Except I already drove home the fallacy in that claim.It's not about one game,
It's about how he performs against to tier defenses.
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Except I already drove home the fallacy in that claim.It's not about one game,
It's about how he performs against to tier defenses.
I don't think it was about taking the lick, Watson has shown he can and will do that. He didn't even appear to look at Coutee. What was the progression of his reads? Because to me, Coutee was not his read at all. He looked up top, then immediately looked away without looking at Coutee. Is this a play design? Did he simply miss his read? We will never know for sure. Either way, to me, it comes down to coaching. Either the design sucked or Watson isn't learning how to progress through his reads correctly.
Except I already drove home the fallacy in that claim.
It’s jokes to me. A long with the moderation on the site. I see certain rules apply to certain users. Though, deshaun will put up some good games and carry O’Brien to the playoffs. I’m done with going back and forth. You have raven fans coming here and don’t know what there talking about than you have guys who’ve been wrong in the Watson draft day thread and every time he loses, decides to talk sh**.@DanielTx would you test drive the ignore function and confirm it works since the upgrade?
I don't think it was about taking the lick, Watson has shown he can and will do that. He didn't even appear to look at Coutee. What was the progression of his reads? Because to me, Coutee was not his read at all. He looked up top, then immediately looked away without looking at Coutee. Is this a play design? Did he simply miss his read? We will never know for sure. Either way, to me, it comes down to coaching. Either the design sucked or Watson isn't learning how to progress through his reads correctly.
It’s jokes to me. A long with the moderation on the site. I see certain rules apply to certain users. Though, deshaun will put up some good games and carry O’Brien to the playoffs. I’m done with going back and forth. You have raven fans coming here and don’t know what there talking about than you have guys who’ve been wrong in the Watson draft day thread and every time he loses, decides to talk sh**.
i don't think its either...Its communication. & lets give the Ravens credit here too. They play an aggressive style of defense & in some ways its unconventional. Normally when you run as much nickel & dime as they do, Teams are able to pound the rock on you with so many dbs on the field..& that is the case with them too. But they were able to stop us from doing that. our run game was non existent and they shut it down.
The reason I say you can't blame the design is b/c 1: there were short options open with Coutee & Akins crossing each other in the middle of the field. 2, DW4 does appear to expect he has a reasonable amount of time to scan the field based on his reaction of looking up top at Stills 1st & then coming back to his right. IOW's, whatever he thought was going on upfront, he thought they had it blocked up & he had more time to scan the field than he actually got.
The other thing is, Lots of times, the 1st read depends on what you expect/suspect the defense is doing....An unblocked blitzer? you as the qb should be looking for your hot immediately post snap regardless of what your 1st read would've been if there was no blitz. Alot of times, it just comes down to communicating what you see to everyone else...mostly the o-line. In the particular clip, you could make a case for 2 things, the o-line got confused b/c the Ravens disguised the blitz well................or that they didn't hear the o-line protections/calls DW4 told them to. Probably some combo of both B/c what Scharping & Tunsil did on that play.......they were clearly confused. 1 guy went 1 way, the other went another.
DW4's reaction is also telling.
You just described a confused QB.
I covered both last year and this year vs. top-10 Defenses. Feel free to scroll back up.No you haven't.
Look at the defenses they played this yr and his performance. You brought up last yr and we were having these same discussions last yr when he was playing tougher defenses.
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.
He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.
It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
Watson did not have a good game. However, when you look at the videos, any knowledgeable observer can clearly see the Ravens did a great job against the Texans offense and no one including the QB, OL, HC or OC had any answers. Not one play in the previous posts countered what the Ravens were doing.
I find it interesting how polarizing Watson is. As an example, everyone in Baltimore is committed to Lamar for the future. Last year we were even committed even though he was not a great thrower last year.
He is no Peyton at throwing still, but everybody believes in him. Owner, FO, Coaches, team, fans.
It is strange to see such a good QB so divisive.
Oh most definitely, he was hot garbage. My thing is, you see your young QB struggling. So how about running some plays that can help him and that offense get going. How about some of those misdirection plays you ran two weeks ago. Especially since you see your receivers were having a very difficult time getting separation.
Your coach is showing he knows how to adapt to the talent he has. He’s not allowing pride to get in his way.
Over here in Houston our coach has a serious problem with that type of concept.
The OB versus DW started earlier this season when someone who is a firm supporter of OB wrote Watson is too stupid to learn the EP system installed by OB. That is where it started and knowing who wrote that it won’t end until the sun has burned out.You can’t speak out against Watson. If he has a bad game, or a fumble when he should have thrown it away, you can’t bring it up. Even if you want a new HC. Somewhere this turned into an OB vs DW, and it never should have been.
99% want a new HC. 99% believe in Watson.
However - there is this fringe group that thinks Watson does nothing wrong and doesn’t accept saying anything negative.
Then there is this smaller fringe group that just likes to point out his errors to get the other fringe group riled up. (It is the Internet.)
I may or may not be part of the latter fringe group...
The OB versus DW started earlier this season when someone who is a firm supporter of OB wrote Watson is too stupid to learn the EP system installed by OB. That is where it started and knowing who wrote that it won’t end until the sun has burned out.
Yea but he even clarified that and said he misspoke.
I wish people would grow up and move on.
Wait - this is the Internet.
It wasnt misspeaking. It was an opinion that changed
tell me have you ever seen O'Brien roll out ANYTHING that has looked remotely similar to this play right here?
I don't have access to the All-22 anymore. I also don't have the time to study All-22. But this is the question I'm asking.
How do we know O'Brien isn't calling these plays? What we saw on that video could very well be what BO'b envisions when he calls in a play.
But at 1:55 we here the "if/ands" depending on what Watson reads determines how he works through his progression.
What if Watson identified the Mike as the Mike & the line shifts left (in this situation it would have been better).
If Watson starts his progression on the left then the play is lost by the time he gets to his third step & then he's got to work magic.
I don't know if any of that is the problem, but I'm not ready to rule it out. & that doesn't mean Watson is dumb, or can't run this offense.
He looks fine against more straight forward defenses. But the more advanced defenses seem to present a problem.
I'm going with B.
The reason BOB/Watson aren't a good match. After hiring Carl Smith to try to help get this through to Watson and him not making progress, I think a new HC will have the same results.
I remember when OB was hired he spoke alongside Bob McNair, Cal, and Rick Smith that he had game plans to adapt. McClain has said that was a slight dig at Kubiak who created a reputation of not making adjustments in the game...
Well talk about a snake oil salesman selling ice to an Eskimo.
There is always a debate regarding the Shanahan/Kubiak offense and audibles. The coaches believe when they call a play, there are counters within that play for the QB so the system minimizes audibles. Some say it’s too rigid, others say it’s QB friendly.
I was watching the Vikings and immediately recognize that Cousins was running some of the same bootlegs and throws to the TEs that we saw Kubiak running with the Texans.
Besides running in the A gap and deep crossing routes, I have no idea what is the identity of the Texans‘ offense and I doubt the players know.
You can't leave out the bubble screens.There is always a debate regarding the Shanahan/Kubiak offense and audibles. The coaches believe when they call a play, there are counters within that play for the QB so the system minimizes audibles. Some say it’s too rigid, others say it’s QB friendly.
I was watching the Vikings and immediately recognize that Cousins was running some of the same bootlegs and throws to the TEs that we saw Kubiak running with the Texans.
Besides running in the A gap and deep crossing routes, I have no idea what is the identity of the Texans‘ offense and I doubt the players know.
He could have taken a couple of steps forward in the pocket to his right, but took one step towards it, hesitated and decided to go backwards instead. Had he continued forward, our Oline split a nice hole for him to run through or buy time to pass to the 2 receivers deep on the left that were hooking back with totally open space in front of them.I’m still looking. Where are these open WRs?
What‘s interesting about your opinions on Watson is you always ignore he has barely played two seasons and you NEVER compare him to other QBs at the same point in their careers.
For example, Carl Smith has worked with Watson for 10 games. After Russell Wilson worked with Smith for 10 games, he was still a game manager relying on the running game and defense. In fact, in his first 10 games with Smith, do you know Wilson threw for less than 200 yards in seven of them? Wilson even won a game where he completEd less than 50% of his passes for only 122 yards. How many games do you think the Texans can win with Watson throwing for 122 yards?
If you were a GM, you would have given up on Manning, Brees and even Wilson at the same point in their careers as Watson.
I would be happy with Watson being a game manager at this point in his career, do you think Watson has made progress under Smith's tutalege this year?
I love the mods and all of the changes. I'm not contributing because I dont have a paypal acct. I've met quite a few of the members and regardless of whether we agree or dont their still awesome members and we need to meet up again when Texans are away. Maybe in the playoffs.
I live in Kingwood and my friends are opening up a bar that we can have all to ourselves. A more central place would be down on White Oak. (Christian's tailgate.)
Hey, we just closed on a house in Atascocita. Will be home in May for a month. Then its off to school for my wife and then our last 3 year stint at the US Embassy in Paris. A childhood friend of mine lives 5 homes down and his brother will be my maintenance guy while we're gone. Can't wait to officially move into our new place.
After seeing the defending NFC champ Rams get blown out at home by the Ravens, I don't feel near as negative about the Texans performance against Baltimore. But we have an issue with game planning a game management I don't think will improve under BOB
People still haven't figured Jackson out. But even if you do, do you have the personnel ? Many here and for the Rams banked on the" make him stay on the pocket and best is with his arm" gameplay, and it keeps failing.
We will be stopped at one point but it is going to take talent, AND a masterful scheme. They don't get much more talented than the Rams front, maybe the 9ers, but they got embarrassed too. Wade Phillips is damn good on defense as you well know. If we go out and do it to the 9ers I have no idea what can stop him.
People always say hit him and he won't run. Well first you have to catch him, second yes, he will. The 9ers are almost a carbon copy of the Ravens, except their talent is up front, ours is the secondary. They run too, and we have more talented QB. IF we win this game convincingly, I'm not sure what it will take. It probably starts on offense. Just run it and keep Lamar on the field. It seems as though he can score at will. The greatest defensive minds of this century couldn't scheme it up, so it's got to be a scheme and unbelievable talent.
Maybe a lockdown corner and the Texans could because of Watt and Mercilus, or maybe Clowney, Watt, and Mercilus could have. Not trying to bigheaded or anything, I have just never seen anything like it. And his preparation is becoming legendary around Baltimore.
Ya know, he is only in his 2nd year. He just might be able to continue to grow and learn this game and be one of the all time very goods, if not greats. I mean, people already thought he should have changed positions coming into the league.He won't even be starting in a few years. His ability to run and scramble the way he is will only last so long. Cordell Stewart had his moments where he looked great for a while, but it never lasted long.
Ya know, he is only in his 2nd year. He just might be able to continue to grow and learn this game and be one of the all time very goods, if not greats. I mean, people already thought he should have changed positions coming into the league.
I agree, that right now, that offense looks unstoppable! I even mentioned to my buddies that this is the most dominant offense I've seen in a while. They brought up last season's Rams and Chiefs, but I thought this one is even more dangerous. Reason being, you know what they're going to do, you just can't stop it.People still haven't figured Jackson out. But even if you do, do you have the personnel ? Many here and for the Rams banked on the" make him stay on the pocket and best is with his arm" gameplay, and it keeps failing.
We will be stopped at one point but it is going to take talent, AND a masterful scheme. They don't get much more talented than the Rams front, maybe the 9ers, but they got embarrassed too. Wade Phillips is damn good on defense as you well know. If we go out and do it to the 9ers I have no idea what can stop him.
People always say hit him and he won't run. Well first you have to catch him, second yes, he will. The 9ers are almost a carbon copy of the Ravens, except their talent is up front, ours is the secondary. They run too, and we have more talented QB. IF we win this game convincingly, I'm not sure what it will take. It probably starts on offense. Just run it and keep Lamar on the field. It seems as though he can score at will. The greatest defensive minds of this century couldn't scheme it up, so it's got to be a scheme and unbelievable talent.
Maybe a lockdown corner and the Texans could because of Watt and Mercilus, or maybe Clowney, Watt, and Mercilus could have. Not trying to bigheaded or anything, I have just never seen anything like it. And his preparation is becoming legendary around Baltimore.
Maybe a lockdown corner and the Texans could
I've seen to many guys just like him come around this league. I don't see him any different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer. Taylor wasn't bad overall, but eventually his running wasn't as effective. Wait until Jackson gets injured and starts thinking about his body more or where he isn't as elusive and care free about running. He doesn't have an arm like Russell Wilson or even Watson. I know his TD numbers look good lately, but they are generally short passes where his receivers are pretty wide open. Remember RG3 got ROTY and was awesome up until the injuries came, and mentally he was never the same once his physical attributes became vulnerable.
I agree, that right now, that offense looks unstoppable! I even mentioned to my buddies that this is the most dominant offense I've seen in a while. They brought up last season's Rams and Chiefs, but I thought this one is even more dangerous. Reason being, you know what they're going to do, you just can't stop it.
With that being said, the big question is, "Is this sustainable?". Come on, we've seen this story time and time again. Vick, RGIII, Kaepernick, Cam. Those guys came out running the read option and were difficult to stop. Eventually, their bodies aren't designed to take on this many hits and will need to develop their passing game in the pocket. We shall wait and see how Lamar progresses.
No you havent. This league has never seen a Lamar Jackson. That is why he is setting a record week after week after week. I think this was a 3rd week in a row he shattered records. If you see him no different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer you are missing a lot. I think it is still stunning that people will refuse to think that THEIR QB can get better but Lamar is going to only be as good at passing as he is right now. If you look at the improvement from one offseason to the next, it is remarkable the progress he made. People are flabbergasted at how improved he has become. If he improves that much again, which is entirely possible seeing as he is 22, Then what? What will the excuse be? Well he can throw with the best of them, but he sure cant run like Barry Sanders ? The kid is going to get better, unless you think that is outside the realm of possibility.
The thing is Lamar is better at throwing than any of those guys except for Cam. That said I think he is more complete than any of them. He is more accurate than any of them right now, he can read a defense better than any of them ever could and it is his second year. Now does he have the Arm strength as some of them? No, but he can still throw it 70 yards, and when most drives start on the 20 or 25, that is plenty of arm strength. That said, the current offense as it is right now, whether sustainable or not, isnt going to be long for the game. They are just dong this to get Lamar successful reps until his passing game catches up. Everyone in the Ravens building knows that Lamar will stay Lamar, but the real goal is to get 3 offseasons of improvement under his belt to transition him to a great passer, than can take off when the play breaks down.
The biggest difference in him between those guys is between his ears. As I mentioned, his work ethic is becomeing legend in an organization who has a storied history of workout warriors and film geeks. He has improved since he played the Texans to the Rams. The Rams brought a corner blitz, that was in the exact defense the Texans used and forced Lamar to run. This time, he recognized the zero blitz and the corner coming off, audibled to his hot read, and hit Brown for a touchdown. He is already far better at preparing than Vick, he is certainly more humble than all of them, is far and away a better leader than any of them. As an anecdote to that, we lost our starting center VS the Rams to a knee injury. So instead of making him walk all the way back to the back of the Plane, Lamar gave an unheralded Center his seat, and sat in the back with the o line, and no name guys. He is not a crybaby diva like Cam, and is already smarter.
I think this offense is sustainable for as long as we choose it to be, which MAY be for 2 more years. They are already transitioning him to a pocket passer who can run instead someone who is doing designed runs. If he improves as much as he did from year 1 to year 2, in year 3 and 4, he is going to be an elite passer soon. He is already tied with Russel for most TD passes, and only has 2 more interceptions, with playing the hardest schedule in the league.
Well as a Texans fan... I hope you're wrong.
The game against the 9ers will be good, but I'm still predicting the Ravens to win rather easily.
If you see him no different than Tyrod Taylor or Kaepernick as a passer you are missing a lot. I think it is still stunning that people will refuse to think that THEIR QB can get better but Lamar is going to only be as good at passing as he is right now.
Tyrod Taylor never did anything. I don't know why he put his name in there.
But Kapernick... I can see Jackson's career taking a similar path. Without the political bull. Kap was in a similar situation & looked like he was unstoppable & redefining at one time. Then something changed & he never got back on track.
In hindsight we can say he never had it. It was all about scheme & surrounding talent.
Vick was the same way.
You are absolutely right. What the Ravens are doing now hasn't been done before. It's new.
The question is do they even know what they did? Can they keep it going? Is this repeatable? Lamar Jackson is a big part of it. Can he hold it together? Keep outside influences to a minimum?
Your riding a tidal wave right now. The offseason is coming & that is going to slow everything down. That's going to introduce change. Can the Ravens identify what the team needs, what it doesn't & how to adapt.
I guarantee every team in the North will be thinking about the Ravens when they address their roster, their staff, their philosophy... their whole operation. & so will every other top team in the league.
This is the mindset he had. Nobody Cares, work harder. Predicting the future is a fools errand, but from all the evidence we have now, this kid cares about one thing and one thing only, football.
Oh, I'm not sideways. I'm just stating an opinion.This kid is now a Super Star. Last offseason has nothing to do with this coming off season.
Yes, we all hope our QB improves from year to year. Don't get sideways when a few fans of another team don't share your optimism.
Keep it real.
Lamar is a big part of what's driving that train in Baltimore. But only a part. Jackson can handle the offseason perfectly. But one little change in the organization can derail the offense & it'll affect the perception of Lamar.
Remember the Eagles offense was unstoppable one year, they lose Deshaun Jackson & they can't move the ball next year.
What happens if Greg Roman becomes the Cowboys HC?
& I don't even want to talk about the injury we hope he doesn't sustain with his style of play that may force him to develop on a faster pace.
What happens if Greg Roman becomes the Cowboys HC?
Tyrod Taylor never did anything. I don't know why he put his name in there.
But Kapernick... I can see Jackson's career taking a similar path. Without the political bull. Kap was in a similar situation & looked like he was unstoppable & redefining at one time. Then something changed & he never got back on track.
In hindsight we can say he never had it. It was all about scheme & surrounding talent.
Vick was the same way.
You are absolutely right. What the Ravens are doing now hasn't been done before. It's new.
The question is do they even know what they did? Can they keep it going? Is this repeatable? Lamar Jackson is a big part of it. Can he hold it together? Keep outside influences to a minimum?
Your riding a tidal wave right now. The offseason is coming & that is going to slow everything down. That's going to introduce change. Can the Ravens identify what the team needs, what it doesn't & how to adapt.
I guarantee every team in the North will be thinking about the Ravens when they address their roster, their staff, their philosophy... their whole operation. & so will every other top team in the league.