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Texans 1.3 Pick Derek Stingley Jr.

All the time he needs. There is no rush.

I'm on the fence about this. While we want him 100% and can afford to wait. When is it time to say "should have taken Sauce" this kid isn't going to stay healthy.

Just curious. I want him to pan out. However, I also see stats and minus his freshman year...Sauce was better. Can he be back to that level? I hope. Who was our opinion B had he somehow got taken before our pick? I highly think it was Sauce.
 
I'm on the fence about this. While we want him 100% and can afford to wait. When is it time to say "should have taken Sauce" this kid isn't going to stay healthy.

Just curious. I want him to pan out. However, I also see stats and minus his freshman year...Sauce was better. Can he be back to that level? I hope. Who was our opinion B had he somehow got taken before our pick? I highly think it was Sauce.

I don’t think we can make a fair comparison between the two until after 2-3 years.
 
I'm on the fence about this. While we want him 100% and can afford to wait. When is it time to say "should have taken Sauce" this kid isn't going to stay healthy.

Just curious. I want him to pan out. However, I also see stats and minus his freshman year...Sauce was better. Can he be back to that level? I hope. Who was our opinion B had he somehow got taken before our pick? I highly think it was Sauce.
There’s nothing wrong with thinking this way. I’m sure if the Jets picked 3rd & the Texans 4th, the Jets would have taken Gardner & the Texans would have taken Stingley.

So you’re not alone preferring Gardner.

But what’s the point saying, “We should have….”

Not going to change anything. Might enrich your fan experience. But I don’t see how. Wouldn’t make me feel any better.

Not going to make any of us think you should have been in the WarRoom instead of Nick & his 20 years of experience, or Lovie & his 20 years of experience. Not saying that’s what you want, just thinking out loud. What’s the point of saying something like that

Especially before the 1sr preseason game.
 
There’s nothing wrong with thinking this way. I’m sure if the Jets picked 3rd & the Texans 4th, the Jets would have taken Gardner & the Texans would have taken Stingley.

So you’re not alone preferring Gardner.

But what’s the point saying, “We should have….”

Not going to change anything. Might enrich your fan experience. But I don’t see how. Wouldn’t make me feel any better.

Not going to make any of us think you should have been in the WarRoom instead of Nick & his 20 years of experience, or Lovie & his 20 years of experience. Not saying that’s what you want, just thinking out loud. What’s the point of saying something like that

Especially before the 1sr preseason game.

I didn't personally have a choice. I liked both of them. Neither did I have at #3. I had a DE if I was the one making the decision. So it was 1a and 1b. 1a was picked and 1b so far is the better choice it appears. What happens in a few weeks or this time next year who knows. I hope I can say 1a was an awesome pick.

We shall see...

My post was a serious question of if he doesn't play much and has issues...how long before fans get really upset
 
So it was 1a and 1b. 1a was picked and 1b so far is the better choice it appears
Based on practice?

Not a game, not a game. We're talking about practice.

not a game.
My post was a serious question of if he doesn't play much and has issues...how long before fans get really upset
Again, I don't understand. We're talking in the context of having him ready to play at a future date. Not complicating the known issue.

You're responding to a guy (Lucky) who has consistently stated this season is about the process & not winning. So from his pov there's no rush.

Stingley not playing at all in 2022 is more beneficial for the Texans than him being put into service too early & changing what might be a minor issue into a major career ending issue.

That's not to say anyone wants Stingley to sit out the season.

That's not to say Stingley won't play this season. Or that we should be OK with anything less than elite performance when he is allowed to play.

When can we get upset about Stingley not playing? When we're one competent CB away from competing for a Super Bowl.

I'm thinking that's going to be 2024.
 
Just curious. I want him to pan out. However, I also see stats and minus his freshman year...Sauce was better. Can he be back to that level? I hope. Who was our opinion B had he somehow got taken before our pick? I highly think it was Sauce.

freshmen year competition

I can draft a guy who played players from Ohio State, Miami, Marshall, Ucf, Houston, Tulsa, East Carolina, Connecticut, South Florida, Temple, Memphis x2, Boston college
or
I could draft the guy who’s locked down nfl rookie receivers from Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc, also while lining up against a top 5 pick in practice everyday.

Sauce had 3 picks against that competition while Stingley had 6. I’m thrilled with our pick. A lot of hype around sauce and he still has to prove himself
 
freshmen year competition

I can draft a guy who played players from Ohio State, Miami, Marshall, Ucf, Houston, Tulsa, East Carolina, Connecticut, South Florida, Temple, Memphis x2, Boston college
or
I could draft the guy who’s locked down nfl rookie receivers from Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc, also while lining up against a top 5 pick in practice everyday.

Sauce had 3 picks against that competition while Stingley had 6. I’m thrilled with our pick. A lot of hype around sauce and he still has to prove himself
To be fair both have to prove themselves and they're starting from about the same place except sauce is healthy and stingly has an uncertain future with his lisFrank which will not get better
 
Based on practice?

Not a game, not a game. We're talking about practice.

not a game.

Again, I don't understand. We're talking in the context of having him ready to play at a future date. Not complicating the known issue.

You're responding to a guy (Lucky) who has consistently stated this season is about the process & not winning. So from his pov there's no rush.

Stingley not playing at all in 2022 is more beneficial for the Texans than him being put into service too early & changing what might be a minor issue into a major career ending issue.

That's not to say anyone wants Stingley to sit out the season.

That's not to say Stingley won't play this season. Or that we should be OK with anything less than elite performance when he is allowed to play.

When can we get upset about Stingley not playing? When we're one competent CB away from competing for a Super Bowl.

I'm thinking that's going to be 2024.
I am hoping that we draft at least one more Elite quarterback in 2023 to match with and if necessary replace Stingley going forward.
 
To be fair both have to prove themselves and they're starting from about the same place except sauce is healthy and stingly has an uncertain future with his lisFrank which will not get better

There’s a list of players who had there best seasons and we’re still productive after injuring there lisfranc. Julio Jones, Brian Westbrook and Le’veon Bell just to name a few. I don’t get this logic in scrutinizing Stingley.

Texans made the right selection by taking the most talented db. You expect a player to be at there best sooner or later and he was deserving top 5 pick unlike Sauce who rarely faced nfl talent wr’s. Everything right now is “ifs” let him play first before you bury him?
 
Texans made the right selection by taking the most talented db. You expect a player to be at there best sooner or later and he was deserving top 5 pick unlike Sauce who rarely faced nfl talent wr’s. Everything right now is “ifs” let him play first before you bury him?
Not only that it’s building up to a Gardner vs Stingley thing where we’ll end up hating one or bagging on the other.

When we should be enjoying to awesome young talents in the NFL
 
freshmen year competition

I can draft a guy who played players from Ohio State, Miami, Marshall, Ucf, Houston, Tulsa, East Carolina, Connecticut, South Florida, Temple, Memphis x2, Boston college
or
I could draft the guy who’s locked down nfl rookie receivers from Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc, also while lining up against a top 5 pick in practice everyday.

Sauce had 3 picks against that competition while Stingley had 6. I’m thrilled with our pick. A lot of hype around sauce and he still has to prove himself

I could draft a guy who's been healthy and locked down whoever he's faced consistently for 3 straight years
or
I could draft a guy who shut down those top level opponents 3 years ago, who hasn't had a pick in the last 12 games he's played, who also has injury concerns.

Works both ways.
 
I could draft a guy who's been healthy and locked down whoever he's faced consistently for 3 straight years
or
I could draft a guy who shut down those top level opponents 3 years ago, who hasn't had a pick in the last 12 games he's played, who also has injury concerns.

Works both ways.
It’s amazing that teams spend so much money with player personnel & scouting departments. Watch a couple of games, review a few statsheets. So simple.
 
It’s amazing that teams spend so much money with player personnel & scouting departments. Watch a couple of games, review a few statsheets. So simple.
Who said it was simple? Just pointing out the other side of it.
There's 1st round busts all the time. UDFA's become All Pros. Lions took Charles Rogers over Andre Johnson. There is no exact science to this.
 
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There’s a list of players who had there best seasons and we’re still productive after injuring there lisfranc. Julio Jones, Brian Westbrook and Le’veon Bell just to name a few. I don’t get this logic in scrutinizing Stingley.

Texans made the right selection by taking the most talented db. You expect a player to be at there best sooner or later and he was deserving top 5 pick unlike Sauce who rarely faced nfl talent wr’s. Everything right now is “ifs” let him play first before you bury him?
IIRC, Le'Veon Bell and Jacoby Jones were not broken foot Lisfranc injuries Both had mcl's of the knee; Not saying not severe but not Stingley injuries either. Westbrook did have a pro bowl season again if I remember correctly in 2007 His injury was Lisfranc sprain not a complete break like Derek's. There are fans and there are cheerleaders. I am watching the game tonight with two of the latter. I consider myself one of the former.

Logic in scrutinizing our players? Kidding right? Over the years we have scrutinized everybody from the Andre johnson, JJ watt, nuke hopkins, well you get the picture.


Evaluating NFL or college football players is not only about who they are competing against but how they compete. You seem to be comparing the Freshman season of one that we drafted against the last season of the one we did not. Again not a fair comparison. Players May attain their Peak but we do have to look at the injuries that impact them along the way. You seem to not be doing that either.

Criticizing does not mean we are burying anyone. All of us want to see all the players play and hopefully at their best. To ignore what's in front of our face is ridiculous in my opinion.
 
I could draft a guy who's been healthy and locked down whoever he's faced consistently for 3 straight years
or
I could draft a guy who shut down those top level opponents 3 years ago, who hasn't had a pick in the last 12 games he's played, who also has injury concerns.

Works both ways.
You’re not seeing the bigger picture.

You have a company. You’re looking to hire a coder to create your website. Two candidates, A and B.

Candidate A has no experience but has watched YouTube videos and is confident they can get the job done.

Candidate B went to school for the skill, has experience and previously accomplished the task with a different company.

I’m taking Candidate B. This isn’t rocket science man. Turn on the film and watch the tape. It’s certain players where you say, man he was born to play football. Stingley is one of those players. Sure it may seem as if he’s on the decline after his injury in college but if you can grasp what he did his freshmen year, nothing should matter after that. It’s talented nfl dbs who spend there entire college career trying to accomplish what he did in just that 1 season. It’s two things you don’t pass up in the draft and that’s generational qb’s and db’s.
 
You’re not seeing the bigger picture.

You have a company. You’re looking to hire a coder to create your website. Two candidates, A and B.

Candidate A has no experience but has watched YouTube videos and is confident they can get the job done.

Candidate B went to school for the skill, has experience and previously accomplished the task with a different company.

I’m taking Candidate B. This isn’t rocket science man. Turn on the film and watch the tape. It’s certain players where you say, man he was born to play football. Stingley is one of those players. Sure it may seem as if he’s on the decline after his injury in college but if you can grasp what he did his freshmen year, nothing should matter after that. It’s talented nfl dbs who spend there entire college career trying to accomplish what he did in just that 1 season. It’s two things you don’t pass up in the draft and that’s generational qb’s and db’s.
Does candidate B have a broken hand that may have healed but that will more than likely decrease his ability to use any type of keyboard in the future?
 
Does candidate B have a broken hand that may have healed but that will more than likely decrease his ability to use any type of keyboard in the future?
It’s a non issue to me. It’s not like the Texans didn’t know. They looked into it & we’re comfortable with it. He’s looked good in every workout.

they’re being cautious, but it appears the kid can play.

Now if it were an Achilles, I would understand.
 
IIRC, Le'Veon Bell and Jacoby Jones were not broken foot Lisfranc injuries Both had mcl's of the knee; Not saying not severe but not Stingley injuries either. Westbrook did have a pro bowl season again if I remember correctly in 2007 His injury was Lisfranc sprain not a complete break like Derek's. There are fans and there are cheerleaders. I am watching the game tonight with two of the latter. I consider myself one of the former.

Logic in scrutinizing our players? Kidding right? Over the years we have scrutinized everybody from the Andre johnson, JJ watt, nuke hopkins, well you get the picture.


Evaluating NFL or college football players is not only about who they are competing against but how they compete. You seem to be comparing the Freshman season of one that we drafted against the last season of the one we did not. Again not a fair comparison. Players May attain their Peak but we do have to look at the injuries that impact them along the way. You seem to not be doing that either.

Criticizing does not mean we are burying anyone. All of us want to see all the players play and hopefully at their best. To ignore what's in front of our face is ridiculous in my opinion.

I get it. I just think guys are making a big deal out of something that’s natural. Injuries are apart of the game. I brought up his freshmen year because you have to understand. His coach or supporting cast is in his ear telling him he doesn’t have to prove himself after his freshmen season. He’s proven he can be the best defender on the field with men at the age of 17-18. Why try to go hard and risk more injuries for college? No thank you. I’m getting drafted top 5 based off one season where I actually tried. Why would I try my sophomore and junior year if I got an injury already. Saving my skills for the pro’s

LSU-Auburn-Stingley-INT2.gif
 
freshmen year competition

I can draft a guy who played players from Ohio State, Miami, Marshall, Ucf, Houston, Tulsa, East Carolina, Connecticut, South Florida, Temple, Memphis x2, Boston college
or
I could draft the guy who’s locked down nfl rookie receivers from Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc, also while lining up against a top 5 pick in practice everyday.

Sauce had 3 picks against that competition while Stingley had 6. I’m thrilled with our pick. A lot of hype around sauce and he still has to prove himself

Did either allow a TD? While getting the ball back is great. I would rather not have the other team score at all. In any case, people are trying to compare them when neither has played 1 live NFL snap. My question was very simple and something I have heard on radio shows and podcasts.
Was Sauce the better choice of the 2 based on his not allowing a TD, size and the fact that only 1 of them is not recovering from a major injury.

I already said it, but I will again. I don’t know of the 2 which I would have taken. I didn't have any favorite in anyway. I was a little bit surprised on draft day because it was Stingley selected. Yet nobody had heard he was in town and the medical issue. Sauce was documented in town and no medical.
 
There’s nothing wrong with thinking this way. I’m sure if the Jets picked 3rd & the Texans 4th, the Jets would have taken Gardner & the Texans would have taken Stingley.

So you’re not alone preferring Gardner.

But what’s the point saying, “We should have….”

Not going to change anything. Might enrich your fan experience. But I don’t see how. Wouldn’t make me feel any better.

Not going to make any of us think you should have been in the WarRoom instead of Nick & his 20 years of experience, or Lovie & his 20 years of experience. Not saying that’s what you want, just thinking out loud. What’s the point of saying something like that

Especially before the 1sr preseason game.
So posters shouldn't say they would've taken player X over player Y because there's nothing that can be done to change the pick? SMDH
 
So posters shouldn't say they would've taken player X over player Y because there's nothing that can be done to change the pick? SMDH
There’s that reading comprehension thing. I’m not saying what he should or shouldn’t say. I’m asking what’s the point. What is your goal for saying it?
 
You’re not seeing the bigger picture.

You have a company. You’re looking to hire a coder to create your website. Two candidates, A and B.

Candidate A has no experience but has watched YouTube videos and is confident they can get the job done.

Candidate B went to school for the skill, has experience and previously accomplished the task with a different company.

I’m taking Candidate B. This isn’t rocket science man. Turn on the film and watch the tape. It’s certain players where you say, man he was born to play football. Stingley is one of those players. Sure it may seem as if he’s on the decline after his injury in college but if you can grasp what he did his freshmen year, nothing should matter after that. It’s talented nfl dbs who spend there entire college career trying to accomplish what he did in just that 1 season. It’s two things you don’t pass up in the draft and that’s generational qb’s and db’s.

Except in this instance Candidate A actually has some experience and isn’t just watching videos. So bad analogy there.

And have you turned on the tape and watched him the last couple of years. Ain’t the same as ‘19.
 
There’s that reading comprehension thing. I’m not saying what he should or shouldn’t say. I’m asking what’s the point. What is your goal for saying it?
What's the point of anything

Is that the point you're trying to make?
 
competition
You’re not seeing the bigger picture.

You have a company. You’re looking to hire a coder to create your website. Two candidates, A and B.

Candidate A has no experience but has watched YouTube videos and is confident they can get the job done.

Candidate B went to school for the skill, has experience and previously accomplished the task with a different company.

I’m taking Candidate B. This isn’t rocket science man. Turn on the film and watch the tape. It’s certain players where you say, man he was born to play football. Stingley is one of those players. Sure it may seem as if he’s on the decline after his injury in college but if you can grasp what he did his freshmen year, nothing should matter after that. It’s talented nfl dbs who spend there entire college career trying to accomplish what he did in just that 1 season. It’s two things you don’t pass up in the draft and that’s generational qb’s and db’s.
As a former coder myself from back in the day ( and I mean IBM refrigerator-sized back in the day mainframe computers), I'm totally intrigued with your analogy with the two programmers.
But see man you seem to be doing the same thing the Caserio-Smith combo is which is to minimize if not almost completley ignore the injury history and therefor the risk of reinjury to Stingley.
I wish we could get a real explanation here because it seem so obvious that there is a real peril with the Stingley pick being a huge disappointment because of his injury history. Maye it's as D-Tex says: Caserio & Smith think the risk is worth it because Stinkley is a generational talent and head& shoulders talent wise above any other corner in this Draft.
Or maybe they just think the risk of reinjury is grossly overstated because of their experiences with certain players who had a similar injury history?
 
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the same thing the Caserio-Smith combo is which is to minimize if not almost completley ignore the injury history and therefor the risk of reinjury to Stingley
This line of thinking is based on an error built on an error. It does not follow that because Stingley experienced a broken lisfranc he will experience another broken lisfranc.

It's like a broken femur. Just because you broke it once, it doesn't mean you are likely to break it again.

I wish we could get a real explanation here because it seem so obvious that there is a real peril with the Stingley pick being a huge disappointment because of his injury history
The concern is out there, but unwarranted.

The real concern is the level of play first seen in his rookie season hasn't been seen since largely due to medical unavailability. & I say "medical unavailability" because far as I know his absence in 2020 was due to illness, not injury.

Then 2021 was the Lisfranc, early in the season. Again, the concern with Lisfranc isn't about reinjury. The main concern is degeneration. His foot is not the same & will get worse from here on out.

The question is how does his "new" foot affect his ability to play. So far we've been told the effect is minimal. Even if that is true, the question is then how long will that be the case. In Schaub's case it wasn't long. In Stingley's case it could be three (pulled out of thin air) years, could be six.

Like Schaub, the effect won't necessarily be in reinjury, but most likely reduced performance. In Stingley's case, it might result in endless soft tissue issues due to overcompensation issues in his lower body, groin, hamstrings, quads, calfs, ankle, etc...

But again we might not see those issues for a couple of years.
 
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competition
As a former coder myself from back in the day ( and I mean IBM refrigerator-sized back in the day mainframe computers), I'm totally intrigued with your analogy with the two programmers.
But see man you seem to be doing the same thing the Caserio-Smith combo is which is to minimize if not almost completley ignore the injury history and therefor the risk of reinjury to Stingley.
I wish we could get a real explanation here because it seem so obvious that there is a real peril with the Stingley pick being a huge disappointment because of his injury history. Maye it's as D-Tex says: Caserio & Smith think the risk is worth it because Stinkley is a generational talent and head& shoulders talent wise above any other corner in this Draft.
Or maybe they just think the risk of reinjury is grossly overstated because of their experiences with certain players who had a similar injury history?
Learned that JoJo broke his foot 4 times during his career.
 
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Let’s clear the air. I respect Sauce game and I’m not putting him down because we didn’t select him. I analyzed both prospects very closely before the draft. Stingley injury doesn’t bother me because injuries are apart of the game. Players get hurt in college and some go on to have phenomenal careers in the league

2017 draft Marshon Lattimore and Johnathan Allen were attacked for there injury concerns in college. I guarantee there team fans aren’t complaining anymore.

2018 college season Bosa and D.K Metcalf hung it up after an injury. One word to describe those guys. DOGS!!!

2020 Tee Higgins. Starting to see the picture? I can start from 2010 and point out rookies with injury concerns who turned out to have success in the pros.

The Texans are very lucky to have Stingley. First comparison that came to my mind watching the kid was Stephon Gilmore. Stingley a physical corner with ball skills who’s not overly aggressive at defending routes. Far as Sauce, I see an Antre Rolle type of player. He’s probably going to have a great career but the Texans needed a guy who can lock down one side of the field and the #1 receiver. They made the right selection and we just have to wait and see. We’re either going to hit the lottery and we lost money. Hopefully Stingley will have a healthy career because with his skill set he has the potential to be a hall of famer.
 
Let’s clear the air. I respect Sauce game and I’m not putting him down because we didn’t select him. I analyzed both prospects very closely before the draft. Stingley injury doesn’t bother me because injuries are apart of the game. Players get hurt in college and some go on to have phenomenal careers in the league
It's not just that there was an injury, it's the type of injury. We've seen a Lisfranc injury crush our dreams before. Stingley will not be the player he could have been (without the lisfranc) in five years
 
It's not just that there was an injury, it's the type of injury. We've seen a Lisfranc injury crush our dreams before. Stingley will not be the player he could have been (without the lisfranc) in five years

You mentioned this injury has crushed our dreams in the past. Are you referring to a 31 year old Matt Schaub at the time? If so, I don’t think its a fair comparison to a athletic rookie who’s 21. 28 players (11 offensive, 17 defensive) who suffered Lisfranc injuries between 2000 and 2010, only two never returned to NFL competition. Most nfl players successfully return from Lisfranc injury, but it takes time. I think guys have every right to be concerned. I look at Evan Engram who’s career seems to be on the decline after the injury but I also look at Travis Etienne (Jags rb) who injured his lisfranc last season and looks pretty good in his first preseason game. I will remain optimistic, I just have to wait and see. I still believe the Texans made the right choice
 
Except in this instance Candidate A actually has some experience and isn’t just watching videos. So bad analogy there.

And have you turned on the tape and watched him the last couple of years. Ain’t the same as ‘19.

If you are saying his game film shows he isn't playing at the same level as his freshman year. You are correct. Some say he had a slight injury, I have also heard his foot injury started after freshman year and just got worse with him playing through it.

I really hope he recovers 100% he has a ton of talent. But, if he can't make it back to his old self (in and around freshman year) then we don't know what to expect
 
Except in this instance Candidate A actually has some experience and isn’t just watching videos. So bad analogy there.

And have you turned on the tape and watched him the last couple of years. Ain’t the same as ‘19.
Lovie disagrees with you.
 
Stingley is an injured has-been who, if he does live up to his rating, will probably never play a full season the rest of his life.

Not worth the 3rd pick in the draft.

And it is up to Stingley to change my mind, not this message board.
Agreed
 
Stingley is an injured has-been who, if he does live up to his rating, will probably never play a full season the rest of his life.

Not worth the 3rd pick in the draft.

And it is up to Stingley to change my mind, not this message board.

I agree. Get freshman year and then injury he played with and finally got surgery. So all we have is a Revis like talent who is not 100% yet. Will he return to 75% somewhere between it and 90% to 100%. Which is still a great CB with his speed and ball skills or is he average with missing games from the foot. This is what he has to prove to the fans. That he is 100%, that the injury is not reoccurring and he is still as elite as his freshman year. Anything short of that is going to have everyone debating over his #3 overall pick status.
 
You mentioned this injury has crushed our dreams in the past. Are you referring to a 31 year old Matt Schaub at the time? If so, I don’t think its a fair comparison to a athletic rookie who’s 21. 28 players (11 offensive, 17 defensive) who suffered Lisfranc injuries between 2000 and 2010, only two never returned to NFL competition. Most nfl players successfully return from Lisfranc injury, but it takes time. I think guys have every right to be concerned. I look at Evan Engram who’s career seems to be on the decline after the injury but I also look at Travis Etienne (Jags rb) who injured his lisfranc last season and looks pretty good in his first preseason game. I will remain optimistic, I just have to wait and see. I still believe the Texans made the right choice
Hey man I love your optimism, and I'll just leave it at that, but gosh so many things to look forward to with this team and it feels
like the dawn of new a day. And Ok sure there will be disappointments too.
Onward !
 
You mentioned this injury has crushed our dreams in the past. Are you referring to a 31 year old Matt Schaub at the time? If so, I don’t think its a fair comparison to a athletic rookie who’s 21. 28 players (11 offensive, 17 defensive) who suffered Lisfranc injuries between 2000 and 2010, only two never returned to NFL competition. Most nfl players successfully return from Lisfranc injury, but it takes time. I think guys have every right to be concerned. I look at Evan Engram who’s career seems to be on the decline after the injury but I also look at Travis Etienne (Jags rb) who injured his lisfranc last season and looks pretty good in his first preseason game. I will remain optimistic, I just have to wait and see. I still believe the Texans made the right choice
That study didn't differentiate between injuries requiring surgery and those not requiring surgery. From what @CloakNNNdagger has said, not all lisfranc injuries are equal.
All any of us can do is wait and see. I disagree with you on the Texans making the right pick, but I certainly hope to be proven wrong.
 
That study didn't differentiate between injuries requiring surgery and those not requiring surgery. From what @CloakNNNdagger has said, not all lisfranc injuries are equal.
All any of us can do is wait and see. I disagree with you on the Texans making the right pick, but I certainly hope to be proven wrong.
But CnnD represents this as one of the more severe cases. IIRC he's not optimistic about Stingley being very good.
 
This line of thinking is based on an error built on an error. It does not follow that because Stingley experienced a broken lisfranc he will experience another broken lisfranc.

It's like a broken femur. Just because you broke it once, it doesn't mean you are likely to break it again.


The concern is out there, but unwarranted.

The real concern is the level of play first seen in his rookie season hasn't been seen since largely due to medical unavailability. & I say "medical unavailability" because far as I know his absence in 2020 was due to illness, not injury.

Then 2021 was the Lisfranc, early in the season. Again, the concern with Lisfranc isn't about reinjury. The main concern is degeneration. His foot is not the same & will get worse from here on out.

The question is how does his "new" foot affect his ability to play. So far we've been told the effect is minimal. Even if that is true, the question is then how long will that be the case. In Schaub's case it wasn't long. In Stingley's case it could be three (pulled out of thin air) years, could be six.

Like Schaub, the effect won't necessarily be in reinjury, but most likely reduced performance. In Stingley's case, it might result in endless soft tissue issues due to overcompensation issues in his lower body, groin, hamstrings, quads, calfs, ankle, etc...

But again we might not see those issues for a couple of years.

True. But, according to what has been said 2020 was an injury. If it was the Lisfranc, and he was trying to play on it, he could have been doing even more damage. According to the official reports it was not the Lisfranc. Which is believable, but someone is going to say it's odd it was the same leg he had an ankle injury in 2020. Which he played with/through.

Taken from The Sporting News:


That is the latest injury Stingley has had to overcome. He was also kept out of three games in his sophomore campaign. He missed the season opener vs. Mississippi State after being hospitalized with a non-COVID-19 illness, and he sat out the final two games of the season, vs. Florida and Ole Miss, with an ankle sprain he suffered while trying to defend a touchdown reception by Alabama's Devonta Smith in Week 11.

Stingley played through an ankle sprain against Missouri on Oct. 10, 2020, and missed most of the second half against Arkansas on Nov. 21 of that year after appearing to take a hit to the head on a punt return in the third quarter.

Good information right here, also some photos of the injury (textbook style) that helps explain it very well:





2020 – Ankle Sprain – Oct 10 vs Missouri. An ankle sprain limited Stingley for a few weeks.

2020 – Ankle Sprain – Nov 21 vs Arkansas. The ankle was re-injured in this game during a punt return. He missed the majority of the game but was able to return for the next two games before shutting down for the final 2 games of the season.

2021 – Left Lisfranc Sprain – Aug, Preseason. Stingley suffered a Lisfranc sprain during the first day of practice but managed to return for the team’s season opener.

2021 – Left Lisfranc Sprain (surgery) – Sept. Stingley re-injured his foot from the preseason in a practice and opted to have surgery. He missed the final 10 games of the season and opted not to participate in the Combine.

Ankle Sprain

The ankle sprain that he suffered and reinjured in 2020 doesn’t appear to be anything to be concerned about. It’s not clear whether this was a low ankle sprain where the outside ligaments of the ankle are injured or whether this was more of a high-ankle sprain where the syndesmosis was injured. Based on the wording that he slipped on a down marker, this leads me to believe that he suffered more of a low ankle sprain that he re-injured several games later on.

Despite being able to play through a low ankle sprain rather quickly, the body still needs time to fully heal the structures damaged. If that healing is disrupted by re-injury, then that could lead to further missed time with a decline in performance for any athlete at any level.

Lisfranc Injury

Lisfranc injuries are an injury to either the ligaments or bones of the midfoot, specifically the medial cuneiform and base of the second metatarsal.

This type of injury occurs due to a simple twist and fall that results in a hyper plantarflexed foot with rotational forces and axial load. To picture this, imagine someone falling on the back of a person’s foot when the foot is flexed downward. While the injury doesn’t have to be as severe, a simple twist and fall that places external rotation and compression to the area could also cause injury. There have also been instances where the foot is stepped on leading to direct trauma to the area and injury occurs.

Following injury, there is difficulty bearing weight, swelling, and tenderness in the localized area. They may have difficulty pushing off the foot during running and visual inspection of the foot may reveal bruising, widening of the midfoot area, or even a noticeable bump. There are not any special tests that can be performed such as seen with an Achilles, ACL, or shoulder labrum that provides a high degree of certainty at the time.

Imaging is completed to assess the severity and correlated with a physical exam. Once the injury is confirmed, the injury can either be immobilized to heal conservatively. If there is a concern for high-level use in athletics, surgery can be performed such as pinning or open reduction internal fixation (ORIF) to the area to re-establish stability for proper healing to either the bones or ligaments. Based on the timeline that Stingley has been on, it appears as though he had ORIF following his injury.

Stingley originally suffered the left Lisfranc injury during the first practice of the preseason in August of 2021. However, he was able to rehab enough to play in the season opener against UCLA. He suited up to play in three games that season before reaggravating the injury in practice the week of September 19th, prior to the Mississippi State game.

He missed the following week versus Auburn before shutting things down. Stingley elected for surgery during the week of October 3rd with an announcement on October 6th. Based on this timeline with the inevitable outcome, it appears as though Stingley had more ligament damage than he attempted to play through. He either had increased widening of the midfoot joint (> 2 mm shift) or he was unable to rehab effectively to play on Saturdays.

Return to Play Outcomes

Knowing the surgery was in early October, Lisfranc repairs take on average 10-11.1 months to return to sport, though can return to normal activities sooner as seen in this rehab protocol. This places Stingley to be fully ready by the time Week 1 of the 2022 NFL season. When looking at the impact that Lisfranc injuries have on performance and draft position, it is not as severe as one would be led to believe.

Those players who suffer a Lisfranc injury do return to play in the NFL at 83 percent up to 90 percent. The research appears to be conflicted on whether this affects performance upon return. Some research indicates there is a decline in performance but is not statistically significant.

Interestingly, other research suggests there is a more notable decline of 21 percent of production in the following first season and starts in fewer games in the following two and three years. It’s noted that this is more likely to be seen in offensive players rather than their defensive counterparts. It’s worth highlighting that this study went on to state using that article that players return to play without adequate recovery. Stingley will have nearly an entire year before playing in a meaningful game.

Career length does not appear to be drastically impacted, though the literature does note that players with a Lisfranc injury going into the NFL Draft are impacted. They are more likely to go undrafted, appear in fewer games (16.9 vs 23.3), have potentially shorter NFL careers (62.5 percent vs 69.6 percent), and have a worse draft position (142 vs 111.3) when compared to controls. Those with a residual >2 mm displacement (41.5 percent) following surgery fared even worse.

Furthermore, long-term studies with an average of 11 years of follow-up showed that there is the possibility of post-traumatic arthritis with 72 percent showing arthritic changes and 54 percent symptomatic. There also isn’t research to suggest that he will be at a greater risk of re-injure the area as seen with other injuries.
 
This line of thinking is based on an error built on an error. It does not follow that because Stingley experienced a broken lisfranc he will experience another broken lisfranc.

It's like a broken femur. Just because you broke it once, it doesn't mean you are likely to break it again.


The concern is out there, but unwarranted.

The real concern is the level of play first seen in his rookie season hasn't been seen since largely due to medical unavailability. & I say "medical unavailability" because far as I know his absence in 2020 was due to illness, not injury.

Then 2021 was the Lisfranc, early in the season. Again, the concern with Lisfranc isn't about reinjury. The main concern is degeneration. His foot is not the same & will get worse from here on out.

The question is how does his "new" foot affect his ability to play. So far we've been told the effect is minimal. Even if that is true, the question is then how long will that be the case. In Schaub's case it wasn't long. In Stingley's case it could be three (pulled out of thin air) years, could be six.

Like Schaub, the effect won't necessarily be in reinjury, but most likely reduced performance. In Stingley's case, it might result in endless soft tissue issues due to overcompensation issues in his lower body, groin, hamstrings, quads, calfs, ankle, etc...

But again we might not see those issues for a couple of years.
My points exactly.. ignore Lisfranc and the ankle sprain and Stingley my guy. I even had a thread on him months ago. I can see Sting matching Sauce his first 2-3 seasons-- maybe and that is what I see Car sterio doing .. betting Sting will be great and worry when foot crops up as issue.
My post from April.
 
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