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Texans release C Nick Martin
- Thread starter amazing80
- Start date
And he failed miserably. Period.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Favor to the Arizona Cardinals to go along with DeAndre Hopkins.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
It’s gonna be funny to see him wind up with another NFL team that has good coaching and offensive line, like Green Bay. Then we’ll see who’s laughing at who
beerlover
Hall of Fame
They couldn’t even get a pick for JJ Watt. Means didley squat, wouldn’t know what to do with a pick if they had one. Complete joke and laughing stock of the league.
The Cards paid Watt
Do you think given his injury history they will get their $$$$ worth?
If they only use him 60-70% of the time I think he can be more successful than he was last yr.
They couldn’t even get a pick for JJ Watt. Means didley squat, wouldn’t know what to do with a pick if they had one. Complete joke and laughing stock of the league.
They did Watt a solid by letting him walk.
I'm going to atleast give Caserio a chance.
It’s gonna be funny to see him wind up with another NFL team that has good coaching and offensive line, like Green Bay. Then we’ll see who’s laughing at who
If CnD is right his lower extremities injuries are never going to let him become what I thought he could be. Ben Jones
austins23
Hall of Fame
I think Watt took the most money. He’s not going to get his “ring” in Arizona.
23mil guaranteed? That’s lots of money for a dude that may end up being a designated pass rusher.
And thank goodness Martin is gone. Strength aside, I dont think the guy ever figured it out between the ears. As far as calling out protections, etc.
Is this the last memory of Martin in a Texans' uniform? I've seen shotgun snaps high or low. But never low, short and left. The video angle doesn't do justice to how bad the snap was.
I'm with you Steel on NC, actually I've already given him favorable marks on a couple personnel decisions he's made but
the JJ Watt situation is too nuanced, too complicated to lump into a black or white, successful or failure type category.
Watt is the most popular person/player in the franchises history and also kinda a local icon, even hero.
The decision about Watt was most likely taken out of Caserios hands, it was probably largely an ownership decision.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Shouldn’t have to point this out but inept coaching brings out inept play. Inept ownership brings out unrest, discord and poor results. Watt leaving was a solid to him, besides cap relief, but ask yourself why did he want to leave, it sure in the hell wasn’t about the money? Martin just adds to a long list of players, evaluated and drafted high to fill a specific need that for whatever reason never worked out.
New leaf with Caserio you say, trust in Caserio you say, where have I heard this “trust” blah blah blah before? Was it Casserly, Pay me Rick, Big Gaines, Butt Chin Bill?
New leaf with Caserio you say, trust in Caserio you say, where have I heard this “trust” blah blah blah before? Was it Casserly, Pay me Rick, Big Gaines, Butt Chin Bill?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Whatever you base this on there are 23 million reasons saying you're wrong.
As far as Martin goes yes he was a bust but there have been a lot of busts in the NFL through the years and not all of those were due to bad coaching. I agree Devlin was a horrible coach but as I said before learning how to snap a ball should have been something Martin learned in high school. Martin was ultimately a bust, we can argue all day if that was due to bad coaching, injuries or if he just didn't have it but long story short he was a bust. Mistake Texans made is most teams don't make their busts one of the highest paid at their position after their rookie contract is up.
Good, he can go lose games with Hopkins.
#fuckloyalty
Quoted for truth
But, it turns out it was about the money.
We thought it was for a chance at a championship.
Turns out it was for an extra yr and an extra 14 mil.
I'm not saying I trust Caserio, I'm saying that I'm going to give him a chance and so far I like the job he's doing. But will admit it's early. I hope Caserio gets a couple of starters out of this draft. But I'm really not going to judge him until the 2022 draft. That and what he gets for DW4 once he's traded. I consider the equivalent of three 1st rd picks and a high level starting player a very good deal.
The worst part of this is the contract Martin signed was his 2nd contract. That was pure stupidity. I blame injuries for Martin busting. Other than that bad snap he really wasn't horrible at shotgun snaps. Not saying he was great at it, but he wasn't horrible.
I agree with you about inept coaching leading to bad technique and leading to inept play. But dang, how many centers do things like this:
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I believe the story stated that Watt sat down with the McNair's and asked for his release and they granted him his release. Probably out of respect for what he brought to the franchise. I would've been ok with getting, at best, a RD4 for Watt but seeing him get his release was fine as well.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
We really don’t know the full scope of events that went on, inside the locker room over Hopkins and Watts careers with Texans, but I’m sure there is some commonality that, for lack of a better word, binds them together.
Also feel, in regards to JJ Watt, coaching was a major force in his decision. And that coach would be former Texan coach and Arizona Defensive Coordinator Vance Joseph. So you can stop with all in on the money BS. Heck I think Texans are paying Whitney Mercilous around the same dollar amount, are they even close to on the field, impact players? JJ Watt if it was just about the money, could have gotten more somewhere less attractive, but the fit and rising promise of the Arizona Cardinals, reuniting with Vance and DHop overriding reasons.
Devlin was a joke. He was part of the Texans war room, all a complete joke. Martin probably lived off his brothers rep Zach, all his playing days, and also being a Golden Domer leds some to overvalue based off character and intelligence (Will Fuller was selected in first round from Norte Dame, same 2016 draft). Having said all that, Center was huge need, remember post Myers, interior protection known weakness for any and all of those QB’s on the carrousel (Osweiler, Savage, Yates). In fact my final Mock draft for 2016, had Texans selecting Center Ryan Kelly in the first, 21st overall but the freaking Colts took him #18.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Joseph hasn't been with the Texans since 2014, are you really making the case that Watt is so desperate to reconnect with his coach from 7 years ago? If that was the case why even sign the what two extensions he has with the Texans? Likewise you make it sound like Watt being cut was completely his choice. Here's the facts cutting Watt removed 17 million off the cap with almost no dead money, cutting Mercilous as a dead money cap hit of 15 million. How do you know JJ could have gotten more somewhere else? All the reports coming out was that he was being offered 15-16 million a season and I'd say it was the 23 million guarantee that pushed him over the to Cardinals. Personally I thought he would sign with the Browns as they are rising much faster than Arizona and him and Garret would have been a scary combo.
I'm confused are you arguing for or against Martin? Yes center was a big need and at the time I was glad we drafted Martin but he has been a bust. Doesn't matter who's fault that is fact is he has been a bust and if CnD's medical review on him is accurate he will continue to be a bust. Coaching can't fix a base weakened from injury. Thing that gets to me is that your original point was how stupid the Texans are for cutting him without a replacement. Whats kind of stupid is saying that in March. You do realize there is a lot of off season, the draft, all of training camp and all of the preseason games still to go before Texans have to have an answer right? Even if they had to have an answer now they have Fuller they can slide in there.
Scooter
Funky
I'm no fan of Martin, needs to be upgraded. But I reiterate: have better before replacing offensive linemen. "Maybe we do" ... no, we don't. "Maybe we draft" ... possible late round rookies under unknown coaches. A blunder clip, here's him stoning almost every 1v1 in Watson's 11m highlight film. When actually looking for it, it's kinda funny seeing 4 of a 5 man rush attacking the QB and the "A" DT squashed at the line of scrimmage. Before Robert Kraft bought the team (and bought it again faithfully last year), we had amazing coaches and teachers - Martin has talent that won't be realized, should be a backup, and he certainly costs too much. If we had a teacher instead of a preacher he'd be a wholly different player, but rings are heavy even at altitude and Kraft's idiots come cheap. Still, I'd rather a bad but serviceable center than the junk practice squad linebacker we'll replace him with.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
You are connecting dots that aren't there. First there is a very good argument to be made that Fuller is just as good if not better Martin. Not sure where all this love for Martin is coming from considering this board has been screaming for his head for the last 2 years. Guess people only wanted him cut if it was their preferred person doing the cutting. Second there is nothing "unknown" about our new offensive line coach. James Campen has a hell of a record and was considered the best offensive line coach on the market. I get it you hate all things NE but news flash when you have a winning organization the people in those organizations tend to be hot hires. Martin may have talent but as CnD pointed out his injuries mean he doesn't have the base to be a center anymore. Talent can't overcome injuries. Your "preacher instead of a teacher" statement makes no sense and again is just showing how you hate all things NE. Martin sucked long before Easterby got here who has zero to do with it anyway. Finally, again this is the beginning of March and you and a couple of others are acting like the team has to have all pieces in place today, no team, even the best run ones, know what their roster will look like next season because the draft and F/A hasn't even started yet so why are you holding the Texans to a standard that no team can meet?
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Better late than never, I guess. Some owners never figure it out. Their egos get in the way. Hopefully Cal learned many valuable lessons in 2020 with the O'Brien debacle.
Caserio has the potential to be a good GM, and based on that, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. It remains to be seen if there is a new power structure on Kirby, but at least it appears to be headed in the right direction from the outside looking in.
JJ said in November 2020 that he wants to finish his career with a contender, not a rebuild. The Texans are clearly in rebuild mode right now. Releasing him was out of respect and most likely to avoid more bad PR, considering their plate is full of it already.
I don't believe it, but you can make a case that the Cardinals could be competitive for a championship. I doubt they win their division in 2021, but anything is possible from year to year. A wildcard team just won the SB.
That's one good way to look at it.
Hold the guy accountable from the get go.
I think you and the other posters should start posting in the NC thread to keep up with all the "questionable" moves that he makes.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Just with the very few moves he's already made, he's proving that he's gonna put a stop to what beerlover is asserting. No GM wins every deal & He won't either, but just by him being competent.....that will go a long way to him being the guy we've been missing since...........2002.
I very much like every move he's made so far. Some moves he'll have to wait to make b/c they're cost prohibitive right now but dumping Duke, Martin and Kelemete.....resigning DJ down off that impending 12.5 cap hit to a 1/3 of that......all great moves in my book.
People expecting this dude to just come in here and start slashing and burning b/c that's the only way they think this rebuild can happen...well, that wasn't ever going to happen. strategic cuts was always gonna be the way to go to turn this team around as fast as possible.
I very much like every move he's made so far. Some moves he'll have to wait to make b/c they're cost prohibitive right now but dumping Duke, Martin and Kelemete.....resigning DJ down off that impending 12.5 cap hit to a 1/3 of that......all great moves in my book.
People expecting this dude to just come in here and start slashing and burning b/c that's the only way they think this rebuild can happen...well, that wasn't ever going to happen. strategic cuts was always gonna be the way to go to turn this team around as fast as possible.
Dumping high salary players is the easy part.
That doesn't get any point from me.
Now, if he was able to get a 5th, 6th, or 7th pick for a guy; that's a score.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Is it really easy when you're trying to still field a competitive team? Getting low round draft picks for guys doesn't move the needle that much more for me simply b/c many times that's somewhat built into the system with compensatory picks (although not the case here) and 2, those low round guys 90% of the time don't materialize into anything more than special teamers anyway....and for me personally, I pretty much check out on the draft after round 3-4. For instance, they may end up getting a compensatory pick for Fuller & all Caserio has done is...nothing. Aside from that, getting picks for players takes 2 parties to agree & its made much harder to achieve when that player has a ridiculous cap hit associated with them.
Also what has everyone said about our roster? That outside of Tunsil, DW4...Fuller and Reid (maybe) none of these guys are starting for other teams...some aren't even back ups.
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Some think that with coaching, Martin should improve.
I don't really know if that's going to be the case.
But did NC at least get Martin to take a pay cut?
Kevin Walter, first guy comes to mind, took more than a 40% pay cut, from $3.5M down to $2M.
And as we just saw, DJ also took a pay cut.
Most people think Martin didn't deserve the contract, that he didn't play nowhere near top 5 money.
But he might be a middle of the pack player, especially if what most of us think is true (that Devlin was just an incompetent line coach).
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Maybe he asked & Martin refused.
Maybe he looked at Martin's cap savings and decided it was too much to pass on.
Maybe he released him and will look to bring him back at a better number once FA starts if Martin doesn't catch on somewhere else.
Maybe the new OL coach watched tape & told NC that he's not going to get any better than he already is and rather than NC have him on the bench making top 5 center money NC decided cutting him was the best way to go after Martin refused to take a pay cut
Maybe Martin was like DW4 and wanted out too...
There are just too many scenarios where his release was better option for the team so i won't kill NC for the move.
If Martin goes somewhere and get a starting gig, would that be considered a negative for NC?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Depends, is he actually any good where he goes to? Just getting a starting gig means nothing to me but then I don’t automatically assume that every other team and coach is smarter than the Texans like some people around here do.
Well, the first thing is that if he starts, he deserves some kind of compensation right?
If it's just veteran minimum then I probably don't hold anything against NC.
(Keep in mind that this is a Covid salary cap year.)
But if he gets more than a one-year prove it deal, I think it should be a negative mark for failure to negotiate a cut.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Not really b/c imo any team that picks him up as a starter is probably really desperate. We saw Tenn do that with Suafilo a few years ago right after we released him & then he went to Dallas and started a few games for them...they ultimately both got the same results we did.
Filo signed either veteran minimum or thereabout, and not to be the outright starter.
Also, with the Bengals, he was injured in the first game and put on IR.
He came back and started the last 4 games.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
agreed, just making the point that him getting into a starting gig after us doesn’t really mean a whole lot in terms of his performance here or even that it will be better there than it was here...by that same token a bench guy finally getting into a starting role doesn’t necessarily mean that he wasn’t starting quality before he got a chance to actually be a starter..
I get what you're saying.
I just want to see if we can establish some criteria.
As I was asking, if Martin get a decent multi-year deal (keeping in mind that we're in a Covid-cap-space time) instead of a one-year proved it deal, that should be the first indication that NC didn't do a good job negotiating a cut, shouldn't it?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
again not really mostly b/c we don’t know the circumstances surrounding his release.
But I guess it depends on what you call a “decent” multi year deal too. We both know that NFL contracts are all about the guaranteed money and he signed a 3 year 33 million dollar deal with us with 18.5 guaranteed. everyone here said he was massively overpaid with that contract. So if he signs with a team for something a little less than that but something where the guaranteed money is high, and then becomes a starter for said team, I could maybe see that that might means a little something of what you’re talking about. But if he signs something similar to what say Breno Giacomini signed for right before he came here (4 yr 18 mil, 7 guaranteed) and he just happened to fall into a starting gig, it doesn’t reflect badly on NC at all imo.
Martin and DJ are at different points in their careers tho. One guy is nearing the end and is trying to hold on. Plus we know what happens to rb’s once they hit 30. DJ will be 30 next season. That makes him amenable to contract renegotiation. Another is in theory in his prime and was locked up on his deal for at least the next 2 years..that sorta makes him not amenable for renegotiation...especially when you consider the deal he got was tremendously favorable to him.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
There is enough bad tape on Martin where he gets smoked off the line, pushed around by power, takes wrong steps, and occasional awful snap that I suspect the new OL coach said no matter the price we need a better center so it was easy to let him go. I suspect NC tested if he could get any trade partners and no bueno so he cut his ass. I don't have the energy to look back in this forum, but I struggle to recall any Nick fans and at the price he is paid, bye.
OK, we still have plenty of time.
I need to look into this further.
Maybe we can start by looking at all the Centers in the league by salaries, years of service, and their skill levels (which maybe difficult).
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Could be situation where you can have it both ways, on the organization for spending second round pick and then extending him with lucrative contract and on player because he never lived up to either expectations.
My bottom line is the Texans post Gibbs, for that matter pre Gibbs, haven’t got a clue how to build, coach or manage an NFL offensive line. It’s not like they haven’t tried (should have fired Devlin earlier) practically thrown every asset to fix the problem, but results have been abysmal, spending all this draft/cap capital then releasing bait.
My bottom line is the Texans post Gibbs, for that matter pre Gibbs, haven’t got a clue how to build, coach or manage an NFL offensive line. It’s not like they haven’t tried (should have fired Devlin earlier) practically thrown every asset to fix the problem, but results have been abysmal, spending all this draft/cap capital then releasing bait.
What would you think if he signs a Giacomini type deal, gets moved to guard, locks down a starting spot, & becomes a probowler, & his team is constantly among rushing leaders?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
......probably wake up from that dream and wonder why I ate what I ate before going to bed. Martin has no base, that's why he gets rag-dolled so easily. Personally, I don't see Martin's NFL career lasting much longer unless he's willing to be a backup OG/C inthe future.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I still wouldn’t think that NC made a mistake by cutting bait b/c the guaranteed money on that contract shows that the team that signed him wasn’t even confident in his skills. That contract screams “flyer”. The only way I would even consider that NC might’ve made a mistake is if he signed a deal slightly less in the percentage of GTD money he recieved here AND he went on to become a legit starting C pro bowler. Beyond those specific circumstances, NC made the right move by releasing him.