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Texans Offensive Line

Number19 said:
Just rewatched the Titan game, keying in on Scruggs. His play wasn't as bad, overall, as I initially thought. I have him flagged for 3 bad plays. Unfortunately, 2 were back to back in OT. At 5:45 he just totally whiffed in his attempt at blocking a DB on a screen pass. His block got the tackle for the loss. The next play, he gave up his second sack of the game. His first sack came at 12:58 in the 4th quarter.

Other than these 3 plays, he had a fairly good game. But giving up two sacks will earn you a PFF grade of 49.1 for pass blocking.

Sunday will be a good test. I think he'll be up against Shelby Harris, who has 2 sacks, 2 hits and 10 hurries.

Garrett, Smith, Hurst, Harris, Tomlinson, Okorankwo...have a combined 31 sacks, 40 hits and 145 hurries (if I counted correctly).

Whew, Case Keenum will be under pressure.
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I think Scruggs was caught up on the second play you referred to because of the play before. I am still high on Juice Scruggs but would not be opposed to moving him to guard in 2024.
 
badboy said:
I think Scruggs was caught up on the second play you referred to because of the play before. I am still high on Juice Scruggs but would not be opposed to moving him to guard in 2024.
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Come the off season he'll likely be back at center. The only reason he's at LG is there's no one else. It's crazy, but we have a play where he pulls to the right and blocks the DE. Does a pretty good job of it. But his natural position is back at center.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm thinking Patterson is the guy at center.
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That's a real steal for Nick & the Texans, you know 6th round pick and starting several games for us before going IR.
Do you see Patterson starting on a long-term basis ( at guard or center) for us Steel ?
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm thinking Patterson is the guy at center.
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IDEXAN said:
That's a real steal for Nick & the Texans, you know 6th round pick and starting several games for us before going IR.
Do you see Patterson starting on a long-term basis ( at guard or center) for us Steel ?
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There's something to be said for Juice remaining at Guard. Going back and comparing their Combine workouts, Juice is the better athlete. Having now seen how the Texans pull their guard on some run plays, Juice may be the better of the two.

But still, we drafted Juice for Center, we traded back up into the 2nd round to get him, and we have Green2, a natural LG who played ZBS in college, coming back from IR. And Green1 will be back in camp, although I'm not having any expectations for his return.

Mason is entrenced at RG, but perhaps his starting position could be challenged by Patterson and Broeker.

We have a handful of interior linemen going into this next offseason from which we should expect an improved interior for 2024.
 
Number19 said:
Come the off season he'll likely be back at center. The only reason he's at LG is there's no one else. It's crazy, but we have a play where he pulls to the right and blocks the DE. Does a pretty good job of it. But his natural position is back at center.
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Agree but I did see a suggestion 2-3 weeks ago with Houston selecting Sedrick Van Pran round 3.
 
Number19 said:
There's something to be said for Juice remaining at Guard. Going back and comparing their Combine workouts, Juice is the better athlete. Having now seen how the Texans pull their guard on some run plays, Juice may be the better of the two.

But still, we drafted Juice for Center, we traded back up into the 2nd round to get him, and we have Green2, a natural LG who played ZBS in college, coming back from IR. And Green1 will be back in camp, although I'm not having any expectations for his return.

Mason is entrenced at RG, but perhaps his starting position could be challenged by Patterson and Broeker.

We have a handful of interior linemen going into this next offseason from which we should expect an improved interior for 2024.
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I'm thinking Green, Patterson, Juice will be battling it out for the C/LG spots. May the best man win.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I had to grab this Slowick quote from the Houston Chronicle article that someone posted:

“The No. 1 thing is this offensive line imposing its will. It is a banged-up group, now without one of its highest-paid players in Tytus Howard, who is out for the season with a knee injury.”

I get the feeling that Slowick doesn’t give two shites about a ZBS or Power Blocking Scheme….all he wants is his OL in either scheme to absolutely put their max effort in imposing their will on defenses so it opens the requisite holes to maximize the run games success. This success can’t rely on 3 or 4 of the 5…..it must have all 5 on board with this mindset.

I’m not going to get into naming players again, but I’m not a fan of finesse players on the offensive line. This group, like the DL and LB’ers have to possess the attitude that they will destroy the man in front of them and continue to find the next player who must be removed from the play. This is the attitude in your trench players that makes media types find nicknames to identify these units.
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I’ll name them. Tunsil is a *****! His effort in the run game is disgraceful. Titus isn’t far behind. We have to get more athletic on the interior. Our entire OL sucks out in space. It’s a waste of time pulling anyone that’s at Guard. Imagine how good Stroud would look if we had a good run game.
 
2024….the starting OL should look like this, mostly b/c of contract obligations:

LT- Tunsil
LG- Scruggs
OC- Patterson
RG- Mason
RT- Howard

Trying to crack the starting unit:
LG- Green, Kenyon

Trying to fill out the depth chart:
OC- Deiter
OG- Broeker
OC- Eiselen
OC- Thomas
OC- Morrissey
OT- Zierer
OG- Green, Kendrick

2024 NFL Draft…..Developmental OT
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
2024….the starting OL should look like this, mostly b/c of contract obligations:

LT- Tunsil
LG- Scruggs
OC- Patterson
RG- Mason
RT- Howard

Trying to crack the starting unit:
LG- Green, Kenyon

Trying to fill out the depth chart:
OC- Deiter
OG- Broeker
OC- Eiselen
OC- Thomas
OC- Morrissey
OT- Zierer
OG- Green, Kendrick

2024 NFL Draft…..Developmental OT
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You’re not looking to upgrade at all?
 
TheRealJoker said:
The upgrades are on IR.
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Not in the sense that I intended my question. Guys on our IR are guys we already have. Upgrade means to replace. You aren’t looking to upgrade any of this projected starting five? If not… phew… we’d be in for a tough year again.
 
NitroGSXR said:
Not in the sense that I intended my question. Guys on our IR are guys we already have. Upgrade means to replace. You aren’t looking to upgrade any of this projected starting five? If not… phew… we’d be in for a tough year again.
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I think he would but he took the contract obligations into consideration. Looking at that list, we have used a ton of resources trying to shore up LG and OC. :wow:
 
NitroGSXR said:
You’re not looking to upgrade at all?
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That can only happen in the draft. The current contract obligations to Tunsil, Howard, and Mason will keep all 3 in Houston for 2024.

Tunsil couldn’t be moved until the end of the 2025 season. Howard could be moved at the end of 2024, but his 10M+ Dead Cap hit could keep him around in 2025 if he has a healthy and productive season. Mason could be moved after the 2024 season via trade for some picks b/c the team is pretty deep at OG.
 
NitroGSXR said:
Not in the sense that I intended my question. Guys on our IR are guys we already have. Upgrade means to replace. You aren’t looking to upgrade any of this projected starting five? If not… phew… we’d be in for a tough year again.
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The projected starting 5 never played together even in camp.

Jarrett Patterson, Kendrick Green and Nick Broeker are all on rookie contracts for 2024 and Patterson/Green could possibly compete to start.

Kenyon Green obviously under contract and could compete to start.

Tunsil, Howard and Mason are already entrenched at their starting spots. Scruggs looks like he’ll have another. So the last starting spot appears to be between the Greens and Patterson.

They could still use a swing OT. In a perfect world they re-sign Fant. I’m not looking to invest anything more than a day 3 pick/vet swing tackle contract into the OL this offseason.

I think the most important upgrade is everyone learning the system AND getting reps together to gel.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
2024….the starting OL should look like this, mostly b/c of contract obligations:

LT- Tunsil
LG- Scruggs
OC- Patterson
RG- Mason
RT- Howard

Trying to crack the starting unit:
LG- Green, Kenyon

Trying to fill out the depth chart:
OC- Deiter
OG- Broeker
OC- Eiselen
OC- Thomas
OC- Morrissey
OT- Zierer
OG- Green, Kendrick

2024 NFL Draft…..Developmental OT
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From what I've seen and read, I'm thinking Kendrick Green will be at LG to start the season. He was trending up in the three games he started and against Pittsburg graded an elite 80.5 in pass blocking. Juice will win out at Center.
 
NitroGSXR said:
Yeah that’s what I thought. One of the worst this season behind Deiter. We won’t want to resign him or do we?
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Number19 said:
I wouldn't think so.
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He had practically no practice time. He's better than Heck by a wide margin

edit: Jones had 227 snaps (started 1st 3 games) and allowed only 1 sack. PFF stats be damned, that's not bad
 
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JB said:
Heck
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Howard should be the starting RT next yr. Heck should be let go and like I said I would keep Jones as the swing OT.

I was just wondering out of the projected starting 5 next yr, who Nitro would like an upgrade from?

Tunsil/Scruggs Patterson or Green at LG/Patterson/Scruggs at Center/Mason/Howard.
 
Heck has played mostly RT. Jones mostly LT. Both have played some on the opposite side.Jones had an outstanding year in '22 for Arizonia, both pass blocking and run blocking. If he could duplicate this at RT for the Texans, it just might be a serious upgrade. I believe both are free agents. Jones likely has the higher upside. I'd go with him.
 
steelbtexan said:
Who do you want to upgrade from? Keep in mind they're paying Howard 18 mil next yr.
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Just to clarify: $19 million is Howard's cap figure but his base is only 14 as he has already been paid his signing bonus. I am sure that is what you meant but if traded for even a round seven, there will be a cap savings of $5.5 million. The issue would be if another team would take a risk as two teams did on Derek Newton. Of course, he was not traded I I R C but a pick up.


I do expect Howard to be on the roster when preseason begins but I do hope that Caserio picks up a replacement.
 
The upgrade I want is at
steelbtexan said:
Howard should be the starting RT next yr. Heck should be let go and like I said I would keep Jones as the swing OT.

I was just wondering out of the projected starting 5 next yr, who Nitro would like an upgrade from?

Tunsil/Scruggs Patterson or Green at LG/Patterson/Scruggs at Center/Mason/Howard.
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Well… you have to keep in mind that my football IQ is nothing like many of you guys. So I keep my outlook simple. The way I see it… our starting rotation is this…

Tunsil/void/Scruggs/Mason/Howard

we need an upgrade at LG and RT. I think Howard can and/or should be traded.

Josh Jones was definitely thrown into the fire by being forced to play LT and then horribly at RG. I was traumatized by his shoddy play there but it’s comforting to read JB’s clarification on what Jones has actually given up. We have to keep in mind that a lot of this “outstanding” blocking is a result of Stroud’s keen awareness in the pocket. The young man knows where his defenders are.
 
Here we are at the end of the regular season and surprisingly, for all the negativity, and for all the injuries we had to contend with, the Texans have a top 10 OL, per PFF.

PFF grades and ranks OLs by pass blocking efficiency. They do not rank by run blocking efficiency.

We rank 11th (tied) for sacks given up with 19.

We rank 11th (tied) for hits given up with 22.

We rank 16th for hurries given up with 124.

Overall we rank 10th with a pass blocking efficiency of 85.4%.

With the players coming back from IR, if we can resign our key FAs, we're looking pretty good going into the off season and should see improvement next year.
 
Number19 said:
Here we are at the end of the regular season and surprisingly, for all the negativity, and for all the injuries we had to contend with, the Texans have a top 10 OL, per PFF.

PFF grades and ranks OLs by pass blocking efficiency. They do not rank by run blocking efficiency.

We rank 11th (tied) for sacks given up with 19.

We rank 11th (tied) for hits given up with 22.

We rank 16th for hurries given up with 124.

Overall we rank 10th with a pass blocking efficiency of 85.4%.

With the players coming back from IR, if we can resign our key FAs, we're looking pretty good going into the off season and should see improvement next year.
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Can’t think of assistant coaches who have done a better job than the Texans OL. To overcome all the adversity and still field a competent unit is incredible.
 
steelbtexan said:
Howard should be the starting RT next yr. Heck should be let go and like I said I would keep Jones as the swing OT.

I was just wondering out of the projected starting 5 next yr, who Nitro would like an upgrade from?

Tunsil/Scruggs Patterson or Green at LG/Patterson/Scruggs at Center/Mason/Howard.
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Will Howard be healthy? Big question going into the offseason.
 
I don’t get the oline hate here. I wouldn’t change anything at all. Other than a possible business decision on Fant. He may have earned a starter level contract elsewhere. Good for him. My only concern is health, and that’s more about Lady Luck than anything else. It doesn’t seem possible to be this unlucky two years in a row. Give me reasonable health, and this oline will rock next year.
 
Porky said:
I don’t get the oline hate here. I wouldn’t change anything at all. Other than a possible business decision on Fant. He may have earned a starter level contract elsewhere. Good for him. My only concern is health, and that’s more about Lady Luck than anything else. It doesn’t seem possible to be this unlucky two years in a row. Give me reasonable health, and this oline will rock next year.
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For me with the o line, it is not only about the health but will those same players have the same health issues as in 2023 or related ones? Examples are knee injuries and groin tears.
 
badboy said:
Your thoughts as why Jones hasn't beaten out Heck at right tackle?
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When the CBA doesn't allow full pad practices, how do you "win" the starting position? But more to the point, Jones is proven at LT, not at RT. If resigned, we'll see if he can be an effective swing tackle.

The limitation of full pad practices may also be one reason Broeker has not been able to prove himself. He's another one who'll benefit from an off season with the Texans.
 
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