The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Been calling for Maclin all along, I think Walters is capable but is obviously a weak link in the offense.
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CBS Sportsline article on Texans Draft needs
- Thread starter jaayteetx
- Start date
bah007
Hall of Fame
Agreed. 900 yards and 8 TDs for a #2 WR. More yards per catch than Andre Johnson.
Weak link indeed...
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Numbers don't equal talent
He shares the field with AJ, Steve Slaton, and OD. All far superior players to draw the attention of the defense. He's a white Peerless Price or Steve Breaston.
As far as comparring him to Welker, the only thing they share is skin color. Welker is in a whole 'nother leauge of player
bah007
Hall of Fame
Well who could argue with that?
I guess that's why the worst players in the league consistently put up the best numbers...
Prove to me that OD and Slaton are far superior to Walter. How do you measure that?
Good players get results. Walter gets them.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Anyone mention Walter as a blocker ? I''ve seen him peel back and take on a DE . There's only a handfull of guys who play that position who would do that .
It's inside this thread. Your post is below.
Like in basketball, there's only one ball in football. It's difficult to give Walter (or any other #2 WR) more opportunities when he's on the same team as AJ, Slaton, and Daniels. I can't see how this Texans team would get the full benefit from a 1st round pick at WR. Especially with Walter playing as well as he has the past 2 seasons.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Whoever compared him to Hines Ward earlier wasn't far off, IMO.
He's not as talented as Ward, but he brings the same skills to the table.
bah007
Hall of Fame
And on top of that, it is very unlikely that whoever we brought in to replace Walter would have the same effect on the running game. He is one of the better blocking WRs in the league.
C
Ckw
Guest
Thanks Lucky. I appreciate man.
Totally agree. Also, as I said above, I strongly believe Walter is one of the better #2 WRs in football. He just doesn't look like what most people believe a #2 WR should look like. Regardless, the WR position is not a position that needs help currently.
Excellent point man. Most people fail to recognize the impact a WR that can block can have. Both he and AJ are very capable run blockers.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Plenty of players also put up consistent numbers because the greater talent around them draws more attention, allowing them to get more yards then maybe they should.
An average WR can put up good numbers because he can draw the poorest DB on the field while the No. 1 is double teamed all game
Medicore MLBs can lead the NFL in tackles because they have great D-Linemen in front of them
Crappy CBs can have monsterous int stats because teams refuse to throw at the shutdown corner on the other side
An Anquan Boldin to our Larry Fitz (AJ) would do plenty to open up the offense and turn the Texans from a top offense on paper to a true elite offense
C
Ckw
Guest
We were already an elite offense last year when Schaub was playing.
WRONG!!!!!!!! If we had a n elite O we wouldnt have finished ranked 17th.
I like the direction our Offense is ging but we are not anywhere near elite status yet.
C
Ckw
Guest
WRONG!!!!!!!! 3rd in yards per game is pretty elite. And notice I said when Schaub was playing. I can guarantee you if you took only the games that Schaub played we would be a top ten offense.
Our biggest problem last year offensively: running the ball in the red zone. We missed out on a lot of TD opportunities because we couldn't punch the ball in from a few yards out.
YPG dont meen sht! Its all about scoring. You get nothing for moving the ball, nothing! And top ten does not = elite.
Yet you say we are an elite offense? You and I definatly have a different opinion on the definition of elite.
C
Ckw
Guest
Once again, I said we were an elite offense when Schaub was the QB.
YPG mean a bit more than ****. Before the team can even begin to be put into position to score, you have to be able to get the ball down the field. My response about our offense being elite last season was intended to discount the notion that another WR is even a remote necessity. Our problem last year with scoring was not due to our WRs. We just couldn't seem to run the ball in the red zone.
I would at least say "knocking at the doorstep" of elite status.
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Yeah, when you put it that way, lets trade up. Maybe move into the back end of the 1st to get Nix too.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I just want to clarify since this got a little off track. I think it would be assinine to take WR with the 1st pick but the scenario of Crabtree being there was broached and I answered. With that said............I think we move back if there is a taker. The problem with this is it is a very weak draft and teams may not care to spend any extra money in slots and picks to move up for a guy who may be dropping anyways. I can only see this if one fo the top teams really wants a guy for their scheme or graded out the last remaining guy of a position high.
Those guys don't fight the best WR in football for touches. The best who had a dominant year no less. With weapons galore and AJ, 900yds with 8 td's is productivity.
The odds are better that he is a bust than are the odds that he is the 2nd coming.
TexanAddict
Texan 'til I Die
The problem with your logic is this: Let's say the Texans draft a WR and he is able to make a significant contribution immediately. Let's also say that he is an improvement over Walter to the tune of 1000 yds and 10 TDs (which would be in the running for greatest rookie season of any WR in the last 10 yrs). This also does not factor in Walter's contribution to the run game. Would that extra 200 yds and two TDs make more of an impact on the entire seasons wins and losses than shoring up our porous and far too generous defense? The answer is "No." The difference between adding playmakers that can create turnovers and stop opponents from scoring will lead to more victories than adding an upgrade at WR can, and that is the crux of the situation. Can Walter's #2 WR spot be upgraded? Probably. Will it result in more victories? I believe not as many as if the defense was given a significant upgrade.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
I was wondering the other night....if the giants came calling on draft day and offered their first.....if they'd trade Walter ? I say no....but if the kid from Retguers, Kenny Britt is off the board by then they'd be in a pickle. Just judging by their reaction last year with Minnesoda....With Rosenfelds...they'd error on the side of caution I believe.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I don't necessarily disagree with this but let's take it one step further. If the rookie is the #2 the next season than that means Walter becomes the #3. Not only would we be (hypothetically) upgrading the #2 position but we've be vastly improving the 3rd WR position. I think we'd see a lot of 3 WR sets.
A #1 would be hard to pass up, considering Walter is in the last year of his contract, I believe. It would be more likley the Giants would trade 15 though.
TexanAddict
Texan 'til I Die
But would you spend #15 on a slight upgrade at #2 WR and an upgrade #3? Again, there are only so many balls to go around and Kubiak has made it clear he wants to be a run-first offense, so you won't be seeing them running the spread. I still believe the impact on the offense would be small. However, on defense there are many more positions that can stand an upgrade or at least stiff competition, where a rookie could make a significantly larger impact on that side of the ball. Barber, Diles, Adibi, T. Johnson, even Wilson, these guys might have potential or be adequate, but should any of them be unquestioned starters if a better option is possible? If the Texans add some hitters with skill to our team, I will be happy.
If it takes the offense from above average to a dynamic one which wins games despite the defense it should be a consideration. Not convinced anyone available at 15 would qualify as an automatic upgrade of that type, but the curent Texans offense is not so good that the organization should just add a 4th round RB and think we don't need to do anything else.
P
Polo
Guest
There is no way I'm going to take any rookie WR and start him over Walter unless he is a Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson type of reciever...And even then I'd have a hard time replacing a guy that I know will be highly productive, blocks and knows the offense with an unkown commodity/potential.
I'd gladly take Crabtree and start him off as a 3 and see if he can make that push for the 2, but there is not really any rookie WR I'd bring in and just hand them the job over Walter. That's crazy IMHO.
I'd gladly take Crabtree and start him off as a 3 and see if he can make that push for the 2, but there is not really any rookie WR I'd bring in and just hand them the job over Walter. That's crazy IMHO.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Beyond the stats, if he can occupy enough defenders to get AJ into single coverage or open up the middle of the field for OD, Slaton, and even Kevin Walter, then yes it could be a big deal.
With mediocre CBs and terrible safties in the draft, a WR like Maclin could be far superior to any defensive player on the board. Taking a lesser talent because of need never works (see Okoye instead of Willis)
TexanAddict
Texan 'til I Die
Sorry, the impact felt by a rookie WR will not be as great as improvements made to the defense. How big a difference are you suggesting it make? Are we suddenly going to have 6000 passing yds on offense? Will it be like Madden, where every time Schuab drops back he hits one of our guys for a bomb TD? Just curious since AJ was open enough last season to catch over 100 balls and go for over 1500 yds. How is a speedy WR going to help an offense that is already good at moving the ball between the 20s, but bogs down in the redzone? The point is AJ is already getting open and we already have one of the better passing offenses with Walter on the other side. It is NOT our most pressing need. A RB that could help us in the redzone would be a better investment than any WR, but I believe defensive improvements would lead to more wins.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Sorry, the impact felt by a rookie WR will not be as great as improvements made to the defense. How big a difference are you suggesting it make? Are we suddenly going to have 6000 passing yds on offense? Will it be like Madden, where every time Schuab drops back he hits one of our guys for a bomb TD? Just curious since AJ was open enough last season to catch over 100 balls and go for over 1500 yds. How is a speedy WR going to help an offense that is already good at moving the ball between the 20s, but bogs down in the redzone? The point is AJ is already getting open and we already have one of the better passing offenses with Walter on the other side. It is NOT our most pressing need. A RB that could help us in the redzone would be a better investment than any WR, but I believe defensive improvements would lead to more wins.
Why take a defensive player at 15 if they aren't worthy of it? I'm a USC fan but none of the Trojans LBs are worth the 15th pick. No CBs and certainly no safties are either.
Not sold on Wells but Maclin or Crabtree would be a can't miss shot, especially against inferior talent like Cushing.
I would take Jerry at DT but we already have a bust and a flop about the same size, so taking another one makes no sense
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
So if you view Okoye as a bust and a flop, why wouldn't you take Jerry if he's there?
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
TJ is the bust
Okoye is a flop (one year from being a bust)
Jerry is the same mold as the other two. Weak against the run and easily pushed off the ball. We don't need another 3-tech, we need a fatass to soak up blockers
Texan4Ever
All Pro
Maybe because Okoye is still young. I still think that for our d-line to be successful we need to grab a road grader or a massive body like Okam and put him next to Okoye. At 300-lbs, I doubt Okoye can break through a double team and get to the QB.
The ability to break through a double team has more to do with strength, power and explosiveness then body weight. THere are plenty of fat loafs of crap that can't split a double team effectively. I think Okoye has Warren Sapp potential, people may not like hearing this but he is young and is still developing. He will get better. He played well in year one and had tough year last year. A high ankle sprain is no joke, hard to be explosive and drive another 300 pounder off the ball when you have a bum wheel. Injuries will always effect a smaller more explosive tackle than they will a big wide body. Injuries hamper explosiveness, whereas if you are big and fat, you are still big a fat when hurt.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Tommie Harris weighs 295 and has no problem breaking double teams.
Too much emphasis is placed on weight for DTs. You don't have to be fat to break through a block.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
"The Fridge" was a DT...........I wouldn't mind having him today.............even though he played at 300 pounds, when 300 pounds was today's 400 pounds..........he had the moves..........he could deflect the pile.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Up to you...but every time McClain talks on the subject he says the same thing over and over again...Travis Johnson is doing what the coaches want him to do. Now the first two years I was pretty steamed too. But it wasn't his fault were he was drafted. Wasn't his fault he was in a weak class. We've already eaten the bad money with him. If he gets beat out this summer fine. What I'm seeing...outside of Raji...we're fixing to watch quite a few teams make the same type of error. Travis Johnson is what he is....a top fifty to eighty DT. Just got picked by a GM who got caught with his pants down on a trade back. A failing common with Charlie Casselry in terms of tallent evaluation and luck.