong..
If you look at last year we were a Sage Rosenfels meltdown and a huge defensive/team letdown against Oakland away from being 10-6. Honestly I really think all of this is moot because I don't see us winning anything less than 9 games this year...
You can compare us to Atlanta, Saints, Panthers...whoever....
Doesn't matter....Kubiak isn't working with a core group of guys that have experienced tons of success in the NFL...For the most part he's working with a bunch of young guys who have never experienced a winning season....The other teams you guys name had key vets that had experienced winning on big stages...
I think the difference between the opposing sides of this argument is the outlook...Some see Kubes past failures and allude to him potentially failing in the future because he hasn't quite stacked up to what some of his peers have done W/L wise....
Then you have others that choose to view the situation positively. I'm not sure why we have to get classified as the sunshine and lolipop crowd just because we see a team that has consistently gotten stronger despite the one year where we repeated our 8-8 record from the year previous.
None of this is set in stone, and time will tell who was imagining lolipops and sunshine and who was briniging doom and gloom..
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If you really want to know why I think of a sunshine club, read on.
Personnaly I started considering some small set (not all) of the optimists to be in some sort of "sunshine club" last year in a conversation in a lenghty thread. It was shortly after the three game win streak that included wins over two very bad teams. I didn't appreciate being talked down to because I "couldn't see the rightness" of the team finishing with eleven, maybe even twelve wins. I was struck that a select group of posters seemed to believe with a religious fervor and just wanted to enlighten my poor, ignorant soul. As now, I was told I was encumbered by opinions based on past Texans performance. If I could just believe in someone else's vision I too could be right.
I was even given proof by way of a list of the remaining schedule with little Ws by most of the team names! Somehow I still doubted.
Some optimists can make persuasive, factual arguments. The sunshine club to me are those that know the Texans are on the upswing because they are the hometown team, and as such every action can, and must be, spun as being right and further proof the Texans have multiple Super Bowl wins lined up in the near future.
The sunshine club frequently use arguments that boil down to circular logic: the Texans are building the right way; it is the right way because that is how the Texans are building.
My sunshine club has just a handful of members - a lot of the people complaining about the term aren't even on my list. I don't mind seeing opinions contrary to mine - usually Sometimes they may even change my mind. Implying I'm wrong because I haven't seen the light isn't a big winner with me though.
=====
More succinctly, I consider the sunshine club those who can't distinguish between their own beliefs and knowledge, and therefore consider opposing ideas ignorance.
Personnaly I started considering some small set (not all) of the optimists to be in some sort of "sunshine club" last year in a conversation in a lenghty thread. It was shortly after the three game win streak that included wins over two very bad teams. I didn't appreciate being talked down to because I "couldn't see the rightness" of the team finishing with eleven, maybe even twelve wins. I was struck that a select group of posters seemed to believe with a religious fervor and just wanted to enlighten my poor, ignorant soul. As now, I was told I was encumbered by opinions based on past Texans performance. If I could just believe in someone else's vision I too could be right.
I was even given proof by way of a list of the remaining schedule with little Ws by most of the team names! Somehow I still doubted.
Some optimists can make persuasive, factual arguments. The sunshine club to me are those that know the Texans are on the upswing because they are the hometown team, and as such every action can, and must be, spun as being right and further proof the Texans have multiple Super Bowl wins lined up in the near future.
The sunshine club frequently use arguments that boil down to circular logic: the Texans are building the right way; it is the right way because that is how the Texans are building.
My sunshine club has just a handful of members - a lot of the people complaining about the term aren't even on my list. I don't mind seeing opinions contrary to mine - usually
Sometimes they may even change my mind. Implying I'm wrong because I haven't seen the light isn't a big winner with me though. =====
More succinctly, I consider the sunshine club those who can't distinguish between their own beliefs and knowledge, and therefore consider opposing ideas ignorance.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
If you really want to know why I think of a sunshine club, read on.
Personnaly I started considering some small set (not all) of the optimists to be in some sort of "sunshine club" last year in a conversation in a lenghty thread. It was shortly after the three game win streak that included wins over two very bad teams. I didn't appreciate being talked down to because I "couldn't see the rightness" of the team finishing with eleven, maybe even twelve wins. I was struck that a select group of posters seemed to believe with a religious fervor and just wanted to enlighten my poor, ignorant soul. As now, I was told I was encumbered by opinions based on past Texans performance. If I could just believe in someone else's vision I too could be right.
I was even given proof by way of a list of the remaining schedule with little Ws by most of the team names! Somehow I still doubted.
Some optimists can make persuasive, factual arguments. The sunshine club to me are those that know the Texans are on the upswing because they are the hometown team, and as such every action can, and must be, spun as being right and further proof the Texans have multiple Super Bowl wins lined up in the near future.
The sunshine club frequently use arguments that boil down to circular logic: the Texans are building the right way; it is the right way because that is how the Texans are building.
My sunshine club has just a handful of members - a lot of the people complaining about the term aren't even on my list. I don't mind seeing opinions contrary to mine - usually
=====
More succinctly, I consider the sunshine club those who can't distinguish between their own beliefs and knowledge, and therefore consider opposing ideas ignorance.
That is just so stupid.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
If you really want to know why I think of a sunshine club, read on.
Personnaly I started considering some small set (not all) of the optimists to be in some sort of "sunshine club" last year in a conversation in a lenghty thread. It was shortly after the three game win streak that included wins over two very bad teams. I didn't appreciate being talked down to because I "couldn't see the rightness" of the team finishing with eleven, maybe even twelve wins. I was struck that a select group of posters seemed to believe with a religious fervor and just wanted to enlighten my poor, ignorant soul. As now, I was told I was encumbered by opinions based on past Texans performance. If I could just believe in someone else's vision I too could be right.
I was even given proof by way of a list of the remaining schedule with little Ws by most of the team names! Somehow I still doubted.
Some optimists can make persuasive, factual arguments. The sunshine club to me are those that know the Texans are on the upswing because they are the hometown team, and as such every action can, and must be, spun as being right and further proof the Texans have multiple Super Bowl wins lined up in the near future.
The sunshine club frequently use arguments that boil down to circular logic: the Texans are building the right way; it is the right way because that is how the Texans are building.
My sunshine club has just a handful of members - a lot of the people complaining about the term aren't even on my list. I don't mind seeing opinions contrary to mine - usually
=====
More succinctly, I consider the sunshine club those who can't distinguish between their own beliefs and knowledge, and therefore consider opposing ideas ignorance.
I can think of two right of the bat that could be the President and Vice President of the Sunshine Club.
My point is that you can't tell if they got significantly better or worse, going by their W-L record. All you can say is that they won more/less games. But that doesn't make them a better team.
Remember all those easy schedules that Jacksonville had, and we were saying they were over rated? They kept saying they were almost as good as the Colts... But when they finally played a good team, it wasn't even a contest.
Is our passing game better or worse than it was in '07?
Is our running game better or worse than it was in '07?
Is our OLine better or worse than it was in '07?
Do we have more or less talent on the offensive side of the ball?
Do we have more or less talent on the defensive side of the ball?
Does having the same record as '07 change any of that?
This year, we have an easier schedule, than we've had in some time. If we go 14-2, but finish the year with less total yards, less sacks, less TDs, more turn-overs, then we are not a better team, regardless what our W-L record shows. If this is the case, and we are one and done in the play-offs, then Gary Kubiak should be on the hot-seat.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
That borders comic genius and sunshine. "There's such a fine line between clever and stupid."
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Some would call it a hot seat.
what he said!
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
At least he didn't say swine flu...
You guys win. I can't top that. I don't want someone to breakout the "What if aliens attack Reliant Stadium?" card. I won't use Kubiak in a sentence until the season starts.
But, um...nevermind.
good stuff lucky