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Who else is absolutely sick of people saying that we passed on Jordan?

phan1

Rookie
Because I sure as heck am. Sportswriters are total bandwagon jumpers, and it's starting to really tick me off. I must have read at least 3 long articles on how we just passed up on Jordan. Sorry, but I've yet to see any single NFL player dominate games on a consistent basis. Especially championship teams. You can win basketball championships with 2 key players. You have to win football championships with 11 on both sides of the ball. Football is the ultimate team sport. If anyone else believes that we passed on Jordan (ie a guy who's going to bring us a championship), than you are an idiot.

Did we pass up on the best football prospect ever? Yes, we just did. Did we pass up on building a championship team? Hardly. Would I have preferred Bush? Yes. Do I think we made a huge mistake? Only time will tell. But odds are 50/50 that either pick would help us win more games than the other. I can name a number of teams that would pick Williams ahead of Bush despite his being "the best prospect ever": Seahawks, Chargers, Chiefs, Bucs and likely Eagles, Steelers, and Giants. Think about it. Half these sportswriters don't even follow our team, so WTF do they know what we need to do to win?

Likely scenario 1) When DD is healthy, he's still going to put up 150 all purpose yards a game. Add in AJ and Moulds and we got a solid offense on paper. Morency is another RB who should show good improvement this season and is easily capable of doing the same thing. Mathis can become a game breaker if he stops acting like an idiot. We then add Mario Williams who can single-handedly bump our defensive ranking up 7-10 spots, not to mention the other changes that have been made for this defense.

Likely scenario 2) We draft Bush who is an instant contributor on offense who is a legitimate TD threat on any given play if teams don't respect him. We've got an offense that has the best skill postitions on the field hands down. But that still doesn't mean we're going to win shootouts versus Peyton Manning.

In the meantime, we still can't stop anybody and our Defense is still ranked at the bottom. You've got to be kidding me if you guys think Peek and Babin are good enough pass rushers to merit not taking Mario. These guys as SO OVERRATED! There isn't a team in the NFL that's even a tad jealous that we have these guys on our roster. We're probably the only fans in the NFL who know their names for crying out loud! I can't believe there is so much talk about 2 guys that have produced so little. Yes, our defense is apparantly THAT BAD. You can make a case that the coaching staff screwed up our offense production, but on defense, it's much more about quality players than schemes. The players that we have on D SUCK, and we did not address that in free agency like we did on offense. Weaver is nice, but that's about it. I don't even think the LB that we picked up in FA is a starter.

I don't think you can argue that any of these scenarios are better than another.
 
phan1 said:
We then add Mario Williams who can single-handedly bump our defensive ranking up 7-10 spots,

How do you know he could single handedly bump the team's defensive ranking 7-10 spots. Isn't football the ultimate TEAM sport. What have you seen that would even make you think that.:confused:
 
trublu said:
How do you know he could single handedly bump the team's defensive ranking 7-10 spots. Isn't football the ultimate TEAM sport. What have you seen that would even make you think that.:confused:

Likewise on Bush. How in the world is he going to let us win shootouts with Peyton Manning? I highly doubt he could have that dramatic affect on offense as Mario would on defense. RB and WR are not weaknesses on this team. Long term, he could be the better choice and our D would eventually come around. If we want to win right now, I don't think you can argue that Mario is the better choice. I do have to admit Williams does have a higher "bust factor", but I'm assuming both players will do what's expected of them.
 
Ray Lewis had a decline in play when the quality of Baltimore's D-Line started to decline. That is why they drafted Haloti Ngata.

Football is all about matchups. Reggie would have caused matchup problems on offense, but Mario is going to cause the same matchup problems on the defense.
If there is any question that Mario makes his teammates better, just look at where NC State linemen went in the draft.

The threat of Mario makes our linebackers better. The rotation of Weaver Payne/Robaire/Johnson/Williams will let the likes of DeMeco Ryans make plays. It will also give Texans the pass rush that it has lacked for the 1st four seasons. I think our secondary will improve as well because of it.
 
I'm not tired of it because in reality Mario may help us the most and do great but if Reggie ends up hitting his potential, then people will always make Mario Sam Bowie. Not my way of thinking but others do. It is how the media works.
 
haha.jpg


Next Reggie White?

Next Charles Haley?

We shall see....we shall see.

MW looks REAL good on tape playing against teams like XYZ School for The Blind and various other no name teams. Lets see how he plays against NFL left tackles.

My issue with picking a DE is, I still have a bad taste in my mouth from Dallas picking 3 DEs in a row with 1st or 2nd round picks, missing on ALL of them.

We know kubiak can win with scrub RBs. He has a history of it. Not drafting Bush was probably a good move.

I still think VY would have been the ideal pick.
 
If you have to go to another sport to make an argument, then you have a pretty weak argument. :twocents:
 
Glacier said:
MW looks REAL good on tape playing against teams like XYZ School for The Blind and various other no name teams. Lets see how he plays against NFL left tackles.

If your intent is to come strong then at least bring some facts to the table. The teams (ACC) Mario played against this year had 12 players drafted in the first round, an NFL record.
 
Señor Stan said:
Ray Lewis had a decline in play when the quality of Baltimore's D-Line started to decline. That is why they drafted Haloti Ngata.

Football is all about matchups. Reggie would have caused matchup problems on offense, but Mario is going to cause the same matchup problems on the defense.
If there is any question that Mario makes his teammates better, just look at where NC State linemen went in the draft.

The threat of Mario makes our linebackers better. The rotation of Weaver Payne/Robaire/Johnson/Williams will let the likes of DeMeco Ryans make plays. It will also give Texans the pass rush that it has lacked for the 1st four seasons. I think our secondary will improve as well because of it.

Wow!!! Mario's gonna jump over O-linemen and land on quarterbacks!!! :)

I have to admit, I'm warming up to the Mario pick more and more though.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If your intent is to come strong then at least bring some facts to the table. The teams (ACC) Mario played against this year had 12 players drafted in the first round, an NFL record.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not hoping Mario Williams is a bust by any means unlike some of the Houston Haters who are hoping VY fails.

I'm one of those odd people who enjoys cheering for the unglamorous position players like TEs, offensive linemen etc.

I would love to see MW blowing up QBs and having a 20 sack season. He could be the next Strahan. The kid does have "The Hump" and "The Swim"

Here is the thing though.....

I actually agreed with Michael Irvin when he said, Offense wins games. He said, it isn't about how many tackles or how many sacks you get that measures winning. It is POINTS SCORED that is measured. His argument was that you win games by keeping your offense on the field, moving the chains, wearing down the opposing defense. I agree with that. Think back to the amazingly dominant Cowboys and 49ers teams from the 90s. They ground out the clock. They moved the chains. When their defenses came onto the field, they were fresh, their uniforms were clean and they played few snaps. I like that style of offense.

the good news is, Kubiak has a great chance of building that sort of offense here in Texas with Moulds, Johnson and Davis.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
If your intent is to come strong then at least bring some facts to the table. The teams (ACC) Mario played against this year had 12 players drafted in the first round, an NFL record.

Mid Tennesse? Win, Wake Forest? Lost? N.C. State 7-5 against the Competition. 1 above .500 ? I think it was 3-5 against ACC?
 
Battle Red Bull said:
If you have to go to another sport to make an argument, then you have a pretty weak argument. :twocents:

Nuff Said....but i'll say more.


If you remember those 49ers and Cowboys teams.

Both had OUTSTANDING Top 5 Defenses. I mean the 49ers could claim one of the best secondary's in the NFL at the time. Merton Hanks, Tim McDonald, Eric Davis, Deion. I mean the list goes on and on. The reason the PLAYMAKER could grind it out on offense was b/c his DEFENSE was forcing 3 and outs. They kept themsleves fresh by making sure not to let the other team get long drives. They then could get the offense on the field more.
 
Glacier said:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not hoping Mario Williams is a bust by any means unlike some of the Houston Haters who are hoping VY fails.

I'm one of those odd people who enjoys cheering for the unglamorous position players like TEs, offensive linemen etc.

I would love to see MW blowing up QBs and having a 20 sack season. He could be the next Strahan. The kid does have "The Hump" and "The Swim"

Here is the thing though.....

1) I actually agreed with Michael Irvin when he said, Offense wins games. He said, it isn't about how many tackles or how many sacks you get that measures winning. It is POINTS SCORED that is measured. His argument was that you win games by keeping your offense on the field, moving the chains, wearing down the opposing defense. I agree with that. Think back to the amazingly dominant Cowboys and 49ers teams from the 90s. They ground out the clock. They moved the chains. When their defenses came onto the field, they were fresh, their uniforms were clean and they played few snaps. I like that style of offense.

the good news is, Kubiak has a great chance of building that sort of offense here in Texas with Moulds, Johnson and Davis.

1) Listening to an offensive player, Irving no less, pump offense was the first mistake

2) Look at the argument from the other angle; if your defense can't stop anybody, then the offense won't have any time to control the game.

The problem with a team that has a great offense and no D is that when they are down they have to press to score points, meaning only passing the ball usually, where teams that have a great D can count on them to make a gamechanging play.

A stripped fumble or INT is a bigger play than an 80 yard TD any time, especially if the defense goes right out there and gives the points back. If you believe football is a "game of inches" then you have to believe defense puts you in the best positon to win. If you can stuff teams on their end of the field and get the ball back around the 50, they only have to go about 20-30 yards before they're in scoring range...
 
phan1 said:
Half these sportswriters don't even follow our team, so WTF do they know what we need to do to win?

I try to take the sportswriter's viewpoints with a big grain of salt. After all, these are the same people that annointed USC the best college football team ever, and didn't give UT a snowball's chance in Brownsville. We all know how well they predicted the outcome of that contest.

Reggie Bush is not Michael Jordan. Comparing football to basketball is so ludicrous I immediately discount such talk as just worthless drivel to take up air time.

Bush is good, but the hype has just been astounding. Pundits proclaiming the Texans will suffer ten years of mediocrity because they passed on Bush - that's just nonsense.
 
I am sick of it. One person can dominate in basketball, it takes more than that in football.
 
Who else is absolutely sick of people saying that we passed on Jordan?
Are we talking about Anthony Jordan, OLB out of Toledo, Jelani Jordan, CB out of Bowling Green, or Northwestern RB Terrell Jordan? 'Cause all 32 teams passed on those guys.
 
Sam Bowie was who everyone thought at the time should have been drafted #2 after Hakeem Olajuwon. Wouldn't that make Reggie Bush the Sam Bowie of the draft?
 
Sam Bowie career was plagued with injuries. Portland should have known this as he was injured 2 of his 5 years in college. He went on to have an injury pledge career. Let us hope Williams, Young or Bush do not suffer though that type of career. I do not believe Sam Bowie had the talent (even without the injuries) of Hakeem or Jordan, but the Portland Trailblazer did at one time.
 
I'm glad the games are played on the field because according to most sports writers we now are always going to be a losing team based off of one draft. Even if you think we should have drafted Bush, that seems really short sighted.
 
Glacier said:
I actually agreed with Michael Irvin when he said, Offense wins games. He said, it isn't about how many tackles or how many sacks you get that measures winning. It is POINTS SCORED that is measured. His argument was that you win games by keeping your offense on the field, moving the chains, wearing down the opposing defense. I agree with that. Think back to the amazingly dominant Cowboys and 49ers teams from the 90s. They ground out the clock. They moved the chains. When their defenses came onto the field, they were fresh, their uniforms were clean and they played few snaps. I like that style of offense.

Reggie Bush is suppose to take up huge chunks of yards not just 5...or 7 per run but more liek 10 or 15 then a catch for 20 more yards. Besides isnt this how the Colts are built?
 
New_Texans said:
Reggie Bush is suppose to take up huge chunks of yards not just 5...or 7 per run but more liek 10 or 15 then a catch for 20 more yards. Besides isnt this how the Colts are built?


And how many championships have the Colts won? Zero!
No matter how great the O, championships are won with D.
 
fingers5 said:
And how many championships have the Colts won? Zero!
No matter how great the O, championships are won with D.

Exactly... thats what im saying. Although they almost got into the Super Bowl with some help with the refs.
 
I'm kind of sick about all of this too. What's funny too, is that I used to be a big Reggie Bush guy, believing all the hype. Now I hope the bashers are right...NFL linebackers are faster, Reggie'll only have 10 touches a game, Reggies overrated, etc.

I can't wait for the first big hit on Bush. Playing in the NFC south, it'll probably be...Julius Peppers catching him in the backfield, wrapping him up by his ankles...then Thomas Davis flies in to finish him off and hits him so hard, his helmut flies off!!! :redtowel:
 
Glacier said:
Here is the thing though.....

I actually agreed with Michael Irvin when he said, Offense wins games. He said, it isn't about how many tackles or how many sacks you get that measures winning. It is POINTS SCORED that is measured. His argument was that you win games by keeping your offense on the field, moving the chains, wearing down the opposing defense. I agree with that.
Go tell that to the Colts. Don't ask the Steelers.
 
Vinny said:
Go tell that to the Colts. Don't ask the Steelers.

well... the Steelers do have the highest TOP per number of plays called in the entire NFL.

8th TOP 23rd(?) in number of plays called

So it's not completely without merit. They did like to keep their offense on the field to dine on the clock without actually doing as much ( aka run the ball, run the clock, can't score if you don't have the ball or the time to do it defense )

EDIT:
Not that that has anything whatsoever to do with Jordan!
:D

absolutely have no idea why I posted in...
 
Teams with balance win championships. All three aspects of the game should be considered not just defense or offense. Playing well on both sides of the ball give a team a better chance of winning. The dominant teams that won multiple championships could defend and score. We needed better balance and Mario will help. Jordan is a special athlete, but if he never had Pippen I dont think we would be having this subject brought up. The Texans underachieved last season especially on defense. We have a new coach with a new way of thinking and hopefully a new attitude.
 
The steelers had a dominating defense and a trio of running backs not one star back in fact willie parker their best back didn't even start in college
and for all those people still jocking the colts offense think about this their offense has been explosive since manning has been their but they had a breakout year last season because they solidified their defense thats why they won more games like hue said a team that Has good D and can run the ball will always beat you.:twocents:
 
eh. I balk at giving them dominant D status. It just wasn't there.

They were 2/4 against teams with a winning record in the regular season. It's not to say that their D is poor, it's to say that it wasn't the "IT" factor in what brought home the Lombardi.

The Bengals and Colts came close and had a chance to knock them off. You would have to say that they didn't even have a chance if your D is dominate. ( like the 85 Bears )

anyway to keep on topic

Bush is the Tiger Woods of Football.
 
TwinSisters said:
They were 2/4 against teams with a winning record in the regular season. It's not to say that their D is poor, it's to say that it wasn't the "IT" factor in what brought home the Lombardi.


That stat can be used against the offense or a defense. It just shows that the team as a whole didn't step up against winning teams.
 
TexanFan881 said:
That stat can be used against the offense or a defense. It just shows that the team as a whole didn't step up against winning teams.

you are cutting out the dominant word.

If you dominate they cannot out score you, in the least you have a tie or a really low scoring lose. They had neither.
( in that response )

If the Steelers had a dominant defense, you would expect to see a 4/2 split and low scoring games against winners.

----

My original point is that a successful high powered running offense will make your defense look better then what it is ( statistically ).

But I also advocate that 'defense wins championships' is just water cooler talk that doesn't hold water.

---

Reggie Bush is the Abe Lincoln of Football
 
After Young, Bush was my choice. However, after the Texans decided to go in a different direction, I decided to sit back and hopefully enjoy whatever the team produces this season. No doubt about it, time will reveal who the best choice was.
 
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