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Antonio Smith a Texan!

Jackie Chiles said:
Before you scroll up to check throw out a guess so you can be angry or happy.:specnatz:
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12.5 M, eh ? Thanks for the heads-up ?
In the new era of post-Haynesworth 40 Million + money, honestly I wouldn't have been that surprised if it was in the mid-teens. But for a guy who's resume says part-time starter, I just dunno ?
 
GP said:
But isn't it an "OK" deal in terms of being heavily front-loaded this year, with less downside in years 2 and 3? I mean, Antonio is 28 and this puts him as a Texans player until he's 31. This would have been a bad deal if we had structured it as a 4,5, or 6-year deal right?

And we didn't lose a draft pick, specifically 2 first rounders.

And we don't have to reach on a rookie DE via the draft.

Yeah, in terms of how this plays out on the field...the last guy we went after for DE was a complete bust. Is it the residue off the Weaver deal that doesn't sit well with you?

I can see where some might think it's a "meh" signing. I have healthy expectations: Stay on the field, be disruptive all the time even if you're not owning a game, and never quit. And don't drift back into pass coverage, please.
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I am fine with the structure of the deal, just not sure if the talent is commensurate with the dollars being provided. This is a Rick Smith vs. Brian Gardner/Frank Bush situation. Smith did his job, the book is still open on the other two.
 
nunusguy said:
12.5 M, eh ? Thanks for the heads-up ?
In the new era of post-Haynesworth 40 Million + money, honestly I wouldn't have been that surprised if it was in the mid-teens. But for a guy who's resume says part-time starter, I just dunno ?
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Yeah I just wanted to see an opinion right before you saw the actual number. I agree, I thought it could have been more, could have been less, who knows. Hopefully he plays up to it.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I am fine with the structure of the deal, just not sure if the talent is commensurate with the dollars being provided. This is a Rick Smith vs. Brian Gardner/Frank Bush situation. Smith did his job, the book is still open on the other two.
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I see.

Would love to know how Smith feels about this. As in: Is this acquisition truly "blessed" by Smith, or is he doing it as a honeymoon gift to Frank Bush?

You'd have to think that Frank wanted this, but I wonder if this was agreed upon by all members of the brain trust or is it a gift to Frank for being the new d-coord. One of those "I'm the head guy for the defense. This guy, for what we can afford, will be better than Weaver."

Going to be very interesting how this works out on the field. Very interesting. If we stink up the joint in the first 6 weeks of the season, I and a lot of others are going to be searching for our pitchforks and torches.
 
I'm good with the signing. I think he will be even better with us than he was with the Cards because he has Mario on the other side.

If we get a stud outside lb in the first round, then maybe cb in the 2nd, dt 3rd, rb and safety with our 4ths, ol 5th, qb 6th, and wr 7th look out. Of course it all depends on what we do in the remainder of free agency. Can't wait until April.
 
GP said:
I see.

Would love to know how Smith feels about this. As in: Is this acquisition truly "blessed" by Smith, or is he doing it as a honeymoon gift to Frank Bush?

You'd have to think that Frank wanted this, but I wonder if this was agreed upon by all members of the brain trust or is it a gift to Frank for being the new d-coord. One of those "I'm the head guy for the defense. This guy, for what we can afford, will be better than Weaver."

Going to be very interesting how this works out on the field. Very interesting. If we stink up the joint in the first 6 weeks of the season, I and a lot of others are going to be searching for our pitchforks and torches.
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If we do not draft a DL player in the first three rounds, because of this signing, I will bring my cauldron of hot tar and pour it down the stairs at Reliant. We over paid, we better get 5x production out of this player than what the Cardinals received.
 
I'm good with this, I don't think he is a Weaver clone. I think this guy is a little nastier, attitude wise.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If we do not draft a DL player in the first three rounds, because of this signing, I will bring my cauldron of hot tar and pour it down the stairs at Reliant. We over paid, we better get 5x production out of this player than what the Cardinals received.
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Mario, Smith, TJ, Okam, Bulman, Robinson, Cochran. That's 7 guys on a 4-man line. I suspect we'll grab a DL somewhere in the draft...but it'd have to be "THE GUY" who is available, the guy whom Smithiakush deem to be worth it in rounds 1-3. And those probabilities are like overpaying for suited connectors when the flop comes K-K-A.

You might need to go ahead and research how much tar, firewood, and cauldrons are selling for these days. You're probably not going to be happy.
 
GP said:
Mario, Smith, TJ, Okam, Bulman, Robinson, Cochran. That's 7 guys on a 4-man line. I suspect we'll grab a DL somewhere in the draft...but it'd have to be "THE GUY" who is available, the guy whom Smithiakush deem to be worth it in rounds 1-3.

You might need to go ahead and research how much tar, firewood, and cauldrons are selling for these days. You're probably not going to be happy.
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I would have rather given Dunta more money, than make a commitment to a guy who blew up during the playoffs.

I am sorry, but this signing has more red flags than Red Square.
 
well if they were targeting a guy raw like Robert Ayers, or Micheal Johnson, wouldn't the first move in the equation be getting a veteran presence in the locker room to help show him the ropes ? Just thinking out loud. I don't think there are any cheap guys on the d line anymore.
 
threetoedpete said:
well if they were targeting a guy raw like Robert Ayers, or Micheal Johnson, wouldn't the first move in the equation be getting a veteran presence in the locker room to help show him the ropes ? Just thinking out loud. I don't think there are any cheap guys on the d line anymore.
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You mean like Mario?
 
Well we've got our Weaver replacement...I just hope he's worth the cost increase. I'm OK with this signing, he's not a top-tier player, but we definitely weren't going bottom of the barrel here either.

Welcome to Houston, Mr. Smith! :d:

Lets start looking for the FS, CB & LB of our future in the draft.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I would have rather given Dunta more money, than make a commitment to a guy who blew up during the playoffs.

I am sorry, but this signing has more red flags than Red Square.
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I don't think this deal has any impact on a Dunta re-signing. We had to improve the DL and this isn't going to hamstring the salary cap.
 
Specnatz said:
You mean like Mario?
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Mario plays the other side. Someone to stand behind him in drills...sit beside him in the film room and explain to him what he's doing right and what he's doing wrong. Mario's skill set is so far off the charts, I do not see your point.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if we used our first pick on a pass rushing RDE like Brown or Orakpo and use Smith as the guy on running downs as the rookie learns to play against the run.
 
how does this money compare to the money some unproven rookie would get should we pick a DE at #15??
 
dalemurphy said:
I don't think this deal has any impact on a Dunta re-signing. We had to improve the DL and this isn't going to hamstring the salary cap.
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Improving the DL and overpaying for Smith can and should have been exclusive. Feeling the need "to do something" is so Casserly.

The more I think about this deal, the more I hear barely a whimper out of the Cards fans, the more I hear the talkng heads laud this pick and nod in unison, the more I dislike it.
 
For everyone that think the money is too high, just remember that these numbers are always deceptive. The contract could be heavily laced with incentives. The $12.5 mil gauranteed is the magic number, and thats not to out of line.

Also it's a five year deal and something tells me the heavy portion is in the back and not gauranteed. The guy is a high motor type so he probably has faith in his own ability. If his work ethic is as they say it is, he should at least be fun to watch on a D-Line with #90!!!!
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I would have rather given Dunta more money, than make a commitment to a guy who blew up during the playoffs.

I am sorry, but this signing has more red flags than Red Square.
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But the difference is that one guy has two healthy legs, and the other guy doesn't.

You're THAT concerned? Concerned so much that you'd rather give Dunta the money than to another Dlineman?

We couldn't afford to keep Weaver (due to his lack of production) and we can't afford to go after the top-tier DEs when we're sitting on Mario Williams. I think there will be a lot of pissed off fans when we DON'T go DL in the first few rounds. But does it instantly translate to immediate suckdom?

I'm not so sure it does.

Your posts (and your avatar) look like you might be ordering up another Mojito. LOL. Take care. I gotta' go...
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Fair question, just as "how does this money compare to other unproven veterans who made three nice plays in the playoffs" is.
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I really look at this more as Bush KNOWING this guy and going after him. Bush knew Weaver and he knew this guy from his time in Arizona and he picked this guy.

So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see a couple of games out of him.
 
I'll go on record saying that I really like this signing a lot. This really upgrades our DE position and frees up the draft a lot. I also like how his deal is structured. Looks like a lot will go towards our Cap this year allowing the future to be a bit brighter. There's no certainty in what's going to happen in the future: cap/uncapped.

Way to go Ricky, our team is getting better and better!
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Improving the DL and overpaying for Smith can and should have been exclusive. Feeling the need "to do something" is so Casserly.

The more I think about this deal, the more I hear barely a whimper out of the Cards fans, the more I hear the talkng heads laud this pick and nod in unison, the more I dislike it.
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How often did you watch him? This signing needs to be seen mutually exclusively from the Weaver signing or any of those Casserly decisions. Your emotions have nothing to do with it. I'm going to go watch some Arizona games on NFL.com/replay and watch him closely. You have to pay a premium price to play in FA. I think this team has been and is being very measured in FA under Rick Smith.

Antonio Smith is rated closely with Chris Canty and has out-produced him the past 3 seasons. Watch how much more money Canty gets guaranteed. This is the market!

Also, it obvious the organization was very excited about this particular player- based on what Kubes and Smith had to say at the combine and the fact that A. Smith was the first defensive FA they brought in for an interview. So, I think it's very inaccurate to characterise this signing as a "need to do something" .
 
TexansSeminole said:
I wouldn't be surprised if we used our first pick on a pass rushing RDE like Brown or Orakpo and use Smith as the guy on running downs as the rookie learns to play against the run.
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And I think you'd be disappointed when we go any direction other than DL.

Those guys, at least Brown and Orakpo are more like dlinemen on a 3-4 defense than on an NFL-caliber 4-3 defense.

At least that's what the draft gurus say :whip:
 
GP said:
And I think you'd be disappointed when we go any direction other than DL.

Those guys, at least Brown and Orakpo are more like dlinemen on a 3-4 defense than on an NFL-caliber 4-3 defense.

At least that's what the draft gurus say :whip:
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Actually, I think Brown and Orakpo are more OLB's in a 3-4 scheme. Although that's arguable with Orakpo. He could easily be a 4-3 DE.
 
Orakpo may be a 4-3 DE, but there is no chance he lasts till the 15th pick; which renders the discussion about him rather pointless. Brown is also likely to be off the board at 15 as well.
 
dalemurphy said:
How often did you watch him? This signing needs to be seen mutually exclusively from the Weaver signing or any of those Casserly decisions. Your emotions have nothing to do with it. I'm going to go watch some Arizona games on NFL.com/replay and watch him closely. You have to pay a premium price to play in FA. I think this team has been and is being very measured in FA under Rick Smith.

Antonio Smith is rated closely with Chris Canty and has out-produced him the past 3 seasons. Watch how much more money Canty gets guaranteed. This is the market!

Also, it obvious the organization was very excited about this particular player- based on what Kubes and Smith had to say at the combine and the fact that A. Smith was the first defensive FA they brought in for an interview. So, I think it's very inaccurate to characterise this signing as a "need to do something" .
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I saw him in the playoffs and he had a couple of nice plays - Safety against the Falcons being one of them. Have you seen him and based on your evaluations should he be one of the top 3 highest paid defensive players on the Texans? Talk about stirring the hornet's nest with Robinson and Ryans.

My emotions? Please do not project your emotions onto my emotionless takes on the team's transactions. The only emotion that has been evident is your ogling over all things Rick Smith. This signing does not help that locker room, future contractual negotiations with our currently signed players, let alone the field.

Once again, this is a Gardner/Bush play and Smith front loaded it which at least carried some intellect, but may blow up in his face. The only winner right now is Antonio Smith.
 
threetoedpete said:
Mario plays the other side. Someone to stand behind him in drills...sit beside him in the film room and explain to him what he's doing right and what he's doing wrong. Mario's skill set is so far off the charts, I do not see your point.
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The Texans did sign someone to do this ... His name is Bill Kollar.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Orakpo may be a 4-3 DE, but there is no chance he lasts till the 15th pick; which renders the discussion about him rather pointless. Brown is also likely to be off the board at 15 as well.
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I feel a bit differently. I think your going to see a reluctance by 3-4 teams to take a conversion guy early.

Look at the first round of the last 3 drafts. The only conversion guy that worked out was Kamerion Wimbley in Cleveland and they picked him at 13.

Guys like Anthony Spencer, Manny Lawson, and Vernon Gholtson have not worked out.

DeMarcus Ware kind of guys are not common.

I think Orakpo will be nabbed by a 4-3 team because of the reluctance by the 3-4 teams and the fact that he warrants a high choice. I think Brown will last to 15. You may see a 3-4 team grab him in the second half of the first round but I just don't see any reason why he should be a high pick by a 3-4 team. I've watched every game of Everette Brown's career @ FSU and he has little to no experience playing in a 3-4 OLB type of role. When we ran zone blitzes it was very rare that Brown would be the one to drop back, even as our RDE.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I saw him in the playoffs and he had a couple of nice plays - Safety against the Falcons being one of them. Have you seen him and based on your evaluations should he be one of the top 3 highest paid defensive players on the Texans? Talk about stirring the hornet's nest with Robinson and Ryans.

My emotions? Please do not project your emotions onto my emotionless takes on the team's transactions. The only emotion that has been evident is your ogling over all things Rick Smith. This signing does not help that locker room, future contractual negotiations with our currently signed players, let alone the field.

Once again, this is a Gardner/Bush play and Smith front loaded it which at least carried some intellect, but may blow up in his face. The only winner right now is Antonio Smith.
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Once again, sometimes you have to overpay in free agency to get the quality player. Antonio Smith is a quality NFL starter and with the way the draft is looking, there probably would not be a DE worth taking in the first two rounds. Signing Smith helps us a ton. It takes the pressure of drafting a DE off of us, and we can focus on one of the more "sure thing" players like Cushing, Matthews, Raji, Jenkins, etc.

Obviously, there are not any true sure things in the NFL draft but what I mean is these guys seem more NFL ready than Brown, Maybin, and even Orakpo. I think you are simply trying to not get your hopes up so you don't get let down. I strongly believe come the regular season you will be happy with this pickup.
 
I don't have much of a problem with this signing. It appears to be a decent contract. I was actually thinking we would have to pay even more than that to land him the way FA has been going.

As far as the on field performance, like some others, I'm taking the way and see approach.
 
Well first of all congratulations to Antonio Smith. He must be a happy man today! As for the signing itself, we won't know until he plays so I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the Texans front office. Obviously they targeted this guy and they got him. I think he'll be better than Weaver but then again Weaver set the bar so low that any decent player can outplay him.
 
I think this a great pick-up for the Texans. I've read most of you guys' posts and I understand why some of you are so cynical seeing that most of the free agents the Texans have signed lately haven't panned out. But Smith passes the eye test to me. He isn't Weaver 2.0. Weaver was like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole since he came out of 3-4 system. Smith isn't that guy. He's played in 4-3, is strong at the point of attack, and a relentless rusher. Good pick-up by Smithiak!:texflag:Welcome to Houston Antonio Smith!
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I saw him in the playoffs and he had a couple of nice plays - Safety against the Falcons being one of them. Have you seen him and based on your evaluations should he be one of the top 3 highest paid defensive players on the Texans? Talk about stirring the hornet's nest with Robinson and Ryans.

My emotions? Please do not project your emotions onto my emotionless takes on the team's transactions. The only emotion that has been evident is your ogling over all things Rick Smith. This signing does not help that locker room, future contractual negotiations with our currently signed players, let alone the field.

Once again, this is a Gardner/Bush play and Smith front loaded it which at least carried some intellect, but may blow up in his face. The only winner right now is Antonio Smith.
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Kaiser, I've not said anything about the player. I know he's got some explosiveness and I've been reading about him, and I've seen him when I've watched the Cards play. I'm not ogling over anything. You're cticising the signing based and comparing it to a Casserly style signing.

My point is that this is a player that the organization really wanted and, according to the current FA market and any reputable source I can find, they did not overpay for him. Also, I think it's very pessimistic to attack a signing before you really know much about the player.

I just watched the first half of the Atlanta game. Here are some observations:

1. He shuffled in an out quite a bit.
2. They moved him all over the line. I've already seen him lineup in all 4 DL spots
3. He's made a few plays penetrating the gaps from a DT spot.
4. I've not seen any special moves or speed rushes from the DE spot- but I've only seen him lineup there a couple times. He had a couple good bull rushes.
5. He held his ground on a number of double teams.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Once again, sometimes you have to overpay in free agency to get the quality player. Antonio Smith is a quality NFL starter and with the way the draft is looking, there probably would not be a DE worth taking in the first two rounds. Signing Smith helps us a ton. It takes the pressure of drafting a DE off of us, and we can focus on one of the more "sure thing" players like Cushing, Matthews, Raji, Jenkins, etc.

Obviously, there are not any true sure things in the NFL draft but what I mean is these guys seem more NFL ready than Brown, Maybin, and even Orakpo. I think you are simply trying to not get your hopes up so you don't get let down. I strongly believe come the regular season you will be happy with this pickup.
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Well, then it really depends on what your definition of a quality starter is. For the feeble Cardinals it was 13 starts in 2007 and 10 starts in 2008, before their miraculous run in the playoffs.

FWIW, the Cardinals were 5-1 in regular season games he did not start in 2008 and he had 5 games in which he registered four or more tackles which the Cardinals were in 1-4. Effective is not the operative word for me when dissecting his statistics, save for a nice run during the playoffs, based on the dollars we are outlaying.
 
Big Lou said:
For everyone that think the money is too high, just remember that these numbers are always deceptive. The contract could be heavily laced with incentives. The $12.5 mil gauranteed is the magic number, and thats not to out of line.

Also it's a five year deal and something tells me the heavy portion is in the back and not gauranteed. The guy is a high motor type so he probably has faith in his own ability. If his work ethic is as they say it is, he should at least be fun to watch on a D-Line with #90!!!!
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That's the number I always focus on. $12.5 over 3 yrs for a starting DE isn't exactly breaking the bank.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
FWIW, the Cardinals were 5-1 in regular season games he did not start in 2008 and he had 5 games in which he registered four or more tackles which the Cardinals were in 1-4. Effective is not the operative word for me when dissecting his statistics, save for a nice run during the playoffs, based on the dollars we are outlaying.
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I don't really understand this analysis. Are you trying to say the Cardinals were better when he was not the starter?

I think this is a good signing and clever way to lay out the money over the contract period.
 
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