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Antonio Smith a Texan!

dalemurphy said:
Kaiser, I've not said anything about the player. I know he's got some explosiveness and I've been reading about him, and I've seen him when I've watched the Cards play. I'm not ogling over anything. You're cticising the signing based and comparing it to a Casserly style signing. Also, you called him an underachiever and haven't explained why/where you get that information from.

My point is that this is a player that the organization really wanted and, according to the current FA market and any reputable source I can find, they did not overpay for him. Also, I think it's very pessimistic to attack a signing before you really know much about the player.

I just watched the first half of the Atlanta game. Here are some observations:

1. He shuffled in an out quite a bit.
2. They moved him all over the line. I've already seen him lineup in all 4 DL spots
3. He's made a few plays penetrating the gaps from a DT spot.
4. I've not seen any special moves or speed rushes from the DE spot- but I've only seen him lineup there a couple times. He had a couple good bull rushes.
5. He held his ground on a number of double teams.
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I sincerely appreciate you reviewing the first half and based on your observations and from what I recall I like that he can play different positions, exhibit a bull rush and hold the middle. This is what Kollar wants, this is what most of us expect. The question is can we get that from him during a full regular season. The book is still out on that one.

In the end, we all win if he can perform his duty. However, I am not one to bite my tongue for a signing of a veteran player that has high expectations, based on the contract and you dutifully reminding us that he was on high on the FO/staff's list. :texflag:
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't really understand this analysis. Are you trying to say the Cardinals were better when he was not the starter?

I think this is a good signing and clever way to lay out the money over the contract period.
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I believe I prefaced it by stating FWIW (for what it's worth). Moreover, it was a response to a post regarding the definition of a quality starter.
 
Amobi got $12.7 mil in guaranteed money when he was signed. He was drafted at #10. So factoring in inflation (to drive the cost up) and our #15 slot (which drives the price down) I'm thinking we paid Smith about the same money we paid Okoye. And Frank Bush knows what Smith can do. which brings me to the bottom line - someone mentioned this earlier: If this pickup was done with Frank Bush's blessings, I'm good with it.
 
I think something that is getting overlooked is that Smith is argueable the dest DE in free agency (depending on who you read).
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I am not excited about this signing, but willing to take a wait and see attitude. Regardless, Brian Gardner now has my attention.
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For those who, like myself, had no idea who Brian Gardner was. He now has my attention.

I think Antonio Smith is a legit LDE and an upgrade from Anthony Weaver. I think Smith could provide an interior push if moved inside on passing downs. But, the Texans still need an edge rusher. This signing doesn't change that. I expect the Texans to find that player in the draft. It's a pretty deep draft for these DE/OLB hybrids, so it's not imperative that an edge rusher be taken in the 1st round. Just that the Texans find one.
 
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From what I've read also most of Smith's pressures and sacks have come from shooting gaps as a DT on passing downs. Given this, I expect quite strongly that we are still looking for a DE pass rush specialist for those times when Smith slides inside.
 
ObsiWan said:
Amobi got $12.7 mil in guaranteed money when he was signed. He was drafted at #10. So factoring in inflation (to drive the cost up) and our #15 slot (which drives the price down) I'm thinking we paid Smith about the same money we paid Okoye. And Frank Bush knows what Smith can do. which brings me to the bottom line - someone mentioned this earlier: If this pickup was done with Frank Bush's blessings, I'm good with it.
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Okoye Signed a six-year, $15.4 million contract. The deal contains $12.785 million guaranteed. Another $2.3 million is available through incentives, including a fifth-year escalator of $2.2 million.

Smith signed a 5 year 35.5 million contract with 12.5 million in guaranteed money.

Some people seem to not understand the contract. The 12.5 million while payed out upfront as a signing bonus, will be spread out 2.5 million per year on the cap.

Year one would be a 3 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

Year two would be 3.9 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

Year three would be 4.6 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

etc.

It isn't front loaded.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Well, then it really depends on what your definition of a quality starter is.
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Right now my definition for a quality DE is anyone better than Anthony Weaver. From everything I have read and seen of Antonio Smith, he is a hell of a lot better player than Weaver. Looking at the big picture, this signing keeps us from being forced to draft a DE and truly go after BPA.
 
Why would anyone be upset about this!
Its soo frustrating to hear him called Weaver part2.
Is NOTHING like Weaver.
I am glad we have a solid DE, which has been a need for a while.
This is a great pickup, gives me much more hope in our team next year!
Glad the Texans are being aggresive in the FA market.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Have you seen him and based on your evaluations should he be one of the top 3 highest paid defensive players on the Texans? Talk about stirring the hornet's nest with Robinson and Ryans.

This signing does not help that locker room, future contractual negotiations with our currently signed players, let alone the field.

The only winner right now is Antonio Smith.
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D-Rob's case is isolated and (IMHO) a case of 'unreality' on his part. He's getting paid MORE this year than he should be due to the uncertainty of his play (and recovery from serious injury). I was happy as a clam that he returned last year, but was FAR from being "blown away" by his play.

Ryans deserves to be paid handsomely and will get his paycheck, but the Texans were/are still trying to get through FA and see what they needed to spend. His whining via the press was the first unprofessional thing I've seen him do.

While the Smith signing most definitely comes with some ??? attached, it wasn't a ridiculously "out of whack" contract. I don't see this as creating the sort of locker room dynamite you're projecting either.
 
disaacks3 said:
D-Rob's case is isolated and (IMHO) a case of 'unreality' on his part. He's getting paid MORE this year than he should be due to the uncertainty of his play (and recovery from serious injury). I was happy as a clam that he returned last year, but was FAR from being "blown away" by his play.

Ryans deserves to be paid handsomely and will get his paycheck, but the Texans were/are still trying to get through FA and see what they needed to spend. His whining via the press was the first unprofessional thing I've seen him do.

While the Smith signing most definitely comes with some ??? attached, it wasn't a ridiculously "out of whack" contract. I don't see this as creating the sort of locker room dynamite you're projecting either.
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Of course it is isolated, but the dollars being thrown around still matter in the court of public ego, ie the locker room.

FWIW, this is our fourth Rosenhaus client on the team if memory serves me well - Smith, Winston, Myers and Barber - and I am not a big fan of playing with the devil especially when his clients are hot, as in a nice playoff run.
 
He's now a TEXAN, and that's the bottom line. I'll support him loyally as long as he wears the Texan logo.

Welcome to Houston Antonio!!!!
 
I'll leave the dollars and $ense up to you guys, I know 100 million is overpaying even for the best. It's all about the structure of your club's money. To me, when a deal is done you have to look at the bigger picture. What does this signing likely do the Texans 3 yeras from now? Where will we be?

I maintain that the biggest obstacle is going to be keeping quality players at good VALUE. So that, to me, means drafting guys that you don't have to pay big money to that can play in your system 4, 5, 6+ years and not cripple the financial infrastructure of the team.

If Smith's signing allows us to draft more confidently, or with more assurance that the players we are drafting will be worth their paycheck, then it's a good deal. If the Texans FO has questions about the "top tier" DE's in the draft then this signing is more about being able to draft guys later for less money. Maybe you have a relative "sure thing" in the first rounds at another position and this signing allows you to draft with confidence at those positions as well as drafting a more situational player at DE for a more reasonable amount.

I think so much more goes into this than just "is this guy worth x dollars?". Does this pickup give the Texans a better opportunity to increase depth and talent without creating a financial stress on future decisions?

I think, more than likely it does. We'll have to wait and see.

Go Texans.
 
Goatcheese said:
Okoye Signed a six-year, $15.4 million contract. The deal contains $12.785 million guaranteed. Another $2.3 million is available through incentives, including a fifth-year escalator of $2.2 million.

Smith signed a 5 year 35.5 million contract with 12.5 million in guaranteed money.

Some people seem to not understand the contract. The 12.5 million while payed out upfront as a signing bonus, will be spread out 2.5 million per year on the cap.

Year one would be a 3 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

Year two would be 3.9 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

Year three would be 4.6 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

etc.

It isn't front loaded.
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I confess to being one of those in your "some people" dig.

Salary cap math makes my head hurt
:D
 
ESPN reports that Smith will get $15.5 million in year one. I certainly hope that 80% of it is via incentive because at that price it could keep us from siging Dunta or Demeco.

Of course when it comes to the national on press they though Rick Smith was Rosencopters agent, so I don't really trust the figure.
 
Goatcheese said:
Okoye Signed a six-year, $15.4 million contract. The deal contains $12.785 million guaranteed. Another $2.3 million is available through incentives, including a fifth-year escalator of $2.2 million.

Smith signed a 5 year 35.5 million contract with 12.5 million in guaranteed money.

Some people seem to not understand the contract. The 12.5 million while payed out upfront as a signing bonus, will be spread out 2.5 million per year on the cap.

Year one would be a 3 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

Year two would be 3.9 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

Year three would be 4.6 million salary with 2.5 million pro rated signing bonus cap hit.

etc.

It isn't front loaded.
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It needs to be front loaded in order for us to have room for our signings in 2011-2012 (assuing that the CBA will be extended/amended) - Mario, Schaub, Okoye, Slaton, D. Brown, Adibi, etc.

Moreover, he will have at least ~7m next year go against the cap, which will make him the second highest cap hit on the defensive side of the ball.
 
Big Lou said:
ESPN reports that Smith will get $15.5 million in year one. I certainly hope that 80% of it is via incentive because at that price it could keep us from siging Dunta or Demeco.

Of course when it comes to the national on press they though Rick Smith was Rosencopters agent, so I don't really trust the figure.
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If the contract is front-loaded as the reports indicate, that only helps with the Dunta/Demeco extensions. Dunta is already couning $10 million against this year's cap. If he's signed to a big deal, his cap hit this season would actually be reduced. We have the room this year so it makes a ton of sense to frontload A. Smith's deal.
 
I'll leave the dollars and $ense up to you guys, I know 100 million is overpaying even for the best. It's all about the structure of your club's money. To me, when a deal is done you have to look at the bigger picture. What does this signing likely do the Texans 3 yeras from now? Where will we be?

I maintain that the biggest obstacle is going to be keeping quality players at good VALUE. So that, to me, means drafting guys that you don't have to pay big money to that can play in your system 4, 5, 6+ years and not cripple the financial infrastructure of the team.

If Smith's signing allows us to draft more confidently, or with more assurance that the players we are drafting will be worth their paycheck, then it's a good deal. If the Texans FO has questions about the "top tier" DE's in the draft then this signing is more about being able to draft guys later for less money. Maybe you have a relative "sure thing" in the first rounds at another position and this signing allows you to draft with confidence at those positions as well as drafting a more situational player at DE for a more reasonable amount.

I think so much more goes into this than just "is this guy worth x dollars?". Does this pickup give the Texans a better opportunity to increase depth and talent without creating a financial stress on future decisions?

I think, more than likely it does. We'll have to wait and see.

Go Texans.
 
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This a very good pick guys let's not be negative this guy is coming from a 4-3 defense versus Weaver playing a 3-4 defense before he came to houston. Two different players.
 
PHAROAH said:
This a very good pick guys let's not be negative this guy is coming from a 4-3 defense versus Weaver playing a 3-4 defense before he came to houston.
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Actually, the Cards give a lot of different looks, including the 3-4. I do agree that Smith and Weaver are different. Smith has enough strength to get off blocks and push the pocket. Weaver has a better backpedal, though.
 
Lucky said:
Weaver has a better backpedal, though.
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moonwalk.gif
 
We could have signed a ham sandwich and done better than Weaver. AS should be a significant upgrade at the position. Maybe even better than the aforementioned sandwich.
 
Lucky said:
I think Antonio Smith is a legit LDE and an upgrade from Anthony Weaver. I think Smith could provide an interior push if moved inside on passing downs. But, the Texans still need an edge rusher.
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Sums up my take. I like the signing, getting one of the more highly coveted defensive players this early in FA without handing out a crazy contract is a job well done, IMO. However I still feel like we need that edge rusher with an explosive first step.
 
dalemurphy said:
If the contract is front-loaded as the reports indicate, that only helps with the Dunta/Demeco extensions. Dunta is already couning $10 million against this year's cap. If he's signed to a big deal, his cap hit this season would actually be reduced. We have the room this year so it makes a ton of sense to frontload A. Smith's deal.
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Good point.

I keep forgeting that Dunta was frachised and thus there is already a big number going against the cap. I guess because we've never franchised before.
 
Fox said:
Sums up my take. I like the signing, getting one of the more highly coveted defensive players this early in FA without handing out a crazy contract is a job well done, IMO. However I still feel like we need that edge rusher with an explosive first step.
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I would like to see a pass rush specialist DE drafting in the 4th.

Anway heres to Manning, Garrard , and Collins counting roof tiles!!!!!!
 
PapaL said:
Can't judge the guy until he plays in our system.

We know what Weaver did for us and at what price tag.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water on this one.
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I completely agree with this. I

TexanSam said:
Damn...that's a lot of money those first two years
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bckey said:
I'm good with the signing. I think he will be even better with us than he was with the Cards because he has Mario on the other side.

If we get a stud outside lb in the first round, then maybe cb in the 2nd, dt 3rd, rb and safety with our 4ths, ol 5th, qb 6th, and wr 7th look out. Of course it all depends on what we do in the remainder of free agency. Can't wait until April.
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Why would you list a position and a draft pick together like that? Too many "what if's" involved with what palyers are left on the board. One of the reasons I like this signing is that it gives us flexibilty on draft day to go BPA at several postions. Sory, but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

GP said:
Mario, Smith, TJ, Okam, Bulman, Robinson, Cochran. That's 7 guys on a 4-man line. I suspect we'll grab a DL somewhere in the draft...but it'd have to be "THE GUY" who is available, the guy whom Smithiakush deem to be worth it in rounds 1-3. And those probabilities are like overpaying for suited connectors when the flop comes K-K-A.

You might need to go ahead and research how much tar, firewood, and cauldrons are selling for these days. You're probably not going to be happy.
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Very good analogy!! Why do we HAVE to take a DL in rnds1-3 to make someone happy? NFL history is LOADED with more draft day busts than gems.See also Reggie Bush, for starters. Smithiak has earned my trust on draft day.

ObsiWan said:
how does this money compare to the money some unproven rookie would get should we pick a DE at #15??
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THAT is a good question. I think it's favored on AS's side(gonna be some fun with THAT contraction over the years) because if Bush's in-depth knowledge of AS.
dalemurphy said:
How often did you watch him? This signing needs to be seen mutually exclusively from the Weaver signing or any of those Casserly decisions. Your emotions have nothing to do with it. I'm going to go watch some Arizona games on NFL.com/replay and watch him closely. You have to pay a premium price to play in FA. I think this team has been and is being very measured in FA under Rick Smith.

Antonio Smith is rated closely with Chris Canty and has out-produced him the past 3 seasons. Watch how much more money Canty gets guaranteed. This is the market!

Also, it obvious the organization was very excited about this particular player- based on what Kubes and Smith had to say at the combine and the fact that A. Smith was the first defensive FA they brought in for an interview. So, I think it's very inaccurate to characterise this signing as a "need to do something" .
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I know next to nothing about AS, but I trust the FO to do what's best for the team. I don't think Smith would've signed him or Bush push for it if AS didn't possess another level of play that can be coached up and schemed for.
 
Here's a neat story from a Cardinal fan at the Cards' board:


I hope the best for Antonio. But I'm going to miss him so much. I sat right behind him in section 106, and everytime I had something to tell him, he would answer back. I remember on MNF when Allen Rossum returned the openening kickoff, I put my head down and shook my head. Then I heard Antonio say, "Hey! Hey! " and I then looked in his direction and he then said, "We aint done, we just started!". He never quit! The interaction he had with us (the fans) is what I'm going to miss the most! Antonio, you will be a Cardinal forever in my heart! Good luck in Houston.
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http://forums.azcardinals.com/showthread.php?t=40807&page=4
 
Joe Texan said:
Mario is inches from the quarterback every play. if Smith can push just inches Mario's way the we got a quarterback eating D
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I like this signing exactly because of what Joe stated. Firstly, Antonio wasn't playing across from Mario at Arizona, secondly, I look forward to seeing how this translates with a more aggressive scheme for BOTH players. I would imagine that Antonio's stats are gonna go up a bit playing here.
 
After watching the press conference Smith gave, I don't think we'll have to worry about this guy showing up fat, sloppy, or out of shape come OTA's. I think he has respect for Bush as a Coach which might put some extra motivation in for him.
 
Well, it's done. I just hope he pans out. There is no doubt in my mind this is an upgrade over Weaver, how much remains to be seen.
 
this was really a no brainer signing. the Texans had to address their DL & actually got one of the bigger free agents available who fit the direction they wanted to head. this explains alot as to why other contracts may have stalled because they needed the cap room to negoiate his contract.

you know I never thought too much about Arizona defense just figured they tried to outscore opponets with that high powered offense, but once they made it into the playoffs the defense actually played some............defense. Dockett of couse was a beast but no more so than Mario. Karlos Dansby is the real deal but is he any better than DeMeco? the funny thing was their percieved lack of pass rush was a legitimate RDE, yet they still wrecked havoc in the backfield all the way into the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl.

I expect nothing less from the Texans now that Antonio Smith is added to the DL & the Texans still have the 15th pick or rest of the draft to address that all important RDE.
 
Is this pretty much it for the Texans big Free agent signings? By rough estimation, after tagging D-Rob, tendering our RFA, resigning Wilson for 3 years 11 mil, and picking up Smith for 5 years 35 mil, the Texans have somewhere around 17-18 million left in cap space. They will need ~5 mil for their draft picks, 3-5 mil in reserve/emergency cap space, and 1.5 mil for whichever QB they sign. That only leaves about 5.5-7.5 mil, and they will need most of that to sign players for depth.

I was expecing a bigger offseason to be honest. We pretty much stood pat, and picked up an overpaid guy who wasn't even a full time starter for his old team. The Texans are on the cusp of the playoffs, and most people seemed to think they would make some big moves to become competitors. That really hasn't happened.
 
Goatcheese said:
The Texans are on the cusp of the playoffs, and most people seemed to think they would make some big moves to become competitors. That really hasn't happened.
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We just improved our pass rush, that's a start. I'm sure there is more to come. I don't think A Smith is a godsend or anything, but he is better than what we had, and that's always a good thing.
 
Thorn said:
We just improved our pass rush, that's a start. I'm sure there is more to come. I don't think A Smith is a godsend or anything, but he is better than what we had, and that's always a good thing.
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Is 3.5 sacks/season really going to have a big impact on the defense? :thinking:
 
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