Well thunderkyss, I guess that explains why you are a wealthy and influential patron of the arts and other worthy social causes and not an NFL HC.
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Ryan Mallett
- Thread starter Trouble
- Start date
Well thunderkyss, I guess that explains why you are a wealthy and influential patron of the arts and other worthy social causes and not an NFL HC.
I said "Had we..." as in IF we did, which we didn't. Going hard would have been signing him to a contract similar to Schaub's first deal with us or spending a 3rd or 4th round pick in the 2014 draft to get him. We didn't. Everything we've done so far to get Mallett has been on the cheap. He gave up more money, supposedly with the Jets, to sign here & we got him for $1.7M or something like that.
Winning is important... yes. OB proved that he could win with Fitzpatrick & Case Keenum. Hoyer, I think, is as "good" or better than those two. & he knows what OB is trying to do on offense.
Again, I hope Mallett is the guy, I really do. I'm just saying OB isn't married to him yet.
We'll see. If Mallett is our franchise QB (I wanted to type "next" but that didn't make sense) & we have to sign him to a $100M deal in the next two~three years, then I was right & we should have sweetened the pot this offseason to sign him to a long term sub $100M deal.
If I'm wrong, & Mallett crashes & burns & is no longer in the "sarter" conversation after 2015... then that will definitely explain why I don't have control of an NFL franchise.
I never said he was married to him.
I just doubt that O'Brien would waste his time with someone that he thought was mentally incapable of handing the position. I'm not sure how you manage to continue to argue against such a simple concept.
These so-called reports are garbage and nothing more. People throwing dirty underwear at walls to see if any of them stick.
badboy
Hall of Fame
If Mallett needs to be signed 2-3 years for $100 m then he will have earned like JJ and McNair will give him a Watt contract, in mean time he avg $3 m next two seasons, cheap whether he succeed or does not. Also if he is earning that next contract, the $3 m looks ridiculously cheap.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just fyi:
$1.75 is the dead money if he is cut this season.
He is getting paid $2.678 mil for this year, $3.5 mil next year.
Other 3rd round QBs still in the league and not on rookie deals and their 2015 cap hits:
Schaub $2 mil
Whitehurst $2.75 mil
McCoy $1.156 mil
McCown $3.916 mil
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I think those two things are mostly not mutually exclusive. Having a good qb and winning.
Im going to guess that we'll need good qb play to be able to hope to get anywhere near a Super Bowl.
I guess that's a problem with arguing a point on an internet message board... things get a bit cloudy. I'm not arguing that O'Brien would waste his time with someone that he thought was mentally incapable of handling the position.
Some of us seem to be losing patience with the way OB is going about looking for a QB. Pete Carroll wasn't "married" to Hasselbeck or Whitehurst in 2010. He wasn't "married" to Tarvaris Jackson or Whitehurst in 2011... & even though he signed Flynn to a big contract in 2012, he wasn't married to him either.
Making the play offs at 7-9 hurt.
yup
False Start
On # 69
LOLpez is just a wanna-be hack. Can't stand him, or his lap dog Wright.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Muh!!!
This team will be an eleven to twelve (11-12 Winner)... I don't care if the QB is Mallett or Hoyer.
I don't care that my much beloved AJ is gone. We'll have an "enough" offense coupled with what I think will be a good defense. A good defense??? I think we'll have a good defense (not great but good).
If it's Mallett....... FINE!! If it's Hoyer, so be it.
It'll be interesting to be sure!!
This team will be an eleven to twelve (11-12 Winner)... I don't care if the QB is Mallett or Hoyer.
I don't care that my much beloved AJ is gone. We'll have an "enough" offense coupled with what I think will be a good defense. A good defense??? I think we'll have a good defense (not great but good).
If it's Mallett....... FINE!! If it's Hoyer, so be it.
It'll be interesting to be sure!!
OK. But O'Brien doesn't have a "forever" contract, either. If his hand picked QBs don't get the job done in 2015, is he going into 2016 (year 3) with a rookie? The clock is ticking, and O'Brien needs to find a QB sooner than later.
Are there a lot of "I'm not always right" guys in media? Who's a "I'm wrong a bunch" guy? Nature of the beast, I think.
I like O'Brien a lot. He did a really good job with what he had in 2014. But what has he "built" thus far? He's riding on Kubiak's players, to this point. A big reason O'Brien was hired in the first place was his reputation as a QB coach. So if he can't pull a QB out of his ass, the Texans aren't going to win any rings. And the next QB whisperer will get the big office on Kirby.
Kinda like it worked out for Pete Carroll in Seattle right?
Ypu,
This yr is the 1st yr that BOBB will have most of his own players. Long time favorites have been let go. (AJ/Myers and I bet Foster will be next if he cant stay healthy.) It's part of BOB changing the culture of the team and getting further away from the ZBS.
BOB is trying to add more speed to the team. The Texans were a slow team under Kubiak and this showed up in ST's. If you notice the WW pickups Morris/Rolle/D.Johnson were speed type guys that contributed on ST's. It's kind of sad that a WW guy (D.Johnson) played such a significant role in the slot. BOB has made an effort to upgrade the speed at WR with the Shorts3/Washington pickups and you can tell that he's looking to add more speed at WR in the draft at WR. Interviewing/working out like likes of Dorsett/Conley/D.Smith.
Train wreck of a situation at quarterback? Isn't quarterback that the only position O'Brien has totally redone? Maybe he is pulling quarterback's out of his ass already.
Anyway, I agree with Lucky. If one of these guys doesn't work out and he goes into his third season with a rookie quarterback, it will become apparent the clock has always been be ticking on this regime. By the end of that rookie year the Texans will be halfway through a six-year plan.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
By his choice he made few changes last year when he could have made far more.
Most? We're still looking at predominantly riding with Kubiak's players on O. The "big" success of the offseason was keeping 2 Kubiak players. Let's see how the draft goes.
This "changing the culture" thing is starting to become a "Hope and Change" mantra. And we'll see about getting further away from ZBS. Devlin's foundation is ZBS. When we go out and get a power blocking roots OL coach, y'all anti-zone guys can cheer.
Morris 4.35
Rolle 4.55
McCain 4.35
Harris 4.53
Quite the speed upgrade.
Yup, all that speed and he sucked.
Give Thorn his mangos back. Shorts and Washington couldn't outrun AJ right now.
Which was completely unacceptable as a five-year plan.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Mallett will make $3.5m for 2015 if he is active for all 16 games. Currently his salary cap charge is $3,187,500.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Why is spotrac accounting for the per game roster bonus differently in 2015 than 2016?
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
His 2015 roster bonus appears to be based on 3 games active at $62,500 per game.
This looks to me like a screw-up. If you go to NFL.com, it shows Mallett as active for three games in 2015. Three is actually the number of games he played in, but I'm pretty sure he was active for all 12 games prior to missing the last 4 with the torn pec.
Since the cap amount on something like this is based upon previous year actuals, I would guess that this will be adjusted to $750,000 at some point in the near future (based on reports that his "Bonus" is based on games active).
The other offshoot of this is that to the extent the actual incentive is different than the assumed incentive (in this hopefully 16 games active instead of 12), that difference is pushed to the following years cap meaning 2016 will get the $250,000 hit along with the $1 Million hit they currently show (again - assuming 16 games active in 2015).
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Champ was pretty close. Mallett was active for 11 games in 2014, so his LTBE roster bonus for 2015 is based on 11 games. Each week beyond the 11 games he is active his cap charge will raise $62,500. Spotrac has his LTBE roster bonus set at 3 games, which is incorrect.
I notified Spotrac about it but never heard back, same with Yeatman his is incorrect. I also notified Jason at OTC, and he confirmed my information was correct. He said he hasn't had a chance to update his information.
I wrote a quick article on this topic explaining how Houston needs to account for certain players if they play 16 games this year. Houston needs to keep an additional ~$1m in space should all these players be active for 16 games in 2015.
http://texanscap.com/2015/03/21/ltbe-nltbe-how-it-affects-the-houston-texans/
Unfortunately per game roster bonus NLTBE incentive hits the cap immediately when earned. Unlike other NLTBE incentives that are included in the team adjustment for the following year. If a player does not reach his LTBE roster bonus amount, the team receives a positive adjustment the following year (Garrett Graham did not reach his LTBE incentive in 2014).
Exactly. I'd like the team to have some sense of urgency. Hopefully the players and coaches know the clock is ticking, even if the fans don't.
So what are we saying?
That we want the Texans to make a move & get Mariota?
That we wish the Texans had signed Mallett to a bigger contract?
That we wish we can go back & draft Bridgewater?
Wish we would have made the trade for Bradford?
Hope we draft Petty/Hundley @ 16?
It's not that I don't know the clock is ticking. I just think OB knows what he's doing if he can get this team to 9 wins with Fitz & Case mostly at QB. We may be looking at another 9 win season with whatever he throws out there in 2015... we may get lucky, win 10. May mess it all up & win 7...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This part of we is saying he better be right on Mallett.
Watched the Texans burn through 12 years of a HoF career with AJ. Burning 3+ years of Watt's career is unacceptable.
I think Mallett's going to succeed but I'm not digging the process.
& if he's not, we're going to run him out of town?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I mostly like OB. But this qb thing is irking me. If one of these guys turns out to be the guy, great. But let's pick one and at least invest in them being the guy. Not monetarily, but reps, confidence, ownership, continuity. Ob's had chances to take guys and pick guys and definitively put them in roles. Going into year two we still have no idea about qb.
Going into year three with no idea won't be good.
Let's pick a guy and commit.
Going into year three with no idea won't be good.
Let's pick a guy and commit.
Vance87
All Pro
It isn't that easy. David Carr. Matt Schaub. We committed to them. Didn't turn out so well, although at least we went to the playoffs with Matt before he imploded.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
No you pick a guy that you think is best for the job. Doesn't mean you give him a 10 year 500 mil contract. Every year is not a new team. That's a cliche and a saying that coaches say to refresh the mindset. It's mostly the same guys with a few additions. Tons of qb's picked to be starters every year without having to beat anyone out. Rookies and vets.
You don't go into every season with an open competition at qb. If you don't know if either one of these guys are good enough to be named starter, if they beat the other one out then so what? Fitzpatrick 'won' the job last year. One of these guys will win it next year. Who'll 'win' it after that?
It's a farce. Qb is a position you have to invest training hours into. We can't be splitting reps and expect guys to be in lock step with these qb's.
Ok we committed to Carr. He didn't work. We committed to schaub. The problem isn't the commitment. Its not being able to move on or start bringing in real contenders to be next in line when the writing is on the wall or really at all.
You see teams with hof qb's still playing well spending premium picks on qb's or at least finding a good one to develop.
This team needs a hierarchy at that position. OB is going to take his time finding his guy. Ok.
The year to do this wouldve been last year actually. I think bob missed that boat.
That would required him making a really tough decision though instead of coming up with scenarios to have the decision made for him.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Committing to schaub was the best thing for the team at the time. But as I said committing to a guy doesn't mean ignoring the possibility they may not be the guy for 10+ years.
I didn't say it's easy. If it was easy anyone could do it. But he's being paid to do a job not many people can do.
I'm a huge fan of bob but he's tripping with these qb's.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
You've got a guy who's started two games in his NFL career (and hasn't been through an off-season with his current team), a guy who the HC and OC have seen play first-hand one time since 2011, and a second year 4th round draft pick who somewhat unexpectedly saw action in one game.
There was a similar set of circumstances last season, and O'Brien was pretty quick to name Fitz the starter (although I don't think he did it before the draft, or even the first OTA's).
Now in spite of the fact there were actually a few folks who thought Keenum or even Yates might have been the better choice at the time that announcement was made, in retrospect (and heck, even at the time for most folks), it was pretty obvious who the right choice was. That's not the case this year. While it appears most of us (including me) very much want Mallett to be the guy, it's not a ridiculous notion to think that Hoyer could be the better choice, if for no other reason than how little we know about Ryan Mallett on gameday.
My guess is that while we may or may not know who the starter is going into TC, we'll know well before the end of preseason.
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If Mallett goes out and picks up where he left off in Cleveland will O'Brien be "tripping with these qb's"?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
It is not the commitment to a QB that makes him great... Just wanting a good QB doesnt make it happen... And, there is no formula to make it happen. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers... all became franchise QBs through very different paths. Apply any set of principles about how "it should be done" to the organizations with those QBs and you will see that those principles were violated almost every time.
They way I saw it, we were close with Schaub. Since 2009, we could see that this team could go pretty far with Schaub.
It didn't happen in 2009. It didn't happen in 2010. Schaub was already on year five with us when the 2011 season started, I'd think sometime after four years, you have to be open to the fact that it might not ever happen for that guy... for whatever reason.
If Kubiak saw something special in TJ Yates, that's fine & I don't have a problem with that. But when he finally decided to pull Schaub in 2013... in that San Francisco game & he wouldn't let Yates throw the ball in a game we were already losing... that's when I lost any good will I hung on to for Kubiak.
You've got to be prepared to move on, & you've got to pull the trigger when the trigger needs to be pulled.
Lets just say we have differing opinions, whether you like it or not BOB is quite different than Kubiak and the culture is changing. I bet Shorts can out run AJ and I know for a fact Shorts is quicker in and out of his breaks than AJ.
I know your undying love of all things Kubiak/AJ. But one of the biggest problems with the Texans offense the last couple of yrs is they don't have a deep threat that could stretch the field and open up the run game and TE's. In short everything was too compacted.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's really sad you can't have a single conversation without trying to bludgeon any differing opinion as Kubiak, Smith and I guess now AJ love.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
As a renowned apologist for Kubiak and Smith, I still find myself in agreement with Steel regarding the culture change O'Brien has brought. I am not sure how others don't see it...
Further, I don't understand why it is even debatable that AJ's speed and explosiveness is gone... though he was still effective due to his physicality, playmaking mindset, and experience. That being said, Cecil Shorts will be much more capable of creating space in the slot with his quickness.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I think you're missing my point. Bob isn't a fan on a message board. He has intimate knowledge of these guys.
Hell, if we're going with a qb competition we could decide that from the stands or the couch by watching practices and pre season games.
If we have this discussion we have to separate ourselves from them. They should be held to a higher standard because it's their job.
But the funny thing about those guys you listed is that at some point every one of them had an nfl coach and/or make a bold move to have them be the guy of their franchise.
It's their job to know otherwise any old guy can be a head coach and collect qb's and have competitions every year and the one that does better is your starter. Wala.
OB has had chances to pick guys based on his expertise. I know he wants his porridge just right but we're heading into year two with no idea what is going on at the pivotal position on the team and based on how it looks you can easily imagine a situation where year three holds the same thing.
How is it that we disagree and I'm bludgeoning?
Sad that you cant accept change. It's like you're looking for things to bludgeon BOB's attempt to build a winner unlike the previous regime.
Seems as though you almost would rather see BOB fail so you can say see I told you the Texans would've been better off keeping Kubiak? Hopefully you don't truly feel this way?
Bludgeon new word for the day, as in you're being a meany
I think BOB believes in Mallett. It's too bad Mallett didn't get a chance to prove that he was the future at QB. Hoyer was just an upgrade over Fitz. Cant blame BOB for upgrading any position when he can, especially the QB position.
Good thing is if Mallett doesn't doesn't prove to be the man next yr Hackenberg will be the QB for the Texans in 2016.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I am on board with Shorts or Washington in the slot. Was banging a drum for Shorts well before the Texans were rumored to be interested.
As to AJ try finding someone who says he hasn't lost some speed. But that doesn't mean he's slower than every one on the field. Some of y'all are delusional on how much has been lost. It's real simple - when you start at 4.3 and slow down to 4.5 it's appreciable and it ain't dead. In his prime Washington ran a 4.55 and at 31 somehow steelb and others think he's adding speed. And don't even go to telling me AJ is 4.6+ now. He's not running around out there at the same speed as fast LBs.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
If you get drunk, get into a fight and get your head split open and meet a cute nurse who laters ends up being your significant other does that mean it was a good plan to do what you did?
I mean ultimately it worked out for you. That's awesome.
I'm commenting on the process going on right now which I don't believe to be correct. Now he may ultimately achieve favorable results, but that doesn't mean the process was desireable.
banned1976
sleeper mode
I don't understand that thinking. First of all, Hackenberg wasn't that good last year. Another, it's no guarantee he'll be available for the Texans where they value him. The Texans don't reach for players. If they're picking 16 again in 2016 and the Texans board has him as a late first, early 2nd the Texans aren't going to take him with the 16th pick. So by the time they're picking again in the middle of the 2nd, he could be gone.
It's insane the number of times I've seen people write or say plan B for the Texans is Hackenberg, as if it's just that simple.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Because instead of just talking about the topic you attempt to quell any disagreement by calling people Kubiak or Smith lover. Your last post being a classic example - instead of responding about the fact our new DBs aren't faster or that we brought in a ZBS coach you whip out your Kubiak card. It's tired.
Don't use words you don't understand. I accept change just fine. You're so busy trying to pigeonhole people you don't pay attention. I've liked almost all the offseason moves. Moore, Wilfork and Shorts were guys I wanted them to go out and target. I like Washington too with he and Shorts upgrading Posey and Martin. I think/hope Mallett is going to be the guy and moot my criticism of how QB has been handled. But I agree with xtruroyaltyx on QB generally and particularly on his point on fully committing to one guy and living with him day and night getting every rep possible and getting him out there. OB futzed up not starting Mallett earlier last year so we'd have a much better idea about him now.
Not one thing I have ever said could be construed that way.
And I can guarantee since OB got hired you have brought up Kubiak 50+ times to each 1 I have.
No.
Was I aware the cute nurse worked there when the evening began?
You call waiting until the 6th round after counting on Drew Bledsoe, being rewarded for being atrocious, lucking into another franchise putting a stud in his prime on the market, waiting until the 3rd after backing the money truck up for Matt Flynn, and being the franchise to mistakenly ditch a stud in his prime bold moves? Aaron Rodgers was brilliant.
What looks like a tidy narrative made with cunning moves after the fact often is anything but while the story is still being spun.
You also couldn't see how people didn't see how the "right way, build incrementally for ten years" approach wasn't the new guiding light in the NFL.
Weird how so many people are so blind all the time.
I'm still behind O'Brien as a coach. I'd like him to prove is some more over the next couple of years rather than crown him with infallibility just because he has a Texans baseball cap.
I'll believe the culture is changing when we win in Indy, or we don't piss a game away like the Cowboy game, or the Steelers... or the Indy game at NRG.
Shorts may be quicker in & out of breaks than Aj, but you line the two of them next to each other, your average #2~3 corner will be praying he's not tasked with covering the big dude.
Yes, big problem ever since they let Jacoby go. Still, I think our timid QBs were the main problem with our vertical game. It kinda opened up when Mallett & Keenum took over... same team, same speed, more vertical.
Great post, I want to see more from BOB in the next few yrs too.
Ultimately figuring out the QB riddle will tell the tale on how successful the BOB regime will be. If the McNair's/Smith will keep their hands out of the cookie jar and let BOB build the team in his image. This includes the structure of contracts.
Eh... I think we know exactly what's going on at that position, just don't like what we're seeing.
I think OB was truly impressed with the core of the team & realized he could have won a lot more games had he not "wasted" time trying to teach Fitz his system.
If he didn't think we could be AFC Championship game competitive, he probably wouldn't have been so adamant about signing Hoyer. Probably look to drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd.
Or he's as loyal to Hoyer as Kubiak was to Schaub & we're going to waste the career of the bestest defensive player of our lifetimes.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Tom Brady was drafted late in the sixth round and they didnt move up to get him. Then, his second season, he only played due to a Bledsoe injury.
Drew Brees was drafted high in the second round. It took him a couple years to win the job from Flutie... Then, the Chargers drafted Rivers... Brees hung around but was eventually allowed to walk because of his shoulder.
Rivers was part of a trade due to Eli Mannings refusal to play for San Diego. It took Rivers and a bundle of other picks before San Diego would agree to a deal.
Rodgers slid late into the 1st round... And it took him three years before he emerged fro the Favre shadow.
Russell Wilson was drafted in the 3rd and battled with Matt Flynn in training camp.
Peyton was the traditional number one pick.
Who knows when the organization was truly confident and committed to each... I dont know what is actually in OBriens head regarding Mallett, Hoyer, or Savage. What I do know is that the coaches werent claiming those guys were the key to the teams future at the time they were acquired... Also, most of them were put in situations where they had to compete for their job... Or mature. Also, most of them werent granted a big contract until it was dictated by their market value ( in other words, the contract didnt represent how the coach felt about him.. It expressed what he was worth based on league rules and perceived value from the rest of the league).
I dont see what OBrien is doing/or failing to do that appears less coherent than the coaches in the situations I listed. Perhaps he is committed to Mallett and every move this off-season is predicated on the Mallett plan (including Hoyer as competition or mentoring). Perhaps he believes in Savage but knows he is a year or two away. Therefore, he grabbed two capable Qbs who know the system that he can win with and that can also effectively help Savage learn the system. Who knows?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Brees, Rivers, Rodgers and Manning were all brought in to be the man. There was no question on their starting, only when. Might as well try to argue their names are different.
Wilson is the closest analogy and even there that was two unknowns with one the clearly intended starter. His two starts turned out to be a mirage. It's a fluke not a plan.
Wilson is the closest analogy and even there that was two unknowns with one the clearly intended starter. His two starts turned out to be a mirage. It's a fluke not a plan.