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In the clash of NFL Owners vs NFL Players, which side are you on?
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The players lost all the trust I had with them when they made the first move to stop the process by decertifing.
If your income was based upon a percentage of the company's revenue, I'm pretty darn sure you'd want to look at the books.I'm with the owners, especially when it comes to opening the books for the players. If I asked my coporate masters to open the books, I'd be laughed out of their offices; and unlike the players a fair chunk of the company I work for shares are owned by the employees.
Joe Dirt said:This is a business, this is not a charity. You know, I mean maybe one day Unicef will get into the impound business, but you know, until then, we're the people to see.
Neither. Both sides are gonna see a dramatic effect on diehards like me. I was a diehard MLB fan until 1994, and have NEVER been the same again. I was a bigtime NHL fan until they killed their season several years ago, and I have yet to buy a ticket to a game there since then, nor have I purchased any official NHL merchandise.
The NFL is no different to me, as much as I love it. I'll eventually get apathetic, move on and take years to regain passion for their sport.
Neither. Both sides are gonna see a dramatic effect on diehards like me. I was a diehard MLB fan until 1994, and have NEVER been the same again. I was a bigtime NHL fan until they killed their season several years ago, and I have yet to buy a ticket to a game there since then, nor have I purchased any official NHL merchandise.
The NFL is no different to me, as much as I love it. I'll eventually get apathetic, move on and take years to regain passion for their sport.
If your income was based upon a percentage of the company's revenue, I'm pretty darn sure you'd want to look at the books.
Get real man ! Everybodys income ultimately is based upon the financial performance of their employer, assuming they work in the nongovernmental/private sector of the economy. And I'm also pretty darn sure if most people in the private sector told their employer they wanted to see his books, he'd tell them to look else where for employment.If your income was based upon a percentage of the company's revenue, I'm pretty darn sure you'd want to look at the books.
Get real man ! Everybodys income ultimately is based upon the financial performance of their employer, assuming they work in the nongovernmental/private sector of the economy. And I'm also pretty darn sure if most people in the private sector told their employer they wanted to see his books, he'd tell them to look else where for employment.
In the poll, I voted for owners... as I was drafting my post for reasons why, I couldn't argue against one fact!
The NFL is a monopoly!!!
Alot of people, including myself, may say something like... "In my job, I'd get fired for asking my boss I deserve more 'piece of the pie'. Owners take all of the risk when purchasing an NFL team, therefore they have the right to dictate how much they want to play their players." I was going to go on and on down these lines...
But then I realized... if I feel my boss isn't paying me enough, I can simply quit and work elsewhere, doing the same thing. Therefore, they are encourage to keep salaries high to stay competitive. This doesn't hold true in the NFL, though. They have a Monopoly. NFL owners don't have to worry about the players quitting and playing for the Arena league, or the CFL. So I get the players' side as well.
Unfortunately, the only loser in all of this are the fans.
No , they dont have a monopoly , they may be the highest paying league but there are other leagues including the Arena and Canadian leagues .... the players do have options , those options are just less appealing than the NFL. They are options just the same.
Open the books ? ..... Hell no , an employee has no right to see that information.
I could easily see some teams losing money especially in smaller markets or those who's teams cant fill a stadium - Jacksonville ? Carolina ? Detroit ?
As for the players wanting a bigger piece of the profits , hell the leage minimum pays about 20 times the salary of the average American .... and most make that many times over. Sure they run the risk of injury but does that mean they can never work again ? ..... these people need to come back down to earth. So much for putting that college education they got for free to work.
See the thing is AT you are talking apples and oranges here. The Houston Texans are a wholy owned corporation of Bob McNair and/or the McNair family, except perhaps for some very nominal interests held by some other prominent Houstonians. But the corporate entity is "privately held", whereasI guess more of America works for privately held corporations and individuals owners than I thought. I mean it has been a few years for me, but when I worked for places like Target, Wells Fargo and Nations Bank (I think now Bank of America), I was (or either could pretend to be) a stockholder and could get audited financial reports by just requesting it. In fact, Starbucks just sent the annual report(with audited financials) to me.
Audited financials at least with public corporations is a course of business. Now, I am not saying there was not funny money in the report, but for the most an individual could determine if the company was making more, making less money (probably what's happening with some of the NFL franchises) or not making money at all.
So is soccer next for you?
Atleast the Houston 1836 errrrr Dynamo have won a championship.
Ummmmm....
You do realize that the players didn't really ask for a bigger piece of the profits...
The owners asked them to play more games and take less money.
I do not blame the players at all (doesn't mean I'm taking their side)...I can see why they would want to see the books and I can see why they don't just bend over and take it like some people want them to.
If I enter into a contract with someone and they come back and ask me to take less money because they are losing money, I'd want to know why too. Especially if they asked me to work a couple extra days as well...
It's business. Yes it sucks for the fans and for all those working class people spending their hard earned money, but I think people just want what works for them.
The fans don't care about the players anymore than the players and owners care about the fans. We just want to watch football, the owners want more money coming their way and the players don't want to take a step back.
Just a bunch of whining coming from all three angles.
If your income was based upon a percentage of the company's revenue, I'm pretty darn sure you'd want to look at the books.
I have kids - trust me, my time isn't as disposable as it once was. I also work for an all-sports network that shoves 500 regional NHL games down everyone's throats. I've never been busier at work either.
Best way I can add to what I already said is this.
Since 1994, I have yet to attend a MLB game. I've not bought any Astros gear, not even when they came so close winning the Series.
Since 2004, I have not bought any Leafs tickets (which are beyond expensive anyways). I have not spent a dime on merchandise.
I have about 10 NFL jerseys purchased in the last 5 years, and have been to a game almost every year, which I have happily paid for, and in most cases, flown to Nashville to get 'er done. That stops the second these guys deprive us all of their sport. They wanna test my loyalty? My track record suggests otherwise, and I'll bet there are millions like me. There are lots of things to do on Sundays in the fall, I'll re-discover them and move on.
Neither. Both sides are gonna see a dramatic effect on diehards like me. I was a diehard MLB fan until 1994, and have NEVER been the same again. I was a bigtime NHL fan until they killed their season several years ago, and I have yet to buy a ticket to a game there since then, nor have I purchased any official NHL merchandise.
The NFL is no different to me, as much as I love it. I'll eventually get apathetic, move on and take years to regain passion for their sport.
They got to look at 5 years of material, though not the level of detail they were demanding.
I see two problems with the union's request:
1. The union was determined to stand firm. The owners weren't claiming that there was an immediate threat to the league. So, nothing the union would see in the balance sheet would convince the union it should ask for less.
2. What the sheets would provide would be anecdotal evidence supporting the union's argument that the owners are wasteful with the money and should be better stewards.
There is not one scenario, other than proof the league was headed for immediate financial ruin, where showing the union each team's balance sheet would aid in collective bargaining. Not one.
Couldn't disagree more.
You're making it sound like the players are imbeciles and the owners are just so much more smarter....
If the owners can look at their books and determine that they are heading down a bad path, why couldn't they just present that evidence? I'm pretty sure there is someone smart enough on the players side to decipher the same information and come to a conclusion.
Another thing...Why not just show them the data or numbers? I understand that everything is "about the principal", but wouldn't that help to rapidly move the talks along? They would completely put the ball in the unions court....Examine the books...if you are really losing money or heading for that end, they will be able to see that and will have to make a move...The fans would know that the owners are being genuine and so would the players union.
I'm not really defending either side...just pointing out that they both share some fault. It's business.
I support the fans. Without us the ownera don't own and the players don't play.
Fans need to stand up and unite. Where do you think the $9B comes from? OUR pockets!
I think the owners miscalculated here and will likely eventually cave on other issues to avoid producing audited financial statements.
The owners have offered 5 years of financial statements and an independent audit.
The owners have offered 5 years of financial statements and an independent audit.
You got a link for that? There is a HUGE difference between "selected financial data" and financial statements.
Pash said the league was prepared to work with an agreed upon third party to give full audited financial team statements from the last five years. What exactly that third party would report on whether it was more than just generalized profits or not was uncertain.
It was reported on profootballtalk.com and a couple other sources such as:
Now what that means is more your bailiwick.
I'm totally with the owners here. Here is why.
1. NFL players and NBA players are some of the most greedy, immature, and over paid athletes alive. Baseball players are as well, but they don't waste all their money away nearly as much, aren't arrested as much, and don't have near the egos that NBA and NFL players do. That being said, I'd almost like it if the season were pushed away in hopes that some of the NFL players could see how well they have it and stop acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. Owners will always be rich whether it was in this business or some other business. They earned their keep already and already built empires so they're a little more deserving to me. It's the fans that make up this sport. We live and die to watch it. I don't think that the athletes today hardly understand or care about that. SO many of them buy bling, 5 cars, several houses, and support their entourages with gifts and everything else. They have no right to be bitching right now. They're making a gazillion times more money than the early pioneers of this sport ever made in the 60's and 70's who didn't have all these great doctors and endorsement deals that these other clowns get now days.
A lockout just might be what the doctor ordered. Bring in some new players and some athletes that can appreciate the history of this sport and what makes it available for them which is the fans.
I'm totally with the owners here. Here is why.
1. NFL players and NBA players are some of the most greedy, immature, and over paid athletes alive. Baseball players are as well, but they don't waste all their money away nearly as much, aren't arrested as much, and don't have near the egos that NBA and NFL players do. That being said, I'd almost like it if the season were pushed away in hopes that some of the NFL players could see how well they have it and stop acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. Owners will always be rich whether it was in this business or some other business. They earned their keep already and already built empires so they're a little more deserving to me. It's the fans that make up this sport. We live and die to watch it. I don't think that the athletes today hardly understand or care about that. SO many of them buy bling, 5 cars, several houses, and support their entourages with gifts and everything else. They have no right to be bitching right now. They're making a gazillion times more money than the early pioneers of this sport ever made in the 60's and 70's who didn't have all these great doctors and endorsement deals that these other clowns get now days.
A lockout just might be what the doctor ordered. Bring in some new players and some athletes that can appreciate the history of this sport and what makes it available for them which is the fans.
The differences between a NFL contract (non-guaranteed), the lifespan of their career, and the likelihood of physical health issues after their career is much more paramount than a NBA or MLB player.
I grow tired of the "but, but, their contract isn't guaranteed. They can be let go at any time..." Is your job guaranteed? Mine's not. Maybe they should actually try and learn something while in college instead of going through the motions just to get to where they are. "But the average career of an NFL player is only 3 years and can have lasting damage to their bodies.." That's weak, because they know this when they take the job. These are the 15 most dangerous jobs in America. Football isn't one of them, but a job I once held is.
It is a privilege to play a sport for a living, not a right. Music groups/bands/artists/etc don't go asking what kind of profits the record companies are making. I sure don't, either. If the players feel they are treated unfairly they can always find new jobs that apply to their degree(probably communications or physical education). Bring in the scrubs, I say. Sign UFL players, Arena, whomever and get back to playing. I pay to watch a team, not a player.
Are the owners right in asking for more money? I don't know, probably, and don't really care anymore. Just bring football back, regardless of who the players are.