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Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

The Heisman trophy is a freakin joke. What a coincidence that the most outstanding player in college football has been a RB or a QB 69 out of the last 73 years. And funny how that guy happens to play for a perennial powerhouse 95% of the time.

Just one more reason that college football sucks compared to the NFL.
 
Not trying to be a big 12 homer, but I am a bit surprised Tebow is in there and not Graham Harrell. Sure Tebow is a good college QB, but for him to be there and not GH doesn't sound right IMO. Really though, i'm not sure it matters I think Bradford gets it and deservedly so. And i'm a UT fan. I would like to see it go to Colt, but you can't deny what Bradford has done. And if Tebow wins, that will be completely effed up.
 
while I DO understand that the Heisman is the best COLLEGE player

And while I do know there are players all the time that their College game doesn't match well with the NFL game

I find it interesting how many players winning it become players that basically don't make a scratch in the NFL game

http://www.heisman.com/winners/hsmn-winners.html

Just looking at the surface, one would deduct that if a player was that good in college, he would do at least semi-decent in the PRO game
 
Wolf said:
while I DO understand that the Heisman is the best COLLEGE player

And while I do know there are players all the time that their College game doesn't match well with the NFL game

I find it interesting how many players winning it become players that basically don't make a scratch in the NFL game

http://www.heisman.com/winners/hsmn-winners.html

Just looking at the surface, one would deduct that if a player was that good in college, he would do at least semi-decent in the PRO game
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Yeah I know, it's almost as if it's a curse, only there are some who do well. But just thinking back who is the last Heisman winner that was a Quarterback who did well in the NFL? I should have clicked your link first.

**edit, okay i'm an ***** I forgot about Palmer. But looking at the list it's glaring how many really did not translate well to the nfl.
 
headsplint said:
Yeah I know, it's almost as if it's a curse, only there are some who do well. But just thinking back who is the last Heisman winner that was a Quarterback who did well in the NFL? I should have clicked your link first.
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Carson Palmer I guess you could say and before that Troy Aikman
 
dc_txtech said:
The Heisman trophy is a freakin joke. What a coincidence that the most outstanding player in college football has been a RB or a QB 69 out of the last 73 years. And funny how that guy happens to play for a perennial powerhouse 95% of the time.

Just one more reason that college football sucks compared to the NFL.
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Everyone knows the Heisman voting is ridiculous.

Tebow jumped Harrell in the voting because of the way Florida played down the stretch compared to how Tech played.

Tech players won't shake that "system offense" moniker unless they make it to the big time. This year was probably their best chance.
 
The fact that Tech gets labelled as a system offense, while UT and Florida doesn't is a joke. The zone option running game out of the spread is every bit the "system" as Tech's short passing/long hand-off attack. In fact Tebow's numbers last year where the most system generated numbers in the history of college football and he still got the Heisman.

All of these guys had bad games, Harrell just had his last so he gets the shafting. If Harrell played at any of the big name programs not only would he have gotten the invite, he'd probably walk away with the award.
 
Tebow is still pretty outstanding.

A lot of time the winner of the heisman wins it purely based on his physical ability. In college you can still get by on your physical talents. Even for non heisman winners. The college takes just as much smarts as it does physicallness (word?).

It's just like the jump from high school to college. You can have outstanding HS players that just don't do as well in college. Like the 5 star recruits that don't pan out. Sometimes players just peak at different times.
 
The way I look at it is how each team would do without said player. IMO, Tech and Oklahoma would still be very good football teams due to the "system"(Tech) and the players that surround them (Oklahoma). Texas and Florida would not be as productive as they are with their players.

IMO, it should go to Colt. Out of the candidates he's the one that meant more to his team than the others.

I doubt he'll get it, but I just thought I'd throw my .02 out there. :)
 
Hoth-Boy said:
The fact that Tech gets labelled as a system offense, while UT and Florida doesn't is a joke. The zone option running game out of the spread is every bit the "system" as Tech's short passing/long hand-off attack. In fact Tebow's numbers last year where the most system generated numbers in the history of college football and he still got the Heisman.

All of these guys had bad games, Harrell just had his last so he gets the shafting. If Harrell played at any of the big name programs not only would he have gotten the invite, he'd probably walk away with the award.
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I think Harrell lost it in the Baylor game to be honest.

He was not nearly as effective when Crabtree went down (as expected). Crabtree is more valuable to Tech's offense, and he is the most talented player on the team.

If any of Tech's players got snubbed, it is Crabtree.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
The fact that Tech gets labelled as a system offense, while UT and Florida doesn't is a joke. The zone option running game out of the spread is every bit the "system" as Tech's short passing/long hand-off attack. In fact Tebow's numbers last year where the most system generated numbers in the history of college football and he still got the Heisman.

All of these guys had bad games, Harrell just had his last so he gets the shafting. If Harrell played at any of the big name programs not only would he have gotten the invite, he'd probably walk away with the award.
Click to expand...

The reason Tech gets the "system offense" moniker is because they throw on nearly every down.

Their stats are devalued because they are inflated by the offense they run.

Texas and Florida each run a spread offense, but they have much more balance between run and pass.
 
bah007 said:
The reason Tech gets the "system offense" moniker is because they throw on nearly every down.

Their stats are devalued because they are inflated by the offense they run.

Texas and Florida each run a spread offense, but they have much more balance between run and pass.
Click to expand...

Tech was more balanced this year then any any previous year under Leach.

Eric Crouch won the Heismen, and at the time Nebraska ran the ball nearly everydown. Were his stats devalued? Andre Ware and Ty Detmer won the ball throwing it more then Harrell did. Were their stats devalued? Colt's and Tebow's running numbers are generated by the zone option read, a system, should their stats be devalued?

I never thought Harrell was going to win the award, but he was certainly worthy of an invite.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Tech was more balanced this year then any any previous year under Leach.

Eric Crouch won the Heismen, and at the time Nebraska ran the ball nearly everydown. Were his stats devalued? Andre Ware and Ty Detmer won the ball throwing it more then Harrell did. Were their stats devalued? Colt's and Tebow's running numbers are generated by the zone option read, a system, should their stats be devalued?

I never thought Harrell was going to win the award, but he was certainly worthy of an invite.
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I'm not gonna say it's fair, because it's not. It just is what it is.

I heard on Mike and Mike this morning that one possibility is that he is gonna be such a distant fourth in the voting they didn't want him to show up thinking he has a shot and then be embarrassed when he comes away with hardly any votes.

They only invite the people who have a realistic chance of winning. Whether Harrell gets invited or not, he is still going to finish in fourth place, meaning he has no shot at winning.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Tech was more balanced this year then any any previous year under Leach.

Eric Crouch won the Heismen, and at the time Nebraska ran the ball nearly everydown. Were his stats devalued? Andre Ware and Ty Detmer won the ball throwing it more then Harrell did. Were their stats devalued? Colt's and Tebow's running numbers are generated by the zone option read, a system, should their stats be devalued?

I never thought Harrell was going to win the award, but he was certainly worthy of an invite.
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You made good points throughout this post but this was not one of them.

The zone read is just one play in the spread offense. The spread is the "system" of offense.

I don't know many times Tebow keeps the ball on the zone read, but Colt only does it two or three times per game. Most of his runs are on draws and scrambles, plays that every other team runs.
 
bah007 said:
You made good points throughout this post but this was not one of them.

The zone read is just one play in the spread offense. The spread is the "system" of offense.

I don't know many times Tebow keeps the ball on the zone read, but Colt only does it two or three times per game. Most of his runs are on draws and scrambles, plays that every other team runs.
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I think it's safe to say that there is developing a divergence in what is known as the spread offense, the teams that use the zone option read as part of their spread, ala UT, Florida, etc and those teams that run the traditional spread, ala Tech, Missouri, etc.

I'd classify both as "systems", or at the very least distant cousins under the same system.

But they, and the numbers it can generate for the QBs, are still systems.
 
HOU-TEX said:
The way I look at it is how each team would do without said player. IMO, Tech and Oklahoma would still be very good football teams due to the "system"(Tech) and the players that surround them (Oklahoma). Texas and Florida would not be as productive as they are with their players.

IMO, it should go to Colt. Out of the candidates he's the one that meant more to his team than the others.

I doubt he'll get it, but I just thought I'd throw my .02 out there. :)
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That's more indicative of a most valuable player (MVP) award than the heisman (most oustanding college player). I think for the heisman, you have to look at it in all sorts of ways. Just stats wont tell the picture, you gotta look at so many different qualities of the person, team, opponents, stats, etc. But I think how your looking at it is definitely a very important part.
 
dc_txtech said:
The Heisman trophy is a freakin joke. What a coincidence that the most outstanding player in college football has been a RB or a QB 69 out of the last 73 years. And funny how that guy happens to play for a perennial powerhouse 95% of the time.

Just one more reason that college football sucks compared to the NFL.
Click to expand...

the NFL MVP has been awarded for 50 years by the Associated Press. 47 of those years, the MVP went to a RB or a QB.

blame the voters
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
That's more indicative of a most valuable player (MVP) award than the heisman (most oustanding college player). I think for the heisman, you have to look at it in all sorts of ways. Just stats wont tell the picture, you gotta look at so many different qualities of the person, team, opponents, stats, etc. But I think how your looking at it is definitely a very important part.
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There is no defined criteria for the Heisman trophy. The voters change the criteria every single year.

One year it is the best stats, then best player on best team, then best player, then best stats again.

Because there is no defined criteria, I think it should become an MVP trophy.
 
i don't think the voters change it every year. i think there's a new discussion every year and certain voters speak up more than others and it seems like it changes, but for the most part, the voters all just have their own set of criteria
 
It does not mater what you do with the critera for the Heisman, it'll still go to a QB 90% of the time.

If it was truly an MVP trophy then there are more players, who are more valuable to their teams then the 3 QBs headed to NYC. But the flipside is that it would be like the MLB MVP award, which is to say it would be the most valuable player on a winning/contending team.

If the Heisman was an MVP award a strong argueement could be made that Jacquiz Rogers (sp?), from Oregan State, was the most valueable player to his team.
 
kastofsna said:
i don't think the voters change it every year. i think there's a new discussion every year and certain voters speak up more than others and it seems like it changes, but for the most part, the voters all just have their own set of criteria
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That's closer to the point I was trying to make.

I think that the trophy would be better off being defined as a MVP trophy. They already have awards like the Maxwell and the Bednarik that go to the "best player".
 
Hoth-Boy said:
It does not mater what you do with the critera for the Heisman, it'll still go to a QB 90% of the time.

If it was truly an MVP trophy then there are more players more valuable to their teams then the 3 QBs headed to NYC. But the flipside it would be like the MLB MVP award, which is to say it would be the most valuable player on a winning/contending team.

If the Heisman was an MVP award a strong argueement could be made that Jacquiz Rogers (sp?), from Oregan State, was the most valueable player to his team.
Click to expand...

I would say Colt McCoy or Shonn Greene.
 
bah007 said:
I would say Colt McCoy or Shonn Greene.
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I agree with you about Shonn Greene, without him Iowa is nada this year.

Without Colt, I think UT stuggles, but Childs could have atleast gotten them to a decent bowl game. I know that would be below UT's standards but I don't think there season would implode without Colt. (Tech would have probably make a fairly smooth mid season transition from Harrell to Potts). The QB at Baylor is probably more valuable to Baylor then either Colt or Harrell is to their respective schools, just because of depth and quality of the 2nd string.

See now we have to define what constitutes value when decieding an MVP.
 
bah007 said:
That's closer to the point I was trying to make.

I think that the trophy would be better off being defined as a MVP trophy. They already have awards like the Maxwell and the Bednarik that go to the "best player".
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right, but even "best player" is a very different thing to many people. "best player" means "most valuable player" to some. even so, the Maxwell hasn't be awarded to a non-QB/RB since Desmond Howard. in fact, it appears the percentage for QBs and RBs getting the Maxwell is higher than the Heisman. so there's bias inherent in any award when a bunch of vastly different people vast their ballots
 
Hoth-Boy said:
If the Heisman was an MVP award a strong argueement could be made that Jacquiz Rogers (sp?), from Oregan State, was the most valueable player to his team.
Click to expand...

the problem i have with the whole MVP thing is it brings into question a lot of hypothetical debates, mainly "this player is so valuable, imagine the team without him." to me, it's pointless to discuss that, i'm more concerned with what the actual player does. and plus i don't think the MVP award in any sport is actually supposed to give it to the most valuable player in terms of their worth to the team, but rather their overall resume. i think the word "valuable" gets looked at too closely at times. other sports clear it up by saying "most outstanding player" and similar. it's all the same award
 
bah007 said:
Everyone knows the Heisman voting is ridiculous.

Tebow jumped Harrell in the voting because of the way Florida played down the stretch compared to how Tech played.

Tech players won't shake that "system offense" moniker unless they make it to the big time. This year was probably their best chance.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't see what the big deal about Harrell is in the first place. BJ Symons threw for over a thousand more yards and 11 more TD's than Graham in his senior year and I don't recall hearing anyone complain about that. And he did it on a torn ACL. But then again if either of them played for USC they would have won the award by October.

On the other hand, Crabtree not getting an invite or even being talked about as a possible invite is what really chaps my ass. I know I'm in the minority in thinking that, even among Tech fans but that's the way I see it.

bah007 said:
Crabtree is more valuable to Tech's offense, and he is the most talented player on the team.

If any of Tech's players got snubbed, it is Crabtree.
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Cosigned
 
bah007 said:
I heard on Mike and Mike this morning that one possibility is that he is gonna be such a distant fourth in the voting they didn't want him to show up thinking he has a shot and then be embarrassed when he comes away with hardly any votes.

They only invite the people who have a realistic chance of winning. Whether Harrell gets invited or not, he is still going to finish in fourth place, meaning he has no shot at winning.
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Perhaps this is the correct reason why he wasn't invited. Here is a site that has correctly predicted the Heisman winner for the past six years:

http://www.stiffarmtrophy.com/

Their projected totals right now:
Bradford - 1687
McCoy - 1516
Tebow - 1446
Harrell - 66
Greene - 56
Crabtree - 29
Click to expand...

These are just projections right now. What they do is track down voters and ask them what their ballots look like. The more they talk to, the more accurate they get.
 
they need to stick to a number. some years it's 3 invited, some it's 4 or 5, and i think i've seen 6 at one point, too
 
well not really, they always invite at least three. when Bush blew everyone out of the water they still had Young and Leinart there, despite no chance at winning
 
kastofsna said:
well not really, they always invite at least three. when Bush blew everyone out of the water they still had Young and Leinart there, despite no chance at winning
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Before the votes were counted, it was believed that Young and Leinart may have a chance.

Turned out not to be close.
 
Heisman award show is about to begin.

This is the first time I can remember where three different guys could win this award and you wouldn't be surprised if any of their names were called.

My preference (being a UT fan) is McCoy. But I think Bradford will win it.
 
Bradford wins.

McCoy finishes in a very close second place. Tebow right behind him for third.

Harrell way way behind in fourth.

5. Crabtree
6. Shonn Greene
7. Pat White
 
Tebow got the most 1st and 3rd place votes, but Bradford got something like 180 more second place votes. Not often the guy that gets the most 1st place votes loses.
 
edo783 said:
Tebow got the most 1st and 3rd place votes, but Bradford got something like 180 more second place votes. Not often the guy that gets the most 1st place votes loses.
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That's what I heard was going to happen. On his show on Friday, Dan Patrick had all 3 candidates on and some internet hack said he predicted whoever got the most 2nd place votes would win.
 
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