trade down thought

[badboy]

Many have offered opinions on who could be there @#15. Some players like Crabtree is simply wishful thinking and some like Orakpo and Raji are possibles(at least some mock have them at 15 or a spot or two lower.)

My question is what player that has a realistic chance at being there, is worth more than a possible trade down package such as the 1,3 and 6th we got for #18? IMO a #15 should be a starter first year & could bring more than the last trade. I have limited choices so far to the two mentioned above, maybe one of the premier LBs that might drop and then Vontae Davis.

My thinking on CB Davis:6'0 200 4.39 and Walters has rated as top 20. Seems to be a pretty good candidate and possible upgrade over all except Dunta. Team may want to have a #15 CB in the fold to nudge DR to take less $. I would not take that approach as DR may be offended and just go elsewhere; but I can see the scenario as possible. Bennett may be back to form of rookie year and may not. Molden is a huge ?

The more I think on it, a trade down seems the way to go; if we can find a willing partner.

 

[JWarren14]

I agree depending on how draft day goes a trade down would be great. My biggest hope is that a player at a position we don't need right away falls and somebody pulls the trigger and trades up with us to get him. If we could get an Alphonso Smith/Delmas combo with a trade down I would be very excited.

 

[Goldensilence]

I think if Sanchez falls to us at 15 he's the perfect candidate for teams to trade up and get. Real possibility Chicago would want him and there's a few teams like Tampa would would most likely be looking to solve their QB situation long term.

IF Oher or one of the other LTs drop to us would the Lions want a LT that could keep, assuming they use the #1 on Stafford, upright?

 

[Polo]

If Wells from Ohio St. falls to us I'm taking him.

 

[badboy]

If Wells from Ohio St. falls to us I'm taking him.

THis is the type player I was referring to that could fall due to his health issues. Someone could think he is good for them and trade up. I don't think I'd take him at #15.

 

[badboy]

I agree depending on how draft day goes a trade down would be great. My biggest hope is that a player at a position we don't need right away falls and somebody pulls the trigger and trades up with us to get him. If we could get an Alphonso Smith/Delmas combo with a trade down I would be very excited.

SMith size scares me at 5'8". IMO we need to hit big with as few risks as possible where ever we select in first. Walters rates him picks him as 2nd-3rd round.http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009CB.php

Draft Scout has him higher and 5'9"http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33825&draftyear=2009&genpos=CB

Read the note in Jan about weakness of QBs against him. I just think WR in NFL like Fitzgerald will smack their lips against him.

 

[JWarren14]

SMith size scares me at 5'8". IMO we need to hit big with as few risks as possible where ever we select in first. Walters rates him picks him as 2nd-3rd round.http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009CB.php

Draft Scout has him higher and 5'9"http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33825&draftyear=2009&genpos=CB

Read the note in Jan about weakness of QBs against him. I just think WR in NFL like Fitzgerald will smack their lips against him.

I think opposing CBs shake in their cleats more than Fitz is smacking his lips, but I see your point.

He is undersized, but he always seems to come up with a big play in any game. I will have to see what his vertical comes in at, but I like the kid simply because he causes turnovers and that is something we have to stay positive in, because if it wasn't for turning the ball over we may have been in the playoffs this past year.

Edit: Just found a great article on Alphonso here

I think trading down and gaining picks is great in any draft if the timing and the board is right. Just look at last year with Slaton....draft day is too far away!

 

[V3rm0nt3r]

there are a lot of players that could drop including Sanchez Moreno Wells Maclin and Oher and it is looking as if at least one of them will and we are in the perfect place to trade down. with SD 1 behind us the RBs will be in high demand and with the Jets 2 behind we could wield and deal with someone looking to bolster their WR core or QB situation (Tampa Bay is hurting for two of the three positions so they could be our best bet).

OR all of the players mentioned above get drafted and one of the players that fill a position of need for the Texans will be available. (i like this one better)

 

[badboy]

I think if Sanchez falls to us at 15 he's the perfect candidate for teams to trade up and get. Real possibility Chicago would want him and there's a few teams like Tampa would would most likely be looking to solve their QB situation long term.

IF Oher or one of the other LTs drop to us would the Lions want a LT that could keep, assuming they use the #1 on Stafford, upright?

I would gladly trade down with Detroit and get their 2nd. # 20 I'd trade down again and late first round select Ayers DE, Detroit's 2 SHonn Green, our 2 Ron Brace NT 3.Rashad Johnson FS 4 ours Louis Vasquez O.G. and 4th from trade from #20 I'd pick Scott McKillop ILB

 

[Insideop]

there are a lot of players that could drop including Sanchez Moreno Wells Maclin and Oher and it is looking as if at least one of them will and we are in the perfect place to trade down. with SD 1 behind us the RBs will be in high demand and with the Jets 2 behind we could wield and deal with someone looking to bolster their WR core or QB situation (Tampa Bay is hurting for two of the three positions so they could be our best bet).

OR all of the players mentioned above get drafted and one of the players that fill a position of need for the Texans will be available. (i like this one better)

To have Sanchez drop would be the ideal situation for us because teams put more of a premium on QB's. And with this class being pretty thin at QB, there would probably be a lot of interest in him if he fell to us, which is very unlikely. But, if he did, Tampa would be a most likely trading partner at #19. They would give us the 19th and 83rd (3rd rd) picks, which happen to equal out just right on the point value chart (#15=1050 pts) = (#19=875 pts + #83=175 pts). This, of course, is just one possible scenario. There may be more teams farther down, like the Vikings at #22, who could be more desperate and would have to give up a lot more to move up. Whatever happens it should be interesting. JMHO!

 

[badboy]

Ok, the draft is this Saturday, right? What? Oh, nooooo!

 

[twelvegage]

I think opposing CBs shake in their cleats more than Fitz is smacking his lips, but I see your point.

He is undersized, but he always seems to come up with a big play in any game. I will have to see what his vertical comes in at, but I like the kid simply because he causes turnovers and that is something we have to stay positive in, because if it wasn't for turning the ball over we may have been in the playoffs this past year.

Edit: Just found a great article on Alphonso here

I think trading down and gaining picks is great in any draft if the timing and the board is right. Just look at last year with Slaton....draft day is too far away!

I agree with everything you've said in this thread. Smith is short, but he makes plays, and that's what we need. Him and Delmas, and a pass rusher in there somewhere = perfect to me. Especially if we could add someone like James Davis in the 3rd or 4th.

And Fitzgerald smacks his lips against everything less than triple coverage.

 

[TimeKiller]

I would gladly trade down with Detroit and get their 2nd. # 20 I'd trade down again and late first round select Ayers DE, Detroit's 2 SHonn Green, our 2 Ron Brace NT 3.Rashad Johnson FS 4 ours Louis Vasquez O.G. and 4th from trade from #20 I'd pick Scott McKillop ILB

awesome

Double trade down. Middle round picks have been a strength of Smith imo.

 

[otisbean]

I think if a QB falls and you want him you have to be ahead of the Jets. If there is a RB that you want I think you have to get ahead of the CHargers. There is some drama going on between LT and the Bolts. I think they resign Sproles and if LT doesn't restructure then it could get interesting as he has a HUGE cap figure and they have a couple of guys that need new deals.

 

[BigBull17]

I think if a QB falls and you want him you have to be ahead of the Jets. If there is a RB that you want I think you have to get ahead of the CHargers. There is some drama going on between LT and the Bolts. I think they resign Sproles and if LT doesn't restructure then it could get interesting as he has a HUGE cap figure and they have a couple of guys that need new deals.

This could work out well for us.

 

[YoungTexanFan]

As far as the original topic, guys who might fall and would be worth more to this team than a trade down, IMO:

Maualuga, Cushing, Maybin.

Guys I don't like that I think are valuable to us only as trade down material:
E. Brown
Raji
Sanchez


Guys who are probably worth our pick that I don't think we need, but could generate interest from other teams:
Wells, V. Davis

 

[Señor Stan]

If Wells from Ohio St. falls to us I'm taking him.

sincerely,

Rashard Mendenhall

 

[badboy]

I agree with everything you've said in this thread. Smith is short, but he makes plays, and that's what we need. Him and Delmas, and a pass rusher in there somewhere = perfect to me. Especially if we could add someone like James Davis in the 3rd or 4th.

And Fitzgerald smacks his lips against everything less than triple coverage.

This 5'9" guy can make plays in college, does that translate to NFL?

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

If Wells from Ohio St. falls to us I'm taking him.

I'm not a fan of Wells at all. If we do take an offensive player in round 1, I'm thinking it could be Jeremy Maclin- which would cause these boards to light up. If we go RB, I'd much rather have Moreno. In anycase, I'd prefer a Defensive player or a trade down, but I'd think Maclin or Moreno > Wells. I would rather have Moreno or Donald Brown... maybe even Green or McCoy than Wells.

I agree with the players previously posted that could be prospects for a team to trade up for. SD, CHI, TB picking after us the RBs/WRs might get taken and a team could try and jump them for "their guy".

 

[badboy]

I think if a QB falls and you want him you have to be ahead of the Jets. If there is a RB that you want I think you have to get ahead of the CHargers. There is some drama going on between LT and the Bolts. I think they resign Sproles and if LT doesn't restructure then it could get interesting as he has a HUGE cap figure and they have a couple of guys that need new deals.

So Chargers could trade up one spot to get that player they need and we get a __? They make trade as they want a RB, say Beanie Wells & they think we might select him.

 

[badboy]

As far as the original topic, guys who might fall and would be worth more to this team than a trade down, IMO:

Maualuga, Cushing, Maybin.

Guys I don't like that I think are valuable to us only as trade down material:
E. Brown
Raji
Sanchez


Guys who are probably worth our pick that I don't think we need, but could generate interest from other teams:
Wells, V. Davis

I thought Cushing was consider a better LB in 3-4? I have not followed that postion as I think we are set with Diles, Mario, Adibi, Chaun Thompson and Bentley. I can see a LB in 5th or later. Too many more pressing needs.

 

[badboy]

awesome

Double trade down. Middle round picks have been a strength of Smith imo.

Remember after the trade down last year and Kubes said he went to get something to drink and coming back he heard the telephone ring? He was concerned SMith might accept an offer to trade down more and Kubes wanted Brown. i could see that happen again. I see this draft being deep enough with our needs to have multiple moves.

 

[YoungTexanFan]

I thought Cushing was consider a better LB in 3-4? I have not followed that postion as I think we are set with Diles, Mario, Adibi, Chaun Thompson and Bentley. I can see a LB in 5th or later. Too many more pressing needs.

Cushing is just as talented as Curry. He gets bashed on a few boards by people who haven't followed him at all or who have a bias against USC. He won't go as high as Curry because Cushing has some durability issues in the past. Curry is better in coverage by a few degrees, but arguing the differences is negligible. Both guys can play in either scheme.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I thought Cushing was consider a better LB in 3-4? I have not followed that postion as I think we are set with Diles, Mario, Adibi, Chaun Thompson and Bentley. I can see a LB in 5th or later. Too many more pressing needs.

Seriously? IMO, it's right up there near the top behind a DE and S. Honestly, I'm not very impressed with any of the highly rated DE's so I wouldn't be upset at all with a LB as our first pick.

 

[otisbean]

So Chargers could trade up one spot to get that player they need and we get a __? They make trade as they want a RB, say Beanie Wells & they think we might select him.

I am suggesting that if a team like Philly for example, loves Wells I think if you really want him getting ahead of SD is a smart decision.

 

[V3rm0nt3r]

Seriously? IMO, it's right up there near the top behind a DE and S. Honestly, I'm not very impressed with any of the highly rated DE's so I wouldn't be upset at all with a LB as our first pick.

i'm not high on any of the DEs either at the top of either (except for maybe Kruger as a late first rounder) but i like the OLB position that we have for the most part. a young trio in Adibi Diles and Ryans will be exciting to watch moving forward. the one addition i would like to see is a blitzing OLB. not a 3-4 OLB/DE who will have the same number of snaps with his hand on the ground as he has standing up. but more of like a guy who is just an edge rushing OLB. a guy like Zach Follett in the 4th if he's still there or Victor Butler in the 5th.

 

[rarazz00]

If we were to trade down, I wouldn't be suprised to see McSmithiak taking a guard or center(to play right away) Not sure if Duke Robinson-OG; Max Unger-OC,OG or Alex Mack-OC fit the ZBS, but if they do, again I wouldn't be suprised for this selection...What would suprise me is RB QB or WR takin' in the 1st round

 

[Hottoddie]

I would think that our most likely trade partner could be Minnesota. I doubt Sanchez will get past San Francisco, but with the Jets at #17 & Tampa Bay at #19 Minnesota might decide it's worth the price to move up for Josh Freeman.

Based upon the point value chart, we'd get their 1st (22) & 2nd (54).

However, I would entertain the idea of their 1st (22), 3rd (86), & Chester Taylor (RB).

1) (22) Laurinaitis (OLB/ILB)
2a) Ron Brace (DT)
2b) Conner Barwin (DE)
3) Rashad Jennings (RB)
4) Nic Harris (SS)
5) Mike Reilly (QB)
6) Tyronne Green (G)
7) Brandon Swain (DE)

 

[bah007]

I would think that our most likely trade partner could be Minnesota. I doubt Sanchez will get past San Francisco, but with the Jets at #17 & Tampa Bay at #19 Minnesota might decide it's worth the price to move up for Josh Freeman.

Based upon the point value chart, we'd get their 1st (22) & 2nd (54).

However, I would entertain the idea of their 1st (22), 3rd (86), & Chester Taylor (RB).

1) (22) Laurinaitis (OLB/ILB)
2a) Ron Brace (DT)
2b) Conner Barwin (DE)
3) Rashad Jennings (RB)
4) Nic Harris (SS)
5) Mike Reilly (QB)
6) Tyronne Green (G)
7) Brandon Swain (DE)

Why would they have to trade up for Freeman?...

 

[Hottoddie]

Why would they have to trade up for Freeman?...

They might not have to, but if the Jets feel Favre is going to retire for real this time, they might select him at 17 & I've seen a couple of mocks, that I tend to trust, having Tampa Bay selecting him at 19. There's also the outside possibility that Detroit selects an OT with the #1 pick & makes a move on Freeman at 20. There's no way I can see either one of Stafford & Sanchez getting past KC & SF. Of course, it's all speculation & pipe dreams at this point, but stranger things have happened.

 

[threetoedpete]

If we were to trade down, I wouldn't be suprised to see McSmithiak taking a guard or center(to play right away) Not sure if Duke Robinson-OG; Max Unger-OC,OG or Alex Mack-OC fit the ZBS, but if they do, again I wouldn't be suprised for this selection...What would suprise me is RB QB or WR takin' in the 1st round

First off, it's rare to have one center go off the board in the first. This group has three or four who could command second round picks. They are talented athletic and can cover several positions on the line. We watched them all do it during the senior bowl game.

I thought Brisiel had a very nice stretch at the end of the year. I don't think that right guard is as big a problem as every one is making it out to be. The problem is the red zone efficiency. They're at 42%....near the bottom of the league. So the big question is are they going to shake up the o-line and up grade Myers....or are they going to live with the production in the red zone and hope they can find a bigger back or better play calling which will elevate the 42% ? As the field shrinks so does Myer's production. Between the twenties he's everything they want in the position.

First few years there weren't great OLTs to draft. We had to live with what we had. That's not true this year at the center spot. First couple of rounds they can have their pick of the litter. Makes a trade down more appealing to bang the center spot. What we don't know is how much they love Myers. And does Chris White have more upside than just a back up ? I like Beerlover's current mock. Bang the three front seven....OLB,DE, DE one, two, three. Be done with it. But a guy who can cover three interior o-line positions is valuable as well.

 

[otisbean]

Your right, lots of good OC prospects here and we could certainly use an upgrade. I would love to see us move back, add a pick, and pick up a big ugly to beef up the OL.

 

[The1ApplePie]

Maclin
Maulauga
Orakpo

If any of these guys are there at 15, take them. Otherwise, trade down

 

[PHAROAH]

I say trade down if Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo are taken at #15. The one guy I could see maybe looking at drafting if we stay at #15 is OLB Brian Cushing from USC he would add the blitzing element from the linebacking core that is missing big time. But trading down and picking up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick would be great.

 

[TexansFan33]

I say trade back if we can get ahold of Mark Sanchez(QB USC) at 15 I think he will be bait for another desperate team to forefit a 2nd or 3rd to us.

 

[bah007]

I say trade back if we can get ahold of Mark Sanchez(QB USC) at 15 I think he will be bait for another desperate team to forefit a 2nd or 3rd to us.

I still think our best way out of the 15 is for Sanchez to fall to us and somebody wants to trade with us to move in front of the Jets.

 

[badboy]

Seriously? IMO, it's right up there near the top behind a DE and S. Honestly, I'm not very impressed with any of the highly rated DE's so I wouldn't be upset at all with a LB as our first pick.

IMO, LB is not our issue in stopping the run as they are usually high in tackles. We need to stop the run with our Dline. That is the disadvantage of selecting a DE over Raji or even Ron Brace. We should be able to get NT, DE and a power back with out any trade downs. That will stop the run, give Mario a hand out and increase scoring in red zone. A LB could be picked up in free agency as with Thompson and Bentley.

It is always good to add depth but not at expense of need. I see this also with our corners. DR and Reeves to start with Bennett being re-vitalized with Robinson there to coach him. Molden if healthy may surpass Bennett. Eugene Wilson may remain in mix but Faggins? Although fans have been trying to trashcan him for two years.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

IMO, LB is not our issue in stopping the run as they are usually high in tackles. We need to stop the run with our Dline.

Sure, our LB made lots of tackles but with Greenwood (prior to this year) those tackles were mainly 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. Although I think Diles is better than that, a lot of his tackles were in that same range. If healthy, Adibi and Demeco are fine and make more plays around the line of scrimmage.

But I think it's difficult to look at ourselves historically and really identify where the problem with our defense really lies. For the most part, both our LB's and linemen were asked by Smith to play a read and react, non-aggressive defense. That could explain why our LB's have been making so many tackles so deep into the defensive secondary but it could also explain why our dline was so ineffectual. By the time they made their reads, the play was already past them.

I expect us to look at a DE to upgrade over Weaver and I expect us to look at an OLB to upgrade Diles. If you get a good SAM in the draft, you've got Diles backing him up and Bentley backing up Demeco. I just don't know the order that they're going to go after those guys and it may depend on who's available and who's on their draft board.

 

[threetoedpete]

I expect us to look at an OLB to upgrade Diles

The problem with the two OLBs wasn't their production. When Diles hurt himself he was actually leading the team in tackles. Don't confuse draft status with production. We punked thirtyone other teams and hit a monster in the seventh round with Diles. TBS....the fact that Adibi took eight games to get on line and the fact that Diles is coming off the hurt leg....you bang that first. You cover the athleticism in the back seven with a high end guy who will not embarrass you if he has to start in September because Diles is PUPed or Adibi is dinged. And if that guy happens to give you a bone fide pass rush when they send five, so much the better.

 

[bah007]

The problem with the two OLBs wasn't their production. When Diles hurt himself he was actually leading the team in tackles. Don't confuse draft status with production. We punked thirtyone other teams and hit a monster in the seventh round with Diles. TBS....the fact that Adibi took eight games to get on line and the fact that Diles is coming off the hurt leg....you bang that first. You cover the athleticism in the back seven with a high end guy who will not embarrass you if he has to start in September because Diles is PUPed or Adibi is dinged. And if that guy happens to give you a bone fide pass rush when they send five, so much the better.

Just because a guy played well doesn't mean he shouldn't have to compete for his job.

I don't think we will go into the draft or FA looking for a replacement for Diles, but if we end up signing or drafting someone at that position then he should have to compete for the spot.

 

[threetoedpete]

Just because a guy played well doesn't mean he shouldn't have to compete for his job.

I don't think we will go into the draft or FA looking for a replacement for Diles, but if we end up signing or drafting someone at that position then he should have to compete for the spot.

All I know about it is once Demeeco got the two more athletic guys next to him the defense elevated. McClain believes it was the return of Robinson. I believe the young 'uns at OLB got enough reps and they learned what they were doing they were making plays. Compete would that be what they were doing with Greenwood and Weaver the first eight games ?

I don't understand your logic when you find a guy...no matter what round you selected him in....you're ready to replace him with an unknown. What we don't know about Diles is where his leg will be at in August. As far as his play....there's not a FA on the board I'd replace him with. He's a guy playing under a seventh round contract. He doesn't need anyone lighting a fire under him. He's like everyone else. He wants to get paid.

 

[badboy]

Sure, our LB made lots of tackles but with Greenwood (prior to this year) those tackles were mainly 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. Although I think Diles is better than that, a lot of his tackles were in that same range. If healthy, Adibi and Demeco are fine and make more plays around the line of scrimmage.

But I think it's difficult to look at ourselves historically and really identify where the problem with our defense really lies. For the most part, both our LB's and linemen were asked by Smith to play a read and react, non-aggressive defense. That could explain why our LB's have been making so many tackles so deep into the defensive secondary but it could also explain why our dline was so ineffectual. By the time they made their reads, the play was already past them.

I expect us to look at a DE to upgrade over Weaver and I expect us to look at an OLB to upgrade Diles. If you get a good SAM in the draft, you've got Diles backing him up and Bentley backing up Demeco. I just don't know the order that they're going to go after those guys and it may depend on who's available and who's on their draft board.

You have identified why we need a stronger Dline. None of our guys are good at stopping the run. We need an upgrade over Weaver who basically can do neither, get to Qb or stop run. I have Robert Ayers on my board for that. A strong NT should do rest. Does not do Mario (and it does seem like it is only him getting in the QB's personal space)any good to have the guy shovel off to the RB who gets yardage.

 

[bah007]

All I know about it is once Demeeco got the two more athletic guys next to him the defense elevated. McClain believes it was the return of Robinson. I believe the young 'uns at OLB got enough reps and they learned what they were doing they were making plays. Compete would that be what they were doing with Greenwood and Weaver the first eight games ?

I don't understand your logic when you find a guy...no matter what round you selected him in....you're ready to replace him with an unknown. What we don't know about Diles is where his leg will be at in August. As far as his play....there's not a FA on the board I'd replace him with. He's a guy playing under a seventh round contract. He doesn't need anyone lighting a fire under him. He's like everyone else. He wants to get paid.

As I said, I don't think we should go searching for a replacement for Diles.

What I think is that Diles hasn't earned anything. If we find a guy in the later rounds that plays better than Diles in the spring, then that kid should play, not Diles.

You should always be looking to upgrade your team however you can. If you find a guy in the draft that does better in the spring than the incumbent, then he should get the job. But that doesn't mean I think that Diles is a weak link or anything.

 

[WolverineFan]

As I said, I don't think we should go searching for a replacement for Diles.

What I think is that Diles hasn't earned anything. If we find a guy in the later rounds that plays better than Diles in the spring, then that kid should play, not Diles.

You should always be looking to upgrade your team however you can. If you find a guy in the draft that does better in the spring than the incumbent, then he should get the job. But that doesn't mean I think that Diles is a weak link or anything.

He has potential, but he has yet to show any sustained success. At this point the only 2 guys that are safe are Mario & Demeco. Every other job is up for grabs.