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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
dream_team
Hall of Fame
It may help to specify whom the second open guy is. I don't see it either.
I saw it at the game. I'm going to assume it was a slot WR that ran a 10 yd out pattern, but I cant be sure of that. Maybe FL can help you out with this.
Really , he's onto something there.
One of the knocks on Watson pre-draft was that he didn't see both sides of the field and its pretty obvious that's still an issue. He misses an awful lot of stuff , both before and after the snap.
That first season they ran a lot of simple stuff , read option , getting him in space and one / two read throws with a safety valve.
Watson looked really good doing those things.
Now they are asking him to stay in the pocket with multiple reads and suspect protection. When the protection holds up like it did in the second half of the Chargers game , everything is peachy …. but that and two drives against the Aints is the only time the protection has held.
Then you have the issue of the longer the protection holds , the longer Watson takes …. trying to make that big play instead of taking what he can get and move the chains.
Go back to that 1 or 2 reads and hit the safety valve they did year one …. and let the guys around him make a play. He really needs some structure ….
This is all I'm really trying to say. Keep it simple and build the offense around what he does well, instead of trying to get him to be Brady. (Because if we're honest we all know that's not going to happen.)
Why did they change the offense from the 1st 7 games to what we're seeing now? My theory is BOB's trying to protect Watson from injury since he was coming off an ACL.
Now that they are where they are and Watson appears to be healthy, they should go back to the things he does well and dont worry about injury. If BOB doesn't do this then that tells me that his ego/hard headedness is getting in the way of doing what's best for the franchise. Unfortunately this appears to be the case and this team is going nowhere fast. I still think they will finish 10-6 though.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
"The more time he gets, the more time he takes" This is what I've been posting for several weeks.
And as far as the read option and the like in main stay that seemed to have worked for Watson in his short rookie year, in the NFL it is not a system that has survived successfully for any QB long-term. Cam Newton sucked it dry until he almost got killed............and he makes Watson look like a little kid.
If you want the team to be successful, unfortunately this is the offense that needs to be run.
Why do you think BOB chose to run the offense he ran those 1st 7 games?
When that's all he's been successful doing …. that's what you gotta do.
They can run that without getting him killed , we saw Schaub doing much of the same kinda roll out plays and just chuck it in the stands if the check down isn't there. You don't have to take those hits.
Really , the risk of injury is greater in a dirty pocket than outside in space ….
Honestly , I'd put Watson in a classic I formation …. and run a modified WCO with lots of play action and no more than two reads on any pass play - after that hit the check down or chuck it in the stands.
Last edited:
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I’ll say yes and no on Cam. Cam was a runner that happen to throw the football. They would actually game plan for him to get the ball and run it just like a RB. That quick pass to the TE Watson made in the Chargers game, Cam wouldn’t have done that he would have just tried to bulldoze through the defender. Watson is a far better passer than Cam and our WR group is also far better.
This is how you get around Watson's deficiencies. Basically forcing him to get the ball out of his hands quickly by simplifying things.
This is how you get around Watson's deficiencies. Basically forcing him to get the ball out of his hands quickly by simplifying things.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Watson has to adjust to the NFL . They take away what you want to do and Watson hasn't countered that move yet . The RBs and TEs should get 6 targets a game .
Yep, and sad thing is they're open alot. I thought Watson made progress after the Chargers game. Wrong
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Probably the only thing he felt Watson was familiar with (virtually all off schedule) and could run in a short period of time. I doubt if he ever envisioned it being a realistic long-term career path.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Agree with the bolded. Some reports think you would find that pocket passers actually lose .5 games more per year to injury vs “mobile QBs”
https://www.tampabay.com/sports/foo...more-injury-prone-than-drop-back-qbs/2206637/
https://footballtoolbox.net/qb-play-pocket-mobile
listen to coach Johnson give his insight.
maybe @CloakNNNdagger would like to chime in.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Haven't you seen the resistance to doing this despite obvious repeated direction to do so?
Being off schedule is a big part of their problems …. 2nd and 3rd down and long. That just invites the blitz.
Its alright to try and make a big play but you have to pick and choose favorable down and distances to take those shots 1st and 10 fine. 2nd and short , 3rd and a distance you can run or pass from.
Field position also matters ….
When you get nothing on first down …. a long developing play on second down and long is asking for trouble and it seems that's the only type of pass play in OB's playbook.
I'm not completely sure he's getting to the check down read …. taking so too much time looking downfield.
I don't know if that's on Watson trying to take big chunks and pressure getting to him before he can find that check down or the fact that so many of these routes take too long to develop and the pressure gets to him …
I really hate this offense.
Its those hits you don't see coming and the cluster of bodies …. it doesn't take much to injure an ankle or knee.
Out in space , you can get down or otherwise avoid contact and don't have that cluster of big bodies around to get caught up in.
Slow developing iso routes are a staple. Whenever he goes away from them it works great, but he always goes back to them
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I would tend to agree............IF the QB is willing to go down or chuck the ball in a timely fashion, something that Watson has had a difficult time doing in attempt to always "make the play."
The (Early) Returns of the Laremy Tunsil Trade
“Laremy Tunsil is worth it because Andrew Luck retired after he got hurt, and you can’t risk your young quarterback’s health in today’s NFL.“
This one seemed to be the most prevalent explanation for the overpay. Andrew Luck had just retired in the middle of the preseason, and the Texans were supposed to look at the beating that Luck took and realize that they couldn’t let their franchise quarterback take the same beating.
That argument falls apart in a few different ways, but the most important reason it falls apart is because study after study shows the two people who have the biggest say in a quarterback’s sack rate are the quarterback and the head coach. Just this week, Watson took six sacks, I would argue the offensive line played fairly well outside of Greg Mancz. It didn’t matter:
✔@BrandonThornNFL
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1179051273083072512
Deshaun Watson was sacked 6 times last week, 4 of which were on him. Common theme watching him is how long he holds onto the ball. This OL has been playing better than some may think these last couple of weeks.
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1179051273083072512
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1179051273083072512
All of Watson’s sack/hit numbers are essentially within the realm of what he did last season, especially if you believe the Chargers game was an outlier caused by an overly passive defense. Houston’s adjusted sack rate of 11.9% is the second-worst in the league. Last year it was 11.6%. Watson’s quarterback hit rate has gone down only slightly, and in going down slightly it has still not come close to the 2017 numbers:
via airyards.com
The real interesting thing about Watson’s hit rate is when you compare it to Andrew Luck. See, Luck floundered about with what was perceived to be a bad line for a long time too. Then they hired Frank Reich, and Reich completely torched the system that Chuck Pagano had put in place, then made some in-house adjustments. Luck’s adjusted sack rate dropped from 7.6% in 2016 to 4.1% in 2018.
Airyards did not keep Andrew Luck in their system after he retired, so I went and counted out the hit numbers manually.
Andrew Luck’s 2016 season: 8.3 quarterback hits per start
Andrew Luck’s 2018 season: 5.3 quarterback hits per start
Andrew Luck’s last 10 games + playoff games of the 2018 season: 3.9 quarterback hits per start
The problem was: It was too late. Luck had already been broken.
We’ve seen Bill O’Brien run an offense with more concepts that keep Watson doing what he was comfortable in college in 2017. That was the year that Watson had his lowest quarterback hit rate. The head coach can have a huge impact on the quarterback hits by his scheme and the areas of the field he wants to target. O’Brien’s scheme is more conducive to getting Watson hit than Watson’s college scheme was.
Tunsil has not solved this problem because no offensive lineman could. The two people who can solve it are above his pay grade, which is a weird-but-true thing you can say about a guy who will probably get $60 million in guaranteed money at some point.
“Laremy Tunsil will raise all tides along the offensive line by putting players into positions they are better equipped to play.”
I think this is the second-truest argument put out about what Tunsil has done, because all you need to do is look at what the Texans would have done without him. Matt Kalil would almost undoubtedly have led to Tytus Howard at left tackle, when Tytus Howard’s first four games have shown us uneven play at lesser positions.
That said, it hasn’t really changed a whole lot. If you look at Houston’s line as a whole, Nick Martin has been solid, but he was going to man center anyway. Zach Fulton has been … okay? But he was going to man that position anyway.
✔@riversmccown
https://twitter.com/riversmccown/status/1174045892883693568
Sack 1 -- Roderick Johnson lets the outside man go (correctly). When Watson goes to step up to avoid the rush, nobody is cleanly open. Think he was a bit late with the step up too. If he gets away with the step up, has a small window over the middle to Coutee.
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1174045892883693568
https://twitter.com/riversmccown
The player who has lost snaps as a result of trading for Tunsil is Roderick Johnson, who I would argue actually deserves to be starting at right tackle on pure merit. That’s no slam on Howard, he just was always going to be year-one project coming out of Alabama State. Howard definitely has higher upside.
But, I have to admit that Howard at left tackle would likely be a disaster, and Johnson and Howard outside probably gets you to mediocre-to-average at best. Tunsil has definitely put less pressure as a whole on the offensive line to perform, and that is an objectively great thing about the trade.
“Laremy Tunsil will open up Houston’s deep passing game.”
There are definitely a handful of plays every game where Tunsil out-and-out locks a lineman down.
✔@PatDStat
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/1176603192999718913
Laremy Tunsil with the clamps on Joey Bosa. Bosa attempts to use his left arm to start his speed rush and then Tunsil literally stops him in his tracks. Cold. #Texans
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1176603192999718913
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/1176603192999718913
I think the best argument to make here is not that Tunsil himself is doing enough to make the Texans throw deep, but that he has given O’Brien more comfortability with longer dropbacks. In 2018, Watson took the fourth-most time to make his throws, with an average of 3.01 seconds per throw. But, Watson’s intended air yards of 8.8 was tied for eighth. He has cut that time to 2.92 seconds per throw in 2019, but with an intended air yardage that is tied for seventh at 9.8. That’s almost a full yard of increase, and that includes a game against Carolina where he often did not feel comfortable pushing the ball deep based on what he saw.
The interesting thing about the intended air yards in 2018 is that the number decreased as the season went along not because the offensive line was bad, but because the Texans didn’t have an easy deep-ball target. After Will Fuller’s injury, the Texans had a single-game average above 8.8 air yards twice: against Philadelphia in Week 16, and against the Jets in Week 15. Seven of the eight games where Watson threw less for less than eight intended air yards per attempt came after Fuller was hurt.
Obviously, we have to see where the Kenny Stills injury changes things for the Texans, but they were at 8.3 with him mostly incapacitated in Week 4. Will Fuller is still here. I think they’ll be able to go deep if they feel up to it.
It’s almost impossible to sit here as an outsider and tell you Bill O’Brien’s intent, but I believe that the Tunsil trade was about throwing it deep more than anything, and I think they’ve mostly accomplished that.
“Laremy Tunsil is a leader who will help Houston’s young offensive linemen grow.”
Uh, I guess? I don’t know a whole lot about Laremy Tunsil the person, but what I can tell you that has come out of press conferences is
1) Bill O’Brien says he “leads by example.”
2) He’s sick of talking about his own leadership:
Rivers McCown
✔@riversmccown
https://twitter.com/riversmccown/status/1177356158283198464
Laremy Tunsil seems bored of talking about the leadership of Laremy Tunsil.
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1177356158283198464
https://twitter.com/riversmccown
I don’t know how to quantify the effect that having a good left tackle who has learned how to play in the league has on the young linemen. We haven’t really had any good stories leak out yet. There are no interesting anecdotes about him helping Tytus Howard fix Problem X. (At least none that I’ve seen.)
I leave this up to the reader to score, but I personally don’t believe there’s much of a leadership effect. Or, at least, not as much of one as people want to believe that there is.
“Laremy Tunsil will be a dominant left tackle.”
Ehhh.
Per Sports Info Solutions, Tunsil has blown three pass blocks. That 1.7 blown block percentage is very good, but about on par with what he’d done in Miami. (Public SIS numbers are through Week 3.) Tunsil leads the team in penalties with four, all of them false starts.
Pro Football Focus has him graded as their 18th-best tackle this year, with a top-10 pass protection grade and a middling run grade. That’s a ranking I think feels pretty right. While the Texans in general have run blocked better than they did in 2018, they haven’t seen a lot of improvement at left end from Tunsil. They average 1.16 adjusted line yards to left end per Football Outsiders, and 3.49 to left tackle. Those are both bottom-eight rates in the NFL.
I will say that Brandon Thorn does this stuff for a living and believes Tunsil has played better than this snapshot sells him, putting him on the short list of honorable mentions for All-Pro.
Brandon Thorn
✔@BrandonThornNFL
· 17h
OL All-Pro's through the first quarter of 2019:
LT: Ronnie Stanley
LG: Quenton Nelson
C: Jason Kelce
RG: Brandon Brooks
RT: La'el Collins
Brandon Thorn
✔@BrandonThornNFL
This isn't a slight to anyone, there are plenty of deserving mentions.
LT: Armstead, Tunsil, Tyron
LG: Marpet
C: McCoy, Hudson
RG: Martin, Scherff (missed a game), DeCastro
RT: Lane, Ramczyk, Schwartz, Brown
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1179109068239261696
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1179109068239261696
My own evaluation of Tunsil is that he’s so physically talented that you feel like, watching him, he’s capable of doing anything he wants. On some plays, he does! He’s the guy who can get out on screens and get somebody from an awkward angle. He’s able to stymie good pass rushers out of position. He’s eventually going to be one of the best tackles in the NFL.
But I don’t think he’s played up to it just yet. I’m sure some of that comes from the sudden change, and the fact that through Acts of O’Brien, he hasn’t even played next to the same left guard for three consecutive games yet. Teamwork is important for a line and the Texans have been asked to learn it on the fly.
I’ve seen solid games, and I’ve seen good games. I feel like I’m still waiting for the dominant game.
***
Through one month, you can absolutely see why the Texans were so keen to acquire Tunsil.
But, I think the most important thing going forward isn’t Tunsil, but how O’Brien and Watson combine to fix the pressure in this passing game. That’s a nagging problem that the Texans hoped would go away just by acquiring good linemen. So far, that hasn’t borne out.
https://www.riversmccown.com/2019/10/01/the-early-returns-of-the-laremy-tunsil-trade/
“Laremy Tunsil is worth it because Andrew Luck retired after he got hurt, and you can’t risk your young quarterback’s health in today’s NFL.“
This one seemed to be the most prevalent explanation for the overpay. Andrew Luck had just retired in the middle of the preseason, and the Texans were supposed to look at the beating that Luck took and realize that they couldn’t let their franchise quarterback take the same beating.
That argument falls apart in a few different ways, but the most important reason it falls apart is because study after study shows the two people who have the biggest say in a quarterback’s sack rate are the quarterback and the head coach. Just this week, Watson took six sacks, I would argue the offensive line played fairly well outside of Greg Mancz. It didn’t matter:
✔@BrandonThornNFL
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1179051273083072512
Deshaun Watson was sacked 6 times last week, 4 of which were on him. Common theme watching him is how long he holds onto the ball. This OL has been playing better than some may think these last couple of weeks.
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1179051273083072512
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1179051273083072512
All of Watson’s sack/hit numbers are essentially within the realm of what he did last season, especially if you believe the Chargers game was an outlier caused by an overly passive defense. Houston’s adjusted sack rate of 11.9% is the second-worst in the league. Last year it was 11.6%. Watson’s quarterback hit rate has gone down only slightly, and in going down slightly it has still not come close to the 2017 numbers:
via airyards.com
The real interesting thing about Watson’s hit rate is when you compare it to Andrew Luck. See, Luck floundered about with what was perceived to be a bad line for a long time too. Then they hired Frank Reich, and Reich completely torched the system that Chuck Pagano had put in place, then made some in-house adjustments. Luck’s adjusted sack rate dropped from 7.6% in 2016 to 4.1% in 2018.
Airyards did not keep Andrew Luck in their system after he retired, so I went and counted out the hit numbers manually.
Andrew Luck’s 2016 season: 8.3 quarterback hits per start
Andrew Luck’s 2018 season: 5.3 quarterback hits per start
Andrew Luck’s last 10 games + playoff games of the 2018 season: 3.9 quarterback hits per start
The problem was: It was too late. Luck had already been broken.
We’ve seen Bill O’Brien run an offense with more concepts that keep Watson doing what he was comfortable in college in 2017. That was the year that Watson had his lowest quarterback hit rate. The head coach can have a huge impact on the quarterback hits by his scheme and the areas of the field he wants to target. O’Brien’s scheme is more conducive to getting Watson hit than Watson’s college scheme was.
Tunsil has not solved this problem because no offensive lineman could. The two people who can solve it are above his pay grade, which is a weird-but-true thing you can say about a guy who will probably get $60 million in guaranteed money at some point.
“Laremy Tunsil will raise all tides along the offensive line by putting players into positions they are better equipped to play.”
I think this is the second-truest argument put out about what Tunsil has done, because all you need to do is look at what the Texans would have done without him. Matt Kalil would almost undoubtedly have led to Tytus Howard at left tackle, when Tytus Howard’s first four games have shown us uneven play at lesser positions.
That said, it hasn’t really changed a whole lot. If you look at Houston’s line as a whole, Nick Martin has been solid, but he was going to man center anyway. Zach Fulton has been … okay? But he was going to man that position anyway.
✔@riversmccown
https://twitter.com/riversmccown/status/1174045892883693568
Sack 1 -- Roderick Johnson lets the outside man go (correctly). When Watson goes to step up to avoid the rush, nobody is cleanly open. Think he was a bit late with the step up too. If he gets away with the step up, has a small window over the middle to Coutee.
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1174045892883693568
https://twitter.com/riversmccown
The player who has lost snaps as a result of trading for Tunsil is Roderick Johnson, who I would argue actually deserves to be starting at right tackle on pure merit. That’s no slam on Howard, he just was always going to be year-one project coming out of Alabama State. Howard definitely has higher upside.
But, I have to admit that Howard at left tackle would likely be a disaster, and Johnson and Howard outside probably gets you to mediocre-to-average at best. Tunsil has definitely put less pressure as a whole on the offensive line to perform, and that is an objectively great thing about the trade.
“Laremy Tunsil will open up Houston’s deep passing game.”
There are definitely a handful of plays every game where Tunsil out-and-out locks a lineman down.
✔@PatDStat
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/1176603192999718913
Laremy Tunsil with the clamps on Joey Bosa. Bosa attempts to use his left arm to start his speed rush and then Tunsil literally stops him in his tracks. Cold. #Texans
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1176603192999718913
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/1176603192999718913
I think the best argument to make here is not that Tunsil himself is doing enough to make the Texans throw deep, but that he has given O’Brien more comfortability with longer dropbacks. In 2018, Watson took the fourth-most time to make his throws, with an average of 3.01 seconds per throw. But, Watson’s intended air yards of 8.8 was tied for eighth. He has cut that time to 2.92 seconds per throw in 2019, but with an intended air yardage that is tied for seventh at 9.8. That’s almost a full yard of increase, and that includes a game against Carolina where he often did not feel comfortable pushing the ball deep based on what he saw.
The interesting thing about the intended air yards in 2018 is that the number decreased as the season went along not because the offensive line was bad, but because the Texans didn’t have an easy deep-ball target. After Will Fuller’s injury, the Texans had a single-game average above 8.8 air yards twice: against Philadelphia in Week 16, and against the Jets in Week 15. Seven of the eight games where Watson threw less for less than eight intended air yards per attempt came after Fuller was hurt.
Obviously, we have to see where the Kenny Stills injury changes things for the Texans, but they were at 8.3 with him mostly incapacitated in Week 4. Will Fuller is still here. I think they’ll be able to go deep if they feel up to it.
It’s almost impossible to sit here as an outsider and tell you Bill O’Brien’s intent, but I believe that the Tunsil trade was about throwing it deep more than anything, and I think they’ve mostly accomplished that.
“Laremy Tunsil is a leader who will help Houston’s young offensive linemen grow.”
Uh, I guess? I don’t know a whole lot about Laremy Tunsil the person, but what I can tell you that has come out of press conferences is
1) Bill O’Brien says he “leads by example.”
2) He’s sick of talking about his own leadership:
Rivers McCown
✔@riversmccown
https://twitter.com/riversmccown/status/1177356158283198464
Laremy Tunsil seems bored of talking about the leadership of Laremy Tunsil.
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1177356158283198464
https://twitter.com/riversmccown
I don’t know how to quantify the effect that having a good left tackle who has learned how to play in the league has on the young linemen. We haven’t really had any good stories leak out yet. There are no interesting anecdotes about him helping Tytus Howard fix Problem X. (At least none that I’ve seen.)
I leave this up to the reader to score, but I personally don’t believe there’s much of a leadership effect. Or, at least, not as much of one as people want to believe that there is.
“Laremy Tunsil will be a dominant left tackle.”
Ehhh.
Per Sports Info Solutions, Tunsil has blown three pass blocks. That 1.7 blown block percentage is very good, but about on par with what he’d done in Miami. (Public SIS numbers are through Week 3.) Tunsil leads the team in penalties with four, all of them false starts.
Pro Football Focus has him graded as their 18th-best tackle this year, with a top-10 pass protection grade and a middling run grade. That’s a ranking I think feels pretty right. While the Texans in general have run blocked better than they did in 2018, they haven’t seen a lot of improvement at left end from Tunsil. They average 1.16 adjusted line yards to left end per Football Outsiders, and 3.49 to left tackle. Those are both bottom-eight rates in the NFL.
I will say that Brandon Thorn does this stuff for a living and believes Tunsil has played better than this snapshot sells him, putting him on the short list of honorable mentions for All-Pro.
Brandon Thorn
✔@BrandonThornNFL
· 17h
OL All-Pro's through the first quarter of 2019:
LT: Ronnie Stanley
LG: Quenton Nelson
C: Jason Kelce
RG: Brandon Brooks
RT: La'el Collins
Brandon Thorn
✔@BrandonThornNFL
This isn't a slight to anyone, there are plenty of deserving mentions.
LT: Armstead, Tunsil, Tyron
LG: Marpet
C: McCoy, Hudson
RG: Martin, Scherff (missed a game), DeCastro
RT: Lane, Ramczyk, Schwartz, Brown
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1179109068239261696
https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1179109068239261696
My own evaluation of Tunsil is that he’s so physically talented that you feel like, watching him, he’s capable of doing anything he wants. On some plays, he does! He’s the guy who can get out on screens and get somebody from an awkward angle. He’s able to stymie good pass rushers out of position. He’s eventually going to be one of the best tackles in the NFL.
But I don’t think he’s played up to it just yet. I’m sure some of that comes from the sudden change, and the fact that through Acts of O’Brien, he hasn’t even played next to the same left guard for three consecutive games yet. Teamwork is important for a line and the Texans have been asked to learn it on the fly.
I’ve seen solid games, and I’ve seen good games. I feel like I’m still waiting for the dominant game.
***
Through one month, you can absolutely see why the Texans were so keen to acquire Tunsil.
But, I think the most important thing going forward isn’t Tunsil, but how O’Brien and Watson combine to fix the pressure in this passing game. That’s a nagging problem that the Texans hoped would go away just by acquiring good linemen. So far, that hasn’t borne out.
https://www.riversmccown.com/2019/10/01/the-early-returns-of-the-laremy-tunsil-trade/
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Ooof thats not a shining endorsement of our new "all pro" franchise LT .. furthermore if OBrien keeps banging that stupid ass "leadership" role this dude is going to bounce, just like Honey Badger. Let these guys just play without all the bullshit, those "leadership" roles tend to hammer themselves out among the guys playing. Force feeding that is counter productive.
All that I think Tunsil is good and can get better, but its still an overpay. He does not run block well, but his pass blocking is so good that it somehow evens out the grading. Im still perturbed at him jumping offsides in the endzone on 3rd down, that just cant happen EVER from a guy considered to be your "leader", but he can get better.
Imagine if he decides this team is not for him??? Big Yikes.
All that I think Tunsil is good and can get better, but its still an overpay. He does not run block well, but his pass blocking is so good that it somehow evens out the grading. Im still perturbed at him jumping offsides in the endzone on 3rd down, that just cant happen EVER from a guy considered to be your "leader", but he can get better.
Imagine if he decides this team is not for him??? Big Yikes.
I'm very happy to have Tunsil/Stills on the team.
Why? He's just going to keep Watson healthy for a longer time
If BOB changes the offense I think Watson will improve. If he doesn't I think we will see more of the hot and cold offenses we saw in the Chargers/Panthers games and the Texans aren't going to win anything with that type of inconsistency.
Agreed. Two 1st & a 2nd sounds pretty even to me.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
In the meantime, the oline just might improve.
We can only hope.
@PFF_Texans: The rest of the line may be struggling, but Laremy Tunsil has shown the potential that convinced the Texans to mortgage their future for him.
Following a rocky Week 1, Tunsil's 86.0 pass block grade over the past three weeks is 3rd among offensive tackles. https://t.co/wC5SpFpxwK
Following a rocky Week 1, Tunsil's 86.0 pass block grade over the past three weeks is 3rd among offensive tackles. https://t.co/wC5SpFpxwK
Not great but improving
Watson isn't doing them any favors.
Watson isn't doing them any favors.
They are ranked 31 in pass blocking by football outsiders
I stand by my post that Watson isn't doing them any favors.
Last week how many of those 6 sacks were because Watson held the ball/was confused?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
whats the run block grade?
Scooter
Funky
Are we allowed to include all of the hurries and hits incurred before target 1 made his break?
I don't have access but I'm guessing mediocre
Scooter
Funky
Wait, time out ... you're saying we cant throw our entire future at the (always in flux) offensive line and it magically makes everything rainbows and unicorns and superb owls? That's not what I was told ... we has a directions!
Speez
Practice Squad
For everyone claiming many of these sacks are on Watson (which isn't entirely unfair), are you also taking into account how many plays that would have almost certainly resulted in a sack DIDN'T END IN A SACK because of Watson's ridiculous athleticism? I mean, if you're going to blame him when he holds the ball too long, at least be just as likely to give him credit when be makes something out of nothing because the line didn't do its job. At the end of the day, I'd be willing to bet he avoids at least as many as he is "responsible" for.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I re-watched the whole game on the All-22, and it seems like to me the OL is getting off pretty lightly by the media. To often, the Panthers were able to generate pressure with just a 4-man rush. One guy is usually getting beat or pushed back into the pocket, causing Watson to have to shuffle. He often didn't have a clean pocket. Also, the line continues to struggle picking up stunts.
Obrien also has a weird way of dealing with blitzes.
@riversmccown: Just like the hopscotch play earlier, Tunsil again asked to go through his left guard to get to a linebacker. Backer forces play outside for no gain. https://t.co/fD6wRDmcEL
This is what I saw as well. Mancz in particular was poor
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Agreed. Mancz did not look ready for this game. At least it looks like Fulton will be back for this Sunday.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
While you are asking that question, isn't it also fair to ask how often he needlessly gets himself into a situation where he needs to use his ridiculous athleticism to avoid a sack.
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zshawn10
All Pro
8th in pass block win rate
Full Pass Block Win Rate team rankings through Week 4
(PBWR is an ESPN metric powered by data from Next Gen Stats) pic.twitter.com/Qo0Px5UYXs
— Seth Walder (@SethWalder) October 2, 2019
The rest of the line may be struggling, but Laremy Tunsil has shown the potential that convinced the Texans to mortgage their future for him.
Following a rocky Week 1, Tunsil's 86.0 pass block grade over the past three weeks is 3rd among offensive tackles. pic.twitter.com/wC5SpFpxwK
— PFF HOU Texans (@PFF_Texans) October 3, 2019
Full Pass Block Win Rate team rankings through Week 4
(PBWR is an ESPN metric powered by data from Next Gen Stats) pic.twitter.com/Qo0Px5UYXs
— Seth Walder (@SethWalder) October 2, 2019
The rest of the line may be struggling, but Laremy Tunsil has shown the potential that convinced the Texans to mortgage their future for him.
Following a rocky Week 1, Tunsil's 86.0 pass block grade over the past three weeks is 3rd among offensive tackles. pic.twitter.com/wC5SpFpxwK
— PFF HOU Texans (@PFF_Texans) October 3, 2019
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It didn't take an All-22 to see that Mancz should have been spending time in your therapy program rather than on an NFL field and shortly thereafter seeking another profession.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
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Just wait.
I've always liked & respected the in depth research & astute analysis from them boys at PFF.
this week.
Two firsts and a second is trading for an ALL PRO type player.
If Tunsil starts playing like an ALL PRO …. I'll call it even but so far , he's playing like …. Just a guy. Not bad , not great , just middling.
If that pushes Fulton to the Center spot …. that might be the best injury news we get all season.
That gets their best 5 on the field , moving Howard from RT back inside to RG and Johnson back to RT.
Mancz is out not Martin