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Connor Barwin is a Texan!

thunderkyss said:
But they did play well..... we had the #3 offense in total yards.

no doubt we have some areas to work.... but you've got your core, they are still improving, let them get another year under their belts, then we can start tweaking.

Besides, it looks like this years theme, is to get the QB.
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Well I'm talking about protecting the passer. Something our offensive line has always been borderline horrendous at. If you think Mike Brisiel or Chris Meyers are starting material in the NFL... well I just won't even go there.

Max Unger could play Center, or Right Guard, and also had experience in the ZBS. I just feel like he has more value to the team than a "situational/developmental" player.

I hope I'm wrong though, I really do, but right now I'm pretty bummed.
 
Goatcheese said:
Cushing is going to play the SAM LB position which doesn't play in the nickle package for 90% of 4-3 teams. Adibi and Ryans are your nickle LBs. If you kick Smith inside and bring in Barwin then Cushing is on the sideline.

I would love the Barwin pick if we hadn't taken a SAM linebacker who's 1st round value was because of his ability to play DE on 3rd down. 2 down players are not worth 1st round picks IMO.
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Yeah, that is the one thing that I don't like about the pick. He seems to have a lot of the same strengths as Cushing. We could have just gone after someone else with the first pick then if we were going to go after Barwin.
 
Goatcheese said:
Cushing is going to play the SAM LB position which doesn't play in the nickle package for 90% of 4-3 teams. Adibi and Ryans are your nickle LBs. If you kick Smith inside and bring in Barwin then Cushing is on the sideline.

I would love the Barwin pick if we hadn't taken a SAM linebacker who's 1st round value was because of his ability to play DE on 3rd down. 2 down players are not worth 1st round picks IMO.
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I dont think Cushings was ever going to be a DE in passing situations. He is a good pass rusher at OLB not DE. Barwin will be playing DE opposite from Mario Williams. Cushing will be blitzing from OLB
 
Mari-OWNED! said:
Max Unger could play Center, or Right Guard, and also had experience in the ZBS. I just feel like he has more value to the team than a "situational/developmental" player.

I hope I'm wrong though, I really do, but right now I'm pretty bummed.
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Without turning this into a Unger thread...

He's not all that...I really don't get the fascination...Don't see how he is an upgarade over anyone...He doesn't dominate D-linemen..Not very aggressive...seems to have good feet, but like I said...I don't get the unger love...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3j8YrMwl0w
 
We've got a very deep and expensive line now, time for it to produce.

Barwin seems like a good athlete with a good footballing head and a lot of potential.

I guess there thinking is that the improved DL helps the DBs and that Wilson will be better for a year, and Molden and Bennett are ready for the bigtime.
 
Goatcheese said:
Cushing is going to play the SAM LB position which doesn't play in the nickle package for 90% of 4-3 teams. Adibi and Ryans are your nickle LBs. If you kick Smith inside and bring in Barwin then Cushing is on the sideline.

I would love the Barwin pick if we hadn't taken a SAM linebacker who's 1st round value was because of his ability to play DE on 3rd down. 2 down players are not worth 1st round picks IMO.
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3rd down doesn't necessarily mean nickel package.
 
Texecutioner said:
Yeah, that is the one thing that I don't like about the pick. He seems to have a lot of the same strengths as Cushing. We could have just gone after someone else with the first pick then if we were going to go after Barwin.
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And how could we have known Barwin would be available? I truely believed he would go late in the first round & I'm not sure what to make of the fact that New England passed on him. I would've bet just about anything that they were going to take him. I believe that Barwin is going to be a steal in this draft.
 
Hottoddie said:
And how could we have known Barwin would be available? I truely believed he would go late in the first round & I'm not sure what to make of the fact that New England passed on him. I would've bet just about anything that they were going to take him. I believe that Barwin is going to be a steal in this draft.
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using the "New England knows what it is doing" logic, doesn't that red flag Barwin?
 
This is from WalterFootball.com as of this morning:

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New England Patriots: Connor Barwin, DE/OLB, Cincinnati
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Connor Barwin had an incredible performance at Cincinnati's Pro Day. He ran a 4.47 40 and notched a 41.5-inch vertical. Barwin is drawing comparisons to Mike Vrabel, so he could be a candidate to go to New England at No. 23. I can't see him falling past this selection.

That's phenomonal numbers for a guy that size. BTW, they had him going at pick 34. Sounds like a good value pick.
 
Hottoddie said:
And how could we have known Barwin would be available? I truely believed he would go late in the first round & I'm not sure what to make of the fact that New England passed on him. I would've bet just about anything that they were going to take him. I believe that Barwin is going to be a steal in this draft.
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When I saw him I initially thought NE type of pick. He is a relentless football player. We could use that.
 
Not a fan with this pick at all. This really is panning on hoping this staff can develop a player. Looks to me like a situational pass rusher as opposed to a guy that can play 1-3 downs. I'm just not sold at this moment the staff can develop the kind into what we need him to do. We have a second round kid who can play LB or DE but.....no full time spot which we could've taken with someone with this pick. I hope i am totally wrong but i see Jason Babin 2.0.

So far upset we could've made a small move to likely get Jenkins ahead of us. Ugner was there. So far I'm disapointed ,but welcome to both of these guys to prove me totally wrong.
 
Hottoddie said:
It could, but look at who they took (Chung, Brace, & Butler). Not a bad haul, if I must say so myself.
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Maybe two of the 4 picks they had in the 2nd pan out for the Pats, but you know what that's OK with them. They get to 4 guys for the price of 1 and that is what the Pats do best. I think Barwin was going to be picked by the Ravens and with him gone they went Kruger.
 
Remember one thing in 2006 when the Texans took MW no one was too overly excited about the pick because most folks wanted either Vince Young or Reggie Bush at the time. Look what kind of player MW has turned out to be one of the best DE in the league a ProBowler no less. There is a new DC at the helm out the old nonagressive RS and in with the new hopfully agressive DC Frank Bush. These two young men have talent so lets just sit back and watch them grow and progress under Frank Bush before we all protest these picks and be anti before we all see how they preform in TC. Tomorrow is another day and I am excited to see who the Texans will end up with after day two. I support my favorite NFL team and whoever their picks might be because you just never know weather or not they are going to be a boom or a bust once they get to the NFL level so we'll just have to wait and see what happens with these two picks and the picks tomorrow as well. GO TEXANS
 
Texan JBZ said:
This is from WalterFootball.com as of this morning:

patriotsb_logo.gif
New England Patriots: Connor Barwin, DE/OLB, Cincinnati
Cincinnati_logo.gif

Connor Barwin had an incredible performance at Cincinnati's Pro Day. He ran a 4.47 40 and notched a 41.5-inch vertical. Barwin is drawing comparisons to Mike Vrabel, so he could be a candidate to go to New England at No. 23. I can't see him falling past this selection.

That's phenomonal numbers for a guy that size. BTW, they had him going at pick 34. Sounds like a good value pick.
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This is especially impressive in that prior to the Combine, he ran a 4.66 and said that he wanted to bring it down to the high 4.5's.
 
i like the pick. i thought it was consensus that the Texans were going to target a pass rusher at the top of the draft so i'm not so sure what all this confusion is over. passing downs the line across goes Williams Okoye Smith Barwin. i'm not complaining.
 
I think Gary has a point about the raw athlete criticism here. Isn't that what Mario was criticised for being just a physical specimen and raw. Look how he has developed as a player.

I think Barwin is going to impress us this year.
 
Vinny said:
using the "New England knows what it is doing" logic, doesn't that red flag Barwin?
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If New England never made a mistake, I would say yes. Are you saying that NE never has made a draft day mistake?

How did Chad Jackson, their 2nd round pick in 2006, turn out for them?
 
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Given his lack of experience he is a pass rush specialist right now, but given a years experience and a pro conditioning programme, I can see starter potential for Barwin on the WDE
 
gary said:
Remember one thing in 2006 when the Texans took MW no one was too overly excited about the pick because most folks wanted either Vince Young or Reggie Bush at the time. Look what kind of player MW has turned out to be one of the best DE in the league a ProBowler no less. There is a new DC at the helm out the old nonagressive RS and in with the new hopfully agressive DC Frank Bush. These two young men have talent so lets just sit back and watch them grow and progress under Frank Bush before we all protest these picks and be anti before we all see how they preform in TC. Tomorrow is another day and I am excited to see who the Texans will end up with after day two. I support my favorite NFL team and whoever their picks might be because you just never know weather or not they are going to be a boom or a bust once they get to the NFL level so we'll just have to wait and see what happens with these two picks and the picks tomorrow as well. GO TEXANS
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Gary, I love your optimism as always.
I might be crazy, but I might like this pick more than Cushing.
A high motor pass rusher opposite Mario, with Smith moved inside on 3rd downs sounds pretty attractive to me.
 
Vinny said:
using the "New England knows what it is doing" logic, doesn't that red flag Barwin?
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despite public perception, NE arent great drafters: merriweather, wheatley, chad jackson, ben watson, marquis hill, daniel graham etc etc. theyve hit big later on (brady,samuel) but they make as many mistakes as anybody
 
michaelm said:
Gary, I love your optimism as always.
I might be crazy, but I might like this pick more than Cushing.
A high motor pass rusher opposite Mario, with Smith moved inside on 3rd downs sounds pretty attractive to me.
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Me too I mean just give this a chance. Now for another RB and DB tomorrow.
 
BattleRedToro said:
Wouldn't one of those LB's be replaced by an extra CB on passing downs?
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Depends. You don't always go to nickle or dime in passing situations.

And although a CB may come in, the "spot" is usually taken by a Safety. But if your linebackers are fast enough and good enough in coverage, then you don't have to swap them out.
 
If Barwin had gone to the Patriots, people would be impressed and say "There they go again, they just know how to get talent that nobody else sees."

We get a guy (and I don't know crap about the guy, until I look at t he vids) and yet again: People are gloom and doom on here.

Some people really shouldn't mix uppers and alcohol.

The fact that Smithiak has claimed Mario Williams, Okoye, Cushing, and Barwin in the top portion of our draft...well, that shows you how eff'd up Capers and Casserly had drafted on defense all those years.

Our defense is taking some baby steps to hopefully improve. Kubiak was able to take our 2-14 offense and get it ranked 3rd overall after 3 seasons of suckdom. Now it seems he's trying to correct the defense problems by using defense picks over the past 2 or 3 drafts.

I wouldn't blame him if we didn't take am offense player until round 6. This defense needed major help. Maybe Barwin is Babin. Maybe he's not. But we went defense in rounds 1 and 2, and I'm thinking Bush knows exactly how to utilize those guys. Would Richard Smith have been able to? I doubt it.

Honesty time: We won't know until September if these guys are good or not. I know that the media's draft gurus on TV love certain players...until the Texans draft them, and suddenly they turn into crappy players and an awful pick by the Texans. I think that's an indictment of our former d-coordinators who have had stupid philosophies and bad development & utilization of those defensive players, essentially rendering those players useless once they suit up in a Texans uniform. God help Frank Bush, and may he know what the heck he is doing...our defense HAS to produce this season.
 
Here is quote from an article about Barwin on HoustonTexans.com:

Texans pick Barwin in second round

Coach Gary Kubiak said that Barwin will play defensive end for the Texans, lining up behind right end Mario Williams. Defensive end Antonio Smith, a free agent addition from the Arizona Cardinals, could move inside to tackle on passing downs to make room for Barwin, who is a talented pass rusher.

"I think he can play both sides," Kubiak said. "Probably, if we started tomorrow, he would line up behind Mario as we get going. But he’s going to have the ability to play both sides. On third down, he can rush the passer. So he can go outside and rush the passer at either spot, and it gives us the flexibility to move Antonio Smith inside to rush the passer on third down, which is something that he does extremely well."
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The Pencil Neck said:
Depends. You don't always go to nickle or dime in passing situations.

And although a CB may come in, the "spot" is usually taken by a Safety. But if your linebackers are fast enough and good enough in coverage, then you don't have to swap them out.
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Exactly.

What if it's 3rd and 3? I'd want Barwin, Cushing, Mario, Smith, etc., on the field because I want to be able to stop the run OR be able to react to the play-action pass and snuff it out.

Peyton Manning looks great, to me, when his butt is getting slammed down to the turf on a play-action pass because the defense had the speed and athleticism to get to him.

Not all 3rd downs are going to be nickel situations. The short yardage 3rd downs are times when we need flexibility.
 
Came across this interesting and extremely detailed analysis of all you would ever want to know about Barwin...............and much more. LINK

It would not be surpising to see our coaches to be able to turn him into a multi-down DE.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Came across this interesting and extremely detailed analysis of all you would ever want to know about Barwin...............and much more. LINK

It would not be surpising to see our coaches to be able to turn him into a multi-down DE.
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So for those who were afraid that Antonio Smith might not be able to hack it as a go-getter type of player, here you have a coach, GM, and d-coordinator who seem to be willing to add some insurance.

This should provide at least some semblance of a "Plan B" in case Smith or Williams get hurt or miss time with injuries.

I haven't seen any footage of Barwin yet, but IMO the stuff I read about him seems like he's a KVB (Titans player) type of player: He just gets around guys and gets in the faces of the players who have the ball. KVB was such a damned nuisance because he was seemingly always an inch away from the QB and forced the pass a little early.

Going to be interesting to see his vids when I get a chance.
 
If we had picked Sidbury, I doubt there would have been many sniveling. However, this kid looks to be much the same, perhaps even more versatile, but just not the name that has been knocked around as much. As I look at him more, the more I think of the pick. I think we had a pretty solid day one. Perhaps not the best in NFL history, but certainly solid and that's just fine IMO.
 
I get the distinct feeling from his draft choices and from just listening to him talk that Rick Smith places a high value on size, strength, and speed relative to other talent evaluators. Last year and this year, he talks about wanting bigger players "who can run." Of course that's not uncommon for a NFL GM to say, but I feel like it's definitely been a recurrent theme in Smith's discussion of draft philosophy.

Looking at players he's selected such as Jacoby, Duane Brown, Antwaun Molden, and now Barwin it seems like he's willing to look past lack of experience and production for superior athleticism. Jacoby and Molden both lacked polish and played inferior competition in college but they both have an intriguing combo of size and speed. Duane Brown and Barwin both played the position we drafted them to play for only one season in college, but again were impressive athletes. The scary part is he's taking these guys in the first three rounds.

Jacoby busted and the jury's out on the other three, but while I admire the crazy workouts these guys turn out as much as the next guy, deep down I'd feel safer if he took the guys who have a bit more production and experience early and these "developmental players" on day 2.

Can't help but agree that this pick feels Babinesque, but here's to hoping this guy plays up to those great combine numbers,
 
I don't get the comparisons to Babin, Vrabel, KVB, and Jared Allen.

He reminds me more of Leonard Little than any of those guys.
 
GP said:
So for those who were afraid that Antonio Smith might not be able to hack it as a go-getter type of player, here you have a coach, GM, and d-coordinator who seem to be willing to add some insurance.

This should provide at least some semblance of a "Plan B" in case Smith or Williams get hurt or miss time with injuries.

I haven't seen any footage of Barwin yet, but IMO the stuff I read about him seems like he's a KVB (Titans player) type of player: He just gets around guys and gets in the faces of the players who have the ball. KVB was such a damned nuisance because he was seemingly always an inch away from the QB and forced the pass a little early.

Going to be interesting to see his vids when I get a chance.
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Some impressive highlights of him as a DE LINK

I doubt that he disappoints.
 
GP said:
So for those who were afraid that Antonio Smith might not be able to hack it as a go-getter type of player, here you have a coach, GM, and d-coordinator who seem to be willing to add some insurance.

This should provide at least some semblance of a "Plan B" in case Smith or Williams get hurt or miss time with injuries.

I haven't seen any footage of Barwin yet, but IMO the stuff I read about him seems like he's a KVB (Titans player) type of player: He just gets around guys and gets in the faces of the players who have the ball. KVB was such a damned nuisance because he was seemingly always an inch away from the QB and forced the pass a little early.

Going to be interesting to see his vids when I get a chance.
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Well if he turned into KVB, then that would be really nice. KVB is a really solid player. I like the Barwin pick a lot. I just wish we could go back and re do the Cushing pick since we got Barwin in the 2nd.
 
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