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Surprise cut or trade this season?

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
I had 610 on radio just now and they had interesting (I thought) question. What Texan vet or rookie would be a surprise cut or trade? They ruled out Jamison and Holliday but Vandermeer suggested an Olineman. We saw what happened in off season & as Texans get better we will see more of this.
 
I think we've had enough surprise trade/cuts this off season (Ryans/Winston) for me, but if there is another one, and it comes from the O-line, I think it could be Wade Smith. But, the only way I see this happening is for either Shelley Smith or Brandon Brooks to play so well in the pre-season that the Texans feel they can let him go.
 
I doubt any more surprising cuts happen but if I had to choose I'd go Kevin Walter or one of the guards.
 
ckhouston said:
Many will be surprised when we move Schaub, I wont, but many of you will.
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If you are talking trade, can you please post some scenarios? That would be blockbuster and might lead to longest TT thread ever. Depending on offer I would be open.
 
ckhouston said:
Many will be surprised when we move Schaub, I wont, but many of you will.
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How do you see that situation playing out?

I'd imagine he'd have to play and show he's healthy first.

And if he does that why wouldn't we keep him?

Jacksonville might be the only team in the NFL that would trade for schaub without showing he's fully recovered.
 
I was thinking maybe OD until we completely ignored the TE position this offseason, so he should be safe.
 
badboy said:
If you are talking trade, can you please post some scenarios? That would be blockbuster and might lead to longest TT thread ever. Depending on offer I would be open.
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If he shows by mid-season that he can still take the field, and another team has a QB go down, we may be able to get a fourth or fifth for him. Nothing BB about this guys last grasp at glory in the league, IMHO. He may turn out to be a serviceable starter for a desperate team needing to finish the season or groom a young gun, otherwise he should be a back-up until he retires, if he can play again at all.
 
Rey said:
And if he does that why wouldn't we keep him?
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By the time he shows he can take the field again, if that ever happens, he wont be 100%, and TJ will have already earned the starters role. IMHO. We wont pay the money he will try and demand based on his two good years he posted in his career. Someone may pay it, but their name wont be Bob McNair.
 
badboy said:
I had 610 on radio just now and they had interesting (I thought) question. What Texan vet or rookie would be a surprise cut or trade? They ruled out Jamison and Holliday but Vandermeer suggested an Olineman. We saw what happened in off season & as Texans get better we will see more of this.
Click to expand...

I cant see any way that Jamison would be cut. The dude makes plays. Not sure why they would lump him in with Holliday.

Surprise move. Antonio Smith. High salary plus Crick in draft.
 
ckhouston said:
By the time he shows he can take the field again, if that ever happens, he wont be 100%, and TJ will have already earned the starters role. IMHO. We wont pay the money he will try and demand based on his two good years he posted in his career. Someone may pay it, but their name wont be Bob McNair.
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To be honest I don't see us paying schaub big bucks. No matter how someone slices it, his health is a concern.
 
Rey said:
How do you see that situation playing out?

I'd imagine he'd have to play and show he's healthy first.

And if he does that why wouldn't we keep him?

Jacksonville might be the only team in the NFL that would trade for schaub without showing he's fully recovered.
Click to expand...
Would not the Schaub scenario be very similar to Mario except that Matt still has one year left? There supposedly were suitors for Williams beside Buffalo. I think at certain positions and QB is one of course, teams will take chances. I do kow that Mario was farther along in his healing and differnet types of injuries.
 
ckhouston said:
Many will be surprised when we move Schaub, I wont, but many of you will.
Click to expand...

I don't see this happening this year. Now next year when he's up for a big contract, that's a different story. And, a lot will depend on how he plays this year and if he stays healthy or not. If he's not healthy or has a bad year, we could be looking at drafting a QB next year in the 1st round. :shades:
 
badboy said:
Would not the Schaub scenario be very similar to Mario except that Matt still has one year left? There supposedly were suitors for Williams beside Buffalo. I think at certain positions and QB is one of course, teams will take chances. I do kow that Mario was farther along in his healing and differnet types of injuries.
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Pec vs foot as you mentioned.

Age, perceived value. Also, teams can use multiple de's. You really only want to use 1 qb. A lot of teams have heavily invested into that position already and they have guys they believe can be starting qb's.

It'd be more similar to Peyton than Mario. Biggest difference there though would be risk vs reward.
 
Insideop said:
I don't see this happening this year. Now next year when he's up for a big contract, that's a different story. And, a lot will depend on how he plays this year and if he stays healthy or not. If he's not healthy or has a bad year, we could be looking at drafting a QB next year in the 1st round. :shades:
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Can't trade him once his contract is up.
 
Insideop said:
I think we've had enough surprise trade/cuts this off season (Ryans/Winston) for me, but if there is another one, and it comes from the O-line, I think it could be Wade Smith. But, the only way I see this happening is for either Shelley Smith or Brandon Brooks to play so well in the pre-season that the Texans feel they can let him go.
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Cutting the third starting lineman from last years starting Oline in the person of one Wade Smith would indeed be a big surprise.
What I think is very possible is cutting the projected starter for this season at RG, Antoine Caldwell. They've drafted 2 players this year using mid round picks who could play that position, and then they've got another young guard in Shelly Smith coming back who will compete for snaps at the guard position.
And Caldwell has basically been a disappointment for the Texans.
 
I'm with IDEXAN on this.... if I had to project one surprise cut it'd be one of the starting guards.

Caldwell's been a disappointment, but I am not exactly sure it's completely his fault, I think he's been playing out of position. Myers finally stepped up and cemented himself as the unquestioned starter. Of course I think part of this is due to much improved guard play since Smith arrived.

Long term, I think CK is right though. Matt Schaub, unless he can prove he can start the season healthy is likely done as the starter, honestly it's likely he's done being a full time starter league wide. You just can't rely on his ability to stay healthy. 6 years here and only 2 fully healthy ones. That's not what you need in a franchise guy. I like Matt, but he's turning into Chris Chandler. When healthy he's capable of taking a a team deep into the playoffs, but you just can't count on him to be healthy.


Far as where he could land? I think Kolb has this next year to prove he can cut it in AZ, specially now that they have Fitz and added Floyd. I don't think we'll be able to get much on a trade with him, if we got a third I'd be ecstatic, but realistically he'd be a stop gap starter most likely.
 
Surpise cuts:

Rashad Butler - Saves 1.25 million this year.

Shaun Cody - Saves 2 million this year.

Those are the only two that I think may happen. I think Cody is the most likely to be cut, and I think Butler may not be worth the money over Newton, Brooks, or whoever they decide to put at RT.
 
infantrycak said:
Everyone gets it. You have an irrational dislike for Schaub.
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But it's okay, because we're going to get Peyton to come in and play for us next season by giving him a low risk, incentive based contract.

Oh wait, no we're not (and neither are the Denver Broncos).
 
ckhouston said:
If he shows by mid-season that he can still take the field, and another team has a QB go down, we may be able to get a fourth or fifth for him. Nothing BB about this guys last grasp at glory in the league, IMHO. He may turn out to be a serviceable starter for a desperate team needing to finish the season or groom a young gun, otherwise he should be a back-up until he retires, if he can play again at all.
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A fourth or fifth rounder for a guy for has thrown for consecutive 4,000+ yard seasons, who was on his way to a likely third, who is consistently one of the most accurate quarterbacks in the league, who is younger than Drew Brees and Tony Romo, AND under your scenario, shows he can still take the field?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this franchise has the most out-of-whack quarterback standards out of any other team in the league.
 
BetaV1 said:
A fourth or fifth rounder for a guy for has thrown for consecutive 4,000+ yard seasons, who was on his way to a likely third, who is consistently one of the most accurate quarterbacks in the league, who is younger than Drew Brees and Tony Romo, AND under your scenario, shows he can still take the field?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this franchise has the most out-of-whack quarterback standards out of any other team in the league.
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Yes, a fourth or fifth rounder for a guy who has thrown for consecutive 4,000 yard seasons, <begin "but he woulda" type comments>....

Schaub misses any significant time this season (be it at the beginning if he can't go right away or at the end if he gets hurt again) and he will basically have a record here of two hurt years for every complete one.

That's Chris Chandler territory. That's called "injury prone".

Having said that I think he'll be ready to play in week one. I'm not a Schaub fan nor am I a Schaub hater. I think he's good enough but I also think that an upgrade can be found. Basically in my opinion Matt's so good that you don't need to go find a starting QB but he's hurt so much that you should be doing your due dillegence at all times. I think Kubiak does that. He's been turning over rocks looking for our next (bargain) starting QB for years. Not because he's in a hurry to replace Schaub but because he knows that in any given season Albert Haynesworth or someone like him could force the issue.

He'll be ready for week one. That won't surprise me. If he starts 16 games for us that will surprise me.
 
badboy said:
What Texan vet or rookie would be a surprise cut or trade?
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I'd have to be there. Interesting today Merrill Hoge and Mark Schlereth both said they'd know which rookies would make it, which wouldn't in just a few days -- said it's quickly obvious.
 
Hervoyel said:
Yes, a fourth or fifth rounder for a guy who has thrown for consecutive 4,000 yard seasons, <begin "but he woulda" type comments>....

Schaub misses any significant time this season (be it at the beginning if he can't go right away or at the end if he gets hurt again) and he will basically have a record here of two hurt years for every complete one.

That's Chris Chandler territory. That's called "injury prone".

Having said that I think he'll be ready to play in week one. I'm not a Schaub fan nor am I a Schaub hater. I think he's good enough but I also think that an upgrade can be found. Basically in my opinion Matt's so good that you don't need to go find a starting QB but he's hurt so much that you should be doing your due dillegence at all times. I think Kubiak does that. He's been turning over rocks looking for our next (bargain) starting QB for years. Not because he's in a hurry to replace Schaub but because he knows that in any given season Albert Haynesworth or someone like him could force the issue.

He'll be ready for week one. That won't surprise me. If he starts 16 games for us that will surprise me.
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Same for Andre Johnson, right?
 
Playoffs said:
I'd have to be there. Interesting today Merrill Hoge and Mark Schlereth both said they'd know which rookies would make it, which wouldn't in just a few days -- said it's quickly obvious.
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Well get back with that info when you know....
 
Kevin Walter would be a surprising but justifiable cut. Anyone of the rookies or 2nd year players start making plays, Walter could be cut. I know his blocking skills are what keep his lack of production tolerable, but eventually he wont live up to his contract. This year could be that year, but if I was betting I'd put my money on 2013.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Surpise cuts:

Rashad Butler - Saves 1.25 million this year.

Shaun Cody - Saves 2 million this year.

Those are the only two that I think may happen. I think Cody is the most likely to be cut, and I think Butler may not be worth the money over Newton, Brooks, or whoever they decide to put at RT.
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If it's a trade Butler has more worth. If it's a straight out cut then Cody.
 
None. The surprises (Ryans and Winston) have already occurred.
 
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Lucky said:
None. The surprises (Ryan and Winston) have already occurred.
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This! ^^^

I'm pretty sure we're done with the surprise cuts.

But I'm going to play along anyways. IMO, there is no way we're cutting Walter or one of the starters on the OL. We're already thin at those positions, so it makes no sense what so ever cutting more vets at those positions. Especially since none of them are making big bucks.

So to play along, my surprise cut would be Antonio Smith. He's making 5.5 mil, and the addition of Mercilus makes him somewhat expendable.
 
Hervoyel said:
Yes, a fourth or fifth rounder for a guy who has thrown for consecutive 4,000 yard seasons, <begin "but he woulda" type comments>....

Schaub misses any significant time this season (be it at the beginning if he can't go right away or at the end if he gets hurt again) and he will basically have a record here of two hurt years for every complete one.

That's Chris Chandler territory. That's called "injury prone".

Having said that I think he'll be ready to play in week one. I'm not a Schaub fan nor am I a Schaub hater. I think he's good enough but I also think that an upgrade can be found. Basically in my opinion Matt's so good that you don't need to go find a starting QB but he's hurt so much that you should be doing your due dillegence at all times. I think Kubiak does that. He's been turning over rocks looking for our next (bargain) starting QB for years. Not because he's in a hurry to replace Schaub but because he knows that in any given season Albert Haynesworth or someone like him could force the issue.

He'll be ready for week one. That won't surprise me. If he starts 16 games for us that will surprise me.
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Much better summarized than I have. I am glad someone got the Chandler reference because honestly, its the territory he's moving into.
 
Biggest surprise would be to cut or trade AJ. I just hope I am not giving that statement power by saying it.
 
I don't see Schaub as injury prone. His last 2 injuries were Jared Allen diving into his knee (an illegal and dirty play) and a 300+lb fatty landing on his foot. Anyone could suffer the same injuries in those situations. Injury prone, in my mind, are describes guys that have chronic muscle strain issues, chronic concussions, back issues ect ...

I would consider MW more injury prone than Schaub, heck AJ may have more issues than Schaub going forward. Contact injuries to joints can happen to anyone.

Also, if you're trading Schaub you'd get waaaay more than a 4 or 5. Hell Plamer pulled multi first rounders. At this point Schaub is the superior QB
 
None of the veteran OL are in danger. We need all of 'em since the departure of Winston and Brisiel.

Walter is not in danger. Kubiak values him as a veteran WR who has reliable hands and blocks in the run game. Plus, never let it slip from your mind that Walter caught the game winning pass vs. Bengals in a clutch moment on the road. That cements his value as a WR who can be trusted in big games.

Truth is, we're skinny at every position. Ryans, Dreessen, Jacoby, Winston, Brisiel, Mario, and Allen represent 5 different positions on our team that require a depth chart "up flow" and then 3rd stringers who now become 2nd stringers.

I don't see any surprise cuts. Like its been said, the surprise cuts/departures have already happened. Now it's a deal of figuring out depth chart slots.

This is the safest year for Texans players because of how much Gary values continuity and how it connects with all the key players who left us. If you just do your job, you make the roster. Because the herd has already been thinned out ahead of time.
 
IDEXAN said:
Cutting the third starting lineman from last years starting Oline in the person of one Wade Smith would indeed be a big surprise.
What I think is very possible is cutting the projected starter for this season at RG, Antoine Caldwell. They've drafted 2 players this year using mid round picks who could play that position, and then they've got another young guard in Shelly Smith coming back who will compete for snaps at the guard position.
And Caldwell has basically been a disappointment for the Texans.
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I don't think it is "very possible" cutting Caldwell at all. I know he didn't play as well as Brisiel when Brisiel went down, but I think that was due to him having nagging injuries this past season. I think the Texans are counting on him to be the RG while they groom Shelley Smith and Brooks, and I don't think they are disappointed in him. I've only heard this disappointment coming from the fans.

Now, I don't believe they would get rid of Wade Smith either since, like you said, that would be the 3rd starting lineman lost. But, the question was who do you think would be a surprise cut or trade, and I still think Wade Smith would be the lineman most likely to go due to his age and his drop off in play last season. Not saying this will happen, because I don't think it will due to the added loss of continuity in the line. But, at this time, and unless he is rejuvenated, I think Wade Smith will be the one looking over his shoulder at Shelley and Brandon.
 
GP said:
None of the veteran OL are in danger. We need all of 'em since the departure of Winston and Brisiel.

Walter is not in danger. Kubiak values him as a veteran WR who has reliable hands and blocks in the run game. Plus, never let it slip from your mind that Walter caught the game winning pass vs. Bengals in a clutch moment on the road. That cements his value as a WR who can be trusted in big games.

Truth is, we're skinny at every position. Ryans, Dreessen, Jacoby, Winston, Brisiel, Mario, and Allen represent 5 different positions on our team that require a depth chart "up flow" and then 3rd stringers who now become 2nd stringers.

I don't see any surprise cuts. Like its been said, the surprise cuts/departures have already happened. Now it's a deal of figuring out depth chart slots.

This is the safest year for Texans players because of how much Gary values continuity and how it connects with all the key players who left us. If you just do your job, you make the roster. Because the herd has already been thinned out ahead of time.
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This! ^^^^ rep
 
Shaun Cody (not probable but, IMO, most likely)

If Mitchell's weight gain is as beneficial as I think it will be, I think Earl wins out the starting job. The other thing that needs to happen for Cody to be cut would be for Fangupo to hit the ground running and show in the preseason that he's serviceable as Mitchell's backup.
 
badboy said:
Same for Andre Johnson, right?
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Getting there. A lot of factors mitigate it though in AJ's case. Still AJ's got a lot of miles and years on him. He's been banged up a lot in recent seasons and I think if the Texans aren't searching for a guy who can step in for AJ to at least some degree then they're crazy.
 
otisbean said:
I don't see Schaub as injury prone. His last 2 injuries were Jared Allen diving into his knee (an illegal and dirty play) and a 300+lb fatty landing on his foot. Anyone could suffer the same injuries in those situations. Injury prone, in my mind, are describes guys that have chronic muscle strain issues, chronic concussions, back issues ect ...

I would consider MW more injury prone than Schaub, heck AJ may have more issues than Schaub going forward. Contact injuries to joints can happen to anyone.

Also, if you're trading Schaub you'd get waaaay more than a 4 or 5. Hell Plamer pulled multi first rounders. At this point Schaub is the superior QB
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It's true. Anybody could get hurt in those situations. I think we've established with very little doubt that Schaub will get hurt in those situations.

Some guys just break easier than others. Some guys find themselves getting hit in bad ways regularly. Remember the kids you grew up with who always broke something or had some kind of scrape or cut? Some kids you just don't trust to carry the knife over to mom.

At some point you have to just look objectively at the number of games a player has missed and admit that this player gets hurt a lot. Then you have to decide if he's so good that you're willing to run with that chance or if you think there's a guy out there who can take the same beating and not miss as much time.
 
It seems to me that with the Winston cut, letting Mario walk (I know, no real choice), the DeMeco trade, the turning over of our roster is happening right before our eyes. It would not amaze me to see Antonio Smith or K.W. or O.D. or Cody "moved" this year or next.

As for movement this season, I agree with GP; the "surprises" have already happened.

And Schaub ain't goin' no place until Yates or Beck or maybe even Keenum can show that one of them can step in and effectively run this offense. Yates' 1-3 record as starter doesn't inspire confidence from my knothole. And Beck (who's the same age as Schaub) seems to be your basic journeyman backup. Keenum is, IMHO, the best bet for the future until they spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB.
:twocents:
 
Hervoyel said:
It's true. Anybody could get hurt in those situations. I think we've established with very little doubt that Schaub will get hurt in those situations.

Some guys just break easier than others. Some guys find themselves getting hit in bad ways regularly. Remember the kids you grew up with who always broke something or had some kind of scrape or cut? Some kids you just don't trust to carry the knife over to mom.

At some point you have to just look objectively at the number of games a player has missed and admit that this player gets hurt a lot. Then you have to decide if he's so good that you're willing to run with that chance or if you think there's a guy out there who can take the same beating and not miss as much time.
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I understand where you're coming from, but I think the body is just not meant to handle certain forces. Tom Brady got injured on the exact same type of play as the Allen hit on Schaub, and I think any QB would get hurt if a 270+ lb DLman dove into their knee. The knee can't handle that type of hit. I view the foot injury the same way, if a giant man falls and lands on your foot the wrong way, it's going to break, and it could happen to anyone. Personally, Im not ready to label a guy as injury prone when his injuries could have legitimately happened to any athlete in the same situation.

When I think injury prone, I think of athletes like Yao, Tracy McGrady or (going back a little) Brent Price. These guy's bodies just had issues, Yao with his feet, TMac with his back and heck Price tore his ACL running down the court. These guys are injury prone. There are plenty of similar examples in the NFL but these jumped out at me.
 
ObsiWan said:
It seems to me that with the Winston cut, letting Mario walk (I know, no real choice), the DeMeco trade, the turning over of our roster is happening right before our eyes. It would not amaze me to see Antonio Smith or K.W. or O.D. or Cody "moved" this year or next.

As for movement this season, I agree with GP; the "surprises" have already happened.

And Schaub ain't goin' no place until Yates or Beck or maybe even Keenum can show that one of them can step in and effectively run this offense. Yates' 1-3 record as starter doesn't inspire confidence from my knothole. And Beck (who's the same age as Schaub) seems to be your basic journeyman backup. Keenum is, IMHO, the best bet for the future until they spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB.
:twocents:
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How do you calculate a 1-3 record for Yates as a starter? In the regular season, he was 2-3 with his two wins coming against the Falcons and Bengals. In the post-season, he was 1-1. Overall, he's 3-4 with all three wins coming against playoff teams.
 
I don't think the Schaub deal is that far fetched. I think he is definitely a better QB than Yates but for what the Texans are starting to do, they don't need a 4,000 yard guy anymore. He struggled some last year before injuries and Yates showed he could manage games..even without AJ at times...and get results. Once they moved to a "running the ball, playing tough D, ball control" type team vs airing it out, the whole dynamic of Schaub and how valuable he had to be changed.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
How do you calculate a 1-3 record for Yates as a starter? In the regular season, he was 2-3 with his two wins coming against the Falcons and Bengals. In the post-season, he was 1-1. Overall, he's 3-4 with all three wins coming against playoff teams.
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I would say 2-2 in regular season, he only played one series against Titans.
 
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