Right Guard: It's On

[The Pencil Neck]

BTW, does anybody knows what Kubiak means when he says that Caldwell is going through the protocol with the league regarding his concussion.

Does that mean that he's automatically out for one game?

No. That means that he can practice this week but we won't know if he can play until they run the second test on him.

Basically, when you get a concussion, the protocol is to run the neurological tests against the player then and then a few days later. Then they look at the results of those tests, compare against his baseline, and decide whether he can play or not.

The second test could be run anywhere from Thursday to Saturday, I think.

 

[76Texan]

No. That means that he can practice this week but we won't know if he can play until they run the second test on him.

Basically, when you get a concussion, the protocol is to run the neurological tests against the player then and then a few days later. Then they look at the results of those tests, compare against his baseline, and decide whether he can play or not.

The second test could be run anywhere from Thursday to Saturday, I think.

Thanks, TPN!

Strictly curious here.
Who runs the test? The team or the league?
Is this self-policing in which case, the team just needs to submit the result of the test to the league, and that's it?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Thanks, TPN!

Strictly curious here.
Who runs the test? The team or the league?
Is this self-policing in which case, the team just needs to submit the result of the test to the league, and that's it?

I think it's the team doctors doing the test. They definitely do the first test because that's on the sideline. The second test might be done by someone else. When Kubiak was talking about it, it sounded like the day the test was done was dependent on someone else's schedule.

 

[Rey]

Not really, Dutch.

Lots of teams, including the Pats, use that extra OT near the goal-line from time to time.

Or like the Dolphins, when they started all that wild cat thing, use an extra OT quite often.

Also, we have used this formation forever, when Salaam was still with us.
Near the goal-line, sometimes we would see D. Brown, Salaam, and Winston as OTs.

Yep...We used it last year too...Newton used to come in as the extra lineman..

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I think it's the team doctors doing the test. They definitely do the first test because that's on the sideline. The second test might be done by someone else. When Kubiak was talking about it, it sounded like the day the test was done was dependent on someone else's schedule.

One reason that I feel that this is mostly show is that actually the trainers are allowed to assess (not diagnose or make final recommendations) on the field and transmit their "findings" by phone to doctors. No neurologists are involved. If they are removed from the game, they can return to play with more stringent criteria.

Re. RG III:

“He seemed fine, seemed in good spirits. He appeared to be doing well,” Cousins said.

Griffin was scheduled to see an independent neurologist Monday evening. If he passes tests administered by that physician, he would be evaluated on a treadmill and do other physical work Tuesday, Shanahan said.

Before he can receive clearance to play, Griffin must pass neurological tests administered both by team doctors and an independent neurosurgeon, and must demonstrate that he can exercise at game-level exertion without a recurrence of concussion symptoms, according to Thom Mayer, medical director of the NFL Players Association.

The neuropsychological evaluation typically includes elements that measure reaction time and shape recognition, Mayer said. Many NFL teams use the computerized ImPACT (Immediate Post-Concussion Assessment and Cognitive Testing) test, Mayer said. To pass, Griffin would have to achieve results comparable to his baseline results from previous testing. Shanahan was unsure whether the Redskins employ the computerized testing system.

According to the ImPACT Web site, the test measures “verbal and visual memory, processing speed and reaction time.” Reaction time is measured to a hundredth of a second. The test, which takes approximately 20 minutes, measures aspects of cognitive functioning that include attention span, working memory, sustained and selective attention time, non-verbal problem-solving and reaction time.

Shanahan expressed optimism that Griffin would be able to play Sunday. But the coach said it is possible for the quarterback to suffer a setback in coming days that could prevent him from playing.

link

An initial evaluation re. a possible concussion by a neurologist vs a trainer/medical staff may be very more complete with more cautious approach to removal from the game. The problem is that there can be "skip" times where symptoms can be absent or quickly leave and come back over long periods of time. The subsequent evaluation following the player being permanently pulled from a game will be performed by a neurologist plus the medical staff . Most "independent" neurologists would feel pretty uncomfortable to allow a private patient to return the next week/game, even if the patient is symptom free during that week.

There is definitely a reason why the NFL and the NFLPA do not want a board-certified neurologist on the sidelines. There would be more players forced to leave the field........and stay off the field.

 

[76Texan]

One reason that I feel that this is mostly show is that actually the trainers are allowed to assess (not diagnose or make final recommendations) on the field and transmit their "findings" by phone to doctors. No neurologists are involved. If they are removed from the game, they can return to play with more stringent criteria.

Re. RG III:
link

An initial evaluation re. a possible concussion by a neurologist vs a trainer/medical staff may be very more complete with more cautious approach to removal from the game. The problem is that there can be "skip" times where symptoms can be absent or quickly leave and come back over long periods of time. The subsequent evaluation following the player being permanently pulled from a game will be performed by a neurologist plus the medical staff . Most "independent" neurologists would feel pretty uncomfortable to allow a private patient to return the next week/game, even if the patient is symptom free during that week.

There is definitely a reason why the NFL and the NFLPA do not want a board-certified neurologist on the sidelines. There would be more players forced to leave the field........and stay off the field.

You would think the NFLPA's stance is different than that of the NFL, it isn't?

 

[76Texan]

Yep...We used it last year too...Newton used to come in as the extra lineman..

I remember mentioning it.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

You would think the NFLPA's stance is different than that of the NFL, it isn't?

No. The players want to have more "control" over if they (or want) feel they can return to the game. A neurologist will be more likely to recognize fine points that would make re-entry into a game unwise, and make decisions more on the side of caution.

 

[76Texan]

No. The players want to have more "control" over if they (or want) feel they can return to the game. A neurologist will be more likely to recognize fine points that would make re-entry into a game unwise, and make decisions more on the side of caution.

Maybe it has something to do with their pocket book?

We've known some players have certain clause in their contract on how much they get paid depends on how much they play.

I guess it's a risk they're willing to take.

I think it was Tim Green in The Dark Side of the Game mentioning a player saying he needs to put food on the table just like everybody else.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Maybe it has something to do with their pocket book?

We've known some players have certain clause in their contract on how much they get paid depends on how much they play.

I guess it's a risk they're willing to take.

I think it was Tim Green in The Dark Side of the Game mentioning a player saying he needs to put food on the table just like everybody else.

That's exactly why the NFLPA has been resistant.

 

[76Texan]

That's exactly why the NFLPA has been resistant.

Gotcha!

Thank you for the confirmation, Doc.