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Why some people don't like Kevin Walter

K

KJ3

Guest
because everyone has already forgotten how well he played on sunday. he finished with a career-high and game-high 12 catches for 160 yards (13.3 avg.).

just giving the due recognition.
 
I don't know why you would think people don't like KW...I can't think of anyone slamming him or being negative about him since he has started to actually produce something. He's kinda of a cross between Tim Smith (ex-Oiler) and Joe Jurevicius...he really hasn't done much till the last few games.
 
Being impressed with AD or JJ doesn't necessarilly mean not liking Walter. Besides, I'm sure this last game has a lot of people changing their minds. I'm kind of on the fence right now, which is much better for Walter than what I thought a week ago.
 
KJ3 said:
vinny-seems to me that a lot of people still don't see him as a viable #2 across from aj. especially while andre davis was making a couple catches people wanted him at the 3 and davis at 2. i was never sold on davis (and that was before the endzone fumble and getting manhandled/letting the ball go) but i just felt like walter deserved some mention on here because he had a terrific game.
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he's had what...one big game? Gaffney had a double digit catch game when AJ was out with Carr...we all know he was cut by two teams shortly afterwards. Patience....time will tell.
 
I think AD and KW are two different types. AD is the speed burst smaller guy, while Kevin is a better blocking, more physical receiver (I could be totally wrong, but that's my mental impression).
 
Yankee_In_TX said:
I think AD and KW are two different types. AD is the speed burst smaller guy, while Kevin is a better blocking, more physical receiver (I could be totally wrong, but that's my mental impression).
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That's an accurate description of each. Which begs the question, why use KW instead of AD in the reverse play that took all afternoon th develope with the plodding KW ? And whoever you use Kubiak, please don't have Schaub out there running interference. Dang kubiak !
 
nunusguy said:
That's an accurate description of each. Which begs the question, why use KW instead of AD in the reverse play that took all afternoon th develope with the plodding KW ? And whoever you use Kubiak, please don't have Schaub out there running interference. Dang kubiak !
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That play was run with KW (I admit going what during the play) to set up a different play later in the game with the same formation and personnel--a pass that ended up with a pretty long gain I believe.
 
KJ3, to answer your question as to "why some people don't like Kevin Walter" is because he's a possession receiver. A possession receiver at the #2, no matter who it is, is just too vanilla for the great unwashed.

They want someone who has the speed to take it to the house, if he should happen to beat his man deep. They don't see that in Walter, and that's all they care about. Walter just ain't 'sexy' enough.
 
Marcus said:
KJ3, to answer your question as to "why some people don't like Kevin Walter" is because he's a possession receiver. A possession receiver at the #2, no matter who it is, is just too vanilla for the great unwashed.

They want someone who has the speed to take it to the house, if he should happen to beat his man deep. They don't see that in Walter, and that's all they care about. Walter just ain't 'sexy' enough.
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And the funny thing is he catches balls deep with receptions this year of 39, 35 and 46 yds already.
 
infantrycak said:
And the funny thing is he catches balls deep with receptions this year of 39, 35 and 46 yds already.
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Catching a deep ball and taking it to the house are two different things. No doubt Walter will catch it, he will however get caught shortly there after.
 
PapaL said:
Catching a deep ball and taking it to the house are two different things. No doubt Walter will catch it, he will however get caught shortly there after.
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Slightly better ball placement would have resulted in a couple of those and some missed balls being TD's. Yes there is a difference, but he has more quicks than people give him credit for as well--avoiding one tackle is often more important that far down field than top end speed.
 
props to you KJ3, Walter's showing why Kubes was so high on him in the 1st place. I remember in previous threads folks were wondering why he wasn't doing more & he should be demoted to 3rd string b/c of it.

Dude has no problem getting open, no problem catching the ball. As far as i'm concerned, he's perfect as a possession WR. Schaub has just missed him 2 the tune of at least 3 TD's this season. It's probably the speed differential between him & the other WR's, but shcaub has to get better at that.
 
While AJ is certainly our offensive playmaker, Schaub has done a great job with the remaining WRs. I've always hoped that KW would step up as a possession receiver, as I know the Bengals wanted to keep him when we signed him as an RFA. While a lot of folks have lobbied to have JJ at #2, I don't think Kevin is going to give up his spot without a fight.

QB/WRs has been one of the few bright spots this season, along with Kris Brown's leg.
 
Mr teX said:
Dude has no problem getting open, no problem catching the ball. As far as i'm concerned, he's perfect as a possession WR. Schaub has just missed him 2 the tune of at least 3 TD's this season. It's probably the speed differential between him & the other WR's, but shcaub has to get better at that.
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I think his speed is the perception problem. He is a decent receiver, if he was faster (quicker?), he would be a real threat.
 
KJ3 said:
i've seen it on more than one occassion schaub gets excited and throws a lob pass that makes you go...huh??!!

and then it lands like 10 ft in front of walter. i think for those instances schaub just needs to take a deep breath (figuratively) before he throws so he doesn't throw up anymore "giddyballs"...
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QB's misfire. I saw the great Tom Brady make a couple of awful throws last week too...it happens. Right now nobody but Schaub is really producing...his mistakes are magnified since he has to carry the team. Schaub is throwing for nearly 70% and he misses a few tosses that were important...but looking at his body of work makes me think it is an aberration.
 
Vinny said:
QB's misfire. I saw the great Tom Brady make a couple of awful throws last week too...it happens. Right now nobody but Schaub is really producing...his mistakes are magnified since he has to carry the team. Schaub is throwing for nearly 70% and he misses a few tosses that were important...but looking at his body of work makes me think it is an aberration.
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Exactly--this micro-examination of Schaub after each game is like a 180 degree reversal from past years. Now instead of expectations being too low they are ridiculously high with the QB expected to be darn near perfect. Manning, Brady and every other QB make poor throws and less than ideal placement throws every week.
 
I think why people complained about Walter in the past is because he hadn't shown anything. Before the season, Kubiak stated Walter was going in as our #2 WR when he had done nothing in previous years to show that he could handle the task. Obviously, things have changed now and I'm not sure of anyone who dislikes Walter right now.
 
It shows that Kubiak really does know what he's doing. His mistake was not playing him earlier, like he admitted.
 
I just wanted to congratulate everyone in the thread who correctly spelled "Walter" rather than "Walters". It is a TexansTalk record and you all should be proud.

"Everyone" liked Davis more than Walter because Andre had made some plays downfield in the Colts and Falcons games. Now, Davis fumbles out of the end zone, Walter has a breakout game, and "Everyone" like Walter more. After Jacoby takes a skinny post to the house against the Titans, "Everyone" will want Jones to become the #2 WR. "Everyone" is known for asking the question, "What have you done for me lately?"

Hervoyel said:
They taste of chicken!
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That you made me laugh at that is so wrong.
 
Vinny said:
its called an analogy...try one sometimes...they are tasty.
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That's a repper if I have ever saw one.

I think 'ol KW has really stepped up to help out with AJ's absence.
But opinions are like a-holes...and mine has sat too long today already.:shades:
 
Vinny said:
QB's misfire. I saw the great Tom Brady make a couple of awful throws last week too...it happens. Right now nobody but Schaub is really producing...his mistakes are magnified since he has to carry the team. Schaub is throwing for nearly 70% and he misses a few tosses that were important...but looking at his body of work makes me think it is an aberration.
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Yeah, hes in the range of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, with AJ and JJ out and no running game. Hes carrying this team right now.
 
Schaub is undoubtedly carrying this team right now and if our defense was playing lights out like the jaguar's, the titan's, or the bucc's than we'd all forget about his misfires and be talking about how he's a natural born winner. My main problems with Schaub's game at this point is he seems to miss throws in the red zone, sometimes wide open (by NFL standards) receivers, and that although he obviously has a good amount of pocket presence he's putting too many balls on the ground. Getting caught from behind and fumbling can happen to the best QB's, but regardless, it's happening too much right now with him and he's got to get that fixed.
 
Fox said:
Schaub is undoubtedly carrying this team right now and if our defense was playing lights out like the jaguar's, the titan's, or the bucc's than we'd all forget about his misfires and be talking about how he's a natural born winner.
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The defense didn't play that badly on Sunday for 3 quarters, except for the Jags busting a couple long running plays. They got a couple turnovers for the offense, but the O just couldn't convert for TDs. But I suppose they did let up eventually after watching the offense fall flat on its face so many times.
 
nunusguy said:
The defense didn't play that badly on Sunday for 3 quarters, except for the Jags busting a couple long running plays. They got a couple turnovers for the offense, but the O just couldn't convert for TDs. But I suppose they did let up eventually after watching the offense fall flat on its face so many times.
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They didn't play badly when Reggie Williams fumbled the ball. How many times did they force Jax to punt again? They didn't give up many home runs until the fourth, but they did give up 7-8 minute drives for TD's and most teams will take that any day..

To the poster about Schaub's fumbling issue, as I said above it happens to the best of them, but it's happening too often with Schaub right now. He's fumbled four times in the past three games, he needs to be more aware of where the rush is coming from and that he needs to get rid of the ball.
 
dtran04 said:
It shows that Kubiak really does know what he's doing.
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At best 50/50 on number two receivers right now - Moulds/Walter.

50/50 - Bradford's nickname. 50/50 shot of catching a ball that hit him in the hands.........
 
Lucky said:
I just wanted to congratulate everyone in the thread who correctly spelled "Walter" rather than "Walters". It is a TexansTalk record and you all should be proud.
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It's been driving me crazy the extra "s". I've taken to calling him Kevins Walter.

p.s. I've coined a new nick name for mister Daniels as well....

"OPEN Daniels"
 
KJ3 said:
how can you ask him to do something that people can't do? people can't see behind them. that's physics. it's a weird coincidence that people keep hitting him as he pulls the ball up to throw, it sucks and i wish it would quit happening, but i don't think he could have much better pocket presence than he does right now...you're being pretty picky with your observations man...
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He isn't always getting hit as he pulls up to throw, against Jax he was rolling out trying to make a play and Spicer ran him down before he'd even begun the throwing motion. I'd be pretty surprised if after 8 games as a starter Schaub couldn't make any improvements in his pocket presence, do you think he's already achieved his maximum potential?
 
Fox said:
I'd be pretty surprised if after 8 games as a starter Schaub couldn't make any improvements in his pocket presence, do you think he's already achieved his maximum potential?
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We just went from one of the most awful QB's in the NFL with the least amount of pocket presence to a guy who is probably top 5 when it comes to getting that ball out of his hands...you guys really are nitpicking this way too much. Schaub really avoided several sacks Sunday and gets that ball out in a hurry...you just aren't going to be able to look good 100% of the time if your team can't run the ball. The Titans have nothing but praise for his pocket awareness.
 
KJ3 said:
yea, i remember that. he was running away from spicer even though spicer was in an area that he couldn't see. pretty unreal how much pocket presence schaub has, and if this is the maximum i think we're all fine with it because it's some of the best in the league. spicer is just faster, what is he supposed to do? steriods? to run faster?!

NEXT
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Ha, he's achieved his potential in 8 games, brilliant. You don't have to look at every defender to be aware of them. Four fumbles in three games is too many, plain and simple, if our protection is sub par Schaub needs to work on being more aware of the situation and balancing holding onto the ball, trying to make a play, and getting rid of it. I like how he stands in the pocket and calmly rolls out to let plays develop, but it's also allowing defenders to get in and knock the ball out. Schaub and Kubiak need to work on it, it's not that difficult of a concept, we shouldn't be fumbling the ball from our QB 1+ times a game regardless.

This has nothing to do with Carr. I don't evaluate what I see on the field with Schaub by comparing it to Carr, I evaluate Schaub by his play. He has things he can work on, I don't think it's too nit picky to say that any player has areas of his game he can work on. I agree with you that the run game definitely has alot to do with it, it's allowing teams to pin back their ears and come after Schaub every down. Hopefully when we get the run going, this problem will get better, but until then I don't think Kubiak is going to use that as any excuse to turn over the ball.
 
Fox said:
Ha, he's achieved his potential in 8 games, brilliant. You don't have to look at every defender to be aware of them. Four fumbles in three games is too many, plain and simple, if our protection is sub par Schaub needs to work on being more aware of the situation and balancing holding onto the ball, trying to make a play, and getting rid of it. I like how he stands in the pocket and calmly rolls out to let plays develop, but it's also allowing defenders to get in and knock the ball out. Schaub and Kubiak need to work on it, it's not that difficult of a concept, we shouldn't be fumbling the ball from our QB 1+ times a game regardless.

This has nothing to do with Carr. I don't evaluate what I see on the field with Schaub by comparing it to Carr, I evaluate Schaub by his play. He has things he can work on, I don't think it's too nit picky to say that any player has areas of his game he can work on. I agree with you that the run game definitely has alot to do with it, it's allowing teams to pin back their ears and come after Schaub every down. Hopefully when we get the run going, this problem will get better, but until then I don't think Kubiak is going to use that as any excuse to turn over the ball.
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If your mother accidentally spills some juice on your rug are you going to fuss and complain, and ***** and moan ?




Sometimes it's good to appreciate the overall body of work and don't sweat the small stuff...

You're sweating the small stuff kido...relaxx.....:cowboy1:
 
real said:
If your mother accidentally spills some juice on your rug are you going to fuss and complain, and ***** and moan ?




Sometimes it's good to appreciate the overall body of work and don't sweat the small stuff...

You're sweating the small stuff kido...relaxx.....:cowboy1:
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I happen to think Schaub is a great QB and the answer for this team, I just think he can get better. But.... ok, I'll stop criticizing him, Schaub is god. Everything he does is fantastic. Where's the kool aid?
 
Fox said:
I happen to think Schaub is a great QB and the answer for this team, I just think he can get better. But.... ok, I'll stop criticizing him, Schaub is god. Everything he does is fantastic. Where's the kool aid?
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Let's say I criticize you because you only put one space between a period and the first letter of the next sentence. That would be really dumb, wouldn't it? (EDIT: Especially because it looks like the display is automatically killing the second space. :) )

Schaub is not God. Schaub makes plenty of mistakes. There are lots of things that you can criticize him for... pocket presence isn't really one of those things. You could say that he underthrows some deep balls. That he isn't as accurate on the deep balls as he could be. That sometimes he seems to throw off his back foot and from odd angles. That he's been able to move the ball between the 20's but he hasn't been able to put the ball in the end zone. That he makes a couple of bonehead plays every game.

But pocket presence? I don't see his pocket presence as anything close to being a problem. I'm not even going to get onto him for ball security in that instance because I think he was about the pull the ball back to throw it. I have a problem with ball security when a QB is running around with the ball in one hand when they're NOT going to throw, but if they're about to throw and they get hit, the ball has to be in one hand so I'm not going to worry about that.
 
Fox said:
I happen to think Schaub is a great QB and the answer for this team, I just think he can get better. But.... ok, I'll stop criticizing him, Schaub is god. Everything he does is fantastic. Where's the kool aid?
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What you write does have a tone, and the tone of your writing is coming off as more bitchy-moany rather than constructive criticism...

We know that is something he needs to work on...We know that those are things he shouldn't have done...

It would be like constantly harping on your mother for spilling that juice on your rug...

Sometimes a simple "uuuggghhh" is enough....
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Let's say I criticize you because you only put one space between a period and the first letter of the next sentence. That would be really dumb, wouldn't it? (EDIT: Especially because it looks like the display is automatically killing the second space. :) )

Schaub is not God. Schaub makes plenty of mistakes. There are lots of things that you can criticize him for... pocket presence isn't really one of those things. You could say that he underthrows some deep balls. That he isn't as accurate on the deep balls as he could be. That sometimes he seems to throw off his back foot and from odd angles. That he's been able to move the ball between the 20's but he hasn't been able to put the ball in the end zone. That he makes a couple of bonehead plays every game.

But pocket presence? I don't see his pocket presence as anything close to being a problem. I'm not even going to get onto him for ball security in that instance because I think he was about the pull the ball back to throw it. I have a problem with ball security when a QB is running around with the ball in one hand when they're NOT going to throw, but if they're about to throw and they get hit, the ball has to be in one hand so I'm not going to worry about that.
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Fair enough, his red zone performance and fumbling were just the two issues that jumped to my mind. There are bigger issues as you pointed out to complain about. Turn over's just stick in my mind because they cause such drastic changes in momentum.
 
Vinny said:
We just went from one of the most awful QB's in the NFL with the least amount of pocket presence to a guy who is probably top 5 when it comes to getting that ball out of his hands...you guys really are nitpicking this way too much. Schaub really avoided several sacks Sunday and gets that ball out in a hurry...you just aren't going to be able to look good 100% of the time if your team can't run the ball. The Titans have nothing but praise for his pocket awareness.
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I can't add much to this or to what others said below

As far as Walters, I think with AJ not coming back anytime soon....well it looks like that could be the case...he could really be an every week 6-8 catch guy if he plays like last week and works the middle and the sidelines.
 
Fox said:
Fair enough, his red zone performance and fumbling were just the two issues that jumped to my mind. There are bigger issues as you pointed out to complain about. Turn over's just stick in my mind because they cause such drastic changes in momentum.
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That particular turnover was really painful but I consider it an example of the defense just making a good play. Last year, when DC fumbled and it was returned for a TD (against the Raiders and against the Titans), it was a different situation I think. He was just running with the ball in one hand in one situation and wasn't really looking to throw and he was hit and the ball came out. The other time, iirc, he was looking down the field with the ball in one hand and it got stripped out. Those are examples of bad, bad fumbles.

I'm more concerned with Andre Davis' fumble. If he had the ball secure OR he was actively reaching it out across the goal line, we have a TD there instead of them having the ball on the 20 and beginning the time killing drive that sucked the life out of us. Also, the ball getting away from Davis on that "interception" was very irritating. He's been playing really well and made some amazing plays but those two plays seem like a lack of concentration.
 
No doubt AD's fumble into the end zone was probably the most frustrating play of the day for me. Almost as frustrating as when Gaffney inexplicably fumbled the ball into the end zone without even having a defender touch him. I really don't like that rule, maybe it's sour grapes but I would like the offense to retain the ball, lose the down, and get the ball on the 5 or something rather than give it away. Fumbles in the red zone can be, in effect, a 14 point swing because you go from being potentially being 7 up to 7 behind if they capitalize on the turn over and score a TD, huge game changers.

Walter's been very steady and just what this offense needs with AJ down. I think his lack of speed is evident when he runs reverses, but he's got enough speed to get behind a defense and if Schaub puts more on some of those balls so Walter doesn't have to wait on them then he goes for TD's instead of 30 yards.
 
I love Schaub
I love Walter (though I wasn't very high on him after last year but that was with a total scrub throwing him the rock)
I hate haters
 
KJ3 said:
a'davis' fumble in the endzone might be something i never let go. maybe i will, but i doubt it...holding the ball out like that makes it so unsecured that i'm sure i could strip him, or my sister, or baby infant jesus could...that's just...dumb.

getting the ball manhandled out of your grasp doesn't sit well with me either, although i thought he was clearly down as he had possession, a knee down, and contact from a defender. but, twas an interception.
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He is a young player and he made a mistake, I bet he does not make it again though.
 
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