Zone blocking is guard>tackle?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by JamesBill, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. JamesBill

    JamesBill Veteran

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    In zone plays it seems like the guard is the one with the harder responsibilities in the run game. During pass protection they are not facing elite rushers like the tackles are but in run plays they have to deal with linemen and LBs where the tackles can just pancake the ends.
     
  2. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    old old video

    http://www.houstontexans.com/media-...h-course/6093856A-4179-4488-9D0E-3615795FCCAC

    http://www.houstontexans.com/media-...Run-Game/780fd097-e9d3-4c52-bbde-303514d661b3

    http://www.houstontexans.com/media-...ong-runs/bb19e93a-fb00-401a-b035-ad3f5d9438b7
     
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  3. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    Each has its individual importance. The guards must deal with larger inside D and LBs, and "pull." The tackles need strenght on runs and agility on pass protection. The truth is that without precision teamwork of all the linemen, a successful zone blocking scheme is difficult to create.
     
  4. Rey

    Rey Guest

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    Overall I'd say that guards are more important because no matter which way the play is going, picking up their guy is vital and they have to work to get there every play...Whereas a backside tackle may not have to work very hard to keep his man out of the play...

    But it also depends on the front you are blocking and the play called...
     
  5. Carr Bombed

    Carr Bombed Hall of Fame

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    There are different types of zone philosphies and zone systems and I've heard on multiple occasions that what we run is a "inside zone system" so yes, I'd have to agree the play of our guards is more important than that of the tackles in the running game (reason why losing Brisiel to injury made such a noticable difference, but make no mistake here...

    I've said multiple times that Duane Brown is the best run blocking LT in the league and Eric Winston could possibly be the best run blocking RT.. It was a luxaury to have that tackle combination within this system and Eric Winston will be missed in that department. However if we can find a RT (Butler) who isn't that far off, but is much better in pass protection, we'll be better off in the long run.

    This is also why I'm much more worried about finding someone to replace Mike Brisiel over finding whoever we stick at RT and consider Brisiel's loss much greater than Winston's departure. We have alot of work to do on the Oline now, we need to find a RG that can more than push Caldwell for the job and we need to find a swing tackle who can fill the shoes that Butler just stepped out of.
     
  6. DocBar

    DocBar Hall of Fame

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    This is why I'm not overly worried about our OL even though we lost the starting right side. The replacements know the system and the players know each other. I don't think the chemistry needed for a functional OL will be hard to come by. With better passpro from the RT spot, it could actually excel.
     
  7. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I don't think either position is any more important than the other. They've all got a job to do & they've got to do it well. Plus you have to have a RB who can read the blocks, make decisions, & make those cuts.

    I remember Wade Smith back in 2010. Man, he was awesome. He looked like Duane Brown in 2011. In the run game anyway. I don't know what he'd look like in pass protection, on the right side.... but I'd be interested to see how that would work.

    If we can get a right tackle that would own his side of the field like DBrown does.... damn!!!
     
  8. Carr Bombed

    Carr Bombed Hall of Fame

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    If we're strictly talking about the running game, then I think it is pretty clear which area is more important (which is the reason why people made such a big deal over Wade's slide in performance last season.) This is clearly a insde out ran team, which is why it was pramont that we got Myers back and we did. The next must signing is Brown, but that has little to do with run blocking.
     


  9. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    Wade played like ass in 2011 & Brisiel is easily replaceable. Ben Tate damn near ran for 1,000 yards & Arian would have had 1,700 had it not been for his hammy....

    CM had to be resigned, because he's the QB or the line, he's the shot-caller; that's why we had to have him back.

    But in our scheme, the guys on the inside double team the guy in front of them 8 out of 10 times. The guards usually start & end a run play on the LOS. Chris Myers is usually going up field, to clean out the second level. The tackles have to stretch the field, vertically as well as horizontally.
     
  10. Rey

    Rey Guest

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    The guards and center definitely have more responsibility in the run game. It's not even a question. That's just a fact.

    In the passing game the tackles have more responsibility. That's not even a question either.

    No I'm not saying tackles aren't important in the running game and vice versa for guards. What I said us what I meant.
     
  11. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I'm just not seeing it. We talk about our tackles in our run game much more than our guards. Both Duane Brown & Eric Winston are more responsible for our excellent run game over the last two years than our guards.
     
  12. Rey

    Rey Guest

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    Run blocking is not as demanding for tackles and pass blocking isn't as demanding for guards.

    And it's that way for several reasons.

    De's usually are easier to move than dt's. And the same thing that makes then easier to move makes then harder to block when passing Tackles dont have to block lb's as often as guards and centers.

    I see you said double team up above, but guards and centers ate double teaming. One guy usually makes the initial contact and the other one takes the guy over while the first guy goes up to the next level. If the d lineman slants hard towards the play the first guy will stay with the down lineman and the second gut will go up to the next level. But the steps remain the same.

    People normally focus on the blocking on the frontside of a play, but the backside blocking is what allows for the big runs. Tackles really don't work as hard because often times the backside de is wither left completely alone or is minimally blocked. Whereas the backside guard better get the backside lb to cut off pursuit.

    Basically the guards and center are generally responsible the meat of the run stoppers which I'd the mike, play side dt and backside lb.

    Now I'm just speaking on a regular stretch zone or off tackle zone play which is a majority of what the texans run.

    The edge players aren't generally known to be run stoppers, they are known as pass rushers. Interior guys are known as your run stoppers.

    Maybe Winston looked so good against the run compared to the guards because his job was a little easier. I'm not saying Winston wasn't good at his job, I'm just saying when running the ball his job wasn't generally as hard as the interior line.
     
  13. 76Texan

    76Texan Hall of Fame

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    When Sherman was here, he mixed in the gap scheme to complement the ZBS.


    Then Gibbs came and he wanted the Olinemen to get the ZBS down to heart so we scratched the gap scheme.
    We ran more inside zone (tight zone) plays, probably because Gibbs wanted the RBs to go downhill quickly.


    Then with Dennison, we mixed in the gap scheme again; we have the guards and tackles pull and counter runs.

    As we ran more outside zone (wide zone) plays last year, the tackles were more important. However, when we stretch the field horizontally, the RB is supposed to find the most open seam, and it could be inside the guard, depending on how the D run their scheme.

    Everybody on the line need to do their job, because we can always use the cut back lane on the back side when the defense is determined to cut off the front side. We really can't say which lineman is more important, I don't think.
     
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  14. kiwitexansfan

    kiwitexansfan Site Contributor

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    The run game is one thing, when we pass block like all teams T are taking on the best pass rushers generally so that is why they get the big $ right?
     
  15. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

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    The most talented and challenging pass-rushers are still playing off of the edge which means it's the tackles and not the interior linemen who are the ones who draw the assignment to defend and protect the QB against them.
     
  16. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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  17. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    Unless they stunt.. or you've got guys like Antonio Smith & JJ Watt tearing up the interior.
     
  18. JamesBill

    JamesBill Veteran

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    I was thinking about this when we lost brisiel. I really wish we could have kept him because when they do rotations or pick up double teams, the inside position has much more of a mental challenge than the tackles. The guy on the end can just react and like I said before is only dealing with one guy much more often. Those pancakes by Winston look awesome but mentally they aren't tough.
     
  19. BigBull17

    BigBull17 Hall of Fame

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    The idea of any linemen being the "most important" is a phallacy. Left tackles are important, but if you have the best LT in the world and the rest is substandard you are gonna be in for a hurting. That's why our line works so well, as it was 5 guys that were good with no weak link.
     
  20. Texans_Chick

    Texans_Chick Utopian Dreamer

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    As a side issue, one of the things that shocked the incoming staff when the first got to the Texans was how hodge podge the line was. The current staff has very specific views on what they want their center, guards and tackles to be able to do. They thought that the previous Texans folks just acquired whatever guys were offensive linemen and just sort of randomly stuck them in spaces based on what they needed. That makes sense given some of the linemen they had assembled in the 2005 season and which positions they were asked to play.

    FWIW.
     
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