Who gets the start at QB after the bye?

[Scooter]

The next Jeff Garcia? Are you serious?

i dont know, garcia might be a good comparison, though case is infinitely more accurate. jeff at 25 years old, with proper coaching, in a tailor made system, and with today's weapons and rules might've been something special. as it was, he was a solid quarterback who took a declining 49'ers team as far as it would go and posted good QBR and TD/INT ratios on really bad teams. i think brees is another very similar player, though in more ideal situations.

to me case is exactly in that mold. the right combination of mobility outside of the pocket and especially inside, fantastic downfield touch, quick reads, just enough arm, and the guts and will power that makes a leader. kubiak would do well by going back in time to garcia, and sneaking looks into the saints' playbook. keenum can make serious moves with a somewhat "chaotic" gameplan - mixing in a ton of screens and draws, crossing routes, deep sideline and skinny posts, power runs, and rollouts. to make the most of a quarterback like keenum or garcia or brees, allow them to throw the kitchen sink at the defense. the disguise that we're familiar with from schaub isnt the correct approach with keenum IMO. he's much better off with a more diversified playbook.

 

[Vance87]

i dont know, garcia might be a good comparison, though case is infinitely more accurate. jeff at 25 years old, with proper coaching, in a tailor made system, and with today's weapons and rules might've been something special. as it was, he was a solid quarterback who took a declining 49'ers team as far as it would go and posted good QBR and TD/INT ratios on really bad teams. i think brees is another very similar player, though in more ideal situations.

to me case is exactly in that mold. the right combination of mobility outside of the pocket and especially inside, fantastic downfield touch, quick reads, just enough arm, and the guts and will power that makes a leader. kubiak would do well by going back in time to garcia, and sneaking looks into the saints' playbook. keenum can make serious moves with a somewhat "chaotic" gameplan - mixing in a ton of screens and draws, crossing routes, deep sideline and skinny posts, power runs, and rollouts. to make the most of a quarterback like keenum or garcia or brees, allow them to throw the kitchen sink at the defense. the disguise that we're familiar with from schaub isnt the correct approach with keenum IMO. he's much better off with a more diversified playbook.

Brees or Garcia. Wonder which one I'd rather have...

 

[76Texan]

How is jeff garcia in sf a put down? 2 time pro bowler on merit and took sf to the playoffs.

I didn't say anything about Garcia being a put down.

As far as arm strength is concerned, give me a good reason why I should trust your eyes over a speed gun.

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

I'm good with Keenum ball velocity at 55 mph.
Same as Russell Wilson;
One mile faster than EJ Manuel, the last first rounder.
One mile slower than Cam Newton, a previous number one overall pick.

 

[Scooter]

Brees or Garcia. Wonder which one I'd rather have...

in the same time and situations, they may have been the same player. garcia holds the 49ers record for yardage in a season and is second in touchdowns - without rice and taylor. he did this at 30+ years old. to a lot of people jeff garcia is the epitome of "what could've been".

that's leaving the conversation though. what's being said is like garcia, young, brees, elway, etc ... keenum looks exactly like what a walsh WCO quarterback should look like. he has the exact same skillset.

 

[Vance87]

in the same time and situations, they may have been the same player. garcia holds the 49ers record for yardage in a season and is second in touchdowns - without rice and taylor. he did this at 30+ years old. to a lot of people jeff garcia is the epitome of "what could've been".

I never watched Garcia play so I can't speak to that, only his statistics and resume. Brees is miles ahead of him in this category. I'd much rather have Case become a Brees type than a Garcia type, for obvious reasons

 

[leebigeztx]

I didn't say anything about Garcia being a put down.

As far as arm strength is concerned, give me a good reason why I should trust your eyes over a speed gun.

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

I'm good with Keenum ball velocity at 55 mph.
Same as Russell Wilson;
One mile faster than EJ Manuel, the last first rounder.
One mile slower than Cam Newton, a previous number one overall pick.

U don't have to believe my eyes ,use ur own. So tell me with a arm the same as wilson on the radar as you quoted he went undrafted because gms questioned his arm talent? No gm ever questioned wilson,cam,or manuels arm talent.

 

[thunderkyss]

U don't have to believe my eyes ,use ur own. So tell me with a arm the same as wilson on the radar as you quoted he went undrafted because gms questioned his arm talent? No gm ever questioned wilson,cam,or manuels arm talent.

I bet if Kolb wasn't such a colossal failure Keenum would have been drafted.

Had Kolb remained the starter in Philly & took that team into the play-offs, I bet Keenum would have been drafted on day 1.

 

[leebigeztx]

I bet if Kolb wasn't such a colossal failure Keenum would have been drafted.

Had Kolb remained the starter in Philly & took that team into the play-offs, I bet Keenum would have been drafted on day 1.

So why did shannahan give up 2 #1s and a 2nd for rg3? Lienhart was a bum and 3yrs later jets moved up to get sanchez.

 

[Vance87]

U don't have to believe my eyes ,use ur own. So tell me with a arm the same as wilson on the radar as you quoted he went undrafted because gms questioned his arm talent? No gm ever questioned wilson,cam,or manuels arm talent.

He can throw 50 yards into the wind, and he has the same velocity as Cam Newton and Joe Flacco, what more do you want?

 

[leebigeztx]

He can throw 50 yards into the wind, and he has the same velocity as Cam Newton and Joe Flacco, what more do you want?

Are u being serious or are u playing?

 

[TexansSeminole]

U don't have to believe my eyes ,use ur own. So tell me with a arm the same as wilson on the radar as you quoted he went undrafted because gms questioned his arm talent? No gm ever questioned wilson,cam,or manuels arm talent.

I'd be surprised if GMs were more worried about his arm than other factors. Keenum throws a nice ball.

 

[Scooter]

U don't have to believe my eyes ,use ur own. So tell me with a arm the same as wilson on the radar as you quoted he went undrafted because gms questioned his arm talent? No gm ever questioned wilson,cam,or manuels arm talent.

there are several reasons he went undrafted - "your eyes" being one of them. if you see a floater for 30 yards and a 10 yard out that doesnt have much zip, that is the definition. if someone else sees the same thing it becomes popular opinion and spreads like wildfire. a 60 yard strike followed by a 20 yard laser dont register because the conclusion is already reached. your eyes saw what scouts did - he didnt have enough arm despite having more than enough arm.

another is school history - from andre ware to kevin kolb. a UofH product isnt going to produce next level. another is the offense. a spread record breaker isnt going to make it because the hawaii and texas tech record breakers arent NFL caliber quarterbacks. another is his size. teams want a 6'5" 240lb prototype. another is his age. he was 2 years too old coming out of college. another is the system didnt have him pro ready and there wasnt an answer to whether he could adjust to being under the center.

there are many factors going into his not being drafted. do any of those speak to the quarterback he is or could become? i think not, but then again i'm not being paid to see these things.

 

[TexansSeminole]

I'd be surprised if GMs were more worried about his arm than other factors. Keenum throws a nice ball.

I was wrong. Just looked up some scouting reports and it appears that arm-strength and a lack of pocket presence were his two biggest knocks.

 

[Rey]

Andrew luck scouting report: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012aluck.php

 

[Scooter]

Andrew luck scouting report: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012aluck.php

arm strength has to be the single worst critique of a quarterback. i'd take a healthy chad pennington over most of the quarterbacks playing today. either you can make throws or you cant, having a jamarcus russel or david carr cannon doesnt mean squat.

 

[paycheck71]

I didn't say anything about Garcia being a put down.

As far as arm strength is concerned, give me a good reason why I should trust your eyes over a speed gun.

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2013/03/27/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

I'm good with Keenum ball velocity at 55 mph.
Same as Russell Wilson;
One mile faster than EJ Manuel, the last first rounder.
One mile slower than Cam Newton, a previous number one overall pick.

From that link:

Joe Flacco, Delaware 55

Isn't Flacco considered to have maybe the best arm in the league? Either this study is off, we're taking it out of context, of people don't know what they're talking about. Why would there ever be any doubt in Keenum's arm strength if these numbers are freely available?

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Keenum's list of converts grows

By John McClain

October 30, 2013

For the last two seasons, I've been besieged with emails from University of Houston fans extolling the talent and character of Texans quarterback Case Keenum.

There was no questioning Keenum's character, not after the fortitude he showed during six years at UH. He spent more time on campus than some professors.

I have to admit I didn't believe those loyal Cougars fans who never wavered in their conviction Keenum could succeed in the NFL. Every team bypassed him in every round of the draft. How could they all be so wrong so many times?

Keenum spent his rookie season on the practice squad. He was inactive behind Matt Schaub and T.J. Yates for the first six games this year.

Coach Gary Kubiak, offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and quarterbacks coach Karl Dorrell have a combined 57 years of NFL experience, but it wasn't until Oct. 20 they finally unleashed Keenum at Kansas City.

Great story in the offing

Now, though, after watching Keenum throw for 271 yards and a touchdown without an interception in a 17-16 loss to the unbeaten Chiefs and examining so many I-told-you-so comments from those same UH fans, I'm a believer. I think.

Keenum has a long way to go before he proves he can be successful on a consistent basis, but he's off to a good start. We're going to find out a lot more about his legitimacy in Sunday night's nationally televised game against Indianapolis at Reliant Stadium.

Keenum was impressive at Arrowhead Stadium with one week to practice. Now he's getting two weeks to prepare for the Colts.

His teammates like what they've seen.

"He's a natural-born leader," left tackle Duane Brown said. "Some guys just have that aura about them, that swagger. They rally guys together. People just naturally have a certain level of respect for them.

"He works hard. He's very vocal. He tries to get the energy level up in practice. That's good to see. I'm excited (to see) what he can do for us."

Will a star be born on NBC, or will the Texans suffer a sixth consecutive defeat and join Atlanta as the biggest disappointments of the NFL season?

If the Texans can upset the first-place Colts - and that's a big if considering what a disaster they've been - they have a chance to get on a roll. None of the next three opponents - Arizona, Oakland and Jacksonville - has a winning record.

Imagine what a terrific story it would be if Keenum ignites the Texans to a 6-5 record when New England visits Reliant Stadium.

We're getting ahead of ourselves, of course.

It would be helpful if Keenum had running backs Arian Foster and Ben Tate healthy. It would help if tight end Owen Daniels were ready to go and not stuck on injured reserve. And it would help if inside linebacker Brian Cushing and strong safety Danieal Manning weren't on injured reserve, too.

But the absence of the injured players makes the Keenum situation even more intriguing. He doesn't have healthy running backs or the Pro Bowl tight end. And the defense is short-handed without Cushing and Manning.

No. 1 pick a QB?

The coaches have high expectations for Keenum or he wouldn't be starting.

"I want to see him move forward," Kubiak said. "He's got to improve. Our team's got to improve around him."

Unless Keenum is injured or plays so poorly Kubiak has no other choice than to bench him, expect Keenum to start the rest of the season. The Texans must find out if he can be their quarterback or if they'll have to use their first-round pick on a prospect.

THE REST OF THE STORY

 

[eriadoc]

In response to the "Keenum went undrafted for a reason" argument - that's true. The reason is a lot simpler than y'all mental contortionists would like to admit. The reason is stunningly simple - you were WRONG.

 

[dalemurphy]

Published scouting reports are humorous. They are often filled with miscalculations and thrown together without much thought. In that business, respect is essential. So, those publications tend to organize their analysis to fit in with conventional wisdom instead of actually representing an isolated perspective on a player.

Clearly, though, more than just the publications were turned off by Keenum. The question is "why" and are the issues legitimate and unsurmountable.

I think his size is what most likely dismissed him in the eyes of the NFL scouts... coming in below that minimum bar of 6 ft. 2 inches, without any eye-catching skills to supplement the lack of heighth was probably a deal-breaker.

I have no idea if he will become a good NFL QB. I hope so. What seemed clear is that he did not lack necessary arm strength, accuracy, or have any mechanical issues with his delivery. I also did not see his heighth as an issue.

Here is my biggest concern: his ability to throw in the pocket, from under center... He has to overcome footwork issues from a lack of experience under center and teams scheming for him and preparing to clutter the middle throwing lanes with bodies and arms... will he be able to see and also get passes away without being knocked down? I think that will be the biggest physical test.

 

[Vance87]

Are u being serious or are u playing?

What about that makes you think I'm playing?

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Keenum holds the highest QB rating at Arrowhead this season.

 

[Thorn]

Keenum holds the highest QB rating at Arrowhead this season.

Keenum is the best QB on the Texans right now. When you consider Schaub and Yates though, that's not exactly high praise. But until he proves it to me otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that Keenum is the future of the Texans.

 

[Rey]

NFL has keenum at 6'1".

 

[speedfreek]

Joe Montana
official height: 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m)
official weight: 205 lb.

Case Keenum
official height: 6 ft 1 in (1.85 m)
official weight: 205 lb.

I doubt 3 hundredths of a meter will completely make or
break a quarterback's career.

And just for you guys jonesing for him:

Johnny Manziel (from draft scout)
official height: 5 ft 11.5 in
official weight: 210 lb.

One should never make more out of the numbers than
what they really are..

TJ

 

[cuppacoffee]

Published scouting reports are humorous. They are often filled with miscalculations and thrown together without much thought. In that business, respect is essential. So, those publications tend to organize their analysis to fit in with conventional wisdom instead of actually representing an isolated perspective on a player.

Clearly, though, more than just the publications were turned off by Keenum. The question is "why" and are the issues legitimate and unsurmountable.

I think his size is what most likely dismissed him in the eyes of the NFL scouts... coming in below that minimum bar of 6 ft. 2 inches, without any eye-catching skills to supplement the lack of heighth was probably a deal-breaker.

I have no idea if he will become a good NFL QB. I hope so. What seemed clear is that he did not lack necessary arm strength, accuracy, or have any mechanical issues with his delivery. I also did not see his heighth as an issue.

Here is my biggest concern: his ability to throw in the pocket, from under center...

He has to overcome footwork issues from a lack of experience under center and teams scheming for him and preparing to clutter the middle throwing lanes with bodies and arms... will he be able to see and also get passes away without being knocked down? I think that will be the biggest physical test.

I think that sums it up nicely.

Throwing on the move should be his strong suit, teams will scheme to minimize that.

 

[thunderkyss]

So why did shannahan give up 2 #1s and a 2nd for rg3? Lienhart was a bum and 3yrs later jets moved up to get sanchez.

RG3 didn't excel in Conference USA.

Lienart appeared to be on track in 2008.

Kolb was meh..... in 2011.

However, if you don't think Keenum's draft status was related to Kolb's performance, what's your theory? He's as tall as Wilson & Kaepernick, so it couldn't have been his height.

 

[leebigeztx]

THE REST OF THE STORY

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-26/case-keenum-disappoints-in-throwing-drills

Not the end all be all.

 

[thunderkyss]

there are several reasons he went undrafted -

his age. he was 2 years too old coming out of college.

I do believe it's as you stated, several reasons stacked against him. However, this one may end up working in our favor. Being a little more mature than you're average kid straight out of college... hopefully he'll improve by leaps & bounds as he sees NFL defenses in games that count.

 

[Vance87]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-26/case-keenum-disappoints-in-throwing-drills

Not the end all be all.

Neither is that.

For the 24-year-old, Monday was about showcasing his true abilities after being hampered by a hamstring injury at the NFL scouting combine in February. The Abilene native revealed that he strained his right hamstring running his second 40-yard dash at the combine and that it affected his throwing during drills. On Monday, there were no ill effects from the injury, as Keenum whizzed pass after pass to receivers on a variety of patterns, showed capable arm strength and displayed his athleticism with a 4.31-second time in the 20-yard shuttle and 6.89 seconds in the three-cone drill.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75061&draftyear=2012&genpos=QB

 

[eriadoc]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-26/case-keenum-disappoints-in-throwing-drills

Not the end all be all.

If NFL teams based their evaluation of his arm strength on an injured performance, then they're as stupid as anyone who believes he doesn't have NFL caliber arm strength. And that is the reason he wasn't drafted. People are stupid when it comes to groupthink situations. They just parrot what the other guy said. The Texans were at least smart enough to take a look at him once he healed up and decided he was worth taking a flier on.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Neither is that.



http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75061&draftyear=2012&genpos=QB

It's amazing how a right-handed QB's throwing can be affected by a right lower limb plant side problem.................just amazing............

 

[dalemurphy]

If NFL teams based their evaluation of his arm strength on an injured performance, then they're as stupid as anyone who believes he doesn't have NFL caliber arm strength. And that is the reason he wasn't drafted. People are stupid when it comes to groupthink situations. They just parrot what the other guy said. The Texans were at least smart enough to take a look at him once he healed up and decided he was worth taking a flier on.

Part of it is simply the human condition. I don't think it is possible for people, even for their own self-interest, to avoid developing bias. I see sentiment and attitudes develop out of a mob mentality in the NFL all the time.

One example that comes to mind is the prejudice related to size of running backs. I have heard, since the late 1980s, RBs get devalued coming out of college because they are too small. Even after the years of success of guys like Emmett Smith, I remember MJD falling into the 2nd round because of "size' questions. Really? Did anyone bother to look at him? How can pro scouts in the modern era believe that a RB who is 6'2" and 240 lbs will be more durable than a RB who is 5'6" and 215 lbs? Yet, that has been the attitude for many years and caused a lot of NFL teams to make big draft day mistakes.

Certain schemes fall in and out of favor all the time- for offense and defense, etc...

Usually, the great organizations and coaches are defined by their ability to break outside of the mob mentality and risk doing things a different way, or evaluating players differently.

Still, though, it is hard to sit on the outside and conclude scouts of all 32 teams were so wrong when they have so much more information than we do... Yet, those examples exist throughout the NFL. I hope Case is one.

 

[drs23]

If NFL teams based their evaluation of his arm strength on an injured performance, then they're as stupid as anyone who believes he doesn't have NFL caliber arm strength. And that is the reason he wasn't drafted. People are stupid when it comes to groupthink situations. They just parrot what the other guy said. The Texans were at least smart enough to take a look at him once he healed up and decided he was worth taking a flier on.

Naaaa, the coaches and management folks are too stupid and clueless for that. It was strictly a PR move, just like letting him start.

 

[paycheck71]

Part of it is simply the human condition. I don't think it is possible for people, even for their own self-interest, to avoid developing bias. I see sentiment and attitudes develop out of a mob mentality in the NFL all the time.

One example that comes to mind is the prejudice related to size of running backs. I have heard, since the late 1980s, RBs get devalued coming out of college because they are too small. Even after the years of success of guys like Emmett Smith, I remember MJD falling into the 2nd round because of "size' questions. Really? Did anyone bother to look at him? How can pro scouts in the modern era believe that a RB who is 6'2" and 240 lbs will be more durable than a RB who is 5'6" and 215 lbs? Yet, that has been the attitude for many years and caused a lot of NFL teams to make big draft day mistakes.

Certain schemes fall in and out of favor all the time- for offense and defense, etc...

Usually, the great organizations and coaches are defined by their ability to break outside of the mob mentality and risk doing things a different way, or evaluating players differently.

Still, though, it is hard to sit on the outside and conclude scouts of all 32 teams were so wrong when they have so much more information than we do... Yet, those examples exist throughout the NFL. I hope Case is one.

This is true, but I think there is another variable in play when it comes to players slipping. Let's say there is a team that values a player as having a 1st round talent. Let's say the consensus on the player is that he's a 3rd rounder due to whatever arbitrary characteristics are put onto the position he plays as being required (size, speed, arm, vertical, etc. etc. etc). If the team that values the player knows (within a reasonable margin of error) that no one will take this guy until the 3rd round, it makes no sense for them to take him in the 1st, but they might take him with a late 2nd pick.

And when that happens a lot of people like us a boards like this one will complain about how they reached and how they could have had this guy probably in the 4th round.

 

[legacy_gt]

at the end of the day, the draft worked out for the Texans. we have case and he's up for another big test sunday. a lot of fans in Houston are hopeful about this team and its future regardless of the injuries because of case.

I've watched case since his freshman year and he just gets better with age. There's a reason why Kubiak is risking putting it all on a young QB when his million dollar starter can play and will be sitting on the bench.

you're going to see some slinging on sunday night. book it.

 

[Vance87]

at the end of the day, the draft worked out for the Texans. we have case and he's up for another big test sunday. a lot of fans in Houston are hopeful about this team and its future regardless of the injuries because of case.

I've watched case since his freshman year and he just gets better with age. There's a reason why Kubiak is risking putting it all on a young QB when his million dollar starter can play and will be sitting on the bench.

you're going to see some slinging on sunday night. book it.

I have no doubt we'll see Case sling it...I just hope he slings it to the guys in red...

 

[leebigeztx]

Dalemurphy, I agree players are mis judged,but how does a qb go undrafted? I mean they said ryan fitzpatrick had one of the best chalkboard sessions ever. He stuck around,got his chance under gailey,played well early and turned it into a big payday. Then teams found out he couldn't push the ball to certain quads of the field. He's still getting a great. Nfl check as a backup,but he was undrafted For a reason also. Could case be like this? Could. Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes. Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!

 

[thunderkyss]

There's a reason why Kubiak is risking putting it all on a young QB when his million dollar starter can play and will be sitting on the bench.

Uh yeah.... the starter sux

 

[thunderkyss]

Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes.

I'm sure Kubiak has made up his mind & Keenum is the starter barring injury. Then Schaub will get an opportunity to redeem himself. But Kubiak is pretty good at making ho-hum QBs look good. If Case can be average (Schaub) Kubiak will make him look elite.

Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!

I'm hoping the team did lay down on/because of Schaub. If this team plays the way they should, Keenum will be fine, better than fine. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB in the first, but I want a guy with lots of promise.... Cutler or Freemanish. I'd even be willing to take a look at Ponder if he happens to hit the market.

Then We can use our 1st on the OL someone to take LG or RT.

Or even an ILB, a cheap understudy for Cushing.

 

[drs23]

Uh yeah.... the starter sux

And you don't even like him, never have.

:potstir:

 

[thunderkyss]

And you don't even like him, never have.

To be clear, no I've never been a Matt Schaub fan, but I was fairly certain we could win a Super Bowl with Matt Schaub. While most of this fan base would prefer we tossed a perfectly good Matt Schaub (past tense) out for whatever, and cycle QBs through Houston until we find a franchise guy, it made more sense to me to put a team around him that can win a Championship.

No different than what Atlanta did, no different than what San Francisco did with Alex Smith, & what Baltimore did around Flacco. None of those QBs, in my mind, are any better than the Matt Schaub we saw coming in to 2013. His biggest problem was that he hadn't located his clutch gene.

Neither Baltimore or Atlanta is making plans to replace their QB. & Flacco isn't any younger than Schaub, than Schaub is younger than Brady or Manning. The only reason SF had a QB waiting in the wings is because they had a new coach coming in.

& there futures are tied to their $100M QBs.

Now... with whatever is going on in his head, he can't be trusted. We've got two viable options (again, in my mind) that can.

I still do not have a problem with the contract they signed. He's got a $7M salary this year, a $10M cap hit.... There's nothing wrong paying that for a starting QB of a good Matt Schaub's ability. Then we're not stuck with him beyond this season. It might hurt a little, but we've got more cap space without him than whit him going forward.

But yes, before this year I wouldn't have said that Matt Schaub sux. He just wasn't as good as we wanted him to be.

 

[Carr Bombed]

I'm sure Kubiak has made up his mind & Keenum is the starter barring injury. Then Schaub will get an opportunity to redeem himself. But Kubiak is pretty good at making ho-hum QBs look good. If Case can be average (Schaub) Kubiak will make him look elite.




I'm hoping the team did lay down on/because of Schaub. If this team plays the way they should, Keenum will be fine, better than fine. I'm not opposed to drafting a QB in the first, but I want a guy with lots of promise.... Cutler or Freemanish. I'd even be willing to take a look at Ponder if he happens to hit the market.

Then We can use our 1st on the OL someone to take LG or RT.

Or even an ILB, a cheap understudy for Cushing.

(Freeman) Upchuck & (Ponder) Puke.

For the love of god, don't even waste your time on these guys. If Case doesn't look like a Starter going forward, draft a QB and sign a older vet to help teach him the ropes.

If Case looks like he's a starter go elsewhere in the first round.

 

[leebigeztx]

(Freeman) Upchuck & (Ponder) Puke.

For the love of god, don't even waste your time on these guys. If Case doesn't look like a Starter going forward, draft a QB and sign a older vet to help teach him the ropes.

If Case looks like he's a starter go elsewhere in the first round.

I disagree and I don't have to look any further than the bills. After jp losman fell on his face,they drafted trent edwards in the 3rd rdin 07. He looked pretty good for a few games. They entered 08 with a chance at flacco and they passed while the ravens moved up to get him. Well we know the story and the rule is unless you're sure your qb is the sanswer,you can't pass a guy who can be a franchise qb. Unless case looks like drew brees,they can't afford to pass a talented qb who might be a franchhise qb. The qb is the most important position and you can't hide that guy no matter the talent around him. Not to mention the texans have andrew luck in their division. If you don't catch up with him,the texans will be forever relugated to 2nd or 3rd place. Once the afc south was formed in 02,peyton manning won it every year except 1 time. its gonna happen like that again if the qb isn't question isn't solved.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Dalemurphy, I agree players are mis judged,but how does a qb go undrafted? I mean they said ryan fitzpatrick had one of the best chalkboard sessions ever. He stuck around,got his chance under gailey,played well early and turned it into a big payday. Then teams found out he couldn't push the ball to certain quads of the field. He's still getting a great. Nfl check as a backup,but he was undrafted For a reason also. Could case be like this? Could. Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes. Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!

Ryan Fitzpatrick is Ryan Fitzpatrick and Case Keenum is Case Keenum.. they are their own man and two completely different players and neither has one to do with the other, other than both were undrafted players

As far as how does a QB go undrafted.. How does a Tom Brady go in the 6th round (nearly undrafted), how does a Bart Starr go in the 17th round. How many QBs went undrafted in this league who could start, but never did due just to the simple fact that they never got a chance to prove it, because they went undrafted.. we'll never know, but I'm pretty damn positive there were players just like that.

Just look at Arian Foster, if Tate doesn't get hurt and if Houston actually has a legit option at the position ahead of him.. does he get his chance to shine? If Schaub doesn't hit a career wall and if T.J. doesn't play like a UDFA.. does Case ever get a chance to prove if he can play or not?

I'm pretty sure just for those simple reasons alone, there's been UDFA QBs who never had the stars align for them and they rotted on a bench somewhere waiting for a chance that never came or simply fell through the cracks as they were cut after their first camp (Hello Kurt Warner.. who was lucky to get a rare second chance, thanks to a NFLe league that now doesn't even exist and have Trent Green go down and the stars aligned later on for him) Hell even Tom Brady had to have things happen that were out of his control in order for him to get his shot.

The only thing a higher draft round selection gets you is a increased chance to prove what you can do in this league, but once you get it and you prove it, nobody really gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school. Just like if you finally prove you can't do it, again... nobody gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school.

The odds are stacked against Keenum, nobody is going to doubt that, but it doesn't mean he can't beat them.. because they've been beat before.

 

[Carr Bombed]

I disagree and I don't have to look any further than the bills. After jp losman fell on his face,they drafted trent edwards in the 3rd rdin 07. He looked pretty good for a few games. They entered 08 with a chance at flacco and they passed while the ravens moved up to get him. Well we know the story and the rule is unless you're sure your qb is the sanswer,you can't pass a guy who can be a franchise qb. Unless case looks like drew brees,they can't afford to pass a talented qb who might be a franchhise qb. The qb is the most important position and you can't hide that guy no matter the talent around him. Not to mention the texans have andrew luck in their division. If you don't catch up with him,the texans will be forever relugated to 2nd or 3rd place. Once the afc south was formed in 02,peyton manning won it every year except 1 time. its gonna happen like that again if the qb isn't question isn't solved.

And what round was Losman taken in? The draft is a crap shoot. UDFAs can play like high draft picks and high draft picks can play like UDFAs..

And no, Case doesn't have to play like Drew Brees.. Andrew Luck isn't even on that level yet, hell Drew Brees wasn't even Drew Brees until his 4th year in the league.. He played so bad his team picked up and went with another QB.

All Case has to do is flash and play like a NFL starter with promise for real growth in the future this season and he'll get another shot next year too.. At the most Houston would do is spend a mid round pick to back up the position like Seattle did with Russel Wilson (another QB the scouts missed out on). If Case just plays like I described this team has a HELL OF A LOT more holes to fill.. Like most of the offensive line, remember the last time we stuck a high round QB under center without having a quality line? How did that work out? I'm actually hoping that Case can even overcome it this season, hopefully his year of watching will help him.

 

[Vance87]

Ryan Fitzpatrick is Ryan Fitzpatrick and Case Keenum is Case Keenum.. they are their own man and two completely different players and neither has one to do with the other other than both were undrafted players

As far as how does a QB go undrafted.. How does a Tom Brady go in the 6th round (nearly undrafted), how does a Bart Starr go in the 17th round. How many QBs went undrafted in this league who could start, but never got a chance due just to the simple fact that they never got a chance to prove it, because they went undrafted.. we'll never know, but I'm pretty damn positive their were players just like that.

Just look at Arian Foster, if Tate doesn't get hurt and if Houston actually has a legit option at the position ahead of him.. does he get his chance to shine? If Schaub doesn't hit a career wall and if T.J. doesn't play like a UDFA.. does Case ever get a chance to prove if he can play or not?

I'm pretty sure just for those simple reasons alone, there's been UDFA QBs who never had the stars align for them and they rotted on a bench somewhere waiting for a chance that never came or simply fell through the cracks as they were cut after their first camp (Hello Kurt Warner.. who was lucky to get a rare second chance, thanks to a NFLe league that now doesn't even exist and have Trent Green go down and the stars aligned later on for him) Hell even Tom Brady had to have things happen that were out of his control in order for him to get his shot.

The only thing a higher draft round selection gets you is a increased chance to prove what you can do in this league, but once you get it and you prove it, nobody really gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school. Just like if you finally prove you can't do it, again... nobody gives a damn where you were drafted or where you went to school.

The odds are stacked against Keenum, nobody is going to doubt that, but it doesn't mean he can't beat them.. because they've been beat before.

 

[leebigeztx]

And what round was Losman taken in? The draft is a crap shoot. UDFAs can play like high draft picks and high draft picks can play like UDFAs..

And no, Case doesn't have to play like Drew Brees.. Andrew Luck isn't even on that level yet, hell Drew Brees wasn't even Drew Brees until his 4th year in the league.. He played so bad his team picked up and went with another QB.

All Case has to do is flash and play like a NFL starter with promise for real growth in the future this season and he'll get another shot next year too.. At the most Houston would do is spend a mid round pick to back up the position like Seattle did with Russel Wilson (another QB the scouts missed out on). If Case just plays like I described this team has a HELL OF A LOT more holes to fill.. Like most of the offensive line, remember the last time we stuck a high round QB under center without having a quality line? How did that work out? I'm actually hoping that Case can even overcome it this season, hopefully his year of watching will help him.

To me its better to have the cowboys situation with aikman/walsh or sd with brees/rivers than passing a franchise type talent and regret it like buffalo by passing flacco. If you take a qb with the 1st rd pick and keenum proves to be a starter then you can always trade keenum or the rookie and recoup the pick. The eagles got a 2nd for their backup feely and a 1st and a player for kolb. In a qb starved league,have depth or percieved qb talent is a bonus. The chiefs got a 2nd,the top of the rd 2nd for smith. The texans were offered a 3rd for rosencopter but didn't trade him because they weren't sure about schaubs health.

 

[infantrycak]

I disagree and I don't have to look any further than the bills. After jp losman fell on his face,they drafted trent edwards in the 3rd rdin 07. He looked pretty good for a few games. They entered 08 with a chance at flacco and they passed while the ravens moved up to get him. Well we know the story and the rule is unless you're sure your qb is the sanswer,you can't pass a guy who can be a franchise qb.

One example does not make a rule especially where the example is not analogous. Flacco was replacing nobody, oops actually he was replacing a "franchise QB" taken one spot away from him.

Many drafts there are zero or 1 franchise QB. Others several franchise QBs are taken who flop before you get to the best QB. Going back far enough to have some judgement:

2009 - Stafford
2008 - Ryan and Flacco (1 and 2)
2007 - None
2006 - Cutler (3rd QB taken)
2005 - Rodgers (2nd)
2004 - Eli, Rivers and Big Ben (1-3) - exceptional draft - Romo (18+)
2003 - None
2002 - None
2001 - Brees (2nd)
2000 - Brady (7th)

Now how many of those guys were drafted to replace anyone of substance? The only arguable ones are Rodgers after an epic slide in anticipation of the retirement of Favre and Rivers to replace a Brees who at the time had done nothing, So really none.

Where are the teams who successfully upgraded their healthy, young, at least Matt Schaub level QB - 92 QB rating? The NFL does not appear to be built on your rule.

Unless case looks like drew brees,they can't afford to pass a talented qb who might be a franchhise qb.

Bad invocation of Brees - he had a 67.5 QB rating when they drafted Rivers.

For the record, prior to the season I was in favor of drafting a replacement for Schaub (even assuming the Texans were doing well and Schaub was playing to his norm) no later than the 3rd round and preferably earlier because of Schaub's age.

 

[76Texan]

Dalemurphy, I agree players are mis judged,but how does a qb go undrafted? I mean they said ryan fitzpatrick had one of the best chalkboard sessions ever. He stuck around,got his chance under gailey,played well early and turned it into a big payday. Then teams found out he couldn't push the ball to certain quads of the field. He's still getting a great. Nfl check as a backup,but he was undrafted For a reason also. Could case be like this? Could. Should Keenum continue to be the starter? Yes. Would or should the texans pass a qb in the 1st rd? No!

Steve DeBerg, drafted in the 10th rd ( #275 overall.)
Threw for 34,241 yards in his career.

Bill kenney, drafted in the 13th (#333 overall)
Threw for 17,277 yards.
One-time Pro-Bowler

Trent green, drafted in the 8th
Threw for 28,475 yards
Two-time PB

Doug Flutie, 11th rd
Pro bowler

Brian Sipe, 13th rd
23,714 yards, PB

The UDFA club:
Jake Delhome, Jon Kitna, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner,
Bart Star, Jack Kemp, Warren Moon, Tom Flores,
Jim Hart, Bobby Hebert, Dave Krieg, Jim Zorn.

I'm sure I missed a name or two.
Add to that the list of late rounders who made good-great starters.

Add to that the list of guys who were heavy spot-starters, multiply by 22, and I believe it's you who needs to explain to us why so many teams missed on their picks.

Also, proclaiming that the Texans need to look for a QB in the first round is premature, I think.

 

[leebigeztx]

76Texan - with the scouting the have now,they're not missing qb with talent nearly as much. All those guys you list were at least 10 yrs ago which is a lifetime in the nfl. The most recent guy was tony romo who played at what eastern michigan or somewhere like that? Go look at the last 10 yrs of superbowl qbs and see where they where drafted. That is the real obejective right? Now if you want a guy to get you through a season or so, fine. The way the nfl is setup today and going forward ,your qb will have to makeup for faults in your team because of the salary cap restrictions. Its not like it used to be when you could build your team all the way up and just get a guy to manage the game. The dilfer ravens and johnson bucs wnt happen again that I can see. Look at the holes the last 5 sb qb had to overcome ie ol,rb,wr injuries and such. Unless you have a stacked team and you can win with a guy on his rookie deal,the qb is gonna have holes on the team. We've seen big ben,rodgers,and eli win sbs with avg o-line and minimum run games. That's the wrld we're in now.

Really what it boils down to is talent evaluation. If the coaches view keenum as a franchise qb,they better be right or you will get fired quickly. Same can be said of the 1st or 2nd rd qb. My thing is as I mentioned before,id rather have 2 chances at being right than 1. Dallas had aikman and drafted walsh with a 1st rd supp pick. After the wash out,they got a 1st rd pick for walsh. In sd after trading down and drafting brees with the 1st pick in the 2nd rd even with his struggless,they still drafted rivers. The turned out to be on both qbs ad should've gotten something more than the 3rd. Rd compensatory pick for brees. Qb is a commodity in this league. If case flashes enough to say he's a starter,but the team continue to struggle and the coach gm evealuate a player there as a franchise qb in the 1st rd,you can't pass him or you shouldn't pass him. Now we do know gms and coaches can talk themselves into believing the guy on the roser is the guy or the guy a the draft position is the guy. As long as your right,its not a problem. Trading a qb on a rookie deal who is performing can yield a lot. I mean pats got a 1st rd pick for matt cassell who went undrafted and green bay got a 1st for hassellback from seattle who was a 6th rd pick if I remember.